Dawson's Creek, S6 E15 & E16: K-Mart Overnights and Pacey Shaves

Joey and Pacey get locked overnight in a K-Mart and Dougie is back -- but for a not-so-great reason. Join us as we continue our rewatch of the Xennial TV classic, Dawson's Creek. 

We rewatched these episodes:

Season 6, Episode 15: Castaways

Season 6, Episode 16: That Was Then

Watch Dawson's Creek with us on Hulu or Amazon Prime.

Episode Topics and Mentions:

Joey Potter
Pacey Witter
Dawson Leery
Doug Witter
Jack McPhee
Jen Lindley
Audrey Liddell
Natalie Portman
Katie (host)
Brooke (host)
Corey
Emma
Professor Hetson
Hetson's daughter
Capeside, Masschusetts
Boston
Super Kmart
Walmart
Capeside High School
Community theatre auditions
Next to Normal
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat

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Transcript

Cold Open And Career Panic

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I'm washed up. I'm whatever. I'm like, sir, you're been doing this for a year. Yeah. Like, what are you talking about? Like, that's no, if anything, you've accomplished way more than anyone would have expected in this amount of time.

Season Six Setup And Castaways

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Generation in Between, our specifically Dawson's Creek Rewatch. We are on season six, which is the last season. And today we're going to talk about episode 15 and 16. So let's jump right in. 15 is called Castaways. And here's the summary. In his rush to make a hastily arranged date with a beautiful stranger, Pacey ends up locked inside a store for the night with Joey, which, by the way, was Kmart. It was Kmart. It was a super Kmart. Now, I was thinking trying to remember the time. This is right before Kmart closed completely. And they were trying to keep up with Walmart. So they started having big Kmart to compete with Super Walmarts. And they just could never match. There's couldn't, I think they started that too late. They couldn't catch up. But I loved Kmart. When I was a kid, we did not have a Walmart because Walmarts weren't everywhere at the time. We didn't either. We went to Kmart all the time. We got one when I was maybe 10. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

And I remember it was a big deal. And I don't think it was a super, it didn't have like a grocery store or anything, but it was just like a giant store, obviously. And it it was giving, have you watched the movie Where the Heart Is? Yes. Where Natalie Portman has her baby in the Walmart. Yeah. Yeah. It was giving that because remember she like grabbed like stuff from the aisles that she needed and like all the things, and that's what they were doing. Oh my god. But also I was like, I mean, I'm sh I guess maybe doors did lock like that, but you mean to tell me once you're locked inside, there's there's no emergency fire exits, y'all can go out.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

And they sure did close fast. They sure did. There were no workers sweeping, they were gone. And I had to laugh because I was like, okay, isn't this the second time Joey got locked in a thing? Or the second or third time Joey's been locked somewhere overnight? Yes. She was locked in the storeroom with that guy. Downstairs. She got locked in the ATM thing, right? Yes. It's like, why does this keep happening in their storyline? Can we not think of a few more things to do to Joey? A few more things, yeah. And why wouldn't this there was a I had a lot of questions this episode. Uh-huh. Why wouldn't he just tell Joey, I'm gonna stop and get conos? Because didn't she say to him, get her number and get it over with? Yeah. And then it was like this big deal. Yeah, but then they talk about it later. I know, but she's the one who said like she said, get her number. And so he planned to meet up with her, but I don't know. Anyway.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

Yeah, yeah. And I did think that was interesting. And I also thought that um but then later he's like, the reason our friendship works is because we don't talk about sex.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

I guess. And but then why did the cops why'd they have to call the cops? Like wouldn't the cops be like, uh maybe call a manager? Like they would call a manager to come out. The cops would not mess with that.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

You wouldn't think so. Or they'd know who to call to come let them out.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

The manager would come let them out.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Yeah. Which again, maybe they don't have access to those numbers, but you don't know. I know. And then I felt like I said, why does Joey care so much about this beard?

unknown 3:17

I know.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Well, she said she wanted to see his face.

Kmart Lock-In Plot Holes

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah, that's true, which was kind of cute. I was ready. I the whole time I was like, go ahead, shave that off.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

I mean, I'm glad you don't wear facial hair.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

I can't stand it.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Yeah, and it just wasn't him, and his face is so cute. I know. It really was covering like you know his face. I know, which is a good thing. But and and I did love how it was just an episode about them. Yeah, it was cute. That was cute, and I know it's probably setting us up. Wait, I can't remember. Yes. It's setting us up. Okay, so that's good. That makes me happy. Uh, I said that I love the whole episode was focused on them, and I did say Pacey's face is back, and I was very excited. Me too. I liked him in that Boston Bruin sweatshirt. Me in these sweaters and sweatshirts.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

But I love a sports, like my husband wears on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

All the time. But I love a jersey, I love a sweatshirt. Good thing you love them. Baseball, um, I guess they're just called baseball jerseys with the buttons down the front. So cute.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

I call everything outfits. And then my the baseball outfit. My family's like, it's a uniform, like, whatever, it's an outfit.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

It's an outfit. I mean, that's like when we're talking about sports in my house, and I'll be like, well, when's intermission? Me and halftime. Or I'll say, Oh, when's Aaron's volleyball audition? But you actually do know a lot about sports. I do. You do. I do. I do. But in my brain, it's like you're trying out for something. That's an idea audition, you know, and they'll be like, You mean try out? Or I'll be like, When's rehearsal? You mean practice? Like And then my sister is the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

She'll be like, Oh, when are you trying out for that next play? I'm like, Well, it's an audition.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

When when are your practices? When she came to see Christmas story, she's like, well, at halftime. And I was like, that's intermission.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

But it is funny because we all know what the other one's talking about, of course. But uh the store employee is really the only other character in this episode, and then slightly that security police officer. But that store employee who comes up when Pacey's looking at the condoms and is like all up in his business, and then returns at the end of the episode to find them asleep on the floor and is like giving him like the side eye, like, oh, are you his girlfriend? No, I'm not, if you must know, or whatever. I don't know, it's just funny.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

I was like, there's literally no one else in this episode but this guy. And it's always funny to me how they make it look like buying condoms is such like a production. Like, I mean, maybe it is. I haven't had to buy those in quite a long, long time. A few couple decades plus. Yeah. But I mean, is it really that I mean big of a deal?

SPEAKER_03 5:53

I mean, it shouldn't be, but I remember being like no, I mean like picking out which ones you need. Oh, I thought you meant like being embarrassed by it. I don't know. That's not a not something I know the answer to. I know. We're the wrong audience to have that. Yeah, like I don't I have no idea. But yeah, I mean, I guess it's like anything. I feel like that with with female products sometimes, even too. I get overwhelmed. Like, no, there's so many.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

You know what makes me mad about female products? What? That I fall for is the trick I fall for. I'm always like, why do they have to put our tampons in cute little pink packaging with stuff? I know, guess what? It I like it. They are cute. I like the pink and the flowers and the things, guys. I know it's so stupid. It worked. The trick worked.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

Imagine if they regularly package tampons and pads in like gray and black packaging. Used to.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yeah. And I mean, you know, you buy the all-natural kind. There's not a lot of frills there. But I bet there's still colorful packaging. Not really. I don't think they're not as much as not as much as like the the big thing.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

But it is true, you enter that aisle and it's like an explosion of flowers in pink and purple. And even the like sport ones have like the silhouettes, see, that are like neon pink. Those are the ones I just bought.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

They didn't have the kind Whatever, I don't care. They didn't have the kind I usually purchase. I was like, well, get these. Neon colors. The the packaging is like fun. And I was like, why did it get me? Why?

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Why? Why did it get me? I know. And and now, you know, we have to get all sorts of different ones now. I know. Because there's so many of us that need them. And that's another story. But yes, so it's it's a whole you have like an open. Don't do the one that's like looks like this, do the one that's got this, but they all look so much alike. And eventually I'm just like, send me a screenshot from Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Everybody said your preferred tampon.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Right. Or Walmart, so I know which one I'm looking for when I'm in this.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Of everything.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

It's like, well, something will work for someone, maybe. But yeah, yeah, that's that's really funny. So and then um I didn't say a whole lot else about this one. What about you? No, that's all I have. I mean, it was cute because it was the two of them. I did have trouble suspending disbelief, like that they would really happen. That that would really happen. I know.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

But again, they're reaching for storylines. They are, they really are. And where has everybody else been the past few episodes? Same thing for the next one. I mean, they had Dawson and Pacey, like Jen and Jack and Audrey. Yeah. No, I agree. It's been very light.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Very light. And then there was something else. Oh, the opening of the one with uh just Pacey and Joey when they're at the dinner party. I didn't quite understand. Yeah, so like his date for his work. Because he needed to network. I guess. But then

Beards Condoms And Embarrassing Aisles

SPEAKER_03 8:40

she was like so annoyed that they needed to leave. Yeah. And they had his hand on that girl's thigh or whatever. Oh, oh, that's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

And then yeah, they plan, which fine, they're grown adults. I mean, and they weren't on anyway. I don't know. Anyway, I know. Yeah. Anyway, okay, moving on. Yeah,

That Was Then And Dawson’s “Washed Up” Talk

SPEAKER_01 8:57

let's go. Episode 16 is called That Was Then. Here's the summary. As Dawson returns to Capeside High to discuss his career, Pacey is drawn back home by his father's heart attack. Now, I wrote, Dawson's already at high school to talk about his career at his age.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

I thought the same thing. I mean, I don't think it would be out of the question to have someone come back who's in the industry, but the way that they addressed it was like a lifetime thing. And even later, Dawson's talking, he's like, I'm washed up, I'm whatever. I'm like, sir, you've been doing this for a year. Yeah. Like, what are you talking about? Like, that's no, if anything, you've accomplished way more than anyone would have expected in this amount of time. But again, when you're young, sometimes a little setback or something that looks different. I mean, heck, even when you're old like me, you can be like, heck, heck, heck, heck, even when you're me, old. Um, what did I say on the last one? B-word, B word, now we've got hick. Am I interviewing to be a kindergarten teacher and I just don't know it? Look, I talked about Venmo and Arby's on the last one and both sent me notifications. Maybe someone randomly is gonna offer me a job where I'm not allowed to curse. I mean, you don't really curse in your job right now. That's actually a good point. That's a good point. I did say the S word to someone not too long ago. It was a teenager though, and as soon as I as soon as I said it, I was like, my face kind of went like that, and they were they were giggling, and I was like, I was like, I said something about someone losing their shit. And I was like, and then they just I was talking about a character. I was like, oh, I love this song because she just it's so great, and then she loses her shit, and then I was like, but it was like a 16-year-old, and so she probably wouldn't have even noticed if I hadn't made a face. That's you know what I mean. But I was like, oh, why did I say that?

SPEAKER_01 10:45

I have to apologize all the time to people who haven't come to a class with me yet or do sessions with me. I'm like, just so you know, who knows? Bad words will come out at some point in time. Yeah, I don't really filter anymore, but I work with adults, so it's you yeah, you do it's fine, it's totally fine. And you're in like private business. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

You don't work for a bigger corporation, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:07

I'm not wearing anybody's name but mine. Exactly. You get what you get, guys. That's right. You stand by it, anyways.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Uh I said that it was a cute opening scene. Oh, that was Joey and Pacey. What was it? In the she like comes by for something. I can't remember now. Oh, yeah. He was gonna go see her at the bar, which by the way, I didn't realize it was across the street. Neither did I. I was like, how does he know she's over there? And then I realized, I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. Boston's very small, apparently. I saw. Apparently so. I mean, I guess it makes sense because Emma also works there and she lives across the street. But again, no sign of no sign of Emma this episode. Or Jack, who also lives there. Right. It's fine. Uh and then yeah, she stops by and her her little sweater was cute and her hair was bad. I don't know. I was just like, well, they're so cute. They are cute. Um and then

Joey Babysits And The Humor Misfires

SPEAKER_03 12:00

I said Hudson, the professor. Oh. I was like, Joey is still helping him? Why is he still around? And at first I thought the girl, the daughter who she's like, I guess, babysitting or something. Weird. That's just some strange dynamic anyway. First I thought they were in her dorm room just because of the cut. And then I was like, that's weird, but then I realized they were at his house, which is also kind of weird if he's like your teacher, but maybe he's not anymore because she's done with that class. But still, that holds out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

And then like the girl is in high school, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Yeah, I think so. It sounded it seemed like it. Or maybe middle school. I don't know. He may have said middle school.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Maybe even still, you don't have babysitters then.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

It felt like it was overnight, though. He said something about going away. Oh, maybe it was. So that's why. Oh, okay. Okay. So that's why. Yeah, if he was just gone for like the evening or something, I don't think she would have overnight. I miss that. I'm pretty sure she was staying there all weekend.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

And that teen boy, I thought it was not funny. All this gross, like, yeah, that was not funny to me. I was like, you're being gross trying to hit on Joey while you're supposed to be dating this young girl. Like, that's not funny to me. That's just gross. Yeah. And we're supposed to be laughing. Like, oh ha ha, boys will be boys. No. Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Nope. And yeah, and I thought Joey was unusually like strict. Like almost like a gram's. Yeah, it was weird. But then the girl, what was her? I can't remember her name now.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

I don't either.

SPEAKER_03 13:25

The daughter, she was also um, I don't know what the word is, but she seemed like she needed some extra guidance. Like she needed Joey's help. But it felt like Joey was sort of overreaching as a college-age kid who's watching this teenager who's not that much younger than you. Right. She's being very maternal and strict and all the things. But then again, the guy was kind of a douchebag, and the girl does need to do her homework. And I'm sure Joey's passionate about that because she wants her, she likes her and wants her to cons succeed. But I was just kind of like, I feel like the reality of this is that a college kid would just be like, Yeah, whatever, I'll be in here like working on stuff. See you in the morning. Right. You know what I mean? But she was just like overly involved in what was going on, but maybe.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

It is weird.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Um,

The Closet Story And Teen Shenanigans

SPEAKER_03 14:10

oh, I said the boyfriend hiding in the closet. Did you ever do anything like that? Tell me. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Tell me. Yes. The funniest memory Katie's like knew that I was gonna have an answer to that. The funniest story I can think of. Yes, that happened plenty of times. But one time, when I was probably I was like a freshman in high school because I wasn't driving yet. And I my I had my friend, Katie, actually, was spending the night at my house, and we were both talking to these boys that went to a different school. Okay. They lived across town, they rode their bikes. This is how I knew I was a freshman because nobody drove yet, from from their house, which was all the way across town to my house, and hid them uh, I can't remember where we around the side of my house, like in the bushes, and they climbed in through my window, swear, and um hid in my closet until my mom went to bed. Now, granted, my mom was there, my sister was there, my sister had a friend, like my sister's in college, had a friend over visiting or whatever. How in the world? I don't I did get away with it, but this was so stupid. So like so they were in my closet for like an hour, and I didn't have like a big closet. Yeah, I was a messy teen. Oh my god. So there was like laundry in there.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Oh wow, I'm surprised that's the first time it has rung. I will turn on my do not disturb friends. Go on with your riveting story.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

And I remember like, so then uh I don't know, I'm I don't remember what I ended up telling my mom. I was like, oh, we're gonna watch TV and go to bed, or like so we had something to do the next day or something. And so I locked my door, of course, so the boys can come out. Well, then my mom came back to like she wanted to say something, like knocked on the door, and we were like, ha. And so she went to open it and it was locked. And so I think my mom thought my friend and I were like getting into something. Something who knows what? Not with boys, with each other.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

Yeah, like we're like drinking or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

So she was like, Are y'all fine? I was like, and I can't remember I made up some stupid story. I was like, Yeah, we're fine, but my sister was walking by at the time, and I remember her being like, Yeah. And so sure enough, years later. So, anyway, fact of the fact of the story is the boys stayed, but we all fell asleep, and we woke up at like six in the morning. Oh, right, and my mom was a nurse and worked, and my door, I think, wasn't locked at that point, and she worked early, and we were like, oh my god, because like the bikes were still outside. Yeah, and they ended up getting up and riding their bikes home. But years later, my sister asked her friend asked me about that. Was like, hey, do you remember that time that I think you had boys in your closet? And I was like, What?

SPEAKER_03 16:51

I was like, They were like that, it's not even like you telling her and her being like, No, oh, I knew it's her bringing that up.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like, it was years later, and it just came up. I don't remember. I think it was like at my sister's wedding or something, and they were like, remember that's right. I was like, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

But my mom never knew. That's so funny. I don't remember ever doing that. Oh, really? Uh-uh. Not that I can think of. My my room is on the second floor. Oh, that's right. And there's really no way like up there, except like literally walking through the front door, which based on where my parents' room was, I suppose I could have like I I remember like maybe, and this is like light, because I would have been upper high school or maybe college age, a boy coming in late with me when maybe they weren't supposed to. Like my parents were in bed when we came in. But like that's about the extent of it, and being like, ooh, like, shh, shh, are we gonna sh that we might get in trouble, you know? So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Well, that's hilarious. Kids out there, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't listen, I'll just tell your parents the example of but see, my mom also maybe she did, I don't know, maybe she didn't know because she was also pretty chill about like um, you know, she would like if my boyfriend came over, she would just go to bed. Like she was not trying. And my grandma would get so appalled by this. Really? And she'd be like, I can't believe you let them be there when you're not there, and all this stuff. She's like, listen, they both have cars. They can't want to go into nonsense, they're gonna get into nonsense. Yeah. So like there's only and and she's not wrong. So she's not, she's not wrong. That's okay. But anyway, yes, I did do that. And I honestly, I hadn't thought about that memory until this. I saw him pop out that closet, and I was like, oh my god, I remember when my friend Katie and I had those boys say in my house.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

I don't I don't know if I've told you this one before and I think I have a long time ago. But when I was a senior in high school, obviously I had friends at different colleges already. So a coup me and a couple of my girlfriends decided we want to go to this all-boys college where we had some friends. Oh, okay. But we pulled the whole I'm at so-and-so's house situation. Yes, which and nobody had cell phones because I didn't get a cell phone until whatever. So we we just left right and then, you know, had fun, drank, you know, slept, whatever, came back sometime the next day, and none of our parents figured it out. Yeah. But I had taken a disposable camera.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

So I get it developed. Oh cute pictures. We all look adorable. Like we got our little drinks and we're with our guy friends, but I think it had the date on the back too, like where it would stamp time stamp. Oh, yeah. So I just kind of like put them, I have this really like old desk from my like that used to be my grandparents' house, it's a nice desk. And I just threw it in a drawer. And at some point, two or three months later, I had them out, or my mom was grabbing something. She didn't usually go through my stuff, but she found them. And she was like, Did you go somewhere? Like, were you at this college at some point? Because like she recognized some of the guys and she knew what school they went to. So not very smart. No, pulled it off, but then actually didn't pull it off after all because I left the evidence just hanging there. Oh God. I know. I I think I I don't know if I got in like big trouble because by then I was almost graduated from high school and it's over and it's done. But it was, it was like a oh, I actually still got caught for this.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Oh, you almost got away with it. A lot of times like that too. So I got away with a lot and then I got busted for a lot. And then I had like a lot that I like sort of got away with, like they picked up later or whatever. And then it's like, well, what are you gonna do now? Yeah, what are you gonna do? Exactly. You know, so and my sister got in trouble for big time stuff. So for like me, I think I told y'all about that party she had with the cops came and all the crazy stuff. So my mom was tired by the time she was like, you know what, just fuck don't do the big stuff. She's like, please just just be safe and stay alive. Be safe and stay alive.

Pacey’s Family Crisis And Doug’s Pain

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Okay, speaking of families, I felt so bad for Doug this episode. Me too. Because I totally get what he's saying. He's like, Well, Pacey, you you know, I'm the one here, I'm the one that saw dad, I'm the one picking up the pieces. Well, you just fly in, and then his dad, it switched because he used to always talk about Doug being like the good one, and now he talks about Pacey. And Doug's like, Well, what the hell? I'm the one who's here, yes, doing everything, and yet I will say it wasn't Pacey's fault.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

No, it wasn't, but I just felt bad for Doug. I did too. And I did say, is Doug being fair when he's like basically making Pacey feel bad about it? Or maybe he wasn't, maybe he was just explaining.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

I mean, probably not, but sometimes when you're in an emotional state like that, you just say something. Totally. You're just like overwhelmed and tired.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

And is it Pacey who got him the nicer room, or was it Doug?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

No, I think it was Pacey.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

See, so that's kind of weird.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

He thanked Pacey to be like, oh, it was Doug. That's like if I was Doug, I wouldn't want that. Or maybe it was, I don't know. I don't know either. I thought. I can figure out when that happened. But yeah, I felt bad. But I was happy to see Doug. I know. Under these circumstances. And then I thought it was cute that Pacey, when all that was happening, wanted to go see Dawson. I know. But then I was also like, how does he know Dawson's here? Because Dawson's all over the place, but maybe because he's done with his film, he's back home.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

He didn't know Dawson was there. Oh. He said he was going to check on his mom.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

I thought he was.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

He said he was like, oh, you're here.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Okay. That makes more sense. I guess I missed that because I thought he was saying I immediately thought of you, which is still probably true. And I took that to mean that's why I came over here.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

No, he came over to the city. Okay, okay, okay, that makes more sense.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

Okay. So I thought that was cute that they kind of had that like bonding moment, you know, over the dads and like how Dawson obviously knows how he feels even if his dad, you know, didn't die, but that like urgency and emergency and just some a morbidity check. I know. You know? As if you're gonna be able to get age. Uh and then oh yeah, I said Dawson talking like his career is over. But you remember being like that and being game. I'll still be like that. I'd be like, I will never sing again. And then, you know, I mean, I don't obviously don't do it as well. Meanwhile, she's out shopping for a big giant warehouse studio. Hello. Meanwhile, we we don't have uh the credit card to put it on, but we looking anyway. I'm saying the universe will, the universe provides, and it will this time too. But yeah, it I'm just saying, I'm not as much that way now. I'm more like whatever's supposed to happen

Resilience In Art And Long Careers

SPEAKER_03 23:34

happens. And also, and I tell all my students this and all my own children this, specifically to perform you, but life in general, so that I'm always like, I need to take my own advice. That if I look at myself as a performer from the time I started, which was probably right when I could talk, till now, if I look at it from a bird's eye view, there's highs and lows. Of course. And some of those highs, I would have never gotten to if I quit at a low. Oh, true. And I wouldn't got to do some of these things that I um have loved so much, whether it's actually performing or being in the arts on the other side of performing, um, seeing my kids perform, like all those things that if at that low point I said, Oh, well, I guess I'm just not good at walking away. Facts. Which is a decision anyone can make at any point. But that's why I try to tell people, especially younger people, when they're disappointed about a role, or maybe they didn't get cast or they feel like they should be progressing more or whatever. I just say, like, this is a lifetime thing. This is a lifetime love. And you're not gonna get those like shining spotlight dream moments if you quit when you're down.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Well, and too, it changes as you get older. A hundred percent. Because life your perspective changes a little bit, and sometimes your your gauge of success changes drastically. Definitely, right? Yeah. So, like what you what we consider a win now in our mid-40s is probably very different than what we would have considered a win when we were 20. Yeah, you're probably right. So, you know what I mean? Yeah, so and I think young performers have a hard time with that because in their eyes, the only win is a lead role.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

A lead role or being on TV and that is not true, or in a commercial or whatever. Yeah, and event and sure, those are options and paths. Oh, yeah, for sure. But I mean, even like uh oh, we didn't say on this episode, but if you're listening, you probably listened to our other episodes. We're both cast in a show together, rehearsals start next week. And I when I was kind of checking boxes for if I was gonna audition or not, it wasn't, oh, there's a dream role that I have to have when I do this. There were roles that I was interested in, but it was this is a theater I've wanted to perform at because I have heard really great things about the culture. This is a woman forward show with a woman director who I would like to learn from as a performer and a director, and you know, timing and friends who are women who I knew were gonna try out. So those were the boxes. Yeah. Not like, oh, if I get this role, I'm gonna be a star and this and that. It was like all these things make me feel good. Yeah. And if I'm cast, then I get to experience these things. And that at the end of the day was like, yeah, it's worth the time commitment and it's worth the whatever to do it because of these things happening if I'm cast. Right. And that's a perspective shift from whatever age.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Girl, I had a huge perspective shift now. And when I auditioned for Joseph, like when I auditioned for this show, I said dancing ensemble. Hello, put me there. I few years ago would have been like, I don't put me in the background and let me be a mover, you know, like nope. So I think that that is that is a good point to say. Like you have to shift your perspective. And also, again, like I don't usually do back-to-back shows, but you know, YOLO, and you don't have a lot well, you you don't have a lot of opportunities, and I love to dance, but I am 45 years old and just got back into it a couple years ago. I have a small window of just physically, how long can I do this to my body for performing? I don't know. I could, I could have 20 more years, yeah, but maybe not.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

Right. And because of performing, even volunteer performing, which is essentially what we do, we've done paid performing work, but mostly the work we do is is volunteer, is not a guarantee. So you can say to yourself, Oh, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna try for that one that's in a couple months. Well, you might not get gassed. So if all the other conditions are right, even if not all of them are right, let's say three of the five are right, but you know you're tired or you're busy or you just did a show, but there you see yourself there, then you gotta go for it. I know. And that's every age. That's every age.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

But certainly now. For sure. Yeah, and then you just figure it out because there's never a perfect time to do something extra in your life. But, and when I say extra, I'm not saying that it's not important. I'm actually trying to say the opposite. Oh, yeah. That those extras are important, you know? And for me, um I've actually got stuff I'm trying, I'm gonna put a little reel together, I think, because you know, me and my journaling. Um don't worry, journal moment, legacy list, TM. Um lately, my mind has been wandering to performing when I'm like journaling or thinking. I mean, I'm always thinking about it on some level, whether it's my studio and other people. It's my job, it's it's my living, it's all the things, but specifically for myself. And I think that's because, and I've mentioned this to you, when I finished the role I did in January in Next to Normal, I felt so full.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah, because that was something you've been wanting to do.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

And it was hard work, and I gave it all I had, and I was really proud of it as a show as a whole, because I was also the producer of the show, but also of my contribution to it, that it really carried me. Sure. And I also didn't have time to do other stuff, but still, and it started to wear off a little. I've still all those things, but I I wasn't getting the itch. Like when auditions were coming up, I was like, bleh, like, nope, I'm good. Nothing will ever be as good a role as as like I already have. And I worked hard and I'm proud of it, and I'm just gonna keep like basking in that a little bit longer. And then it started, I started to feel it a little. And so, like I said, all those conditions came up for this musical that I was like, this is the one then, if I'm cast, that I feel is a good step in the right direction because of all these reasons. And not that I'm not saying I'll never do ensemble, you know, you know what I mean. Of course I will, but for where I feel now, like what would be worth my path in the journey. So, all that to say, because those feelings have been coming back, I've been journaling more about it. So I grabbed a bunch of pictures from 10 roles I've done, and I'm gonna do like a real, like 10 lessons from 10 roles and just explain, like, I've been thinking specifically about my performing lately and where like what it's taught me and all the things. And so I'll

Auditions Casting And Honest Feedback

SPEAKER_03 30:10

put that up soon. Huge. But it's been like a little deep dive back, and I started that before the auditions. So going in, I think it made me I don't know, like grounded.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

I wasn't really nervous. I mean, it's a wonderful environment. She also loves auditioning, but by the way, guys. There's also that. She's one of those people. You know, we were talking about Corey and I were talking about that. She's like, Who are the crazy people who like auditioning? And I said, Katie is one of those crazy people. And she's like, What do you mean? And I she loves it. She will audition for things just to audition. And she's like, That is lunacy. Yeah, I know. I know crazy. Not me. Yeah, hate auditions, hate them.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Yeah, I don't know. I love auditions. And even this one, the director was like, You don't have to come back tomorrow unless you want to. I was like, I'm coming. I didn't do much else the second night, but I was I just like being there. A part of it is learning, learning from others, and I'm able to compartmentalize enough now that I can watch what the director's doing, watch the music director's doing, because I t I glean knowledge from that and compartmentalize that from oh, it's my turn to perform now. And I don't know. I mean, I I was I was a little nervous when I sang, but I was like, oh, I did pretty good. It didn't bother me.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

I hate audition.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

I don't think it was as well as I did here at the studio, but rarely is an audition as well as when you're doing it by yourself. Never is never never. So the fact that I was like, it was good was like I liked I was fine with that.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Yeah. Well sometimes we'll come back to the second night of audition just to be nosy.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

I was also doing that and I was like, oh, who's gonna sing the song better than me? All these people, because everyone's talented. But um, yeah, no, I and I do just I I enjoy what I I as a director and producer now, I love the audition part. I love watching everyone audition. The casting's harder because I especially when I see someone who has worked so hard, and in that case, and sometimes these are kids, sometimes these are adults, I can't give them the thing that they wanted and it's hard. And so I've had to, I mean, it's been good for me as a people pleaser. It's been great because I've been able to sort of reframe that too and say, but wait a second, right? Them hearing this from me or not getting the thing they asked for is what this business is. So now I can provide a safe, warm, caring environment to experience that in. And if they don't, if they don't want to join, there's never hard feeling. Like if it's not acceptable to them, there's never hard feelings. That's fine with me. Um, but I used, I mean, even after casting now, even our kids stuff, I'll be sad. I mean, you see me for a day or two, I will be like down because I'm like, I'm the reason, or my company, even if I'm not the director, is the reason some people are sad today.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Well, it doesn't help the fact when you have kids, the parents message you. Yeah, it doesn't help. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like the parents would be like, why? And this and that, especially parents who aren't performers because they don't get it.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

Yeah. I will say, I honestly don't mind that conversation anymore.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Because either it really isn't something specific, and I can just tell the truth, which is it's because this person and this person were a better fit together for the role, or this person was a better fit, which is 90% of the time what it is. Yeah, casting is is definitely lots of things go into that equation. And then occasionally I'm able to kind of have a more difficult conversation if I need to, depending on the age. It could be behavior-based, depending, or it could be, you know, mom, dad, grandma, whoever you weren't in the audition, and they weren't prepared.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

Or they weren't whatever. And I'm sorry to tell you this, but this is what happened, and it hurt them this time. So I think, and and being able to again do that in a kind way. That's like, but look, we're gonna work on it and in c in the class that they're in, or our private lesson, or I'm gonna talk to their teacher and we're gonna get this fixed for next time. Being able to provide that, I'm like, that's actually a service. Yeah. Well, because And that's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Well, we don't get that everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

We don't get that. We don't get feedback after our sessions. We have no idea why. And I've just kind of come to the point as an adult performer, like feedback-wise, like I just don't ask because most of the time I think it either they they won't tell me the truth because they're being kind if there was something that they really didn't like, or they will just say, You just weren't a fit. I'm not gonna waste your time and some having you tell me that. Sometimes they're just most times. Yeah, it's just most times it is not personal.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Yeah, but anyway, sometimes it is. Like you'd be a problem. People know you're a problem. Yeah, but then sometimes you'd be a problem and you get cast anyway.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

Uh-oh. Who said that? Just kidding. Um, but that's but that's also the real world, too. That is also I try and I I try very hard to make sure that doesn't happen in our youth stuff. Oh, well, sure. But when they get out there into the real world, that stuff does happen. That's kind of old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not not not kiddos. But awesome.

Wrap-Up And How Many Episodes Left

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Well, okay. I think we've talked more about our philosophy of performers than Dawson, but that's okay. That's why you gotta listen to these guys. You're getting sage life advice and not the stomach and not from the team of Dawson's Creek writers. From us. From us. Who do so many things? We are old and wise. I mean I will give us that. Are we wise? I'm guessing we're older than the writers were for Dawson's Creek, so yes. Actually, they probably were about You think they're probably age, probably. Probably. Around But either way. Well, thanks for listening. Oh, I wrote it down. There are 24 episodes, so we have eight more. Because we did 15 and 16, so a couple more weeks. Yeah. So thanks for sticking with us for our rewatch of Dawson's Creek, and we will see you next time here on Generation in Between. Bye guys. Bye. Oh, you know what I was like.