Dawson's Creek S5, E13 & E14: Boston Filmmaking and Audrey/Pacey Kiss

This particular recording day felt heavy, as we had just learned of the death of James Van Der Beek. Listen in to our James Van Der Beek tribute episode that expands on all the feels.

In our rewatch, we saw Dawson start film school in "Something Wilder" in Boston as Jen got in trouble with her producer for losing her on-air "edge." Jack’s fraternity story starts to turn. 

The next episode, "Guerrilla Filmmaking", shows Dawson trying to direct someone else's film and a Pacey and Audrey love connection. 

Join us for all of our Dawson's Creek rewatch episodes. We're watching Season 5 on Hulu and Amazon Prime. 

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Transcript

Shock News And Tribute Plans

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello everyone and welcome back to our Dawson's Creek Rewatch here on Generation in Between, where we are watching the Zenil Classic Show. Dawson's Creek, we are on season five. Um, episode 13 and 14, we're gonna chat about today, but we are gonna take a few minutes to talk about it. Is February 11th, the day we are recording, and we heard the news just hours ago that James Vanderbeek passed away this morning, and it just hit us like a punch to the gut.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Oh my gosh, it's so upsetting.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

We got so many messages from other people who are also just like, I mean, he's so young and he's been so sick, but also doing okay. I mean, relatively.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Relatively, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Um, so we're gonna do a tribute episode to him. We had talked if we were texting today about maybe doing one tonight about him, and but we think that it's better. He deserves time for a whole episode where we have research and facts and information instead of just us sitting here crying and talking about how much he means to us and how important he was to our coming of age. Um, so stay tuned for that. That's gonna happen really soon. We will have a tribute episode to him, especially because we've been spending so much, it feels like we've been spending so much time with him. It's not him, it was his character, but we've been spending so much time with Dawson's Creek when he when he was young like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Like there's the memories of of when we watched it before, which we'll talk about, yeah, like the first time we saw this episode or whatever, but we've been re-watching for about a year and a half.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

So every week at at one point it was at least one episode now, it's at least two episodes, and you are with him in those moments, and um, it's just really this is really a tough one to swallow. Like well, also, like I obviously we knew he had cancer, but I didn't know he'd taken like a turn for the worst. I don't think really anyone did. Yeah, I think they were being pretty private about it, and that's fine, but I was surprised, even though he's sick. I was surprised to hear the news. Yeah, like you said, gut punch for sure. And um, I saw the woman who plays his mom, who plays Gail. Her name is escaping me at the moment, but right before you got here on my Instagram was a post from her, and it was like a picture of her and him recently, and then a picture of her and him from like 1997 or something. And obviously they both looked super young, yeah, and she basically just was just raving about him and then saying, you know, for everyone hurting and wanting answers, please respect like the family's process at this time, and like just know that you know the family just needs time to process.

Remembering James And Fandom

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, and I mean his wife had a post, which is what we saw. She was the one who posted it. And I mean, but I think he did he really did, he was one of those celebrities that did value his fandom, and like I think honestly, all the Dawsons Creek people really value their fans. I agree, like the dad, even the guy who plays Mitch, still to this day stops and chats and takes pictures and does Comic Cons, and so does Ker Smith. Like he's at Comic-Cons all the time, and you know, and busy Phillip, it like all of them. So, anyway, we're we had to say that rest in peace. Thoughts and prayers are well, I I don't pray, but thoughts and love are with the family as they go through all this. And as for like our generation, like I think the when when somebody that is your age dies, it hits it does, even if you don't know them in real life, but you've watched them, it hits so different.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Yeah, because you've seen, like I said, when we re-watch these Dawsons, like we were the age he is roughly, yeah in those shows, and we are the age we are now, right? So then when it's like the age we are now, and then he died, obviously it was due to an illness, but still it really does hit. And I was thinking a friend of mine, um, and I, some college friends, and I have a group chat, and someone put it in our group chat, and we were talking about it, and my friend in there, Lori, she reminded all of us from Varsity Blues, there's like three actors now from that movie that are gone.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

I know.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Like I know Paul Walker, James Vanderbeek, and I can't his name's Escaping Me, but the one that played Billy Bob. Yeah, and and they were all so young, and we were that age when that movie came out, and so I think it's just and knowing he's a parent and oh yeah, small kids so many, yeah, and knowing how much just everyone um really everyone said what a wonderful person he was and everything. It's just it's just hard.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

It's getting hard, and it's just and I think too, it's like a mortality check because he had cancer. I mean, that's what ended up taking hit taking his life, you know, the illness or whatever maybe there was an infection, or I don't know, they haven't said but you know, it and he was a healthy guy, yeah, you know, and so it's a scary thing, it's a mortality, not from a selfish point of view, but it does make you think like at our age, like he was young and then now he's gone. Like that's just it's just I don't know. I think that's part of why it it hits so hard, right? Because it makes you think like that.

Mortality, Generational Grief

SPEAKER_01 5:44

It's hard not to think of your own self in the in that oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And your own and I'm sure we all have people we know who have similar things have happened too. They died too young or for whatever reason, and so it's just a very stark reminder for sure. And so it's kind of I don't know if weird's the right word, but a little interesting to kind of be business as usual, right? Like we're here with our episodes, but I mean, these the show I even said to like one of my kids when we picked her up from school today, I was I was down about it. Yeah, he was like, What's wrong with you? And I was like, Dawson from Dawson's Creek. Yeah, although there was a bit of a funny moment after that. Brent's like, wait, he was Dawson, and I was like, Yes. He's like, No, I knew he was on the show. I thought Dawson was the girl. I'm like, Oh my god. And he's like, Oh, I don't know. And I was like, get out of here, get out. You're not gonna be like, Even my child was like Dawson's from Dawson's Creek.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

She's like, Oh, that guy, like well, Cooper texted me when I was on my way to class. He's gorgeous track mate, and he's like, Did you know James Vanderbeek died? I was like, Yes, Miss Katie and I are sad.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Like, we are yes, I know. No, I mean Patrick was like, I'm so sorry, you guys.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

I know so many people messaged us collectively and then individually. Like, um, but I don't know, it's it's it's strange because I will say something that I think um retro things are so popular right now. A lot of people are re-watching Dawson's Creek, and so I think a new generation, for instance, Patrick has a younger sister who's Caden Caden's age, she's 19. She started re-watching Dawson's Creek because of our podcast. Oh wow, yeah, and um so I think that it's gonna hit that generation too, because they're you know, you know, when retro stuff is cool or whatever, absolutely, and they knew who he was, yep, and it's just I don't know. I I I do think the one thing positive is that the awareness it's like when Katie Couric had a colonoscopy on TV, it raised awareness for colon cancer. So I'm hoping that you know his his advocacy and his last bit of life will help others in a positive way, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

I agree. He definitely um as much as he could use the spotlight to spotlight that, but still be with his family and enjoying life to the fullest in that moment. So we will talk more about that later.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Yeah, we will have a whole episode where we talk about him and his life and all of that because we just didn't feel like rushing it was probably the best idea at all.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Nope. So if you're sad too, we're holding space for you because it's all the things we just said. Yeah, sad on its own, a mortality check, all the things. So let's uh let's jump into the episode.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

So now we're gonna talk about something completely different than that. We're gonna talk about the episodes. Let's go. First one, season five, episode 13 is called Something Wilder. Um, as Dawson starts film school, Jen's newfound happiness jeopardizes jeopardizes her radio show. Joey finds herself with two dinner dates and a difficult choice to make.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Uh-huh. All those things. I knew, and this is a little bit in, but I knew as soon as Jen's like, oh, my producer wants to talk to me before the show. I was like, oh girls, yeah, you walking into a bad meeting. Uh-huh. Why else would they want to see you before your show? Right. But it was cute for Dawson's first day of school when Jen bought him all that stuff. Well, because he was going to film school that day. Was that the intro episode?

SPEAKER_00 9:29

I just watched this today, guys.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Or was that the next one? No, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

It she gives him like the thing and the thing. That's right, that's right. I did write school. I I did think maybe I was wrong. I was like, Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_00 9:41

No, no, no, you're right, you're right. I was like, I just watched this today. Why am I confused? You're right. I did think it was funny though. I said Jen calling Dawson baby just seems weird.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

And then he starts calling her sweetheart.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

I know.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Like a bunch of times. It was weird. Like on the movie set later, he's like, sweetheart, I'll be there. Or what I was like, well, are they married for 50 years all of a sudden? I don't know. That's just I don't, it's weird. Yeah. It was kind of weird. I didn't like that either.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

I'm not a pet names person. We've talked about this before. It's just yeah, it's irritating to me.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Yeah. I I call my husband by his full name. Same. Like Brant.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Brant Parsons.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

I have Brant Parsons.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

I just yeah, I don't like pet names.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

I've never done that.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

I guess I have them for my kids.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Well, yeah, but that's different.

Why The Loss Hits So Hard

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Because they're little and cute. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

I had a boyfriend who used to call me bae all the time, and I hated it.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Oh, I don't like that. Right? No, I don't like that.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

And he just did it, and I just I did not like that. That's funny. I did not think about that till just now. I don't know if I've ever had a boyfriend or significant other have a it was my first like big boyfriend in high school.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Bay. I hated it. No, I don't like it either. Yeah, it's weird, right? I don't like it. Um, I mean, it's not weird if you like that, but I'm not a pet pet name. Like, I'm thinking of someone calling you that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

You're like, you're not.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Danny is not a bae. I mean, Danny specifically. It's not a fit.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

What if one day I came in here and be like, I have a newfound revelation and that I love pet names, and now I'm gonna call Troy boo-boo all the time.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

You we should both separately just start filming name for our husbands, and just this is start doing it out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Like a candid camera thing, and we should video and see what their faces do. That's good. Hey boo-boo. Troy would be like, What?

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Are you talking to the cat? What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 11:37

What are you talking about? Oh, I have so many pet names for my cat.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. My dogs too. Of course. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Hello.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

I've called I call my kids baby a decent amount. All of them. I'm like, are you alright, baby? I do. Oh, yeah. I don't do that. I don't know why. It just comes out.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

I was like, oh, come over here, baby. Actually, maybe I don't. I just don't have pet names. I mean, we have shortened names. Well, Caden is always Caden. He is just not ever anything else. Caden. Cooper, we call Coop. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Oh, that's cute.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

I mean, that's but everybody does. Like a lot of people will just say Coop. I don't know. They just do. But Caden is never just K. He's always Caden.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Like always. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

K-Dog. His friends used to call him K Dog, which is weird. I don't know. K-Dog.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

I love it. We we call my son Fairbear, which he hate hated and now doesn't care anymore. London, we call Lulu. Amelia's Emmy. Aaron is Air Bear, so we have a Fairbear and an Air Bear. But then I just call her Air B. I just go Air B. And Rant's like, you know, that takes no shorter amount of time. We're saying Airbnb. But I'm like, come on, Air B. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

No.

Holding Space And Moving Forward

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Which she really hates. I'll just say herb. The herb. Oh my god. She's just like, you're not, you're now you're abbreviating Air B and then Tegan is T T.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Oh, that's cute. Can we call her T or TT? Well, you know, my sister is Tata, which is funny because you know, Tata's are boobs. But it's funny. Um, my kids call her that because I said that when I was a kid. I couldn't say the R in Tara. Oh, Tata. So because so that's what she wanted to be called when I had kids.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Oh, that's so cute.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

So, anyways, I like that though.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

La la la. I don't do pet names. Okay, no pet names, so it was weird. Just call me by my name, guys. Um, I said, is this boyfriend? Uh I guess boyfriend, he's not really a boyfriend of Joey's yet. Ellie the guy. Is he just another Henry?

SPEAKER_00 13:29

I said so much like Henry. This guy is not even that likable or even believable that Joey's. He's so just like he's just boy. I don't get it. Whatever.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

I don't get Ellie.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Move on. Move on from him.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

I said Jen in those boots when she walks through the fraternity house. What was that? That was a weird moment. That was a weird moment. But also, that does happen. It does happen. So this was an interesting episode because we start to see Jack have a little bit of like animosity towards the frat.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Well, I said, Well, I said the writers kind of wanted it, it's almost like they wanted to turn directions.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Like they wanted to have like this positive experience and then they wanted to just change it.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

It did feel like that.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

It did feel and it felt like that with the fucking professor too. Cause because the whole, wait, you're not married, but you said you were. And he's like, Oh, I just say that sometimes. I was like, that's horrible writing. Horrible writing. Because he does say that originally.

Episode 13 Setup: Something Wilder

SPEAKER_01 14:27

He's like, Yeah, my wife and my kids, they they like me to read to them, or whatever. Or whatever. He said it more than that. And then all of a sudden he's just like, Oh no, I don't.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

It's like and then like, so he just lied about that. That's weird and bad writing. They should have just said that he got divorced.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

We want them to be able to have a relationship. So now he has to be single and not divorced, just single. Just young.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Not divorced, doesn't have a kid. Like it's and they changed it just so he could have a trust with Joey. Yeah. And then they had to have something with Jack. So they were like, well, let's let's change his mind about the fraternity. So that was just weird. Something that wasn't weird and was fun was Audrey on her little Nokia phone that we all had.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

So good. All had the Nokia.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

We all had the Nokia.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

I liked her booty call questions. Oh I know. When she's calling and she's like, why don't we say I'm gonna have booty if we're having a booty call? Valid. And Dunn's like, you don't have to say your full name when you call Audrey. This is supposed to be anonymous. She's like, why? I have nothing to add. I know she was so funny. She was so funny. Calling into the show. Um oh yeah, I already said the thing about the producer and how they said she lost her edge because she was too happy. Um, and then I said, Ooh, Joey lying about the date when she tells Elliot she's not feeling good.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

We saw that twice in the things we watched today.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

I know.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Corey did that too. Yeah. It's a penga. Okay. Don't lie if you don't want to go on a date. Just don't lie.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Just don't lie ever. Just be on it. You know how you know how much better life is when you just don't lie? It's better.

unknown 16:04

Way better.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Because listen, even if you think you get away with a lie, you don't really. Because it will come back. It it always comes back. Always. You never be staying away with lies. Listen. And it's too hard to lie. Yeah, it takes too much too much energy. And if you happen to be lying, uh, something's probably wrong.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

So well, and like if if you're lying because you don't want to go on that date, you should just tell them. Be honest. Don't say it in a nice way. You don't have to be a jerk about it. But like, yeah, you know. I don't know. Oh, philosophical question as it relates to gender. Are happy people boring? Because she's saying she's happy, so she's boring now.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

I don't know if happy is the right word. Okay. I think sometimes I was thinking about that. When you're happily married, are you boring? I think sometimes you just get like uh settled. Yeah, settled is a good word. So you're not I don't think that you're boring, but I don't know. I was just thinking, well, I've never been all the way happy.

Jen’s Radio Arc And “Too Happy”

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Is anybody ever all the way happy though? I mean, that's a good point. I think maybe it's like contented, settled, like like if you're ever at a point in your life, and I don't think anyone ever is in all areas, but in this example, a relationship where you're not striving for more. Yeah, you're just contented with the way things are good, and that happens at jobs, and that happens in friendships, and that happens with everything. So yeah, is that boring, or is that just contented and just a phase of life?

SPEAKER_00 17:52

I think I'm probably the wrong person to ask that too.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Why do you say that? I don't know. I think you're very contented. No, you're the opposite.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Well, I don't want to say I've never been happy, but I think I think I think people with anxiety generally like you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 18:15

I like to call it ambition.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

That's what I call my anxiety. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

That's not what mine is.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

I've rebranded it for myself.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Okay. Well, everybody's anxiety presents different. Yes. So yours can present as ambition.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

I'm gonna do more things and more things after that, and more things. Ah, that's what you need.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

That's also called um what is that word where you're not wanting to deal with the reality of things? Escapism. Oh, there it is. It's that too. I mean, I do that too.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

But mostly that.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Mine's mostly sarcasm, is my handle. I don't know. I don't know if it makes you boring. I do think I think that when you are content in a relationship, you can you can get kind of settled, and so it's not as like she doesn't have all the drama and whatever. But like, I mean, I don't think we're boring people and we don't have any relationship drama.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

That's true. That's true. I mean, could we I mean I guess we have a podcast twice a week, or we do two episodes a week, but um could we do the kind of show she's doing with like these like edgy relationship things?

SPEAKER_00 19:29

No, we absolutely could because we have wisdom from the other side of things, that's true, but that's different. When I was in college, like could we have a fun college show? No, no, we could not. No, okay, but I mean if it was people asking for advice from old married ladies, absolutely market for that.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Let us know, guys.

Joey’s Dates And Elliott Debate

SPEAKER_00 19:55

I mean, actually, I did have a I did have a friend, a single friend, say ask um me and another I won't throw I won't I'm not gonna say their names because they might not want to know. A single friend who's been single for a long time, she has been single for a while, and she looked at me and another friend of ours who've been in a marriage for a really long time and she said Oh god, she said, I've gotta ask y'all this. How do you and she's like, you don't have to answer. She said, but how do you keep sex not boring after you've been with somebody for that long and we both started laughing? Yeah, and we we both had different answers, and I'm like, Well, I mean, the fact is it does get boring, you have to constantly think of new things, you know. But it was I won't say my friend the other friend's answer because it was that's her business, great, yeah, but it was funny because I do think because it you do have to do things not just in the bedroom, I mean in a relationship to make it not boring general in relationships because it's real easy to become boring, sure, if you were in a good relationship.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah, I mean, at this point, like I don't even know that boring's bad. Like I'm gonna do it. Katie's like, I love boring. I am good. Not that's Trace, Trace like that too. He's like, I'm cool, I'm content, I'm going outside the box. I am good with just like maintaining the calm, the the the minimum.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Katie says Katie says boring. I I'm not good with boring. I gotta keep I gotta keep life. I like I'm not talking about my sex life. Y'all don't need to know about that life, all right? Up for me. Um well and my husband, he's part of it too. Oh mine. Uh but anyway, I just mean life. I gotta, I have to do it's like you know how sometimes people be like, I'm gonna eat the same thing for all my meals. Like, you know, people do meal prep and they'll do like breakfast, lunch, dinner for like what I could never do that. I can do one meal the same for a while.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Okay, like I can do like

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Same breakfast.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

For a while, but then I gotta change it up. I can't I can't. I can't, I can't, I can't. But but that's a personality thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

I think that's a personality thing, and I don't think that's contingent on relationships or whatever. No, I just meant like in general, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

But no, anyway, so I don't I don't think so, is my answer to your question. You don't think happy people are boring? I don't think so. Okay. Because think about it, like happy people can be boring just as well as unhappy people can be boring. I know plenty of unhappy people who are boring as hell.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Like, I cannot, I please don't ask me to talk to them because they be complainy people. That's true. That's true. And they're boring, and I don't want to do that. It's probably we probably know some of the same people.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Probably.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Yes. All right. Well, moving on, uh, the only other thing I said about this episode is I'm so annoyed with this professor story. I know. Me too. I mean, he's good looking, but it's not. You don't think he is?

SPEAKER_00 23:00

No.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Didn't I call him charismatic once? And you're like, no, he's not. Yeah, no. Um, like this whole college, and she can't like what? And I don't like the Elliott guy either. There's no one else for Joey in the whole city of Boston.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

I wrote in the notes for the next episode. What did I say? Like, why is there always a teacher slash older person with a younger person in all these fucking TV shows?

SPEAKER_01 23:26

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

It like all you're right, all the people in Boston.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Yeah. All the young, good-looking, smart people.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Hello.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

It does, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

No, I don't like it. All right. All right, moving on. Season five, episode 14, is called Gorilla Filmmaking. As Dawson struggles to direct a classmate script, Joey confronts her own feelings about Professor Wilder. And I said, of course, they gotta bring Charlie back because hello, Chad Michael Murray.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

You have to. Because he's hot. He's he's hot. And I did think it fit in the plot. Like, like Jen was a little too like if she's supposedly happy with Dawson now, she was a little too fired up about him and annoyed with him. But it was funny. It was funny. Um, I said so cute they are doing a film together. Who am I talking about? Jen and Dawson. Oh, yeah, probably, because she's helping with it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

I think the um the director guy is he's a funny character.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

He is funny. And when he's like, oh, by the way, I'm gonna be the lead, and Dawson's like, oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

And he's bad and it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

When you kind of put like that director guy next to um the other Charlie, yeah, it's like, yeah, no, Charlie's the one that we need for this part. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

And I was waiting, I I remembered that Pacey and Audrey got together, so I was glad it was finally happening.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yeah, I I asked there, I said, How do we feel about that? I think it's good. I think it's good too. I liked it. But here's the thing Joey is a hundred percent completely fine right away with that.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

I know.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

But remember the Dawson stuff?

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Is it because she likes Professor Wilder, or is it just literally she cares about Pacey?

SPEAKER_00 25:04

I think it's just because it's Dawson. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

I mean, I'm glad she doesn't care about it. I know, but I was like, okay, that's different.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Also, something else I remembered was the fraternity guy situation. I the room. I didn't remember it at all. I remembered it and I didn't say anything last week because I didn't want you to know until it happened. I remembered it whenever the guy gave up his room. Okay. I was like, oh, right. This is coming. I remember how this ends, like how the fraternity adventure ends. And I was like, but I I couldn't remember if they actually kissed or not. But then I was like, it's just heartbreaking because I feel like that was probably true for a lot of kids.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Yes.

Wilder’s Retcon And Writing Gripe

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Not like that exact situation. I just mean being closeted and trying so hard to to to fight against yourself. And then he even tells Jack, you're the kind of guy I want to be, but he can't do it. He can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

And then at the end, Jack says to him, Yeah, he's like, I feel sorry for it. You have to figure out. And I and I genuinely hope you do. Yeah. Kind of like saying, like, I'm gonna leave you with this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

And then it's fucked up because his fraternity brothers were like, He said you tried to kiss him, and he's like, Y'all already believe him. Great, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Yeah, I know. I didn't love that because I liked that Jack had kind of found his people.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Well, and I liked that they weren't being homophobic, you know. Right. I like that that was part of the storyline to kind of buck against like it can be this way. I yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

But yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

But I mean, but then reality is that's the other side. I mean, is it really? I mean, now nowadays I think it's much better. I actually, when we got to this episode to the episodes where Jack Pledge, Caden was home and I asked him, I said, Do you have anybody in your fraternity that's you know, LGBTQ? And he's like, Oh yeah. And I said, Oh, really? He's like, Oh yeah, we have a few, and they are very small. And I said, Great, yeah, awesome. As it should be, like that should I shouldn't even people should not even have to have an idea, like you should just be like right, like do you fit in because of other interests and all that with the people in the fraternity? Great, but it opened up a good conversation with my husband because because he was in a Greek life when I was back in the 90s, and he's like, Well, times have changed then because when he was in a fraternity, that would not have been yeah, well, I mean, I guess that's good then.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

That part, so hopefully the changing part.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Well, but then it's then I then other shit happens, and it's like our times fucking changing. Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Maybe this particular thing appears to be better in this case, but in one situation, but then all these others.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

I know it's just hard anyway. I just it was I forgot about it and I was like, and I remembered it last time, and I was like, I'm not gonna say anything because I don't know if she remembers.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

When they went to play the games, as soon as they laid on the floor, I was like, oh, uh-oh. What's gonna happen here? But then that sucked about the honestly. When that happened, I thought, oh, well, maybe this will be a relationship.

Audrey, Nokia, And Comic Relief

SPEAKER_00 28:14

And then when the like But I just don't feel I like it's one of those things where it's like you don't have to like just because Jack is gay doesn't mean every he's sexualizing every male he comes encounter with, right? And that's that was kind of the thing that they were like, you know, oh, he's his roommate, so of course he's gonna try and get with them. Like that's just shitty.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

It is shitty. So and like you said, all because maybe the writers just wanted to change direction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Storyline and then add in some stuff. And why does all Jack's stuff oh, and also he smokes now? Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_01 28:56

He grabbed it and then Jen was like, uh well. But like, why? Like, why was that even there? I don't know. It was weird, it was weird. I guess because she was like, Are you okay? But there's like other ways to to say that. Um, I did appreciate when Dawson was like freaking out about all the rental stuff. He's like, No, we gotta film it because we gotta give the lights back and we gotta give the camera back. And I was like, Yeah, yes. Sometimes you're just like, This is it, this is what we're doing, changing nothing else. Yep, it has to be. I don't care if that if like we don't love this costume, it's the one that fits and the show's tomorrow, you know? Like, it's just yeah. So I thought that was pretty funny. Um oh, I already said the thing. And I said Jack smoking. Oh, okay, and then the end of the episode, Joey's throwing snowballs talking about it. Yeah, what was that about? And then it says to be continued. And I was like, what part is to be continued? Like it's the end of a normal episode. Like, usually that would happen like when when Mitch like drove off the road.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

But I'm like when you have a cliffhanger, there's no cliffhanger.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Nothing's happening, all doors were closed, walking down the sidewalk.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Yeah. So what was that about?

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Maybe we'll find out when we watch the next one. Maybe like on her walk home, something happens. But I was like, why is it to be it's always to be continued after an episode, unless there's a cliffhanger. Right. There's no cliffhanger. I actually like went back because I was like, what did I miss? Watched the last like minute or so again. And I was like, nothing's there. There's nothing. So to be continued, I guess. Hold on to your seats. Who knows? Could be another snowball coming. I don't know what I'm saying. Um, but anyway, oh boy. Uh thanks for tuning in, guys. Um, hope that you are doing okay about everything with James Vanderbeek. And we'll be back for more Dawson's Creek and more about that as well. Um, here on Generation in Between. Yay! Thank you so much. See you next time. Bye. Bye.