A Muppet Christmas Carol: A Xennial Classic

Is your favorite portrayal of Bob Cratchit on film performed by Kermit?

Do you feel like Victorian England would've been a better place with actual puppets strolling down the cobblestone streets?

If you think Sir Michael Caine was robbed of a Best Actor win for his role as Scrooge in A Muppet Christmas Carol, you might be a Xennial fan of it and we are too. Like, superfans. 

Which is why we rewatched it for the umpteenth time for this episode. Join us as we share our favorite parts, quote some lines and delve into the making of this 1992 holiday classic.  

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Chapters

• 0:00 Opening Banter & Episode Setup
• 0:50 Declaring Love For A Classic
• 5:30 Why Gonzo As Dickens Works
• 8:40 Ratings Hangover From Gremlins
• 11:20 Plot, Release Year, And The Musical Frame
• 15:40 Michael Caine’s Commitment To Scrooge
• 19:20 Jim Henson’s Legacy And Passing
• 24:00 Disney, Parks, And Muppet Merch
• 28:00 Brian Henson’s Path To The Director’s Chair
• 32:20 Frank Oz, Yoda, And Directing Hits
• 36:40 Voices Behind Kermit, Gonzo, And Friends
• 42:00 Practical Effects And Ghost Craft
• 47:50 Underwater Ghosts And Raised Sets
• 52:20 Songs, Cuts, And That Missing Ballad
• 57:10 Easter Eggs, Winks, And In-Jokes
• 1:01:40 Favorite Characters And Songs
• 1:06:00 Pacing, Graveyard Scene, And Feels

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Have you ever quoted Charles Dickens in the voice of Gonzo the Great? Do you prefer your classic literature interpreted by puppeted frogs, pigs, and rats? It's you if you've ever learned important life lessons about generosity, family, and the Christmas spirit from a crew of adorable and hilarious puppets, you might be a Xennial Muppet Christmas Carol fan. And we are too. Hi, I'm Katie. That's a lot of words. That's how you know it was me, girl. That's how you know. Hi, I'm Danny. And you are listening to Generation in Between, a Xennial podcast where we remember, revisit, and sometimes relearn all kinds of things from being 80s kids and 90s teens. And you've caught us on a rare day where we both agree that this movie is a banger. It is. And that is a Muppet Christmas Carol. Yes, it's it's no secret we love this movie. I'm surprised it's taken us this long to do an episode about it because we seem to reference it a lot. I know. In fact, fun fact, currently in a production of a Christmas Carol, and I frequently be like, oh, it's like in Muppet Christmas Carol. And one of the teens in the dressing room one day was like, guys, I uh think she likes Muppet Christmas Carol. I was like, I do. You letting them know. It's the best. It's my favorite version of Christmas Carol. Yes. It's that's my number, and my number two is Scrooged. Scrooge is really good. Scrooge is really good. Yeah, it's an awesome adaptation. We both rewatched it, but you know, it's a little different too, though, because a lot of the things we we rewatch, for example, Gremlins or any of the other things we re-watch, sometimes it's the first time we've seen it in like decades, or sometimes I'm sure you've watched Gremlins since then. It's something we've seen maybe a handful of times. Or in Katie's case, never seen. Or never seen. But Muppet Christmas Carol, we have seen dozens, hundreds of I don't know, so many times. I've watched it multiple times every Christmas. Like literally. And when I was a kid, I watched it multiple times. It's one, you know how you have certain movies you'll put on while you're doing something else. It's one of those for me. Yes. During Christmas season and even before that. So I can quote, like Troy and I were watched it the other night together. I'd already watched it once a season. And I am one of those annoying people who will quote it as we're going. Yeah. No, you have to. All the like, light the lamp, not the rat. Light the lamp, not the rat. Like all the things. I can't help it. And um, like our gonzo at the end, where he's like, and Tiny Tim did not die. I say that one a lot. I say that one a lot. Even when I'm at other presentations of the show, anytime that comes up, I'm like, who did not die? Like whispering to myself. Um, but you know, and we'll get into this too. A lot of what Gonzo says in the movie is Charles Dickens. Yeah. And they actually cast him for that reason to be able to like bring the book in. It's an unusual casting, but it works. Excuse me, it's not unusual. You think you don't think it's unusual to have Gonzo quoting Charles Dickens? No. Really? I just mean like of all the Muppets. Yeah. Why would it, why not, why not Gonzo? I would see. Hmm. Good question. There, gotcha. Sam the Eagle. Oh my god. That's Troy's favorite part. I love him. A business. A business. My favorite part in that whole scene is the kid going, yes head, Massa. I like him goes, that's the American way. So this is I mean, that is the British way. Yeah. The whole episode is just us quoting. Yeah, we're never gonna get through it. Okay, okay. So here we go. Here we go. So um we are wearing t-shirts that I just got online that have all the characters. So you might be able to see us on we'll take a picture before we go too. And I didn't bring her in because we've been having a comedy of errors this morning to get started, and we were all situated, everything perfect. And I realized I didn't bring in my Miss Piggy, Mrs. Cratchit, Funko Pop that Cooper gave me. But she is here in the building. So the spirit of her is helping us with this episode because neither of us wanted to get up again to try to fix one more thing. There's just been a lot going on, but we are excited to be here. Um, we do have one little piece of business left over from the last episode, though. What is it? We did not say what our rating was for Gremlins. Gremlins. Well, duh, five out of five. You give it a five? I love that movie. I know it's so much fun. Okay. What is yours? I would I was debating this on the way over. I think three. I think three. I'm shocked you gave it a three. I know. It was like you hated it. I was thinking 2.5 or 3. I know, but I've been thinking about it, and I re-listened to our episode, and I think maybe I just was not in the right Christmas spirit when I watched it. So this is me trying to not be a Scrooge. So the Gremlins marinated in your soul for a while. Yeah, it did. I'm here for that. It did. And hearing like all the little fun facts and the different like things they did with the animatronics, which all that I didn't know when I watched it, it's really puppet. I kept saying animatronics. Either way. Puppets are better. Trust me. I know. Trust me. I know Katie hates them animatronics. I do. But yeah, I okay, good. Yeah. Okay. So if you listen to our Gremlins episode, uh, that's our rating. And if you didn't listen to it, that's our rating and go back and listen to it. So you'll want to listen to it. It's all right. So for those that either haven't seen a Muppet Christmas Carol or a new version of Christmas Carol, I have a plot summary. Okay. Here we go. Let's do it. The Muppets put their spin on the Victorian era tale of an elder Christmas hating miser named Scrooge, who is visited by spirits who foretell his future and share secrets from his past and present which help change his view on life. Love it. Which is basically the plot of a Christmas carol. But in this version, the Muppets help tell the story. And this is a 1992 Christmas musical film. That's important. We're going to talk about that a little bit. And it's produced and directed by Brian Henson, son of the great Jim Henson. He died, yeah. He died as this was all happening. I have a little more on that as we go. And this was Brian Henson's feature directorial debut. He was 28. Yeah, he was young. He was young. I have a feeling I'm going to know a lot. I'm like a Muppet Christmas Carol Space. Well, that's what I was going to say because there's so much more I could have put in here. And I know you know a lot. So just anytime chime in, whether I have it or not, we I know that you in your brain have a lot of research already on this. So we'll talk about it. It is the fourth theatrical film featuring the Muppets. Oh. Okay. I thought it was. It's only the fourth one. It's only the fourth. Yeah, I believe Muppet Treasure Island was after that. Okay, that's it. And then the like more modern Muppet movies. And the first one is the Muppet movie, then Muppets Take Manhattan. And then the Great Muppet Caper. Oh, yeah, the Great Muppet Caper. Then this one. Yeah. Which I don't love. The Great Muppet Caper. It's not my favorite. Muppets Take Manhattan, though. That one's good. Look, anything in New York City? I'm there for it. Love it. I'm there for it. And as we already mentioned, it's adapted from the 1843 novella A Christmas Carol by Charles Dix Dickens. Charles Dixon. Dixon. Charles Dixon. He's from Georgia. He's from Georgia. You know him. You know what? We should rename him Gerald. Gerald Dixon. You gotta listen to the grim ones, guys. Go back. Okay. We love you, Geralds, all five of you that I know. I know. It's not a lot of people. We love you all that I don't like your name. It's not. Okay. And the screenplay was written by Jerry Jewell. We'll talk about him in a little bit. Well, that's a fun name. Jerry Jewell. It's not spelled the way you think, though. It's J-U-H-L. Well, never mind. But it's still cool to say. Jerry Jewel. I wonder if he's a Gerald. No, don't say that. He goes by Jerry. Okay. It is the I never thought about this before, but it is the first Muppet film where a human is the main protagonist. Yeah. And interacts with the Muppets, but the human is. And it does star Michael Kane as Ebenezer Cruz. Ebenezer Cruz. He sounds cute. Hottie Scrooge coming this way.

unknown: 8:27

Boop boo boop boop.

SPEAKER_00: 8:29

Michael Kane as Ebenezer Scrooge. Which is a big deal. Like he was a like, I mean, he's still a serious actor. Very serious. And maybe you'll say this. He only agreed to do this if he they played it straight. Yeah. Yeah. He said he didn't want it to be. I have the exact quote later, but essentially, yeah. He was gonna act like they were Shakespearean actors that he was acting alongside. And man. He every time I watch it, I'm just reminded what an amazing actor Michael Cain is. He's so good. That scene, my favorite, we'll get there. The song, the bell song. Yes. And at the end where he's singing with her and he's crying, and it's just like it's so heartbreaking. Oh so good. So good. So he's 93, and he did retire in 2023, I believe. 93?

unknown: 9:25

Damn.

SPEAKER_00: 9:26

He just retired a couple years ago. Okay. So he's, I mean, he says he's not doing any more. Who knows? But I mean, I think that's fine. You can retire when you're 90. He's done enough, you guys. Y'all let us know. Ebenezer Cruz. He hasn't done yet, though. Just saying. We're too late. Okay. So it was released December 11th, 1992, and it was not a huge box office success. It has, it did have good reviews, but it just wasn't a big whatever. The weekend it opened, it opened against Aladdin and Home Alone 2. Did you go see this in the movies? Uh-uh. I did. I didn't. Oh, I did. And do you remember going? Like, do you remember the movie? I remember, yeah. I mean, because I went to the movies a lot as a kid. And I mean, I had just turned 12. I was in middle school. But like Muppets is like I felt like, you know how sometimes when you're in middle school, like you act like you're too cool to watch like kids' movies. I feel like Muppets were not that way. Everybody watched Muppets. They're still not. Yeah. And I don't remember if I went with my sister or not. We'll talk about this later because she loved the Muppets and she but she was seven years older than me, so she was in college. But I'm wondering if we went together when she was home. That I don't remember. But I know I I saw it in the movies because I remember that song being in it, and then it wasn't. Because they take it out and you'll tell the story. Yeah. And then, of course, we had it on VCR tape and I watched it. Yeah. Bajillions. We I believe we had it on VHS and then also on DVD later. And when we had it on DVD, the bell song was something you could see. Yeah. Well, on the VCR tape, it was in there. Okay. It was it was in there. It was in there. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, we have like where it was removed in my notes here a little bit later. Um, oh, did you see this in theaters? Oh my god. Look at that. I was gonna ask you. Okay. Well, I did. So let's talk a little bit about the main people associated with the movie. Obviously, Jim Henson. We've talked about him before when we talked about Labyrinth. You need to read his um his uh biography. Okay. It's so good. Oh, I bet. Fascinating. Okay. Anyway, in all your free time. In all my free time. No, look, look, listeners, you want to get me a gift for Christmas? Maybe you don't. Get her book, she won't read it. Get me a I won't read it. I mean, eventually. Yeah, eventually. You don't have any free time right now. That's what I mean. I'll read it January 19th. When my show is over. But then you're gonna be in book launch mode. That's true. See? I know. But if I'm traveling for my book, I'll need something for the plane. Oh, good point. Okay. I will read it sometime in 2026. Anyway, y'all get her a book. Give me a book. And buy her book. And so by the way, let's pause. Oh, yeah. We need to say that. Go ahead. Oh, my first book, Legacy List, um, How to Create a Life That Will Outlive You will be available in April 2026. And it's on pre-sale right now. Go to Amazon. Pre-order. Yep, it's on Barnesandnoble.com too. And for local people, we'll get it into some local independent bookshops as well. Yay. But if you pre-order it now, it'll just show up on the book launch date in your mailbox. And the great thing about this is what they explained to me. The great thing about pre-sales is they all process the same day. Oh, cool. So what it can do is it can like bump your like bestseller ranking. So if I don't know, for example, 500 people pre-order it by April, then that day it looks like I sold 500 copies. That's how it works. That's awesome. So even if just for that one day I'm somewhere on a top 100 list, I'll be so happy. So thanks. And and I hope you like the book too. So of course. Please, please check it out. All right. So we'll do that. James Maury Henson, that's his full name. September 24th, 1936. That's when he was born. He was born in Mississippi and he was raised there for a while and then they moved to Maryland. And he began, we've talked a little bit about this too, so I'll just brush over it, but he began developing puppets as a high school student. And he had Sam and Friends, which was a short-form comedy puppet television program when he was at the University of Maryland. It was for adults, guys. It was. He never set off to create um puppetry for kids. Right. That was his like his thing, was it was like dark humor. Mm-hmm. We talked when did we talk about Jim Henson? I feel like Labyrinth. Was it Labyrinth? Yes. It was probably Labyrinth. Yes. Yeah. Um, and in that vein, he did, and I think we talked about this then too. He did have puppets in a segment called Land of Gorch that was on the first season of Saturday Night Live. Yep. And it was like that dark adult humor, and they would perform lots of explosions. They perform along other stars of the show like Lily Tomlin. I guess Raquel Welch was a guest that first season. So like she performed with these puppets. But um they kind of clashed with the show's, you know, it's the show's first season, SNL. So they were kind of like, eh, this isn't really like the direction we're going, even though it was pretty popular. And even now there's like a cult following of people that watch those. So he did that. So I found this out. He has he had a degree in family and consumer science. Well, it was called home economics when he got it. So then I was like, even nowadays, what does someone do with that? Well, think about though. I mean, you're learning home economics stuff. It probably helped him make puppets better. Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably my guess. I don't know. Yeah, it and it did say he could sew, create. Um, there's a lot to do with like finance and things like that, which would probably go into like having your own business. Uh what I found so that if if today you get a family consumer science degree, you can get a job as like a program coordinator for a nonprofit, jobs in like theaters, things that benefit children, families, wellness coordinators, and you can stack it with other degrees, like um, because you learn about it a lot about nutrition. So you could go on to then be a dietitian or something like that. So I thought that was interesting. I was like, huh, okay. Okay, that's a fun little education fact. Yeah, that guy. Look at that. I know I I was like, why am I going down this rabbit hole? But I really want to know. Like, what does this mean? Like what's how it goes in your research. But like you would expect him to have a degree in like art or theater or film just because of what he accomplished. But it's interesting that from that place, it makes sense based on what you said, especially, but it just kind of surprised me that that was like he didn't go to like USC film school or something like that. But I was also maybe have Dawson's Creek on my brain. I don't know. So we know that first sketch comedy TV series he created, The Muppet TV, the Muppet Show, 1976 to 81. You can still get those on DVD. Our family has them. Really catapulted those main characters like Kermit and Piggy and Rolf, and all of them really into the spotlight. And he did some other good things in his life. He founded the Jim Henson Foundation, which has done a lot of good work, and then unfortunately died in May of 1990. It was a rapid infection. I read something, yeah. So he was he did an appearance with Kermit on Arsenio Hall. Remember that show? May 4th. That's my birthday. And afterward, he complained that he had a sore throat, and he passed away May 16th. I think there was some other health stuff too going on with him. Maybe. Um, I I'm trying to remember when I read his book. I feel like there was other stuff happening. But like to read about the description of his funeral is the saddest. They played Rainbow Connection. Big Bird was a ball bearer. Like, I mean, oh my god. I know, guys. Oh I know. Well, at the time of his death, he was actually in negotiations to sell the company to the Walt Disney Company, which didn't end up happening until later. Yeah. So, but like he was already in talks, and then it was all kind of shelved, which maybe it would have been anyway. Uh so then he was awarded posthumously a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame in '91. And then that Muppets Vision 3D. I love it. It's gone now, guys. That opened on May 16th, 1991, exactly one year after he died. And yeah, that's the one that just closed in June. But we have the new rock and roller coaster with the Muppets coming this summer. I cannot wait. It's gonna be great. Disney under okay, there's two characters. Well, I'll say a group of characters and one character that Disney does not capitalize on enough. The first is Figment. I'm serious. I knew you were gonna say that. Because it's true. Like, so many people love Figment and they do not make enough merch. Like, I'm not kidding. Like, um, and everybody out there who's a Figment stan agrees with me. And then the Muppets, they don't capitalize on, like, you go to Disney Park, you can't find Muppet stuff. Hopefully, now you will be able to, which Muppet fans will rejoice. And it's crazy because they need like Disney needs to pay attention. Like, yep, listen to listen to Danny, guys. I'm no, but it's not me, it's not just me. Like the public is speaking and they don't listen. You want some more money? I'm telling you. Well, you figure they'll have a whole dedicated gift shop on your way out now. Yeah, they're already starting. Uh we it's the ride's not closed yet. The pre-show's closed. The ride's still open because you know they're gonna keep that open as long as they can. Um, they are starting to phase out um rock and roller coaster stuff, and now it's just like it's like just like generic rock and roll stuff, which is weird. And then as you're leaving, there's like Muppet signs. So like it's getting there. I'm ready for it to happen. It'll be there soon. Um, I'll have to go. The two of us will have to go do it. Like, I know you go with your family or whatever, but I'll go with you a day. Ever has to Disney Day to go to Disney. Go on Thursday. Hey. Last minute. It's going. Oh, it's gonna be so fun. I know. All right. So then Brian Henson, who we mentioned, his son, he actually did not want to be part of the Muppet universe as a young man at first. He didn't hate it or anything, but he wanted to be an aerospace engineer. So he actually went to college for that at the University of Colorado. But then when he would come home, because he grew up in New York City. He would kind of get pulled into little projects here and there. And he quickly discovered that he missed that part of his life, which I didn't mention that Jim Henson and his wife had five kids. Yeah. So he ended up one of the summers he was home, he became a performer of the plant Audrey 2. Love it. In Little Shop of Horrors on Broadway. And then he was the chief puppeteer on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Oh my God. So fun. And then he was he directed some things in Jim Hudson's Mother Goose stories, which were aired on the Disney channel. Oh I forgot about the Mother Goose stories. So he was kind of like still working on a few things here and there and eventually got pulled completely back in. Um he became the co-executive producer for the television series Dinosaurs. And then eventually not the mama. I love that show. I loved that show. And eventually he became the president of Jim Henson Productions. He was married once, didn't have any kids, got divorced, and then in 2010, he married Mia Sarah. Who's that? She is Sloan from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Yeah. And they have a child together. Okay. Yeah. Also, she was in Legend. Yes. Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot. How dare you? I did like Legend, though, but I only now I can only think of Tim Curry when I think of Legend. Oh, as you should. As you should. And I think of her from uh Ferris Bueller. So I found this cool quote that Brian Henson said about when basically the baton was passed to him to direct Muppet Christmas Carol. His quote was, I was terrified. Honestly, I didn't even want to direct it. I wanted Frank Oz, who's the performer behind Muppet characters like Miss Piggy, Fozzie Bear, Sam Eagle. He wanted Frank Oz to direct it, and he wouldn't. But he said he would be on set with me all the way through, and he was. Aw. So we kind of mentored him. Love that. And as we know, he was young. I mean, that kid was young. Yeah. I would be nervous too. Shoot. And in and grieving and all the things. Okay, so now our favorite name, Jerry Jewell, the screenwriter, he was actually the first full-time employee of Jim Henson Company in 1961.

SPEAKER_01: 22:10

Fun.

SPEAKER_00: 22:11

Yeah. And he met Henson at a puppeteers con convention. And then the two of them coined the term Muppet, which was a combination of the word marionette and puppet. So he was there from like the beginning, and he wrote this one. He wrote on The Salmon Friends show also. He wrote for Sesame Street. He created scripts for characters like Cookie Monster, Oscar the Grouch, Big Bird, all the big names. And he is the creator of Super Grover, uh, the superhero version of Grover. And he throughout his career received two Emmy Awards for his work. He was a head writer for The Muppet Show. So he's done a lot. He was the head writer for Fraggle Rock. His wife was also a writer on that one and the script editor. So that's kind of fun. You know, Fraggle Rock this week just came out with a new Christmas special on Apple TV. Really? Oh I haven't I haven't watched it yet, but it's it came out this week. Oh, that sounds good. We have to watch that. Uh so I found a fun quote from him. It's not about this movie, but I found different quotes on IMDB from a lot of these people. And he said, Kermit is the eye in the middle of the hurricane. And you know, he's always in control. Sometimes just barely, but he's always in control. And the interesting thing about it, of course, is that he created the hurricane. That's funny. I loved that. I was like, that sounds like parenting. Like you're in the middle of all the things, and you're like, I but I did this. I don't know if I would ever say I'm the eye of a hurricane. No, yeah, probably neither. And then I just want to sing Hamilton when I hear that, but I won't. Not today, friends. I do love that song though. So good. Okay. The music. Have you ever been on the eye of a hurricane? It's scary. No, I haven't. It's not funny. I run away from hurricanes because it's calm. Because it's calm. It's scary. It's calm because the eye, there's nothing. Yeah. And you know, like you made it through some scary shit. But there's more. You're only halfway done. Yeah. Like, no, no. I run away from hurricanes. I mean, I when I was a kid, I didn't have a choice because my parents both had to stay and work. Yeah, yeah. That's fair. That's fair. Maybe I'll stay for one someday. No, don't. It ain't. No, I won't. All right. So the music, Paul Williams. He was a pretty popular songwriter. He wrote Rainbow Connection. But then he also wrote for some pop artists of the 70s, including David Bowie, Three Dog Night, Helen Reddy, and The Carpenters. Or Carpenters. They're not called The Carpenters. Uh-uh. They're called Carpenters. Never knew that. I still say The Carpenters. Like when I ask for music on Siri. And it actually corrected me in the car on the way over. I asked for a car, I said, play Merry Christmas, Darling, by the Carpenters. And then it said, playing Merry Christmas, Darling by Carpenters. I know. I was singing. I was like, why am I singing? Why do you want that? It's so sad. I just love her voice. That's so good. It is good. So he actually, before this film, had had not been in the public scene for most of the 80s because he ran into some substance use problems and he was in and out of rehabs, but got his life together, handled this movie, and according to everything I read, has been clean and sober ever since. So good job, Paul Williams. All right, let's get into the performers. Sir Michael Cain. Oh, he's a sir? He's a sir. Okay. Yes, he was knighted in 2000 by Queen Elizabeth II. All right. Yep. His full name is Maurice Joseph McLeite. What? Yes. Maurice Joseph McLwhite. Okay, so Michael Cain is his stage name. It is. And he was born on March 14th, 1933. And he, like I said, he retired in 2023, 93, at the time of this recording. He's known for his distinct Cockney accent. And he has appeared in more than 130 films in an eight decade career. Get it. He's like a child actor. He has received numerous awards, two Academy Awards, three Golden Globe Awards, Screen Actors Guild. And he is one of only five. I'm surprised there's this many, but one of only five male actors to be nominated for an Academy Award for Acting in five different decades. So he was nominated for an Academy Award in acting at least once in five different decades. He only won twice, but wow. Yeah. That's a lot. And I'm like, there's five people that have done that? I know. I didn't look up who it was. I didn't go down that rabbit hole. Sorry guys. I bet Jack Nicholson is one. I agree. And maybe I don't even know who else it would be. He's got to be one, though. I don't know. I don't know. We'll look into it. Maybe, maybe not. So some of he's, like I said, 130 films. So I'm not going to list them all, but some Xennial films that we might know him from. He was in the Cider House Rules in 1999. Dress to Kill, 1980, Mona Lisa, 1986. Quills. I don't really remember that one. That was in 2000 and Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. I love that movie, 1988. God, I haven't watched that in forever. That's actually going to come back. Oh. I have a little surprise about that one. Miss Congeniality in 2000, Austin Powers Gold Member, 2002. And it was obviously into the new millennium, but Secondhand Lions is one of my favorite movies. He's in 2003. He's not the only human in this movie, but he is like the main one, usually surrounded by Muppets. I have his quote that you mentioned about I'm going to play this movie like I'm working with the Royal Shakespeare Company. I will never wink. I will never do anything Muppety. I am going to play Scrooge as if it is an utterly dramatic role and there are no puppets around me. And I think that right there is why this why this movie is so good. Yes. Because if he would have treated it like a parody, which is the way they were going to film it, it would not land the same. Right. Yeah. He was able to kind of keep the heart of the movie. It was genius. And I think set, I think, in my opinion, set the way for the other movies with Muppets and Humans. Because think about it, all the other humans that are with the Muppets in the movies are serious. I mean they're comedies, but like they are they have like a serious situation going on. Right, right. Like what what's the um the the Muppet movie where he's like talking about if am I a man or a Muppet? Oh yeah. Um Jason Siegel Seagalman? What the hell is his name? The guy from How I Met Your Mother. Yeah. That guy. That's his name, right? Jason. Did I what did I say? Siegelman? It's not Seagull. It's just Siegel, right? Oh, just Seagull. Is that right? There's no men. We're messing with that. That guy, the tall guy. Am I a man? Am I a Muppet? I love that song. But I think I I anyway, even when it's parodies, I think Michael Cain set the bar high for treating Muppets like fellow actors and not puppets. Yeah, that's a good point. I never thought about that. Yeah. No, that's a good point. I love Muppets. It's like, wow, never thought of that. I have a lot of fun. That's a good perspective. Um, so he accepted the role because his then seven-year-old daughter had never seen him in a movie and he wanted to make sure it was one she could watch. Aww. I love that. And he admitted that he was not a good singer. Um, and that he actually that he is. Well, he was actually rather surprised that his like duets with Kermit turned out as good as they did. And he said he felt fine about it because Scrooge was like supposed to not sound super great and a little awkward. But he didn't sound awkward. No, that's just what he said. I know. Well, we are we're our worst critics. He doesn't consider himself a singer, but he was like pleased with how it turned out. I get I understand that makes sense. I feel that deeply, Michael Cain. Just need to sing with some Muppets and you'll feel better. Think so. That's the one. I mean, honestly, though, that would be that would that'd be the dream. That's the dream. Sing with a Muppet. Let's do it. 2026. Here we come. I mean, I did have the opportunity, but it didn't happen. Oh, yeah. We'll talk about that later, guys. Yeah, maybe I'm bonus. Or just another time. Okay. He did later note that the Muppets are the biggest scene stealers of all, but his series commitment grounded the film's emotional core, which is what you said. I love that. All right, so Frank Oz, who is the voice and puppeter of Miss Piggy, Fozzie Bear, Sam Eagle, and Animal, and Yoda. Same guy. Yep. Did not know that. Yep. He's Yoda's voice. His actual last name is Oznowicks. Okay, cool. He goes by Frank Oz. I would too. He was born in England, but he moved to Montana when he was a kid for some reason. Interesting uh switch. Little switch. Um, they ended up moving to Oakland, California, and he was an apprentice puppeteer at Children's Fairyland Amusement Park. And that's through that work, there is how he met Jim Henson. And he's another like OG. He's been with them since Sesame Street, The Muppet Show. And George, this is interesting, interesting story. George Lucas originally contacted Jim Henson to play Yoda. Ah. But Henson recommended Oz for the part instead. And so that's how he got the part. Yeah. And he actually has done a lot behind the scenes too. He co-directed The Dark Crystal with Henson. Guys, 2026, we're watching. You've never seen it, right? I've never seen that one. She won't hate it, but I can't wait for her to watch it. She's gonna hate it. Let's do it. Oh, it's you're gonna have to give so much to say. It's gonna be great. I love that movie. So then he went on to direct on his own The Muppets Take Manhattan, Little Shop of Horrors from 1986, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Okay. So this Christmas Carol was the second time he'd worked with Michael Cain. What about Bob? Such a good movie. The Indian in the Cupboard. Don't remember that one. Oh yeah. You never read that book? Uh-uh. Oh, you didn't? Uh-uh. Okay. Bowfinger in 1999 and again into the 2000s, but he directed the Stepford Wives. Oh, that's a good one. That's really good, by the way. Yeah. I've never read the book. That'd be another one I'd like to read. Um, I fun fact, I remember when they when they redid the Stepford Wives with Nicole Kidman? Yeah. Okay. So I remember seeing that movie, but then I read the book years ago, and it's a little different. Really? Yeah, I won't tell you the difference. Okay, don't tell me. Don't tell me. It's pretty much the same, but it is a little different. The ending, I think, is a little different. Okay. All right.

unknown: 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 32:38

So Frank Oz, he amazing voices and apparently an amazing director. Okay, guys. He's still out there working. He's still alive. Uh, yep. It's interesting. Most of these guys that I'm talking about at this point are all older white guys at this point. Just buddies of Jim Henson that are still out there doing it. I mean, well, it was only 1992. This is true. 1962. Well, some of them were working with him, but I mean, like, he was with them. They're old white guys. I I did have that moment. Pretty soon. I was like, I don't want to be that person, but I was like going through IMDb and I was like, I mean. Because I had a moment where I was like toggling and I was like, wait, which one is this? Because they all kind of look the same. Well, uh, anyway. That's the way but he's talented nonetheless. All right. Steve Whitmeyer is the voice of Kermit, Rizzo, Beaker, Belinda Cratchit, and Bean Bunny. Ah, I love Bean Bunny. He's so cute. And he was born in Atlanta in 1959, and he has the same birthday, not the same year, but the same birthday as Jim Henson, September 24th. Cute. And when he was a teenager, so he was born in 59. So, like the Muppet Show was on and things like that, his friends started calling him Kermit because he loved puppets and puppeting so much. And his yearbook has like Kermit like inscribed on the front. And then he became the voice of Kermit. He wasn't the original, but yeah. That's manifesting without knowing your manifesting. So he was the voice of Kermit from 1990. In fact, a Muppet Christmas Carol was one of his first big things being Kermit. Can you do a Kermit voice? Oh my God. On the scene. Can you? No. Oh. Will.

unknown: 34:20

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00: 34:24

What does he say when he's doing the weather? Georgia too? You need to ask me, can you have a southern accent? Because today I can. Okay. All right. Well, we'll do that right now, just because we really want to. But who, but what am I saying? Whatever you want. Well, Merry Christmas, y'all. Welcome to the podcast. I love how Kermit and your Southern accent both say southern. They both started with the word well. Because that's how you start when you're speaking in a different accent. You have to say the word well. I don't know. Could I do a Kermit? Yeah. Could you use the season to be jolly and joyous? Bla la. No, I can't do it. That was actually pretty good. It was better than yours, but no, it was way better than mine. I don't, I should have known you were going to ask me this. I'm not good at imitating. I I'm good at making my own voices, but I can't. I'm the same. Like I can come up with a character voice for something I'm playing. Let's do it. Well, I'm just saying, like in a show. Like I have a little bit of a character voice for the show I'm doing now. Similar to mine, but it's not mine. Got you. But I just made it up. I just made it up. I thought you meant like you're at home with puppets, like practicing your puppet voices. I guess I should to be ready for this podcast. I have you ever done puppets? Puppetry? No. I feel like it would be really hard. It's gotta be. I feel like I I've never done it either. But after watching how hard uh Thomas worked in the puppet for Audrey 2, like his whole body had to make that plant move. Like it's a whole, it's a whole creative art that probably takes so much training and skill that we have no idea about over here. What I think is so interesting about most of these performers too is that they are the puppeteers, but they're also the voices, right? And that's not always the case. Sometimes there's puppeteers and the voice actors are different. But in the case of most Muppet stuff, they're the same thing. Which I think is wild. And and usually you're the voice of multiple Muppets. Yes. Yeah. Can you do a piggy? No. Okay. I'll think about it. All right. Maybe I'll just throw it in randomly in the case. Katie Kane's in when I put her on the spot like that. Remember when I made you sight read? And then she made me delete it. So I left most of it in. No, we did. We left most of it in, but there was one part. She was like, please take that out. Of the social clips. That's what I meant. Yeah, we took it out the social clips. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't put her on blast. Not for that. Not for that. Maybe for maybe for my Kermit voice, though you might have to. I know. I guess we'll see. I'll put mine too, don't worry. Okay. Well, yours was good. I mean, it wasn't good, but it was better than yours. Yeah. I made yours look better, probably. Okay. So then I'll definitely put mine. You're like, so now that I think about it, let's do it. I don't think I can do any any Muppet voices now that I'm thinking about it. Oh, Kermi. That's pink. That's pretty good. Yeah. No, that was too high pitched. She's got a little more. She's got a little more. Oomph. Maybe if I like listen to a line they said, then and then do it. But you know, like our friend Tom, he's really good at that. Yes. And I cannot, I can't. I'm not a good mimicker. Okay. I would say I'm better at mimicking than just like grabbing it out of my head. Obviously. So if I played Kermit, you'd be like, I can do this right now. No. No. No. Definitely not. I'm a good mimicker if they already sound like it's not. Sound like me. Yeah. For human voices. They already sound. I can elevate my own voice. Correct.

unknown: 38:00

Correct.

SPEAKER_00: 38:01

Correct. Look, I can only do two accents. That's it. That's all I have. I can do southern and British, and that's all. That's pretty good though. That's it. That covers a whole array of things that you could be casting. I mean, but like you asked me to do something else, I'm be like, I don't know. Like a dear in headlights. Everything sounds either British or Southern. There's no Troy's pretty good at accents. Oh. You've told me that before. I'm gonna have to put him to the test. He does a really good Scottish accent. Okay. I cannot. Oh, I bet that's good. Yeah, he's really good at it. Wow. Okay. I'll have to ask him to do that. All right. Sorry. All right. Well, we're good. We're good. Back on track. So Katie has so many notes. I do. Oh my gosh. We really do. And I cut some stuff out because I was like, I don't need all this. I kept the really cool stuff, but all right. So this Steve Whitmer was the official voice of Kermit then from 1990 to 2016. Oh, yeah. He passed a long time. Passed the torch about nine years ago. All right, the final voice, and there were way more voices than this in the film, but these were like the heavy hitters. Dave Goals was the voice of Gonzo, Robert Marley, Bunsen Honeydew, and Bettina Cratchit. Bettina! Bettina! I'm a Linda. I was surprised those were two different voices. I know. They sound the same to me. They do, but they were two different people. And so he was picked up by Jim Henson and company to design Muppets. So he was not just a puppeteer, but actually made puppets for television projects in the early 70s. And then once they started to work on the Muppet show, they told Dave, they convinced him to become a puppeteer, which he had not done before. So he began to perform and develop memorable characters such as Gonzo, Dr. Bunsen Honeydew. And he has gone on to become a principal Muppeteer and still works at the Jim Huns and Company. And along with the Steve Whitmer guy I just talked about, the Kermit Voice, they're the only but that can't be right. It says they're the only Puppeteers voice actors who have appeared in all eight theatrical Muppet films, but that's not right. Because I just told you the first film for the one. Forget it. I bet I put the wrong name. I bet it's Oz. Again, A plus research by team James. It's gotta be, it's gotta be Frank Oz. Girl, I don't know. You I don't know. I messed up notes last time too. It don't matter. We do this every time. Sack chest. Someone, someone was in a lot of Muppet movies, guys. She goes, the look on her face, she was reading it, she's like, wait. I literally just said that. That's like when I said that about that man's birthday and Haley's comment. And now I'm like, oh yeah, that makes no sense. That was really fun. I know.

unknown: 40:37

I was like, what?

SPEAKER_00: 40:38

That's okay. Forget it. He's been there a long time. That's all you need to know. All right. So let's talk. We've talked a little bit about it already, but the special effects for the film.

unknown: 40:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 40:48

Or how they did things. Oh, I'm ready to talk about one thing I'm going to do. Okay, cool about. So, first of all, there was no heavy CGI because the film was made in 92, so there wasn't a whole lot to even use. So most of the supernatural effects were either practical, on set, or editing-based. They were able to edit some things post-production. Every shot with a Muppet, ghost, or mixed hump human-muppet interaction was treated as a special effect. Oh. So they had to kind of like treat it that way. Okay. So the first one, Ghost of Christmas Pass. Yeah, underwater. Yeah. So so what do you know about her? I just know that they filmed it underwater because they couldn't get it right. Like the look of her floating, which by the way, she is the creepiest. She's very creepy. That little voice and that little hand. Oh, the hand. It reminds me of um, you know, I'm SNL Donise. Yes. I'm Denise. Yeah. It does. It does look like that. Oh my gosh. But Cooper was like, that is so creepy. And Troy's like, that is not a Muppet. And I'm like, it is a Muppet. And he's like, but she looks like a human. And I was like, oh yeah, because Muppets don't usually look like humans. Not usually, no. I couldn't think of another one that did. I mean, the well, because the mayhem mayhem, the the band, they kind of look like people. Like Janice looks I know. Yeah, they don't look exactly like the skin tone of a human. I guess Christmas Present does look a bit like a human. Yeah. I think so. But anyway, she's creepy. But yeah, they filmed it underwater because they couldn't get it, they couldn't get the effect right. Right. Like with just like air or they tried air. I think they even tried like a marionette strings, maybe. And then anyway. Yeah. So just like you said, they they actually had to submerge her in baby oil. Oh, that's right. Because the water was kind of just not working correctly. And so that made her robes and hair drift more naturally, giving that ghost-like motion. Um, oh, but they did have to switch to water with later shots because the baby oil was so expensive. Can you imagine a big vat of baby oil stinking a puppet up in there? No, I can't, but it worked. She was really, really good. It was really good. So then after filming, that ghost footage was superimposed over the scene as the human actor Michael Kane S. Scrooge, for example. So it would look like she was like hovering beside him. So he just acted with air. That'd be so hard. They added her later. I think about that with nowadays with people acting with green screens, especially for like horror movies or like sci-fi, where there's like all this crap going on around you, and you're just like acting with a green screen. Like, it would be really hard. That'd be really hard. And yeah, to even watch it and know that the things you're seeing they weren't seeing when they were acting like that. That's pretty impressive, actually. That's a whole skill set right there. The ghosts of Christmas present and ghost of Christmas yet to come, they were handled with a mix of rod and puppet work, lighting, smoke. They were big. They were big. So to make the ghost appear and disappear, or to create misssmoke atmosphere, they used things like smoke machines, dry ice, and different lighting. So they just had to like kind of so there wasn't a person in those. There was a person in Christmas present. Present. Yeah, okay. And I guess maybe Christmas Yet to Come too. Yeah. It does say um, so there were still people puppeting it like outside the person inside it. Interesting. Like the face on Christmas present, like the blinking or different stuff. So the person. The person on the inside was not doing that. Okay, gosh. They were kind of just like the structure for the puppet and he moved it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So in some shots, the ghost puppets were kept in half darkness to help mask things like strings or rods as they were like being puppeted. That's true throughout the movie. Makes sense. Yeah. Um, they used a raised set on the side. Oh, like red lens. Yeah, exactly. So they were, but they said it was four feet underneath so that the puppeteers could move with ease. But I'm like, four feet. Well, they were probably on their knees. I guess, yeah. Because generally, I mean, you're not usually standing. I guess that's true. I guess that's true. And so they built them on a race set about four feet off the ground for scenes with the human actors and puppets together, right? So where Michael Caine's walking by both on the street, the real walking surface was sometimes narrow planks or little floor sections on top of it. So, like the human actors had to be really careful because there were like holes and gaps where the puppets were coming up. And I was thinking about like those dancers around the fountain. I was just thinking, like, but maybe that part they didn't have that or something. But yeah, so they actually had to be really, really careful. And they use a lot of just optical tricks. So many of the buildings on the street were actually smaller than they appear. It's just the way that they set them up to make it work. Okay, so that scene that you sang the little song from Tis the Season with Kermit walking down the street with Robin Tiny Tim on his shoulder, took 10 puppeteers. Wow. A rotating barrel covered in fake snow was positioned beneath Kermit's feet. Oh, when he's Yeah, which was to like um allow for like a natural gait. And if you pay close attention, you can kind of see it. You can see it rolling. And there was a blue screen behind it, and various puppeteers working with the characters' limbs and mouths as they were going, and then they just swap that out in editing with homes and other scenery. That was the reprise of the song. The first version of the song is when all the penguins are ice skating. That's right. But that's not the name of that song, though, is it? Isn't it um Um One More Sleep Till Christmas? Or is Yeah, but then they sing it again. Okay. It because it's the season two big jelly. Because they only do the follow-up part when it's him and Tiny Tim. That's right. Girl, I'm telling you. So that is the reprise. You're right. Yeah. So I'm wondering if that scene they're talking about when he sings it the first time, there's a lot happening. Yeah. Because the penguin are ice skating, the mice are sweeping and shit in the office. They're doing flips to the window. Yeah. They're trying to pull the shades down. Yeah. The blinds down. Yeah, maybe. See, I know this movie. You do. You do. I'm embarrassed. Don't be embarrassed. No, I'm not embarrassed. Don't be embarrassed. I um my favorite part is when the mice are trying to close that window. Yeah. And I'm like, why don't they just get Kermit to do it? I know. They tried so hard. Just have Kermit reach up his little frog arm. Like Asana. Yeah. It's so cute. It's so cute. Or when they are like stoking the fire and they use one of them as like the whatever that is. I don't even know what that's called. What is that called? The little air air thing that you ignite a that you make a flame bigger in a fire. What is that called? I don't know. I bet it has some weird name. Like it probably does. Tell us. Like, you know, the end of your um elbow is called a weenus. I do now. And I wish you would stop telling me. Did you know that ain't no idea? No, not really you told me. No, I think it is. Well, so I got really serious for a second. I was like, okay, it's like great. It is. Okay. So the most um Henson, Brian Henson said the most difficult shot in the entire film. Ooh. Is the close-up of Kermit locking the door at Scrooge's office? Why? I think just to get his like hand to turn because it's like, and I can see it in my head exactly what that looked like. He said it was like really difficult to accomplish. Yeah. Because you can't just show the key. You gotta show his little hand, but it's up close. I don't know. And it's like it would have to actually click. Girl, if I was a director, I'd be like, just take that out. Just let him shut the door. All right. If that's the most difficult job, I'd be like, we're not doing that. Let's keep going. All right. So some other fun facts about the production of the movie. I already talked about Home Alone 2 and Aladdin came out the same weekend. Um, you mentioned this too, but just that it was supposed to be a romping parody at first. And they were going to use Muppets as those ghosts. So Robin the Frog was gonna be the ghost of Christmas past, which maybe because he's a kid or something. I wouldn't, that wasn't good. Miss Piggy was gonna be the Christmas present, which I think would have been pretty funny. And Animal was gonna be the ghost of Christmas yet to come. Maybe because he doesn't talk. Because I guess he doesn't talk. Yeah, no. I think I don't know. I was thinking about this because I've seen a lot of things like you said too, where it's like, oh, but if they would have used Muppets as ghosts, it would have made it this parody and whatever. But I'm like, But that's not what they but that's not but I don't think it would have because like you've got Kermit as Bob Cratchit and you've got Gonzo as a narrator, and it's still fine. Right. Excuse me. I'm really upset about this. No. Um but I like I think they made the right choice. Get you some water, yeah, and get some coffee. Oh I go on, talk about some sitting there a long time. It's gonna be cold. I think, like I said, I think the way they did it was perfection, and I think it paved the way for other Muppet movies to operate in similar fashion. Although I don't think any of them were as as serious. The rest, I mean, Muppets are comedy, like they're yeah, they're supposed to be funny. And there was still comedy in this. Oh, definitely. I mean, Gonzo and Rezzo are the best part of the whole movie. They are so good, they're so good. I love that. Um, so before Michael Cain, George Carlin was considered for the role of Ebenezer Scrooge. Nah. No, that would have been no. That's a no. That's a no. If they were going parody route, that makes sense. It does make sense. And it was a$13 million production, which back then that's a decent amount. It was pretty expensive. That makes sense. So anytime you're bringing in puppets, then you have all the actors for the puppets, then you have all the regular actors, plus all the stuff they had to do for the set. And we already talked about this, but we'll get into it a little bit more now. The film's theatrical release, the filmmakers cut the song When Love is Gone. Oh, it's so good. Because it was deemed too sad or melancholy for children. It is sad, but it's sad. Like, I mean, well, first of all, let's be real, everybody. A Christmas Carol is a ghost story. Yeah, it's it's not a it's not a children's story. No, to begin with. He wrote it to be a ghost story. Yeah. It's supposed to be funny. In fact, also, Christmas was not really a popular holiday because it it was mainly a religious holiday around this time until this book came out. Yeah. It's true. Really. And that's what made Christmas more widespread. And even now we do a lot of the things they talk about in the book, uh-huh, like the wreaths and the decorating of the trees and caroling and all these things, and bringing gifts and Christmas feasts and all the things, like because of this, this book popularized it. Right. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Okay, so back to yes. So, like you mentioned, the song did make the cut into that VHS version, but then it wasn't on the DVD release, but now it's back, and it's in on Disney Plus. Yeah, and I hate and listen, the edit, I was just talking about this with our friend Ben the other day. The edit that they made was terrible. Like, for those of y'all that know the movie, the scene is Belle and Scrooge are out in this winter Wonderland field, and you know, she sings him this song and then leaves, right? And like her and Scrooge, like old old man Scrooge, he sings with her, and then she leaves, and it's this whole thing. And Gonzo and and um and Rizzo are like crying as she leaves. The edit is them talking, and then it edits it's the edit goes right to Gonzo and the rat crying. Oh, it makes no sense. It's the worst edit, it's basically literally like they just took the song out, but didn't adjust the context at all. It's terrible, it's a terrible edit, and the song is beautiful, it is a beautiful song, it's gorgeous, and like you said, the setting is really beautiful. And I think like there's obviously so many lessons in a Christmas Carol, the story, but I think that the lesson with Belle is a really important one. I know, and it's supposed to be sad, and Hello He dies at the end. I know. How is that worse than death? I don't know. It's not so it's not so. Speaking of music, there were actually two songs written for the movie that didn't end up making it into the movie. One was supposed to be um Honeydew and Beaker when they're seeking donations. They had a songing men song called Room in Your Heart. Oh fun. And then Sam Eagle had a song. Oh my god, what? Called Chairman of the Board that he sang with or to Scrooge as headmaster. Oh my god, I love that. But they were never even recorded, so like there's no footage of them. They were written but um cut from the script before the performances were shot. It does say, oh no, yeah, so they they don't exist. Girl, do you remember what you wrote? Well, I was looking at it, but I'm looking at the next thing. I'm ahead. I'm ahead. Okay, because I know you love these. Easter eggs. I looked up Easter eggs. Yay! I already know specific. I want to see. I want to see you. In one scene, there's a storefront named Mickle Whites. Yes, which is a reference to Michael Cain's real last. I love that. Yep. Um, there's also a store that says Stadler and Waldorf. That one. Stadler and Waldorf are the old men guys that play uh the Marley brothers. Yes, and that's a wink to the two hecklers. I love that one.

unknown: 54:37

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 54:38

I had to keep going. I had to be scary one more time. Okay. There are some other characters from the Muppet Universe in some of the crowd scenes. Ooh. Most notably, which you know, I don't know. Sprock at the dog from Frag Rock. Okay, I saw the dog and I said, Tori, that is a dog from Frag Rock. He said, No, it's not. I said, Yes, it is. Okay, it's the same puppet. Point taken done. There you go. Yep. And then there was another one too. Uh excuse me. The cows that are in Sesame Street. So cute. Uh, I mean, there's a lot. They bring a lot of and the chickens, the chickens, all the things. Um, I didn't ever notice this before. I'm curious if you did. So the narrators, Gonzo and Rizzo, by the end, they become real. Meaning they catch up to like what's happening in real time. So they're invisible narrators, but at the end, they appear physically and they have footprints for the first time in the snow. It's just a signal that the story caught up to reality and it's the moment they go from invisible to visible. Well, that makes sense. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I've never looked for it. I've never noticed that either. That makes sense. Um, and then there's obviously some adult-oriented humor throughout the movie. Uh, there's a whole controversy about Beaker. Oh, and he where he flips them off. Uh-huh. Okay, so they were um they were playing this movie in between our double show days this past Saturday on the screen. And I walked in at that part right before that part, and I said, Y'all watch, because it looks like Beaker flips him off. It was Bethany and Nate. And they were like, What? And I'm like, watch. And he goes, Me, me, me. And I s and I showed it to Twordy, he's like, it totally does. Except he doesn't have enough fingers. That's what makes sense. And he's going like this, he's just pointing. Yeah, because he doesn't have five fingers. So there's no like middle finger. But I remember, I remember as a kid rewinding uh-huh to find that to be like, did did it? Did they really do it? One of those, one of those Disney Easter eggs. Yeah. But it does look like he flips them off. And I'm just gonna go with that he did. We're just gonna roll with that. It's hilarious. So the last thing I have uh a little Easter egg before we talk about other things, our other feelings about the movie, the shooting star that Kermit looks at. So that happens in the Muppet movie as well. Oh, yeah, it does. And so it's an homage to that, but also it was meant to be like um in memory of Jim Henson. Oh, like that scene where he's just standing by himself and the shooting star. I know. I was like, because that's that's such a pretty shot, anyway. Like it it's in my brain, like burned in my brain. So, anyway, so that was mostly what I had for that's that was extensive research. That was a lot, and then everything you had too. Look at us go. But look at us go. So obviously, we can't be like, oh, re-watching it for the first time, because we watch it all the time. But tell me what is like your okay, what's your favorite character, and what's your favorite song from the movie? Girl, Gonzo is always my favorite character. Fairs. I think I like Piggy in this one. Okay. I like I like her in this one. That's because Katie played Miss Cratchit. Maybe, maybe, but I liked her as a kid too. I did too. Everybody loves Miss Piggy. I don't know. I've always loved Gonzo because he's just weird and silly. And I love Rizzo. He's I he'd probably be like a close second to Piggy. Yeah. Um, and my favorite song, the music's so good, is it's gotta be that love song. It's the bell song. You like the bell song? It's so pretty. And then, of course, One More Sleep Till Christmas.

unknown: 58:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 58:11

The reprise are are awesome. But I think those are my favorite, but they're all good. And I And I love the song they sing to Scrooge. Oh, yeah. The at the beginning goes, Mr. Humbug. Here goes Mr. Grinch. It doesn't say Grinch. No, it's not Grinch. It's something else. Here goes, Mr. I've always said Grinch, and then I realized I was totally wrong. Oh my god, Ben's yelling at us right now. Because you know he knows it. I'm looking it up. All right, you look it up. Um, I texted Danny the other day upon my rewatch, and I was like, you know, they should make a stage musical of this, even if you don't have the Muppets, just because the music and the lines are so good. No, but she said no. You have to have the Muppets. If you didn't have them, it would take it away. It would it would be stupid. I don't like people doing this show singing the Muppets songs. Really? That's stupid. I would watch that. But it's not the same, it would be something totally different. No, I and and that's probably true. And I think why um what's the name of that song? Um, here goes I don't know. Here goes Mr. Humbug. Here goes Mr. Something. I thought I always thought it said Grinch. It doesn't say Grinch. No, it's not Grinch. I guess that makes sense because you can't really say Grinch in a movie that's not licensed. Oh god, this is gonna take me a minute. Keep talking about it. Okay, cool. So oh Grim. Grim. I've always said Grinch, which makes sense. Okay. Because the next part of the lyric is if they gave a prize for being mean, the winner would be him. Yes. I just always thought it didn't rhyme. It does. But look at that. A little surprise. It does rhyme. Um all right. So if there are any parts of this Wait, what was your song you didn't say? Oh, I I also like the 'tis the season and the reprise. Yeah. You mean that's my favorite. One more sleep. One more sleep. Which one is it called? I don't know. I think it's called 'Tis the Season and I called it one more sleep. Oh. 'Cause that's how what I call it. Let's see. Well that one after all, there's only one more sleep till Christmas Day. I love it. Um I yeah, I was trying to think, were there any parts of it that you feel like it is one more sleep till Christmas. It is. I was right.

unknown: 1:00:22

Yay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:23

Okay. Well, that's that's a surprise. Oh, and the little song Tiny Tim sings. Bless us all. Oh yeah, I like that one too. I was sobbing. I love that one. I was sobbing, sobbing. And I'm not gonna even talk about why. We'll do that another day because I don't feel like I don't feel like going down that path of sadness today. We're not doing it. We're not doing it. I keep interrupting. Um no, that's okay. I was just gonna say, is there any part of it that you felt like is boring or didn't match up to like your expectations for Christmas Carol? Well, my expectations for Christmas Carol always is slim to none because it is kind of a slow story. It is kind of a slow story, right? But Muppet Christmas Carol is lovely, and I know this movie by heart, so it's it's not it's not long. It's a comfort movie. It's something I know. The music's fun, the acting is great, the Muppets are fabulous. Yeah. The only part, and this is any time I've seen Christmas Carol, and this is a me thing, I think, probably. I don't like the grave robber scene and like when it's like super long. Like I went and saw a version of it, not not the Christmas Carol, you're in a different one. And that scene was literally like 10 minutes long. What? And I was like, why? And then and the actors were great, but I just I'm always just like, okay, we get it. And then like the version you're in, it's not too bad, and they at least sing a song. But then in Muppets, I'm watching it and I'm like, why is this still going on? It was just it's too much for me. It's too long. So we need to have a new segment when we rewatch things. It should be where does Katie fall asleep? Is that the bottom? That's the one. Okay, that's the part. And then I'm back for the big ending. You're like Gonzo and Rizzo, who are like, We'll see you at the finale. Basically, yeah, like this is too scary. This is too scary. And maybe I just maybe it's just so upsetting to me that it feels like it lasts too long. That like something I don't know. I can't really tell. What other thoughts did you have upon this hundredth three watch? I don't know. I just I love this movie. My memory of this movie. So my big sister, who y'all hear about, and if y'all have been with us since day one, y'all heard her episode, which was last Christmas time. It was around this. I think it was Thanksgiving time. Yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah, yeah, it was good. And um, so we didn't have a lot of common ground for a long time until we were adults because we had such an age gap. But the Muppets was one thing we both liked, and we would watch this every year. Every year, even when like we would she would go to college and come home, we would watch it. So I always have fond memories of watching that. Like, this is something I could always, when I was little, convince her to watch with me, yeah, which was a big deal because she didn't usually do a lot of things with me. Yeah, because you're a little sister. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, and we've talked about this before with the Muppets, how they transcend generations and at this point multiple generations. Yeah. Because I put a little note, we have a dry erase board in our kitchen, and this was like Friday morning, and I was like, tonight, Muppet Christmas Carol is happening, we're gonna have snacks, optional, whatever. And like one of my kids wasn't gonna be there till a little later in the evening, was like, wait for me. And then other people like brought out blankets and like we all watched all that. Wow, we haven't had one of those in I don't even know how long. Yeah. It wasn't it wasn't all seven of us, it was oh, five of us. That's still we were down two, but but still still pretty good. And and that's the thing. Like, my 11-year-old who still is into like you know, kids stuff more than most 11-year-olds, I'd say. She loved it. But then my like child who's about to graduate from high school loved it. My husband, who doesn't like anything, yeah, really, watched it with us and loved it. But he likes the Muppets, right? He loves the Muppets, which is funny because he doesn't like slapstick humor. I know. And the Muppets are. And I was thinking too, like, I don't really like cartoons, but I like the Muppets. Well, the because they're not cartoons, they're puppets. I know, but I feel like the reason yeah, maybe because they're more human-like or something. I don't know. Because the reason I don't really like cartoons is because it's so it just feels so removed from real life. Supposed to. I know, and and that's why I don't like it. But then I love the Muppets. That cracks me up. I don't understand. You don't have to. Okay, good. Nobody asks, I'm gonna figure that out today. And we can agree to that. And listeners, I hope you love this movie too. I have an important question. Oh, let's hear. Who is the Muppet that you identify with? If you were a Muppet, who would you be? Oh god. I know who I'd say for you. That's what we should do, who we think and who the person thinks. So but let me hear your answer for yourself first because I can put an idea in your head. Well, we should say it at the same time. So hold on, let me think you might be. Okay. I would say Kermit. I was gonna say Rolf, the because he's a musician. Oh, okay. That's a good one. I would just say Kermit just because he's like always trying to get things rolling and moving forward and not having much success. That's not true, because he does in the end, usually. Yeah, that's true. That's true. But he is the one that usually has to stay level-headed while everybody else is going crazy. Correct. So maybe I more aspire to be Kermit than than anything. And I uh I relate to when he's like doing his best and it's still not working out that part. And then every now and then he'll have a freak out. Oh yeah, with his little arms flailing. Oh yeah, oh yeah, all the limbs going. I feel that too. Okay, I know my I know mine for you. Oh, well, Gonzo's my favorite, just because he's so weird, and like you can't really put him in a box. I just love him. I I would say Gonzo, probably, yeah, because of those reasons. And he's just like, he's almost it's weird because he stands out, but he's also kind of a chameleon. Like he can be really any character, like he can be really funny, he can be serious, he can be like, I don't know. It's I just think you're definitely a gonzo. I love that. I love it. I also, but then I was watching it and I was like, wait, am I more animal? Because chaos. I was like, I think it depends on the day. Sometimes yes, sometimes maybe then, but then also uh yeah, because I'm not a Miss Piggy. I'm not, I'm not that I don't think either of us. All girls are like wanting to be a Miss Piggy, but I'm not right. I'm not either. I'm just not sadly, sadly. That's okay. We're not Divas, we're not, we're not, in case you can't tell. Looking at us, we might be so confused to that to hear that from us that the two people you are looking at right now are not Divas uh yet. But anyway, yet all right. Well, um, thank you, listeners. I hope that this is one of your favorite movies. If for some reason you've never watched it and this is the first time you've ever heard of it, run now. Turn this off, go watch it. It's on Disney Plus and watch the extended version. Yes, because you have to see the song. You gotta see the song. And then uh, listeners, let us know which Muppet you identify with.

unknown: 1:07:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:25

I'd be interested to hear that. And stay with us the rest of the holiday season, and we will see you next time on Generation in Between. Bye.