Dawson's Creek S4, E13 & E14: Ski Trips and First Times

We continue to talk about the age/life phase differences between Gretchen and Dawson, especially when Dawson is stamped as "under 21." The senior class ski trip brings its own host of teenage shenanigans. Will Pacey and Joey take the next step in their relationship? Will Dawson make the right end-of-life choice for Mr. Brooks?

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Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open: Costumes And Chaos
• 6:39 Season 4 Check-In: “Hopeless”
• 12:20 Age Gaps And Power Imbalances
• 21:00 Fashion Flashbacks And Body Talk
• 27:30 Mr. Brooks And Autonomy
• 40:10 “A Winter’s Tale” Setup

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Dawson's Creek Rewatch. We always used to say it's our nostalgic and problematic series. We just kind of stopped doing that. But also we still talk about it. We do. Yeah. Yeah. We are on season four, episode 13. We did not do one last week because our scheduling, uh, schedule wait, what? Our recording schedule has is a little twisted the next few weeks. And I completely zoned and thought I watched it and I didn't. Yeah. And Katie like rushed to watch them. And then I get here and I get out my notes, and I was like, oh, these are from the last time. She literally opened her notebook to a blank page. It was like a cartoon. It really was. And her eyes bugged out. And she was like, oh my God, I didn't watch it. But like those of you that watched, I was in the Dumbledore costume. So I was like, cool. Let's not record. Let's get this beard and wig off and fine with it. You like the robe. I like the robe. Yeah. I should bring it back. You should just wear a robe. It'll just it'll just be my costume for the podcast. Oh, while we're talking costumes, yeah. Katie guess what resurface for me to wear in Christmas Carol. Is it the bonnet? Well, not yet. It's the the dress and or the shirt and okay. Everyone, last time uh Katie and I were in Christmas Carol together. Well, we were on a show last Christmas too, but the two years ago, yes, um, my costume, we laughed at each other for maybe half an hour. We couldn't stop laughing. I mean, listen, the costumes were period appropriate, 100%. We just looked really hilarious. Yes. We just looked funny. Um, so I go to try on costumes like a week or so ago when Victoria sent you that picture. Yes. And Jared was like, well, Dom wanted um y'all to just like put wear what you wore last time if it still fits. And he's like, but I don't really like this. It was that plaid skirt or whatever. I was like, okay, I show up yesterday and it's on my rack. Oh no! And I was like, okay. So I put it on, the skirt still fits, but the jacket's too small, which makes no sense to me. Because I was like, if anything got to be too small, which could I mean it's been two years. Yeah, sure. So I was like, sizes change, I don't know if the skirt's gonna fit. The skirt fit, but the jacket I could not button. It was weird. I wonder if they've tailored it for something else. Maybe, maybe they tailored it for another show.

unknown: 2:36

What?

SPEAKER_00: 2:37

So yeah, that's odd that like, yeah. But anyway, anyway, the thing that we laughed at for half an hour has not you get to laugh at me again for the second time. Because it's back. Are you wearing the same wig? I don't know if I'm gonna be in a wig. Okay. Because I don't have a weird color hair. Although I can't do much with this hair. Like, women didn't have short hair then, right? And you can't really pull it back. Can you pull it back into like a little bun or something? Oh, it's definitely little. Yeah, I pull my hair back all the time. Okay. I just need to like I mean for sage. Hold on. I mean for stage. Katie has like long hair prejudice because she'd be like, I'd be like so excited that my ponytails get long. She's like, that is the smallest ponytail. No, she doesn't say it like this, but this is how I hear it. That is the smallest ponytail I ever seen. Literally, it's touching my neck. For those girls out there who used to have short hair, you had short hair once in your life. She just dumb forgot. Also, I have thin ass hair that is falling out by the handfuls every day. Miss lustrious locks of her hair. Be like, that's the smallest bunny tail I'm trying with all my might. Okay. Also, if I pull my hair back, I do have a hair piece. So I will definitely remember the one I wore to the golden. I think that would look great. Pop it right in. I think it's a good one. Because listen, if they tell me to do a bun, it's gonna look like a chihuahua tail. It's gonna be the smallest bun I've ever seen. Literally, see? You know how like little girls have those fake buns they pan over. That's what I need. Like, yeah, like dance kids wear those. There you go. That's what I'll have. You can be a dance kid. That's but I don't know. I'm hoping they'll just give me a wig because it's so much easier. It is. So much easier. It is. They never let me wear a wig and I'm good. Okay, get whatever. I'm so ticked because my hair's so pretty, they won't let me wear a wig. It it's not even that. It's I guess I'm flattered. We don't cover your hair with a wig, but it's so much work. It is, I think the more, and when you have a lot of hair, it's even more. So like the curling and the braiding and the I mean, short hair too has takes a lot of work. I'm trying to not be prejudiced. I'm just kidding. She don't really have she just she done forgets. I do. And also, you don't have thinning hair. So that's a whole those of you out there who are my age, and there's a lot of us. Listen, it's a it's a beast, guys. I'll eventually have to cut it all off again, and that's fine. I'm just trying to see if enough will regenerate. In the meantime. I I said I'll give it a year. I like how long your hair is right now. Well, it's really pretty. It's not pretty, it's thin and gnarly, but thanks. She's just trapped makeup for her. Like, I love your hair. I mean, I'm starting to see bald spots. I mean, I see that too. Like my part line. Oh, you see my bald spots. No, you now have three. No, no. I notice it on myself. Oh, mostly like my part line. Even if I part it differently, it's just like getting wider and wider and wider. And I'm like, okay, so there's a lot of hair growing around that, but like it's still, yeah. It happens. And I'm I mean, I knew I was destined for it because my sister has thinning hair, my mom had thinning hair. Nobody ever went all the way bald, but I'll probably be the listen. If that happens, that's fine. There's worse things in life. Absolutely. I have shaved my head before, I can do it again, and everybody knows I got enough wigs to wear. So that's right. It's it might be easier. I oh, it's definitely easier to have short. When your hair, okay, here's the thing about hair, and then we'll talk about Dawson's Creek. Sounds good. The thing about short hair is once it's your chin length or shorter, it's much easier. But if it's in between your chin and your shoulder, it's so much more work. Yeah, I I could see that. And then once it gets past your shoulder, it's easier again. Right. But there's like different so if I do end up cutting my hair short again, it will be chin length or shorter because that in-between zone, that's not it. It is such a pain because then you have to fix it. Yeah. Unless you have really, really curly hair and you But I don't have that. So anyway, hair adventure. Welcome to our series Hair Tears with Danny and Katie. Uh, this is season four, episode 13. Back on track. This is why they love us, though, because we don't ever talk about things we're supposed to. They're like, we don't need to watch Dawson's to listen to this. Um, the name of the episode was called Hopeless. Uh, Dawson is less uncomfortable about meeting Gretchen's friends. Joey and Pacey are enlisted to help Drew get through an important date. Weirdest piece storyline ever. I thought that was so strange. What? It was so weird. Because Valentine's like, Joey, I'm assigning you and you better not mess up to go on this date with my son and this girl. And the lady hates her. Yeah, so why would well, I guess that's part of this the plot line that like you see, well, she must not hate her. She just gives her a hard time, but she must not hate her if she wants her to go on a date with her son. But that's so weird. Yeah, that whole piece was weird. I don't like him either. He's annoying. Get out, go away. Um, speaking of hair, the first thing I wrote was Pacey's hair is growing back. Hooray. It is, it looks really good. Yeah, it looks really good. It's like, hooray. Um, speaking of fashion, Gretchen's crop top sweater and the low rise pants. So good. And of course, she looked amazing in it. And let me tell you, y'all, as someone whose body shape has all even in my young days, Katie also cannot sympathize on this because I seen pictures of her showing her little 20-year-old midrift. Um, I've always had like a belly pooch. That's just the way I'm designed. I hated duh that fashion trend. Because I could not wear it and there was no other options. Right. And when you naturally have a belly pooch, even when you're thin and have a belly pooch, low rice pants just make it so uncomfortable. Yeah. Like it is so uncomfortable. Totally. Because then your tummy just like is hanging over unless and it's not like a pregnant belly where everything hangs over your waistline. Like, it is just measure. I hated it. I hated it. I hated it. It was really like everywhere. Everywhere the only thing you could buy or wear. And talk about only one kind of body that can wear that comfortably. Comfortably. And I don't mean like like feeling secure. I mean like physically comfortable. And look, anyone can wear anything. But yeah. No, I just mean like physically having a waistline digging with your stomachs hanging. Oh, it's just not comfortable. Just from a sensory perspective, yeah. It's painful. You feel it. But I saw that and I was like, oh, I hated that then and I hated it now. Right. Now I'm not hating on you if you Katie wore it and she looked so cute. That was on her tanning bed days. So she had a nice bronze. I definitely don't look cute in that picture because of the tan. But I did like that shirt. It was like a tube top, like a like a Hawaiian pattern tube top. But I can't look at that photo and be like, oh, I look good. Because of the tan. Because of that, yeah. Yeah, the skin damage. She means the skin damage that she was inflicting upon herself. Yes. Yes, that is what I mean. Anyways, what else do I have? I don't know. What do you think? She has four sentences. I do. But but I'm gonna say them, darn it. Um, there's that Mrs. Robinson reference where Gretchen, like, say say something. Either he calls her Mrs. Robinson or she says, I'm not like Mrs. Robinson. It's we're only three years apart. Oh. But it's we're like really drilled into us that she's 21 and he's but he's not 18 yet. Yeah. So there must be like four years. Yeah. She says three years, but you're right. Because he goes to the club and they say you're he's like, I'm 17. Yeah. I mean, yeah, listen, okay, I have this later in my note. I had a lot of notes on these two episodes. Had lots of thoughts. Okay. Let's talk about the age difference here. First of all, Dawson and giving that lip to his mother about how he wants to do what he wants to do, and et cetera, et cetera. Um, excuse me, you are 17. Right. Living at home. Yeah, when he's like, You are a minor. He's like, oh, suddenly now you care what I'm doing. And he's like, I'm going out to a club. I'll be, I don't know what time I'll be back. Bitch, please. No. Oh, no. No. Um, and also Gail is right when she talks about them being in two different seasons of life, which was made clear when they went out. Yeah, because he had to get that stamp. Yeah. The under-21 stamp. Yeah. And her friends, let me tell you something. They were very oddly understanding of it. Because if I'm telling you, if I was back when I was 21, if I would have brought around a 17-year-old high school student to go out with me and my friends, my friends would have been like, get out of here. Yeah. Yeah. What? I agree. That was weird. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. And it was, like you said, made very clear that he's in a different because he truly is in a different life phase than her. Also, it's illegal. Also, that. Yeah. Yes. So there's that. It's also illegal. And oh, her friend. Did you notice her friend Jessica was in the craft? The movie. No. Oh, wait. Now I can see her. Did she have the curly hair? Yes. Yes. Oh, you're right. I was like, where do I know her from? I was like, oh, she was in the craft. That's right. I don't remember her name in the craft. But anyway. Uh, I just, I just, I, I, everybody is entitled to have their feelings on age differences. And they don't matter when you're older. They don't. Troy and I are four years apart. Same exact age difference. But when you're 17 at home, especially a boy who's 17, and I'm not trying, I don't want to put gender stereotypes, but it is a scientific fact. Boys' brains do mature a little bit later than girls. It just is perhaps just the way it be. Also, it's illegal. Right. That's my main thing. Like if it was flipped the other way, it would still be illegal. Right. And a thing. Right. But it's just, I don't understand. Like, it just seems so predatory to me for her to be dating him. It just does. Like, yeah. I mean, yes, I also think like it's a comfort thing for her. I don't think she would date Dawson if she had never left college. And like he was there. But she's home now. Yeah. So she's kind of reverting to that, like, I'm life like it was there. I'm I'm not saying it's right, but so when she's with the friends in this episode, you kind of see college her. Yeah. And how she was or is or whatever. But you don't really see that back in Cape Side. She's different. And so that's, I guess, what kind of makes them click in that setting. Well, I guess maybe what bothers me the most is that you're in two different phases of life. You know? Like, I even I worry about that with our kids. Like Caden's in college, Amelia's a senior. Right. And Amelia is a very mature young lady. And they there's only, I mean, she'll be 18 soon. I'll I'll breathe a sigh of relief when she turns 18. We all will. We all will. It's coming. We'll all we'll all breathe a little easier. But I think about that because they are in two different seasons, and that can be really hard. It is. And it's not even they're not even that far age-wise, age-wise or years in school-wise, but they're very different seasons. Correct. Absolutely. If Dawson was in college and was a freshman in college and she was a senior in college, I would not feel as weird about that. Number one, because he'd be 18. And number two, they're in the same season. Right. But high school and college, or even if you don't go to college, if you go do something. High school and not in post school. Post-high school living in your parents' house life. It's different. It's very different. I will say I think they were trying to show that in this episode. Right. But I don't think that, like, in the end. That it really changed anything. Yeah. It was more like her making concessions for him. Like, well, all this is true, but I still like you. I know it's weird. Which is kind of odd. I also thought the part about the weird to go back to Pacey and Joey on the date with Drew and the girl. Um, that whole storyline I didn't love. Oh. How it's like, oh, I shouldn't have slept with him, and it was like very cautionary tale. Yeah. Like, I and then they're like, you slept with her, and now you need to treat her better. And then Drew's just like, you're right. I'm like, what is this? I hello? I don't know. Like you treat, you treat people, you treat women or whoever you're dating or pretending that you like respectfully, no matter what level of intimacy you've been at. And then, like, I don't know. It was weird. I was trying to say. I don't know. But it's I don't get it. It did not be good. Uh also, can I tell you how much I cried in a few of these episodes when Mr. Brooks um was needing help in his chair and he like held on to Dawson. Yeah. Yes. Okay. And then like at the end of the episode, like the whole Mr. Brooks end of like the storyline just makes me so emotional. Yeah. It makes me sad because he was like this lonely old man who did not have a glimpse of comfort until the very end of his life. It's so sad. Oh. But thank goodness he has it. But yeah, all the stuff where, because I thought it was weird at the beginning of the episode, but then you figure it out at the end, where he wants like Dawson to get his medicine. And then um Grams is like, oh, the home health care place hasn't been paid. And I was like, oh, is there like some weird money thing going on? Like, are we gonna find out something strange? But then at the end you realize it's because he's wanting to go ahead and let nature run its course, yeah, and he's not really fighting his disease anymore. And that's why he's not paying for the next month because he's not expecting to be there and how he's kind of not conned, but got got Dawson to sort of be a power of attorney by picking up his meds, which will come into play later. And but it's that whole, and we've talked about this before, it's that whole, I think, in relationship to Dawson's Creek, uh, end-of-life dignity and end-of-life decisions. Yeah. Like how much people should be able to decide when they go. Well, it's that's well, as you can imagine, I had a hard time with a lot of this because uh of my mom passing. I think you should be able to have bodily autonomy as as long as you're mentally capable, right? Um, and if you're decide if you're in pain and you don't feel well and you're however old you are, and there's not a big prognosis, I think the humane thing is to let someone make that choice for themselves. Um, and I'm not trying to be controversial, that's just what I think. But it was hard, and we'll get into it when we get to the next episode. Um, because when you are left with you have to make the choice for somebody else, and you're not sure what they want, because my stepdad just went through this. Uh that's a lot to hold on to. That's and he's a kid, and Dawson is a kid. We'll get into it when we'll get into it. But oh, also off that note, the last thing I wrote was Toby be kind of a low-key creeps. Oh, I hate Toby. Toby and Drew have to go. And I hate that they're setting it up to somehow eventually make Jack kind of like him. I just like Jack does not like him. I know. Period. Move on. Leaving him alone. You don't have to have some sort of like arc where now all of a sudden, oh, I just I guess I shouldn't know him that well. And now I think he's great. No, no. Some people you're just not attracted to. Oh my god. I wrote that as my first sentence on the next episode. So let's jump in. Okay, let's go. Do you have anything else? No. Okay. She said, no. She said, nope, I got four sentences. Okay, so season four, episode 14, a winter's tale summary is as his friends wrestle with sex during a senior class trip. Dawson discovers he's been given the power over Mr. Book's life. So the first thing I wrote was what Katie just said. And I said, Why does Jen keep on bugging Jack about Toby? He is not into him. It's okay. You don't sometimes you don't know why you're not attracted to someone. You're just not. And that's okay. And I mean, there's a lot of reasons to not be attracted to Toby. He's a creepster. And he's rude. And he's older too. Yes. He's not in high school quieter. Keep doing this. Yeah. And I feel like, okay, as a friend, like in my life, I've tried to maybe set people up with friends or been like, oh, you should meet so and so because I think they might be a great couple. But that you take that so far. I know. If they don't like each other, nah. Then like you move on. Right. You know? And look, you don't know why you're not attracted to somebody sometimes. And it's and sometimes you don't know why you are. Sometimes you're like, what? This person is not my type. I can think of several people in my life, in my previous life of dating, where I'm like, what in the world? Why do I want to be around this person? I do not understand what my body chemistry is doing. This makes no sense. Right. And that is fine. And that's okay too. But yeah, I don't like that she's and it's under the guise of her like being a good friend. Yeah, like, like she, like, you know what it is? I think what bothers me is that it's implying she knows better for him than he does. Yeah. That. And I just don't think this is that situation. Yeah, agreed. Yeah. Um, okay, so they go on the senior trip. Yeah. First of all, what? They all go skiing and stay at a resort, a bunch of teenagers. And like, how low-key bad is the chaperone where everybody just ends up somehow sleeping with in the same room with whoever they want and nobody checks? Nobody checks. Listen, I know it was the late 90s, but there was still plenty of uh guarding of chaperones even then. Um, why did Pacey have his stuff in a grocery bag? That was weird. And Joey had like three bags. I know. What is what? I mean, you're telling me you don't have a bag? Like you bring a grocery bag? I mean, it is very pacey, but also like but borrow a bag. Yeah. Carry. Right. Or probably Joey would be like, give me that, and just like stick it in one of her bags. It's so weird. Okay, so so then we get to the part where Dawson realizes like Mr. Brooks is um on life sport and basically he's just being kept alive. Finds out he has power of return. Well, they I don't know what it's medical power of return. Medical guardianship or medical authority or something. But here's a legal loophole. Nobody can you can't do that if you're under 18. You have to be 18. Absolutely. And I remember this because when my dad died, my parents were divorced. He was not, he was engaged, but he was not married yet. My sister was 18, so she was his legal next of kin. Okay. So she had to be the one to like sign all these papers and stuff. Yeah, it was it was awful. It was anyway, won't go into that. But I was like, if you are 17, you legally can't do that. I I And they're like, it's a state law. I'm like, but it doesn't matter what state you're in, you're still not a legal adult. You're not an adult. Yeah, like you're not like if my next of kin is my kid, but my kid is six, then you have to guardian or something. Right, right. It's somebody else. I I think you said you didn't watch arrested development, the TV show. I did not. The doctor in this scene is one of the main characters from Arrested Development. But this is pre-arrested development by a couple years, and um, and he's just like the silliest goofball. If you if you're a fan listeners, it's the guy who plays Buster, the silly little brother, and like little brother. He's an adult, but he's like acts like a little kid, basically. So it was just funny to see him like playing a serious role when he's like in my head, he's that character from the rest of the world. Yeah, yeah. And his voice is very distinct because I heard the voice first and I was like, You're like, excuse me. Is that him? I can't think of his name. Oh well, maybe I should have written it down. Maybe I did. Maybe you didn't find it so much. Someone has so many notebooks, and she's like, I can't find my notebook. And then she's like, Well, I found it. Yeah, it's not hardly what to do. Pay for Frozen, finalized cast. Frozen ended a week and a half ago, guys. Well, check that off. Yeah, you know what? That's gonna feel really good. There's nothing more satisfying than crossing stuff off a list. In fact, when I was a new mom and I was struggling with postpartum depression and anxiety a lot, and I was seeing therapists, one of the many times I've gone to therapy. Um, I would get really fr overwhelmed because Troy was deployed, also. Let's throw that into the mix. Lots going on. Um, and she was like, I said, I feel like I just am overwhelmed. And she's like, make a list. She because she asked me, Are you a list person? And I said, Oh, 100%. And like when I don't get to cross all my things, I am so stressed. Like, because then I have more I have to do the next day, and like more I have to do the next day. And I was the only one there, like doing the things. And she was like, Okay, so make your list just a little different, write things like take a shower or eat two meals, because three is a lot when you have a newborn. Sometimes you can't, like, you know. And so I did. I would write like the dumbest shit on there just so I could have at the end of the day feel like, okay, I'm all right. It was like a little mental trick for myself. I think that's great. I know. And I it even nowadays I'll still Troy's like, why are you writing that down? I'm like, well, it sounds silly, but like it also, if I don't write something down, it will not happen. It will not happen. I will not remember to do it. I I have like like those little mini post-its. My family will tell me something and I'm like, go put it on a mini post-it and stick it somewhere. If you don't write it down, I will not remember. I will say similar things or be like text it to me. Because even at my screenshot um thing, you know, because then I'll go through later. See, yeah, I do that too, but I sometimes forget to go through my screenshots. But like if I have it's almost like I have to touch it and like know. Totally. And you know that that you operate it's so annoying. That's why I still use a day planner. I still have one in there right now. She's like, I'm moving all the notes over, but you know what? I'm not gonna move over, frozen. It's over, okay, guys. Or maybe I should finish frozen check. Done. I didn't know. I did it's good to write film mark stuff off a list. It really does. Okay, so let's talk about this Mr. Brooks thing and then move on because it's really hard. That whole thing was tough to watch just because uh my mom died this summer, and I was there, and I've never been in a room with somebody who's passed, and it's uh not something I ever want to do again. My sister is a nurse, and so she has been in the room with people who I wouldn't say many, but right, you know. Um but you know, we we see these scenes in movies, and you think as soon as they unplug them, for lack of sorry, I that sounds insensitive, but as soon as they go off life support, it's like two seconds later they're dead. That's not how it really works most of the time. And I didn't know this, and I'm so thankful that my sister was there to kind of explain it because it's creepy. And sorry, I think it's creepy. It is because people breathe weird when they're it's like and you think, are they waking up or you don't know, and like it seems like they're in pain, but they're not most of anyway. It's just a very yucky experience. I don't recommend it, but I'm I mean, I'm glad I was there, sort of. It's a whole thing. But watching this was hard because I feel like they they made they showed like Dawson had this hard choice, and like Grams tried to help him and like all this stuff, but I've then I was thinking about Grams, and this is the second person in a pretty short amount of time to she's had to watch. She's a nurse too, right? So, in theory, well, true, not not that that makes it any easier when it's your own loved one, but a little more accustomed to like how it goes, yeah. And it's just I thought about that with my stepdad too, because his first wife um passed away from cancer, and then you know, and then he watches my mom pass, and I'm just like, I could not, and then you know, he was an only child, so when his mom and dad died, he had to be the one like so we go to the funeral home, and he's like he's like, here I am again. And I'm just like, I don't think I could handle all that. It's a lot, more than once, once is a lot, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I was just this episode had my brain doing lots of thinking, and it was just I I don't I didn't want to be thinking about all that. But I I feel like um if you're ever in that situation, just know usually when they unplug people, they don't just automatically go. Not that it can't happen, but it's it's more like I think, right? That that you're letting the body take itself, and then that takes however amount of time, depending how it happens, whether it's the heart or the lungs or something else that eventually ends the life. Yeah. But so you're just saying we're not going to keep that thing or these things going um in a like artificial way anymore. Right. It doesn't mean that it turns right off. Right. And sometimes, you know, they take people like my mom was intubated once.

SPEAKER_01: 29:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 29:05

They took her off and she came back.

SPEAKER_01: 29:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 29:09

And then I remember that. Got bad again, and then they had to do that. It's like a whole thing. It was like she was like a month of hospital stuff. And so that happens sometimes where you can take people off and think they're gonna pass away and they don't. And totally. So yeah, I I sort of had that experience with my grandmother because she was on hospice, and I actually lived here in Florida, but I just happened to be visiting with my youngest, who was a toddler at the time. I'm sorry, not my youngest at the time, she was my youngest. My oldest daughter was a toddler at the time. And so just while I was there, they put her on hospice because she had fallen at her assisted living and instead of staying at the hospital, and she and it only took a few days because she wasn't hooked up to anything. It was the end, but they brought her home to pass. You know, there and they weren't sure. They're like, it could be a month or two, it could be a couple days. It's the hardest for the family. It's the hardest. Yeah. It's the worst. And I wasn't gonna stay that long, but it just so happened it was fast. And so, kind of what you said, she started for lack of a better term, dying before she died. You know, it was like four or five hours of having trouble breathing. Again, she was medicated um with pain medication, of course, of course, but not like no supports to keep all the organs functioning and stuff. And it does, it I remember I was, I don't know, 29, 30, something like that. So I wasn't like super young, but it was the first time I'd experienced that. And I remember being like, oh, it's not just like no, because you think it's gonna be instant. And that's why I like looked at my sister and I was like, why is this still going? And honestly, it didn't take my mom that long. Yeah, but I it feels long, you know. And my sister's like, it's not, you know, and my sister, and like, you know, I was glad she was in there because the the the hospital staff tries to give you as much privacy as they can give you, like, you know, once they know their job is complete. Um, but they didn't hadn't turned off the monitors, so it they kept going off. And my sister, thank God, she was in there. She's like, I'm just turning this shit off because it doesn't like it doesn't matter. So she just turned the sound off, but she was watching her heart rate and her respiratory, and she would she would tell me, like, all right, it's gonna be like not much longer, and this is what's happening, like lack of better terms. Like, she'd be like, Yeah, it's gonna be like that's comforting though. It wasn't comforting, it was just good to know. I I don't like medical things, I don't I I don't know. I'm glad I was there and I'm also not, if that makes sense. I no, I get it. Yeah, so kind of a I guess it's not funny, but it's a little funny. That story I just told about my grandma. So that it went into the nighttime hours. So my mom and I decided we would trade off like sitting with her. And so my mom sat with her, and I I think I set a phone alarm or something. I got up at like two and she was still in there, and my grandma was like quieter, but still, yeah. So I'm in there, so I kind of doze off sitting with her, and I wake up, it's maybe like 6, 6:30 in the morning, and I look at her and she's still, but I'm like, I don't know what's going on. Yeah, so I like got my hand in front of her mouth. I'm like, and then I like don't want to touch her too much, and I'm like it, it's not funny, but I was like, Did she die? Did she not? Well, because you don't know. I go, and there's no nurse there at that time or anything, you're not at the hospital. So I go wake up my mom. So then she comes in. We took a piece of paper, we had it like in front of her face. It's not moving. My dad, like, we're like doing all this and like trying to be gentle. He's like, What are you guys doing? And we were like, We think she might have died. We're like, we don't know. And so he just walks up, puts his two fingers on her like pulse. He's like, She has no pulse, she's passed away. Oh my god. And we're standing there with like a piece of paper. So we did kind of laugh about it for a while after that. I mean, it wasn't funny, but it was like, what? Who put these two idiots in charge of figuring out when she passed away? I told you the story of my stepdad and the phone. Yes. Oh my god, for those of y'all who may not have heard that. Yeah, you have to laugh and in the everything is so tense. Yes, and so hard. You have to laugh. You have to, or it's just miserable. Yeah. I mean, it's hard and miserable anyway. It is, and you have to find a way through it. Uh, yeah, my stepdad, we were trying to, I got the idea to like play some music because it's just really weird just being in a room waiting for someone to die. So I was playing music, and um my mom loved the Beatles, so I was playing the Beatles, and then after a while he's like, Okay, well, I'm gonna play her a song. That's still so funny to me. Oh god. Yeah, so he goes through, of course, you know, he's 76, so like phones, whatever. He's going through, forgets his thing. And we're this is also kind of funny. We're just laying it on her because what else are we gonna do? So he lays it down and it starts some song that I'm like looking at my sister, and I'm like, I love the song. And he goes, Oh shit, that's the wrong song. So he picks up the phone and he goes, Siri. I need you to play Linda Ronstadt, and we're like crying laughing. And he's so loud. And it's like, you can't even type it, you're like Siriing. Like I was like, I was I need Linda Ronstadt. He doesn't even know the song, so then he gets finds it, and we're all like, Is this it? Are we doing this again? Are we sure? Or this is the one she liked, or then my mom's friend was in there and she put on some song, and it was like a um it was a pretty song, I guess, but it was like a like a churchy song, like a religious song. I don't know. My sister and I were like, I don't think she would like this. But lady, if it comforts you, go ahead. I mean, I don't know. Maybe she would, I don't know. But anyway, moving on. Let's okay, so that's going to be that was just sad and hard. And let's talk now about the sex storyline. Because we have death and sex in this episode. That's pretty much it. Pretty much okay. So I started off feeling really bad for Joey because it's a hundred percent literally okay for her to not want to have sex and to be scared and not know why she's scared.

unknown: 35:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 35:29

And she's 17 years old, she's never done it. Like, and Pacey's being understanding and stuff, but why are we making such a story out of this? Like, duh, of course she's scared. Like, and of course, he should be understanding. I mean, there's no story there. Yeah. I just watched and I hate that at the end they changed it and they ended up doing it. I didn't like that because it made it seem like, oh, Joey was wrong and had a change of heart and now she's gonna do it. Right. It did make it seem like that. It made it seem like when she was feeling like that, though that was not the real thing she wanted. It was anxiety or something. Yes, which it was maybe a little bit. Well, maybe, but I think it was also really how she felt. Yeah, and then all of a sudden it went away. Because they were on a romantic ski trip, but then she was like, all of a sudden she was okay and like taking his clothes off. And okay, also, this was so funny. I was on my couch watching this on a Saturday, and I told Cooper before I started the episode, I said, I'm watching Dawson's Creek. There's probably gonna be some stuff in here that you don't want to watch with your mom because he is 13. Okay. Yeah, and I said, So awkward. I said, just know that. I mean, I'm not gonna tell you not to watch it because it's rated TV 14, so fine. But also, you may not want to be in here. And when that scene came on, I'm like, oh my god, like I'm feeling awkward. He's just sitting there on his phone. I don't even know if he's paying attention. But I'm like, okay, please get up and leave. Get up and leave. And then I'm like telling myself, don't be the weird mom. Don't be the weird mom. Don't draw attention to it. And I was like, just sit here, look the other way. Because listen, I I don't, I don't feel like that's not he can't, he can see that. I just, it's awkward when you are with your children and their sex scenes. It's awkward. I don't care how old I'm I told you about the time I tried to pause Deadpool or I was trying to turn it off, but I paused it on like a really inappropriate move. And I'm like screaming, like, don't look, don't look, don't look. And my it was my girls, I think my son was in there too, but they were like little, they were like all under like age nine, eight or nine. And then everyone's like, why would you even think you could watch that? And I'm like, I don't know anything about any of these movies, especially then, because I was just in the midst of young children everywhere. But I'm like, and I'm like like literally screaming, like, ah, no, cover, leave. Everyone, and finally I'm like, everyone leave the room, but don't look at the TV on your way out. And I can't get the technology to work. It was like so bad. It's so funny. Like, I mean, there are parents who are totally chill, and like, I'm not saying he can't watch it, I'm just saying, right, watching it with them next to me is like I don't I don't want to sit next to my parents. Well, they're dead, but like I don't want to sit next. I didn't as an adult. Me either. Let alone anyway. Um, that happened to me one time with an audiobook. Oh for anybody who's read the Court of Thorns and Roses series, is that what it's called? The Court of Thorns and Roses. Is that right? Hold on. Am I saying that wrong? The Sarah J. Mass books, they're great. I call them, although they're they're fantasy books, but I call them they're kind of like fairy porn. Yeah, I love that. And I want to make sure I'm saying it right because it's been a few years. Court of Yeah, Thorns and Roses. Okay. Um, so I was listening, and for those of y'all who've read the books, it was like, I think it was like the third book. So they get steamier as you go. And I was listening to it on on audio, and my my old car, my Bluetooth was weird, and it would like do, it would like hook up weird, or sometimes whatever. Cooper and Caden, and one or two of Caden's friends were in the car, and this was a few years ago, so they were young, like he was my middle school age. Oh god, and Cooper was like young elementary, and they're in the car, and my Bluetooth accidentally picked up my audiobook, and it was on like a crazy part. And I I was like, oh my god, same thing. I couldn't figure out, I couldn't get it turned off. I and I turn finally I just turned the car off. And I just turned the car. And they were like, What are you listening? Like, I don't think it absorbed to them what it was, but I knew what it was coming, and I was like, oh my god! Like I was like, close your ears, get out of the car, everybody. That my husband, I think I've told you my husband listens to Howard Stern. Oh, yeah. Sometimes when I get in the car, like on serious, it'll just be like loud, and it'll just be like his voice, like saying the most inappropriate thing. And I get so annoyed, but like my kids are older now. Well, yeah, and then my littlest wouldn't even notice. But yeah, that's oh my gosh. It was hilarious. So I just and Troy was like, Why didn't you just turn it down? I was like, I don't know because you panic. Like, right. He's like, just turn the volume. Just turn it down. Same with me. Like but I also didn't want to lose my place because you know when you like do the app or the thing. Anyway, I get panicked and I turned the car off and I turned my phone off, and then I turned the car off. You're like, Well, we should be safe now. Maybe. I mean, okay, I love it. So, and then I hate that they I I did not remember the Jen and Jack thing where they got drunk together. Me either. And they I don't remember this episode though. I think this was a part where I wasn't watching as much, but yeah. Yeah, and I they were like, Oh, let's just have sex. And I'm like, Okay, and I mean she stopped it or whatever. And like, I mean, good for her. Yeah, she said, I we're not doing this because you're drunk and lonely. I was like, Yes. But also, like, Jen, you don't want to do it either, right? I know. That's weird. It was weird. Does that mean you want to, but because he's drunk and lonely, you don't want to? But I'm just glad that like either way. Because of the system, because you can't make a clear decision, like you're not that was good fully, fully aware of what you're doing. Um yeah, the j the pacey, and then also, okay. Pacey and Joey, and they're a little first time. I can pretty much that's probably a very slim part of the population where they're first time and high school is like that. Is like that. Yeah, yeah. And we've we've talked about that before. I like how glamorized in movies or the show or whatever. And but they, I mean, you haven't watched the next episodes yet, so we'll talk about when we get there. But they do go into a little bit more of the the like pitfalls or whatever. Okay, all right. Awkward. Well, good. And I get to watch that this week because we're meeting again this week to record. I know exciting. On a Saturday, we're gonna be all weirded out. Who knows what will happen. So if you're listening to this episode, make sure you listen to the next two because well, when they come out, well, why wouldn't they? Well, make sure you keep listening. Keep listening. They're not live yet. But when they are, make sure the number one rule of following a podcast is please make sure you listen to the next episode. I was gonna tell you, I actually have fallen behind on my true crime podcasts. Yeah. Because anytime I'm like in a car or cleaning or whatever, I'm listening to music for the show I'm gonna be in. Oh, got it constantly. And so I'm just like walking my dogs, listening to it. So all the normal times I would like listen to like an episode or two. I'm not, I'm like, wow, I've got quite a backlog. Oh, how's that going with your emotions? Because that's heavy. We're not really in the deep yet. We did do a sing-through and a read-through of the show, the show's next to normal, and that got a little like toward the end, we were all like, oh, this is so heavy, and people were crying and stuff, people including me. But otherwise, okay, I don't know. I this, I'm sure there's a lot to this that I have to sort out probably with a mental health professional. But sometimes um, anything that has to do with like that would have to do with my mom, because there's some memory stuff in this show, and also just mental health stuff. I'm able to sort of be indifferent to it. Ooh, because you're compartmentalizing. Must be. And even even outside the show, like my writing for Alzheimer's or just like talking to people about it, I've noticed I had huge emotions around all of it when my mom was first diagnosed, and now I don't. I don't know why that is disassociating. Probably and making well, and you have to kind of when you're doing when you're in a role that is so heavy like that one, you have to kind of do it. You have to dig in, but you also have to be desensitized at the same time. That's hard. And I will say too, it's only a cast of six, and obviously we well, you wouldn't know this listeners, but we've just started rehearsing. But I think too, it's really important to have a safe group to do this with so that everyone feels safe, like going there. Yeah. You know, and I would say, again, we're at the very beginning of this, we have succeeded in creating that cast that we're all going to be able to be there for each other and let the people feel what they need to feel and and all of that. Uh, which is in a show like this, like is absolutely necessary. Oh, yeah. So so we'll see. More on that. But keep listening. Please keep listening. Please keep listening and follow us if you aren't already. What watch us on YouTube? We have some costumes if you scroll back a little. All the socials and share us with your friends too. Do that. You don't have to watch us because we don't always be loving that. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes we're like, oh my God. Yeah. And we didn't use a ring light today. We didn't, but I think it's okay. I think we're going to say that, and then we're gonna watch it back. And we're gonna be like, ah Why do we look like that? We're green, we're yellow. Oh, all right, everyone. Well, thanks for sticking with us for season four of Dawson's Creek, and we'll see you on the next episode. Bye.