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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek: Season 3 Finale
We've made it to the end of Season 3 of Dawson's Creek and are SO glad we don't have to wait months to see what Seasaon 4 holds!
The final episodes deliver emotional payoffs across multiple storylines. Jack's journey culminates in television history with the first male-male kiss on network television. Meanwhile, Dawson's tearful reaction to losing Joey became an unexpected cultural phenomenon – despite being completely improvised by James Van Der Beek in the moment, not written in the script. And Joey makes her choice between Dawson and Pacey, boarding "True Love" for a summer sailing adventure.
Be sure to join us for the rest of our Nostalgic or Problematic Series, including Dawson's Creek Season 3 -- and get ready for Season 4!
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Hello everyone and welcome back to our finale of season three of our Dawson's Creek rewatch. We're not done. We're going to get into season four, do not worry. Don't worry, we are committed. Now we have to. We're halfway through the show. It's the sixth season. I didn't even think about that Halfway through. Wow, right, yes, sixth season, okay, yeah. So, yes, six seasons, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:So this is a special episode because usually our Dawson's Creek are bonus episodes that we release with our other episodes. This one's getting a standalone, yeah, cause it is the last two episodes that we watched of season three, but also just our general thoughts on season three and a little little wrap up stuff. Yeah, I've got some tidbits about season three, because it was, it's like such a weird season. There's a lot going on behind the scenes, yeah, so like it was just weird, like the vibe was weird, and then the trajectory for the whole show changed after this season. So we're going to talk about that. But first let's talk about these episodes. We've got season three, episode 22, and it is the anti-prom. The summary, all it is is Dawson organizes an alternative junior prom. Yes, correct, that's it. That's it, that's it. That's what happens in the episode. So the beginning of the episode. So I watched these yesterday so it would stay fresh in my mind. When did you watch them today, this morning, this morning, this morning? So it's still fresh in your mind, oh, yeah. So like, okay, all like the episodes, like the last episode ended and it was all dramatic and emotional, yeah, and then they're just like walking and they're like, okay, let's go to prom.
Speaker 1:Like hello, I was, I was confused at the intro, with Dawson and Joey just kind of walking. I was like, wait, I thought I missed something. What did I? Yeah, are they a couple now? I don't know, but they weren't. And then when they talked about the prom pact, she's like, remember the pact we made where he brought it up? He brought it up, yeah, about how we, if we don't have it. It reminded me of the trope of the time where it's like, if we're not married wasn't it my best friend's wedding? Yeah, where Julia Roberts character was gonna? It was a Dylan McDermott, I don't remember and it and it's like, if we're 30 and we're not married or 35 or whatever it was, and I'm like, man, that happened a lot. And so they have this prom pact, yeah, yeah. So obviously Dawson's just trying to get Joey to go to prom with him, not just because of the pact, but that's kind of how it starts, but I also thought I had missed something.
Speaker 1:I was like, huh, yeah, and then, and then gail, gail and mitch come out and I'm like looking at gail and I'm like her poor haircut this season poor thing, her outfit's cute. She's a cute lady, but her haircut was so bad. But I mean, that was the mom haircut. It was, it was, it was, yeah, if anyone could pull it off, it was her. Um, and then I put that I loved andy's shirt.
Speaker 1:Uh, with the dragonfly on it. I wouldn't even notice. It was like this pink t-shirt with like a darker pink, like a magenta dragonfly on it. I even noticed it was really cute. I don't know. I loved it. I wrote it down like back hair, the last one I'd love in andy's style. But that's interesting because we'll get into that. I know because her look for prom. I loved it and that was like my look, like I tried to look like that for prom, like the purple dress, the little glitter, glitter in the hair and my hair was short and like blonde and yeah, I was like, oh, I can see why I like it? Because that's what I tried to do when I went to, because that was the time. Yeah, well, I, I wrote speaking of andy again.
Speaker 1:Okay, all of a sudden, her andy is just like at pacey's house again, I was so confused and she was at his house a lot. Andy is just like at Pacey's house Again, I was so confused and she was at his house a lot in this episode. He was like can I get you something? And I'm like, what does she like? Live there? Yeah, what is happening? She's like no, I'm good, she's got a ginger ale and they're like studying. And I was like but she's studying about the whole beginning part. How did that even happen? Like, because there's still. And then they show Dawson and Pacey at school with the look across the room and I'm like okay, so there's still tension between Dawson and Pacey, but nobody else. Nobody else, I guess not.
Speaker 1:And I thought it was funny when Andy's talking, pacey brings up prom to Andy and she's like oh, I'm just go with or whatever, which you know obviously wasn't true, but she's fibbing. Um, I like this line that Bessie said to Joey, because Joey was talking to Bessie about all this prom stuff and Pacey and, uh, dawson, and she's like you know, come on, like help me out, like give me some answers. And she said, give me a problem that actually has a solution and I can help you. Like your problems are too nuanced for me to be like here's what you should do, you know. So I thought that was a really good line.
Speaker 1:I felt that oh, and then okay, and then the theme of prom was couples. I was like I do not get it, that's not a theme. The theme is couples. So who are you going with? I mean, give me an under the sea or an enchanted evening. I'm I mean, give me an under the sea or enchanted evening. That's not a theme. I don't even remember our theme. What was your theme? I think we did have an under the sea and then we had, like a not enchanted evening, but something like that I don't even remember, like a castle palace kind of theme. I do not remember at all. Yeah, zero, I did have.
Speaker 1:Well, since we're on our proms, did y'all have just a senior prom or did you have a junior? No, it was both. It was only seniors. Oh, interesting, only a senior prom, cause I went twice. I went my junior and my senior year. Did you go to a big school? Oh yeah, did y'all have it at school or somewhere else? Um, somewhere else, yeah, we did too. Yeah, so I got a city auditorium or something like that. Same, it was like a convention center or something like that. Yeah, yeah, we only had. It was just seeing. It was just a senior prom and I had a great time cause I went with my friend Ryan.
Speaker 1:Uh, we, we do post our prom pictures every year. It's almost time we do. No, it's not, it's fucking August. What? What am I talking about? It's almost time to not post them. I don't know. I do have some fall formal pictures where I'm in like browns and have little like carnations in my cornrows. You really loved some flowers on my hair, I really did. We need to post our senior pictures though. Yes, there's definitely one or two in the yearbook I have at the house. Oh, actually, I do think I have some freestanding ones from the last time I went home. Okay, cool, I have a few, I have a few and I was graduated. I graduated in 2000. So I have tons of them with me, just like by a giant, like 2000, lettering like sitting on it, leaning on it. I have some where I'm by a tree. Yeah, I have some by a tree as well.
Speaker 1:And we were Katie and I were texting with one of our friends named Jen the other day about seniors it because Katie and Jen both have a senior this year. You have another senior again. You're doing it again. I did it last year. It's going to be a three Pete next year. That's crazy and like, jen sent us hers and she's like laying on her arms. And then I sent one and I was like laying on my arms. I'm like why, why was that a thing? We were, we were all just really thinking about the future. Well, that was just the poses of the photographers used, I guess.
Speaker 1:Anyway, okay, so the one thing that made me sad was when Jack was trying to buy tickets and the girl was such an asshole and he was like they were sitting outside the school after and you know, andy and Joey and Dawson were trying to like talk to him and he's like why does my entire life have to be a fight? And that just broke. And once I did some little more research I'll tell you why. It's even harder to hear that once we get there, but it made me sad because I'm like that is still true to this day, right, like something as simple as all the other kids being like, here's my money, I want my prom ticket is a fight. And it made me remember. It made me think of the Broadway show the Prom yeah, which I saw in New York and was so dang good. Oh, I bet that was amazing. Oh, it was so good. But it just reminded me of that whole story, because that's of that was the whole point of the story, right, and then they, it becomes this whole thing. But anyway, um, it just made me sad.
Speaker 1:And you know what? We need an adult prom. I wrote that down. I would love to. Yeah, I think that'd be really fun. That'd be fun for us to do, either like branded from the podcast or through my studio as a fundraiser or something. I think that'd be really fun.
Speaker 1:But people are always like, oh, I went to mom prom and I'm like, well, I won't, I don't, I, that sounds fun, but I would like to make my husband go to you. Oh, absolutely, because, yeah, or come, stag, come alone if you want. If you don't have a person to make him come, troy can actually dance very well, I think Troy would come. Oh, he would. He just goes along. I think we should make this happen. He just goes along, yeah, and we went to a.
Speaker 1:I told you this story, I think. Did I bring this up on you before Years and years ago, like Kayden was like two years old, we went to an 80s prom party at somebody's house and Trey break danced. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, I didn't tell this story. No, I've never heard this story. I've never heard this story. No, okay. So, fyi, when Troy was like in middle school or maybe like upper elementary school they were in England, I think they would have like youth center dances and Trey would break dance and he even had like a glove and everything and they would like pull out the cardboard and he would break dance. Well, you know, troy is pretty introverted, he doesn't like attention. So he doesn't like it when I tell people that he used to break dance. I've never seen him do it. All right, this was probably like in 2008. I'd never seen him do it.
Speaker 1:We're at this 80s prom party at somebody's house for his squadron. We were about to move, it was like a going away thing and Troy is not a big drinker, but he had done shots, so to not be a big drinker, and I don't think he did done shots that night Okay, so to not be a big drinker, and I don't think he did multiple shots. I know he had at least one and I think that was probably it, but he was drinking other things and we were all dressed up and I just happened to tell everyone that Troy could break dance. Well, lo and behold, cardboard comes out from somewhere and there is a break dancing competition between him and some other guys and Troy won. Of course, he did.
Speaker 1:The funny part of it was somebody videoed it and put it up on YouTube. Now, this was back in 2008. So this was a long time ago and it was amazing. I have not seen Troy break dance again since that day. It was amazing. I sent the link to everybody in our family and he was furious. I sent the link to everybody in our family, like I was, and he was furious. He was so pissed.
Speaker 1:Now, if that happened nowadays, he would not be that uptight about it, right, but this was like the beginning of his like air force officer career. Yeah, and, like I said, he doesn't like attention, right? Okay, he was so mad, so I had to like contact the girl who posted it. I was like, please take it down. He's like really does not like this, which now I it's missing and I don't know where it is dang, I know, I'd love to see it.
Speaker 1:And also like back then, videos of yourself. They were common, but not as common as now, right, like everyone's got a few embarrassing videos of themselves of there. And it was like this was before TikTok, this was before. This was like when MySpace was still around. We have an embarrassing video or two every week. I know, oh my God, so we have so many.
Speaker 1:I think people are a little less uptight about that stuff. Not saying he was uptight, but you know what I mean. No, he was as opposed to like now that people are just like whatever, and I was like what it's awesome, like to me. I was like right, I'd be like look at me, drunk break dancing. Totally, it's amazing. He had a mullet wig and a run dmc shirt with a member's only jacket. I don't even know it was him, it's fine, you can tell, but anyway it was great. I wish we still had it anyway.
Speaker 1:So, moving on, yes, moving on, okay. So let's talk about jen. Okay, her wigging out at henry, oh yeah, because he's going to football camp for eight weeks. I was so annoyed and did you hear her call it? What ball? Yeah, he goes football camp. She goes what ball. Now, I was like he, but he's always played football. What? Yeah, it was giving when dawson freaked out about joey going to france or whatever like.
Speaker 1:And then she's like I have this whole summer planned and I mean I the only part that I was like I kind of see where she's coming from and she's like you would think if you were going to be gone eight weeks or whatever it would, I would at least come to your mind like, but like no, because he's going for football camp. And to him he was like what's the big deal? Like I was on his side and also eight weeks, like I guess, hindsight, I'm 44 and I was a military spouse, so I'm like eight weeks he's gone for you. I guess when you're that age it feels like when you're that age, yeah, yes, I have to remember, when you're that age, eight weeks is a long time, but but he's going to football camp. And what a long ass. Football camp two months, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I was annoyed with her on that, especially because she yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:And then what did you think about the prom sex talk that they had where jen was? Let's just agree right now that we're not going to have sex after prom, then we don't have to think about it or be awkward or be weird, which I thought was fine, that was fine. But then, in the same vein, she brought it up and she was like well, there goes any chance that we had. And he's like I thought we agreed yeah. And I'm like OK, that's shady To hold sex or act like you're withholding sex, because she's like let's make the agreement not to. And then she said well now, so then they get into that fight at prom. And she's like well, now there's no chance. He's like I thought we already said there was no chance. She's like well, obviously I didn't mean that. Obviously that takes away the mystery of it, or spontaneity. I'm like bitch, no, you need to say what you mean, because that is not fair to that poor boy. And you were saying you didn't want the spontaneity or the awkwardness, you just wanted to be like it's off our minds, we're not worried about that. That night I didn't like that at all. That whole thing was not great. But again, they're teenagers. But also Like, don't say one thing and mean another. Yeah, I don't like that. I agree, that's playing games.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about Joey's look. So we have Joey's look, look, look and like she always looks great. But I'm like, is that just like the dress she wore in the pageant? Like she was just in a black dress, I don't know. It was like those satiny slip dresses I had like three. I couldn't have done anything more with Joey for the prom. Well, they wanted her to look simple. I don't know. I was disappointed. Oh well, I wanted more. She had diamond earrings they're on loan from my mom like they do for like the Oscars. That's like your mom's diamond earrings. Or like it's like what Tiffany when Tiffany rents out, like their jewelry for big award shows. But it's Gail's, gail Leary's jewelry, gail Leary. But also Joey.
Speaker 1:She was being ridiculous too, because she was upset at dawson for saying she asked him honestly, like how he felt about pacey being there, yeah, and then she gets mad at him. And she asked I know you wanted him to be honest. He was yeah. She asked, and then jack. And is it logan? What's his name? Logan, ethan, sorry, jack and ethan. So ethan's like, oh, ethan, ethan, sorry, jack. And Ethan. So Ethan's like, oh, I know having that like vulnerable moment where he's like, wow, like I really give you props because, like I've never done anything like this. And then Jack's like what I know, you're making me have these self-realizations and you haven't even had them get out or whatever. And I was like what, why are you mad about that? Oh, it was weird. People got mad, people. I think they just wanted everyone fighting.
Speaker 1:Well, now I was totally on Mitch's side. Surprise, yeah, because he was upset, because he had tried to be like Gail, like what's up, bitch, like what's happening here? Let's define what we're doing. And she didn't want to. And I'm like, ok, okay, she has put him through it, she has put his ass through it. He is so confused. Yeah, he is hopeful, still right. And she's like right. So I get why he was so upset and I do too. You can't like, you cannot keep doing this to me, I agree.
Speaker 1:And then Dawson even kind of says something to that extent earlier in the episode, because his dad says something and Dawson's like I'm just not like thinking one way or another about it because you guys are all over the place, right, who even knows what's going on with you guys? And I think that got to Mitch. Of course it did, because he was like, oh, yeah, what is going on with us? Yeah, you know. So, yeah, no, I agreed with Mitch as as well.
Speaker 1:I just thought it was interesting like they made sure every couple got in a fight, had turmoil, had turmoil. Well, it's the end of the season. We gotta have tension, that's true. That is a good point. What did I say?
Speaker 1:Oh, when Joey accuses Dawson of parading her around yeah, that's what you were kind of talking about. Yeah, I mean, no, he's like no, I'm just like happy to be here with you. I do feel bad for Dawson. Yeah, I feel bad for Dawson too, and I don't usually, but I do. But also, okay, pacey and Joey slow dancing Listen, love that moment, loved it too. But also, why are they shocked that Dawson was watching them? Hello, also that I was like y'all are like stroking each other on the dance floor, yeah, and having this, and he's already sensitive about it, and like they're like dawson's watching, like hello, of course he is. Yeah, why would not he be watching you? But I love me a slow dance, I know, that seems really cute. See, when you're an old married lady, you don't get to like slow dance often. I was just thinking about that.
Speaker 1:I don't know if my husband and I have ever been to a wedding together other than ours. We've been to lots. And you know what, though? The last wedding we were at was his brother's wedding last fall, but they didn't play any slow music, they did for their dance, and then they told the DJ keep it upbeat, which was a blast. That's super fun, cause the vibes never. The vibes never dipped, yeah, it just stayed up. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, like his sister was married when him and I got married, he has a brother who's not going to get married, like, has said he's not going to get married. I have a brother who is not going to get married. Yeah, I said he is not going to get stuck with that. Never, say never. But and then, um, when my brother my other brother got married, I just went because we had a bunch of little kids at home. So I just flew up, divide and conquer, yeah, and then same with, even like different friends along the way, like I'll just go or I'll go with friends, or whatever.
Speaker 1:So when you got five kids, man, yeah, that's the thing. So I mean, I also think out of the five, at least one of them will probably have a wedding, so we'll slow dance there, but I could be wrong about all of that. So y'all have never slow danced. You think At our wedding we did Together, but other than that I don't think so. Together, together and with other people. But you know, whatever it's fine Don about it. I don't think so. Oh, wow. And I don't think we've ever just like gone somewhere and just like had fun dancing at someone else's party. Really, I don't think so. Now we've gone to some concerts together.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess y'all started dating like after your clubbing days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he had two kids and I had one. You already had a kid. We went to churches, yeah, yeah, yeah, we danced at that. That was really fun. We've been to a few other things, but we've never like gone to like, yeah, like that sort of like organized party where everyone's See even more reason to have an adult prom. I'll make him come, we'll dance, it'll be fun. Yeah, our first dance in 20 years. That's crazy. Whatever, yeah, we've been to a lot of weddings and like I I mean when Troy and I started dating. We were, you know, I was still, I was just out of college, so we still went out quite a bit, yeah, and cut a rug.
Speaker 1:Um, one of my favorite memories from one of my friends and plus, we were at that age where all of our friends from college were getting married, right, um, I met my husband after that, yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of my favorite memories was when Troy and I first we were dating. It was like in the first year we were dating we were living apart because we lived like a few hours apart, and so every weekend one of us was driving the six hours and it was horrible, oof. And one weekend we had a wedding to go to, and so my friends were just getting to know him a little bit. They didn't, you know, you meet Troy and he is very introverted until you get to know him and then he's not, you know. And we were at this wedding and they played um, you're the one that I want from Greece. And Troy and I were dancing on the dance floor. We were lip singing the song and like to each other, and it was so much fun and it was hilarious. And when it was over, my friends came up to me and they're like oh my God, we did not expect that from him. We love him and I thought it was such a fun memory. I remember that it was so much fun.
Speaker 1:The wedding itself was kind of a bummer because I did not like who my friend was marrying. And and did the marriage work out? Oh wait, that's a different wedding. There's so many. I'm trying to I know we literally have been to so many weddings no, no, no, yeah, this one. No, we were not pleased with who she was marrying and no, it did not work out. That's too bad, but anyways, but you'll always have, you're the one that I will.
Speaker 1:So I just wrote that I really hope jack would kiss his date. I know, but he didn't, he wasn't ready. And then the next thing I said was pacey is sailing from capeside to key west. Wait, you're on the next episode. No, they talk about it. Oh, they did, you're right, you're right. Oh, I know, it's the first time I wrote that down. That's really far. He's like well, I'll be gone for the summer. I'm going, I'm taking true love to key. And everybody's parents are like cool, yeah, I was very alarmed. I mean, I guess he's a sailor. He just like built that boat from ground up and, yeah, capeside's really really far from key west and a lot of like different like ocean straits that you have to go through, like it's not just like going across the lake, yeah, okay. So I also wrote that. Um, wait, hold on, I want to.
Speaker 1:I had a lot of notes, okay, first of all, I wrote back to Dawson and Joey. I've put Dawson why did you think that it was a good time to kiss Joey? Yeah, like that was just so terrible, so terrible. And then I wrote Jen. I said Jen be acting kind of out there and unreasonable, you think, when he was at the door and she's like this is goodbye. And I felt bad for Henry because he's just like what? But why, right, what the fuck are you even doing? And I appreciated he said all right, jen, I'm not going to stand with a sign, I'm not going to do all these grand gestures Like if you say bye now, like we don't talk about this, then it's bye. Like she is out there with this, she's being crazy, okay. But then back to that. I had to say it because I had something about the Jack thing.
Speaker 1:I didn't like Ethan's peer pressure though. Yeah, where he was like just kiss me, jack, like you can't like, come on, that's a lot. And then is it like even like that satisfying. If it comes to that, I just I didn't like that. I didn't like that either. And then, uh, joey was like I just can't choose.
Speaker 1:I felt bad for the guys on this episode, a lot, a lot of them. Yep, me too. I was like joey, what do you mean? And I've, and, as you mentioned, like I, I felt bad for Mitch and Jack. And she's like I just can't decide. Bitch, that is not nice. No, she's like can y'all just wait? Can y'all just hold on? Can you imagine? I've never been in that position in my entire life. Surprise, no, it's too much pressure. I said, um, gail's proposal. But also, where was she coming from? It's just like rushing. They're like standing. They mean Joey and Dawson are standing on the porch and here she comes just out of nowhere and I'm like where was she? I guess at the restaurant, and it just like hit her. I got to go do this right now. I guess that's TV, that's how. All right, that's what TV, that's how you know. I guess that's what that was. What else do you have for this episode. That's all I have for that one. Okay, so season finale. Here we go.
Speaker 1:Season three, episode 23,. True Love this was a longer summary. Dawson realizes he's the one standing in the way of Joey's happiness. Grams insists that Jen and Jack repair their damaged love lives before it's too late. All right, so let's too late. All right, so let's see what happened. Okay, wait.
Speaker 1:So Gail and Mitch, I wrote is there a divorce, even final? Yet they're getting remarried already. Yeah, I wondered that too, cause I was like, are they actually divorced? And then I put Joey is Gail's maid of honor, I know what is happening. I was so confused and they're like shopping together for like all the things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a little, it's a little much funny because, like, divorce takes a while. Yeah, like the legality, just like, let's go online and click a button. Like it takes forever. No, I mean, maybe it speeds on a little faster nowadays, I don't know. But I mean I remember my parents. It took them forever for their divorce to be final. It felt like it, yeah, it drags the fuck on. And she's like let's get remarried. I'm like is your papers even like the ink dry? Right, right, do you eat. Is this even necessary? Just rip them up now. Yeah, I'm just like just kidding. We're still married. We never weren't?
Speaker 1:Um, I said I liked when doug was reminding pacey that he's gonna miss joey. Oh, and doug says you're gonna see her in the stars. Okay, I am loving the new doug. I love how they kind of gave him some nicer big bro vibes now totally, and I like that pacey's living at his apartment I know I'd like to go back to the last episode because you could tell that's where andy was doing her work and stuff. I just love it. Yeah, and I like the new doug. I know we like the new dog, the nice dog. So when? So, when they're at school and they're cleaning out their lockers, first of all, that brought back memories when you had the big trash can and you're just dumping it and everything, yeah, henry comes walking down the hall and those jorts and those vans and that bright orange shirt, yes, yes, I was like wow, that's that did not stay cute looking. No, not for long, not for long.
Speaker 1:How do you feel about men in jorts? I don't mind jorts. Let me just say this Men in any sort of pants are fine with me. I don't like a man in a jort? Why not? I don't know, I don't know. I don't mind men in shorts and I don't mind girls in shorts and I don't mind girls in shorts, it's the denim. I mean, I have jorts, yeah, you do. You have some cute jorts? I do. I don't mind girls in jorts, it's just boys in jorts. It's not for you. I don't mind a gay man in jorts. Okay, so it's a straight man in shorts. I don't know why I've never thought about it until right now. It don't matter. I mean, you wear what you want to wear. Obviously Nobody's getting dressed for my pleasure. No, although Troy has never worn jorts, I've never seen Troy in 22 years in jorts. I've never seen Brandon in them either. Well, good, Well, he must be on your train of thought and I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1:Do you like a man jort? I don't know if I like it. Now, you need to think about it. I guess I need to think about it. I don't know, why do I feel like that? It really doesn't bother me, I don't know. Maybe it's just not enough material, maybe it makes you anxious? No, because I don't find a gay man in some jorts. Cover enough, maybe I don see a man legs. I like to see me a man leg, as you know, it's just the style component of it, it's the denim. It's the denim. No, it's fair, I have no idea. But anyway, I don't know either.
Speaker 1:I don't like a man in a jort, and henry reminded me of that. Yes, and then when they're talking through jack, jack, will you tell jen that I need my book back, sit hard, or whatever? Um, jack, will you tell henry that if he wants his book, he better start digging? Yeah, and I was just like, oh, my god. But it was like, really, yeah, that was pretty funny. And jack's just like this is stupid. Um, okay, so what did you think?
Speaker 1:When grams tells the story of the man she was in love with, she's telling like all the downhearted people minus dawson he wasn't there but she's telling jen, jack and andy about how she like basically fell in love with this other man before jen's grandpa and he was killed in the war or something. Yeah, so, um, what I mean? What did you think about, like that story at this arc of the season? I didn't really think about it. Really, I was like okay, cute, my favorite thing about grams in this episode was how she was like turning that car around.
Speaker 1:I was like, yeah, bitch, when that car turned around yeah, obviously, you know it really wasn't that actress probably doing that because it was like a huge. I know I was probably a stunt driver or something, but I was like that's hilarious, I. You know why I loved that is because I get it Like. She knows, the regret is always worse than the rejection. Absolutely, it's always worse Like it is. We can all think of times where like, oh, I should have totally XYZ. Yep, I should have shot my shot Totally, and I mean it depends on the situation, but you're no worse off if you're rejected than if you had not taken the shot at all. Well, and that's why I liked that they had Jen's be good and Jack's not. That was, that was good, because it's like that's, you need to see that. But he was, I mean. And then that happened. Well, we'll get into that in a minute. We'll get into that. But I love the.
Speaker 1:So what, wait, wait? Why did you have strong feelings about her sharing the story? I just thought it was really cute. I thought it was kind of predictable. Like I knew from the start she wasn't talking about Jen's grandpa, but I thought that that was sweet, that it was like when they're like well, it's easy for you, you've only loved one person, your whole.
Speaker 1:Just a reminder like we don't know everyone's stories, like our kids don't know all of our stories, we didn't know all of our parents' stories. Well, they listen to our friends. Well, our kids know most of our stories and so do you listeners, but they I just I don't know. It's just a good reminder to me. I was like, yeah, you know, like people's lives are nuanced and and that happens to me sometimes if I mentioned, like um single parenting and people were like, what do you mean? And I'm like, oh, cause, like I was like, oh, I was a single parent for a few years, or like it was just come up and it's, that was such a huge part of who I was at the time that, like, a lot of people have known me for forever. They've only known you with Brant. Yeah, well, they, they know me, they knew that person. But the people now don't, right, and they'll be like, what do you mean by that? That there's like more to the story, or that we're a combined family or whatever. And so it's just a reminder that people have all sorts of stories and we can't just like assume right anything.
Speaker 1:So I liked it, yeah, um, I did like the wedding outside at dawson's and I liked gail's headband. You didn't like it, I, I didn't, I didn't, it didn't not one way or the other. No, I just her dress was really pretty too. It was like that. It was like wispy, wispy, and it wasn't Not one way or the other. No, I just was like okay, her dress was really pretty too. It was like that. It was like wispy, wispy and it wasn't like white, it was like that off lavender color Because you can't wear white if you're not here. No, she better not, she better not. Such a stupid rule.
Speaker 1:And I love how the so when Grams and the track down the loves and say what they want to say, and they go to track down henry and they find his bus of football players like at a rest stop and so jen jumps out and she's like henry, henry, henry goes in the bathroom screaming henry, and anyway she finds him. I like that. They called that. I think jen called it the carpe diem road trip. Yeah, I thought that was really fun and, like you said, it worked out for henry and Henry's so sweet, like he sees her and he knows why she's there. Oh yeah, like right off the bat, he's like, okay, she's tracked me down because she feels bad and like we're going to make up now Because also, this is pre-cell phones, guys. She couldn't just send him a text, mm-mm.
Speaker 1:And drove down the highway till they found him, which is a little unbelievable, but I guess it's possible. I guess, I mean, there's only one way to go, one direction, if they know where he's going, that's true. So and then they say, what's the quickest route to boston? Which from where they were, who knows what that was. So then they go to boston and you see jack, I know, walk up to ethan, yeah, and there's a guy there and he gives him the kiss that he didn't give him at prom. And then ethan's like, oh, this is brad, and jack's like your ex-boyfriend brad, and it's you can tell they're back together.
Speaker 1:But again he did the thing he set out to do, which is still better right than just living there with the regret and wondering and like kicking yourself, like man, I should have done it, should have, could have, would have. He did it. And then he saw for his own eyes, like, how the situation had evolved and it was out of his hands now and so, even though that's hurtful, it's like, well, you saw it and you can move on. Yeah, now you can move on, which I thought was good. So let's talk about pacey painting that wall. Yeah, is that sweet or psycho? I looked kind of psycho. Here's the thing. I feel like pacey gets a little bit of a pass because he's just so great and so funny that, like stuff pacey does, I'm just like that's sweet, he's got, he's come over, she's come over to the other side. But then, like, when you look at it in isolation, it's like, yeah, that's kind of weird. Well, you're begging someone to ask you to not do something On the wall that you rented for them without their consent. You know I love Pacey, but that was cringe to me. No, that was pretty cringe, it was pretty cringeinged. Okay, and let's talk.
Speaker 1:We made it to the Dawson crying scene. Yes, okay, it was shorter than I remember. I said it was so fast, it was so fast. It was what? Two seconds, three seconds, and it was like as the scene changed. So I was like how did this become so iconic? And I have a tidbit about this later. It's so up close on his face too. He's like, yeah, listen, I'm an ugly crier though, so I get it. Me too, I'm such an ugly crier. I hate it.
Speaker 1:There's a picture I'll pull it up now, although you might get teary, but I'll bring it up anyway. Let me see if I can bring it up. There's a picture I have You've probably seen it, oh Of Tori's second deployment to Afghanistan us running up to him on the flight line and the photographer was taking pictures and she got the picture right when I hugged him and I was crying and my face is so. Oh, when you're holding Caden yeah, I'm holding Caden and I'm not pregnant. Oh, you're not pregnant. I'm holding Caden in a sign and I'm hugging. Okay, I'm going to try and pull it up because I remember it and I cried when you posted it. I reposted it.
Speaker 1:I don't think you look ugly though, oh yeah, oh, I'll look at it with that lens this time. The only thing I saw when I saw it was just like I felt that moment where you're like holding your child. You haven't seen your husband in forever. See, look, look at this, I'm just going to zoom in. Look at that cry. Oh yeah, that's pretty, pretty bad, pretty bad guys. You can't see it from that far, but I'm an ugly crier. Zoom out, because I want to see the full picture. Okay, well, are you going to cry? Yeah, probably. Okay, I can't do it. I kept saying you're here, you're here, oh, yeah, anyway, moving on, I'm gonna have my own crying me on our show. I'm gonna be like, yeah, yeah, it's gonna be us.
Speaker 1:Um, okay, I say, speaking of crying, I did cry a lot with um jack and his dad when his dad got on the floor with him and Jack like, okay, I just couldn't. Yeah, because I'm glad they gave his dad that arc, me too. I think, for all the gay teens watching that show, they needed to see that that could happen, even if in their life it wasn't going to happen. Absolutely. Do you know what I mean? I totally agree, I think.
Speaker 1:I think for that moment they needed to see that it was possible, mm-hmm, yeah and that, and that the dad doesn't make that moment about him being gay. He makes it like a human moment, right, I mean he does say like I didn't ask for a gay son, but I'm glad I have one. Yeah, so he does say that, but like the sympathy he's showing him because his heart's broken Right Just crossed any line of identification. It was just like my child is hurting, yeah, and I know how that feels, or I want to help them and I thought that that was really really good. I like that a lot. Let's see what I say.
Speaker 1:Oh, I said it was cute that the friends minus Joey and Pacey, crashed Dawson's bedroom and they have, and they're like I rented some videos from the store, yeah, and I brought candy or whatever, and it was Jen, andy and Jack and they're telling him about all their adventures from the day and all the things they did and you could tell you know how, when you just feel like crap and you just want to be left alone all the time, yes, anytime the sun goes down, I don't feel like crap all the time, I just be like, when I feel like crap, I want to be left alone. Right, if you feel like crap all the time, you feel like that, you feel like you want to be left alone. When you feel like crap which is not often there we go, I getcha so and you could see it in his face kind of like, oh why are they in here? Yeah, but then he kind of melted into it. It's like when you want to just moan and complain, um, but your friends make you do something, absolutely, and you're like, okay, you're all right. Yeah, like I really that's. And you could see that, yeah, you could see they really were there for him and that he was going to be happy, okay.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about the last three minutes of this show. Has in a chokehold back in the day and I was still in a chokehold even though I knew it was coming, yeah, I knew it was coming. Those last three minutes, that's what they do to us on this show. Man, but also joey just popped in the boat and bessie's cool with her, like I said. I said she had no clothes. He's like, don't worry, we'll stop at ports. And I was like, what does she have money? Did she have an id on her?
Speaker 1:And then, of course, I think of things like what are you doing on your period on that boat? Right, there's no bathroom on there. Well, I mean, whatever they figured out, people who are like supernatural are like she'll figure it out, but still, yeah, these are the dumb things I think about, which is why I don't do outside things, yeah, and why we're too old at this point to just get on a boat and sail away for three months, like the parents are just like, yeah, go on in the atlantic or wait, that's not the right ocean. Yes, it is. Oh, yes, it is. Can you edit that out so I sound smart? If you want me to, I can. Yeah, because they're not even adults yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, what are they? I don't, that's a little outlandish, but fun to think about. I think that's the point, right, yeah, because we want to see ourselves in like what's more, literally like more sweeping and romantic, I know, but then, like, when you start to overthink it, it's like wait a minute, there's there. They overthink it. It's like, wait a minute, there's there. They've been choppy, they've been like, yeah, not really a couple. So now, what if they get on the boat in a day and joey's like, oh, just kidding, I love dawson after all. Now you're on a boat. That doesn't happen because it doesn't. They stay, and we know it doesn't, but it's like the realism of it is like I know what? But you can't think too much about it. You can't, you really can't all.
Speaker 1:So here's some tidbits from season three. So, all right, as we know, we talked about this a little bit Kevin Williams Williamson, uh, who created the show step down before. I couldn't get a clear timeline. It was either at the end of season two or the beginning of season three, okay, I don't really know, but it was because he had other projects going on and he made another TV show called wasteland for a different network and it was only around one season. Okay, he was also doing the Scream franchise, yeah, so he left to do other stuff, but he did come back to write the show's finale in 2003. This season finale, the series, oh, the series finale. Sorry, okay, I wrote that wrong. The show's finale, yeah, he came back and he wrote the two-part oh, cool, oh, can't wait for that. Okay, so here is the deal.
Speaker 1:So, greg berlanti, I think that's probably right. How are you saying he was one of the new young writers? He was only 26. Um, he actually based the character of jack on his high school experience. Really, oh, yeah. So a lot of the things that Jack went through he went through as a gay kid. So I'm not glad that he went through all those things, but I'm glad that he was the writer. So you know, there was times while we were watching the season and we were kind of like side eye and like some of the stuff they had, jack do I feel kind of bad, because there was someone who was a gay individual, who had input in writing his character, which made me feel a lot better. I think, yeah, that makes me feel better too, and that's what I mean. I'm glad that that's the case, because some of the things maybe we have side-eyed or been like, oh, I don't know about that, or was that stereotypical or was it whatever, and and maybe it still still was, but it makes me feel a little better that maybe hopefully it was through the lens of, like, really someone who experienced it and not an outsider going yeah, um, I think this is how this type of community should feel. Yeah, right, um.
Speaker 1:And he actually was the one who insisted on that. Ethan and jack kiss this episode, because this was the first kiss between two male characters on network tv. I wondered about that when I watched it. I was like this has got to be yep and it was supposed to be a little longer because, you know, it was just really quick. It was pretty quick, um, but he insisted on it. He was ready to quit if they wouldn't air it good for him, so I'm glad they did. I mean, it was, it was groundbreaking history, so, um, he also came up with the idea for getting Pacey and Joey together, which saved the series yeah, everyone's here for that romance Because the season was so wonky, their ratings were starting to droop and it said it's kind of shifted the dynamics of the show and kind of saved it. So fun, um, fun fact.
Speaker 1:I didn't know Katie Holmes and Joshua Jackson actually really dated. I feel like I did. You know that. I didn't know that, and she actually has been quoted as saying he was her first love. I mean, I wonder if I knew after the fact, like if I've seen that in later years. They're doing that movie together now and I'm like I know he's currently single. I wonder if she is. Oh my God, if they get back together she might be. We would all middle-aged people around the world.
Speaker 1:What a plot twist. What a plot twist. What a life plot twist. Okay, so we talked about this before. When we had all the episodes with Eve, all the writers and kevin williamson said that's a horrible storyline, was just a mess like. It was a huge mistake and and she does, she never comes back. Does anything ever, ever happen with that? She's never mentioned again. She never comes back. So we find out jen has a sister and that, but jen never finds out.
Speaker 1:Okay, weird, yeah, um, also, the dawson ugly cry that we were just talking about, yeah, it was not in the script. James vanderbeek just, uh, improvised that on the spot. He was wrapped in his emotions and so now I feel bad making fun of it, because I told y'all I am an ugly crier and he was really crying and that's just how his face be looking. That's how his face be looking. Look, no one is saying that James Van Der Beek is ugly, and certainly no one would say that about you. So it's not like a comment on like who they are. Certainly it has happened. Well, those people are liars. I mean, we can't put me and James Van Der Beek's attractiveness in the same category. That's not a thing I feel like. But they're the same in that we ugly cry. You can be ugly criers, but not ugly people. Okay, depending on the day, everybody's watching this video, like they're like well, wow, you both ugly. Turn off the camera.
Speaker 1:She didn't wear all her makeup this week. Have you thought about throwing pies at each other. That's one commenter did suggest. You know, on our YouTube clip where I put the whiners on the glass. Oh yeah, people are throwing all kinds of quotes from Varsity Blues up in air. Oh really, I need to check that out. I said people, it's three, three is so many People love a Varsity Blues quote, especially about wangers on the glass.
Speaker 1:You have a hard time with the Southern accent. I was watching that back and I was laughing so hard. I told you I'm like going full in it and I was like whiners on the glass and you're like that's just too much. It was so cute. I told you they told me to not do a Southern accent in a play I was in. They removed that. That like requirement for me. They're like no, we like your, just like your normal speaking midwestern. That's just where you need to stay. You're gonna live for this one. That would happen to me if they ever told me to do like a new york accent. I can't do it. It's really bad. Look, it's okay. I'm not even gonna try because it's literally.
Speaker 1:I thought I was pretty convincing as mocks, mocks, yeah, mocks, and not when you say wieners. No, gina has a suit next door, Not yet, oh, almost Wieners on the glass. That's just still funny to me. You know I love the word wiener, I don't know why. Yeah, but now, with the Texas accent, makes the word winger better. I thought they were saying okay, stop. No, you did not until right now. Are you making that up just to be funny?
Speaker 1:I thought they were saying wangers on the, and now I realized what they were actually saying. They're saying wieners, but it's oh, whiners. Okay, I hear it. You thought it was like w-a-n-g-e-r-s. Yeah, have you ever heard that? Justin varsity blues? I guess I don't know what was that. It's like shit brick, yeah, shit brick, do you not?
Speaker 1:We never talked about how I actually looked the script up. Oh, did you, did you? Oh, yeah, and you were right, because did you know you could do that? You can look up like scripts if it's been like there. But you can look it up and yeah, it's in the script. It says break, shit Break. I believe you. I just didn't. I know it's just Well.
Speaker 1:Now I can't wait to hear what else we, what else comes? Wangers, wangers. I mean it does sound alike, but no, it sounds like it's. It's wieners, just pronounced with the texas whiners, wangers. Okay, I still said a g, I just said wangers.
Speaker 1:Oh, that might help your southern accent if you think of it as a different word. Actually, true, see, yeah, if I ever need to do that, just like, think of, like what I'm hearing, uh-huh, and say it that way, I did that. I do that when I have to do british, I will write it down, even though our dialect coach told us not to do that. I I still do, though when I'm trying to learn an accent, she said don't do that. Yeah, I did it anyway when I was trying to learn britney spears.
Speaker 1:Like her mannerisms, I would take certain words yesterday. No, did you do this Yesterday? No, I'm just kidding. What was this for? For a fringe show I was in. Oh, okay. And so I did the whole thing in her voice oh, that's hard, including, like singing, ooh, no-transcript. Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 1:You have video of that. Yeah, oh, we got to see that. We need clips of that for our socials. I do'll find it. I love that. Worry, okay, well, that's all I got, all right. Well, we are at the end. Oh, three, wait, look, I have one page left in my, in my notebook. Wow, what's that? Oh, oh, look at that hello. Katie said what's that? There's something in my notebook. For some reason, I have our christmas card from 60,000 years ago. What year was this? This was 2018, I think. Wait, but to be clear, I got her this notebook less than a year ago.
Speaker 1:I have no idea why this is in here, but look how little Caden and Cooper are. Aw, they're precious. That's before my hair started falling out too. Aw, they're so long. I know it looks the same before my hair started thinning. I could have long hair I can't have. Well, I'm trying. It's gonna be two strands, two strands looking like two long strands.
Speaker 1:I had to pull my hair up because it looked so bad in the past two videos. It's so bad and this is my worst side of my face and I'm recording on it every week. I feel like that about my face and why I had like cave woman hair last week. I don't know what happened, but like part of it was like pressed into my head as if I slept on it. Maybe I did, mine was just, and then one was like super fluffy, but it was like all uneven and not symmetrical at all.
Speaker 1:No wonder people want us to throw pies at each other. They're like cover, cover that shit up, girls, seriously, seriously. But look, this is us. But you know what? Us being seen, look at us go Can't help it. Listen.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad we watched season three. I am also glad it's over. I am too. We're halfway through the whole entire show. I can't believe it. We'll have to figure when we're starting season four, but it'll be here today. We're starting it today. Hello, okay, sorry everyone, we've already decided. We're back on. Apparently, we got taken no breaks. We can't stop. We have momentum, that's true. And I want to know what happened on the sailing trip to the, to Key West. On true love, cause you don't remember any of the. The next few seasons, the next season, I remember watching season four, but the last two I trickled in and out of. Okay, so it will be a surprise. Okay, because I feel and you don't remember season four no, okay, so it's going to be fun. I'll be like we're watching it for the first time. Okay, sounds good to me. Some of it, we are, some of it, some of it, truthfully, that is the case. All Thanks, guys, for sticking with us and we'll see you next time on Generation In Between, dawson's Creek Edition. Bye, bye.
