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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek S3, E20 & E21: Pacey and Joey Revealed!
On this installment of Nostalgic or Problematic, we delve into the episodes where Joey and Pacey's secret make out fests come to light -- and Dawson is NOT pleased.
We weigh in on the storyline, the non-chronological storytelling and the overall writing of Season 3 in this episode.
Don't miss the next episode where we finish the season!
We're rewatching Dawson's Creek, Season 3 on Hulu and Amazon Prime.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to our Dawson's Creek rewatch. We are almost at the end of season three. Today we're going to talk about episode 20 and 21. So, excuse me, I have to burp. Okay, I'm back. The name of episode 20 is the Longest Day and the summary is one sentence and it is Joey and Pacey break the news to Dawson. That's it. I mean, that is the crux of the episode. So I get it.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was hella confused in this episode when it restarted I could not figure out what was going on. Oh, and then I realized, okay, they're telling it, they're showing the different characters, points of view, correct. But I was like did I restart it? Because I had it on while I was cooking and I was like, wait, did I restart? And I had to like pause it and look. I was like what is going on? And then I also was like really sad and we still didn't see a whole lot. But like they're all. They're talking about the. But this is because they keep flashing back and forth in time. They're talking about the boating outing and then they don't go out on the boat. I said no boat outing, what? Like also they kind of do I don't know, it's just yeah. Also, I said the grown-ups in this show should be disappearing and going on trips, a lot like graham's, graham's life, yeah, and then, like his parents, go places like everybody. I'm damn they sure leave a lot, yeah, and they're just like bye. I'm like okay, yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:I wrote down the quote embarrassing grope fest. When Joey and Pacey the opening why was it embarrassing? No, that was the quote. Joey says something like oh, she said that. Oh, I thought to say something. Yes, I felt like it was an embarrassing grope fest. Turn it off. No, no, no, but they're kissing and she goes. You know, we're around everyone and we're just normal, and the second we're alone. It turns into this embarrassing grope fest. I just thought that was funny. That's funny. I like that line. I yeah. What wait? Let's wait on for a second Before we go any farther.
Speaker 1:What do you think the purpose was for this? Retell it like the for the restart and like the different points of view. I don't get what the point was. I really don't get it. I don't know. It is called the longest day, so maybe they're playing on that, like how they're repeating parts of the day and somehow that's making it longer. The only other thing I could think and this has nothing to do with the points of view, but the name of the episode is that joey does say like, oh, just give me a day. Or pacey says that somebody says that about telling yeah, yeah, and I'm like, oh, I get it the longest day. Yeah, I don't know why they did title, but I just don't get like I don't understand, I don't feel like it did anything.
Speaker 1:The only thing I can think is it it allowed us to find out how Dawson knew about them in reverse. So you hear him say to them oh, I already know Right, but as an audience, we don't know how he knows. Yeah, and I already know Right, but as an audience, we don't know how he knows yeah. And then you go back in time and you find out how. But why couldn't they just done that from the very beginning? I don't know that's. Maybe there's more shock value of him being like I already know. And then, as the audience is, the audience is like wait, how does he know? But I don't, it's a bad way to tell the story for sure, keep going, okay.
Speaker 1:Jonathan Lipnicki buzzed in a life jacket Cute, adorable, and that like fisherman's hat Freaking cute, I loved him. And then I said that Andy looked so cute, her hair was like I don't even remember Super like slick again and they didn't have. Like it was slick, yeah, it was slick, so slick, yeah, it was slick. So before they had I don't know, like it was almost like frizzy or dry, and then this time it was like nice and straight and slicked back. It was slicked back. It was slicked back. Yeah, I don't even remember. But see, I watched this two weeks ago, oh, right, or last week, right, because I watched it, I don't know I. So I don't remember what her hair looked like. Yeah, okay, and then okay.
Speaker 1:And then the answering machine. Can we try to figure this out? I said, what did Buzz do when Doug Pacey's brother is mad at the kid for breaking his answering machine? But then we hear someone leaving the message. Is it Joey leaving the message? So is Buzz trying to get rid of the evidence? I don't know. Or is it just? He's just a rambunctious kid? I think he's just a kid. But why? I don't know why. This whole season, that's what we say. Why, why, why? Why, all the president's men? Dawson asks Joey if they want to watch it, or something like that. I was like, oh my gosh, I forgot about that movie. Oh, yes, I love that one.
Speaker 1:So wait, let me ask you, while we're talking about this, what are your thoughts on best friends dating ex-girlfriends? That's a tricky one, because I got to say I'm kind of on Dawson's side here, even though I love Pacey and Joey together once it happens. But I do also feel like high school, that's just what happened. Everybody dated each other. Yeah, I mean, you're in the same circles and particularly in this case, the circle is very small.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on one hand, it's like the world is full of so many people, but it's not when you're that age. Not when you're that age and your circle is small, I don't know, it doesn't really bother me. Like if it was me when I was that age, it would have bothered me. And I can think of just even in college, like um, a friend of mine dating someone I had liked recently or something, and me being really, oh yeah, you know, but also like I don't. It didn't really affect my life that much. And do you know? She actually married him. They've been married over 20 years. Wow, they have three kids. So there you go. Well, there you go then and I'm like, well, I hope you're still like that now, of course. But I mean, like a week later I was do you know what I'm saying? Like I was really, but then like it really didn't matter.
Speaker 1:I mean it, I think, looking at it in our age then, then looking at it then because I would, I kept waiting for Dawson to be like bros before hoes, man, yeah, you know, uh-huh, chicks before dicks, all those things. Because I mean, I do feel like that is kind of it is hurtful, I think when that happens, but it's, I guess it it shouldn't be what it is, but it is. I think it's the betrayal of trust and I think that obviously dawson doesn't want them together, but I think it's more that it was going on without his knowledge and also, jen knew about it. That's the other thing. When you're the last one to know something like that, yeah, that feels really yucky and everyone's acting normal to your face. Yeah, I don't like that. It's not good. No, okay, I was just curious. Um, okay, I said why is everyone at the library? Or maybe it just felt like it because it kept repeating, but I'm like we have not had this much time at the library in any episode and it's it's the weekend, so it's not the school library, they're all going, oh yeah, true, the public library, but they're literally all there or they're like oh yeah, she's at the library, I'm gonna pick her from the library. I was like what is going on with the library in this episode? And then the payphone was so fun. When jen calls um henry on the payphone, that was really, really fun and it was like so like classic payphone, I know the white and the blue and like I know metal, and she was on the phone. I really like that.
Speaker 1:And while we're talking about henry, I can't believe I didn't write this down, but I remember thinking it where he's like like dawson comes over and he's like all pissed off and he's like can't believe I didn't write this down, but I remember thinking it where he's like like Dawson comes over and he's like all pissed off and he's like can't believe, you know. And then Jen's all upset and Henry was just like OK, and he like started trying to make out with her. She's like what are you doing? He's like, well, I'm trying to make you feel better. She's like, no, you're trying to make you feel better. And I'm like, oh bitch, yeah.
Speaker 1:But I also understood what henry said, I know, when he was like maybe tonight it can just be like about us and not about all the drama your friends always have I mean point also. But but, right, his way of like making her feel better was kind of like, uh, what guys, girl, I've been there. I'm like this is not for me, this is for you and that is not what I want. I'm out of the mood for this. Yeah, that is not for sure. That is all about what you think would make me feel better. Right, right, she was right, she was. But I understood what he was saying. I know you're right. Like, do we have to deal with this? Can we just like hang out and be together?
Speaker 1:True, but also also, like she can't just be like, sure, let me not think about all this craziness, true, going on, true, true, true, especially if it's on her mind. I agree it doesn't just go away, because he says that that's true. But I can see his frustration. Maybe, how about that? Not that she should like agree with him, no, no, no, I get it, but I can see where he's coming from. Yeah, yeah, yeah, about andy all of a sudden showing some feelings for pacey again. I think it's typical.
Speaker 1:You think that wasn't normal, even though she likes this rusty guy. I think, yeah, I mean I kind of get it. I mean I can remember, like your first big, like heartbreak, especially if it ends on like if it's your fault it's over, because it was her fault, like she really fucked him over. I did that with my first big boyfriend and like you still, like you move on, but then you don't really Because you know why. I think it is is because it doesn't feel finished, because it was like it was just stopped abruptly, even though it was your fault. So it still kind of lingers.
Speaker 1:I think that first, that first big love you have, is hard to let go of when you're the one whose fault is this. So I agree with that, I agree with that. I think that's pretty normal. I think that's pretty normal. That's pretty normal. And she even says the line like well, he's not Pacey, she says that to Joey, right, yeah, when she's talking about like how's it going with the other guy, and she's like, well, he's not Pacey, she's like what do you mean?
Speaker 1:And then, yeah, so that was, that was awkward Hurricane Chris. Yeah, which is what they were talking about. I looked that up. What were they talking about with that? That it had done damage or it was coming? Yeah, I can't remember. I couldn't find anything. So they must have just made that up for the episode. No, that's how he bought the boat, that's what it was. So I was like, oh, was that a real hurricane? I found a tropical storm from 1998. But it was like nowhere near the US. And then there was an actual Hurricane, chris, in 2024, which would not be related to this at all, forcing the future. So I don't know why. I was just like oh, I wonder if that's real, but I don't think it was, it wasn't.
Speaker 1:And then the boat being named True Love. I know, but he named it that a long time ago. That's true. You're just not realizing it. Did they say the name before? Yeah, when he first got it, he named it. That You're right. But the writers oh, look at that. It was already said. But the writers had fun with that because at the end they're like true love will always win. Yeah, well, that's the next episode, but still, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I thought that was funny.
Speaker 1:Um, oh, I said, oops, jen telling dawson about pacey and joey, I think we've all had a moment like that where we say something we didn't mean to, thinking someone already knew, or someone's like what do you mean? And you're like, oh, you're like uh, oh, right, yeah, the worst, yeah, that was, that was rough, that was a rough one. He had no right to be mad at her about that too, by the way, I don't know. I mean no, because that wasn't her place, that ain't her place. To tell him that ain't her place, I guess. So I mean, I don't know, that's another one. That's of.
Speaker 1:It depends how good friends you are with someone. No, but don't you think like, that's like, you don't get involved in people's mess, like that. Okay, so if you knew something about my husband and someone, you wouldn't say anything to me because that's not your place. That's very different. Y'all are married, that's true. That's a whole different thing. Y'all are married with some kids. That's a house. If your husband was running around, yes, I would tell you yeah, but that's very different, that's different.
Speaker 1:And and joey aren't together. True, there was no cheating, true, see what I'm saying. Yeah, that's not. You don't get him involved in people's messes. And I can see why, in the moment, he'd be upset because, well, yeah, but like she's standing there. But he was wrong. Yeah, he was wrong. I agree that, because that's joey and pacey need to tell, which they kind of do. Well, sort of speaking of that.
Speaker 1:I don't understand at the end, where they were like well, it has to be over and and I'm like why you already pissed everybody off and they know now. I had the same thought. I'm like the worst part's over. Yeah, everybody fucking knows Everyone's mad and they're still going to be mad. So you might as well carry on, might as well, be happy. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, so dumb. Like why does everyone knowing and being mad at you mean you has to end? Well, because I needed two more episodes. Right, that's true, that's true, that's probably. I said the canoe, but it's really the rowboat. But it's back when Andy and him are in it on their little date.
Speaker 1:Yes, was it weird when he was telling the story of Orpheus and Eurydice? Oh, yeah, I was like what, this is way pre-Hadestown. Well, granted, it's Greek mythology, but I'm saying back then people watching that might have been like, oh, I don't know that one People still today are probably like that, that's true, just because you know Hadestown, but he's telling it and I was like this is so weird. And then I'm like I wonder if the creator of Hadestown got this idea watching this episode. No, you don't think. So'm gonna look into it. I mean, the greek myths have been around a really long time, true, but the way that he told it or maybe they wrote percy jackson because of, yeah, maybe who knows dawson creek?
Speaker 1:Dawson's creek was the inspiration for all the art. Do you know? Sometimes in the whole world, do you know? Sometimes you, you just say Dawson Creek. That's why you do that earlier. It's every now and then, and I think that I'm like, sometimes I think I mishear it, and then I listen back and I'm like, no, she said that. Why do I do that? I don't know, I'm just so excited, like it's his last name. You know him? Dawson Creek. That guy Strange, I need to make sure I have my possessive s's on lock.
Speaker 1:Dawson's. I mean, that's the only thing you do it with that. I don't know, I don't know. I feel like I need to pay attention to this. Um, that's all I really had for that episode. Okay, cool, so let's move on. Let's move on episode. Let's move on.
Speaker 1:Episode 21 called Show Me Love Dumb. But I did used to love that song. Dawson and Pacey use a regatta to wage war for Joey's affection. They said regatta a bajillion times, so many times. And what a white man pissing match situation we have on our hands. It was so fucking dumb and like I guess Pacey kind of knows how to do a boat because he like got a boat, but like Dawson doesn't know how to do a boat at all and get there in this like boat race. It's so dumb. And I mean Dawson's dad helped out, which was like OK, well, he must know a little more. But like the whole thing was it? I mean Dawson's dad helped out, which was like okay, well, he must know a little more, but like the whole thing was it was dumb guys, yeah, they said we got a bunch. It was really dumb.
Speaker 1:I did say the wall is back. Oh, I know, because, remember, pacey got her that wall and then we haven't seen it since. Now she's literally just staring at a blank wall the one and then Dawson is talking to her at it. But I was like, oh, my God, the wall is back. One of these days it'll be painted. Oh, and the painting was back. Oh, dawson and Joey, in the first second I can't. He was holding it in his lap. I can't. Ah, painting, oh, no, oh. And then go back to Aunt Gwen and then Joey at the wall, she goes. All I want to do, dawson, is paint my wall, and I'm like I wish you would. I wish you would fucking get started, instead of all these scenes of staring at it. Look, the next time I see this wall, joey Potter, there better be something on it. I think she does eventually paint it. I mean, I hope so. Well, we're going to find out, we're going to she does eventually paint it. I mean, I hope so. Well, we're gonna find out, we're gonna find out, I think she does.
Speaker 1:Um, I thought it was cute how everyone was helping grams make the wreaths for the regatta. I don't know, I just love this episode is so stupid. She's like this is what I do. I make wreaths for the regatta. I've done it every year since 1956, which I was like whoa. But then I was like well, I guess it wasn't like that long ago then. But what kind of East Coast nonsense Is this like typical? And there were so many, and then Jack was helping. Who else was there, was it Andy? Was it Jack and Andy and Jen and Andy? Yeah, and then Henry's outside with his sign Okay, cute, he was adorable. Come on, jen. I wrote down.
Speaker 1:I said Henry is kind of creepster vibes, even though I really don't want to think he is, but he's kind of creepster vibes, yeah, like when he climbed up a few episodes back in the rafters. Well, that episode was like red flag city and also being like come on and smooch me, even though you're stressed out, but that's just teenage boys. I mean, yeah, I don't think that's just, you know whatever. Yeah, I like the line where, uh, dawson's like I'm gonna join the regatta and jack's like is this like a pistols at dawn situation like a duel I thought that was a really funny line, well.
Speaker 1:And also like a fucking boat race. Is gonna show joey that you care about her. And then his like hello. His explanation of it later was really strange. It was it's like okay, but also that is such a straight man, straight white man's like point of view on something like for sure, if I do this, then this woman will whatever.
Speaker 1:And then, as soon as he's done, he's like I want, she's like no, I like you both are stupid idiots. And she was like you don't even know, you're disqualified, like you didn't win, right anyway. And then and this is kind of skipping to that point but then she's like why, why did you do this? I know like I want to show you through action. He's like because now you like the one who punched the bully and is in a boat race and I'm like, okay, shut up what. That's not why she likes him like weird, right so. And he's like I want to show you through action. I guess I can kind of see where you're coming from, but it's not gonna work, girl.
Speaker 1:Oh, and let's talk about Jen and grams, where Jen's out all night, oh, and she just casually comes home and grams like you spent the night with Henry, and she's like, yeah, and I'm like first of all. And then she's mad at Graham's no, ma'am, you were gone, you were a teenage girl, underage, living at home, and you didn't come home till sun is up. Yeah, graham has every right to be pissed off, absolutely. I don't give a shit what you were doing, although she had no idea where she was, right. That's not okay. And I think like maybe that's the emotionally chargedness that we see then with what Graham says, because I don't necessarily agree with what she says there. I don't even remember.
Speaker 1:She says something like you're reverting to your old ways and you should be ashamed of yourself and da-da-da-da-da, and like all of that was kind of like ugh. But if you've been waiting especially this is pre-cell phone yeah, that's what I mean. You can't track or you can't call and you've been sitting there panicking all night. Well, I mean, you're going to say some stuff you might regret. I mean, we've been there with our Well kids have been gone all night, but you've had that happen with one of your kids and it is terrifying, it is, and it's like no, that's not okay. Like you still live in my house, you are still under age. I need to know where you are and that you are safe A hundred percent. Yeah, I get her panic, I think.
Speaker 1:I think what she said was a little like we were supposed to be like Ooh, graham's like, but I just got irritated that Jen was like all salty and piss and then Graham had to come and apologize. No bitch, you were out all night, true, I think that's a teenage response though, I know, but I was, I know, but I was still, but it is irritating. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Then they made it seem like grant, I'm not granted. She did say some things weren't, but like Jen is the one who did wrong there, she should be apologizing. Yeah, yeah, 100%. And also, um, well, I lost my train of thought. It'll come back to me. Well.
Speaker 1:And then when her and grams kind of have their moment back together, because grams comes to her and she's like oh, I found, which was weird, I found this dress that was in a box I was like what. And she's like oh, it just reminded me how far you've come. I'm like what is going on? Yeah, that was weird, but essentially the conversation was I trust you. And so Grams is trying to talk to her about basically safe sex and consequences and all the things, and then Jen stops her and she's like I didn't have sex with Henry. And then Grams is like, oh, I'm so happy and I was like, okay, but. And I was like, okay, but like I still feel like everything you just said should be taken to, to note, right, yeah, but like that's how they end up making up and everything's like oh, you're doing so great and I support you, jen, but I'm also relieved you didn't have sex with henry. I don't know this.
Speaker 1:This episode was kind of a mess. It was a mess okay. Also, those boats looked so fucking cold the whole race looked. It looked freezing. It was like raining gross, no, so cold. And then dawson winning the race because he was being a dick like they're, like you gotta make room. And he was just like me. And I guess I don't understand boat racing I don't either.
Speaker 1:But, like when pacey's like we have the right of way, I'm like, isn't it a race? I don't know, like you're, are you saying you're allowed to get in front of him? I think there's etiquette. I mean, I don't know. I think there's like, aren't you just trying to get to the end point as fast as you can? Like you know, there's bike etiquette. When you're like on a bike race true, even running races, there's like etiquette. So okay, so maybe, and even more important, because, like you about to crash your fucking shit.
Speaker 1:Yes, I thought for sure they were gonna crash, um and not, but well, and then when dawson I mean when joey tells dawson, I wrote this down she said you don't want me, dawson, you just don't want to lose me. Well, and that's the truth. That is the truth. And that is the truth. He really doesn't. He's just he who wants to be wanted and he doesn't like it. That pacey is wanted and he is not totally.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting because I think throughout the series we see Dawson and Pacey and this happens with, like, jen and Joey too where they're very envious of each other for different reasons. Yeah, all the things that Dawson is that Pacey isn't he's envious of, and all the things that Pacey is that Dawson isn't he's envious of, which I think is normal. Yeah, I'm particularly growing up like in a small town, oh for sure, with a small circle of people, but now the Joey thing is like both, the thing they quote-unquote, want in their lives, and so Dawson's feeling, um, not as good as Pacey because she likes him now or something you know, which, again, yeah, a normal thing to feel. But I agree, agree with you, like, I'm like, why call it off now? Just dig in your heels, hold hands, Like whatever. Now you can be open about it. Now they know. Or is that the allure of the relationship, that it's secret? Is that what's making you like, want to be together? We'll find out, we're going to find out. There's two more, two more, or is it one more, two more? I think it's 22 and 23.
Speaker 1:And the famous Dawson crying scene is coming. Is it the last episode? It's in the last episode, okay, oh my God, I cannot wait for that. So we're basically within a week's time, or a week or two, seeing two of the most iconic James Van Der Beek things. Oh my God. Yes, in Varsity Blues we saw the I Don't Want your Life and then we're about to see the crying meme gone viral. I'm excited about that. Also, we never talked about. We just found out yesterday oh yeah, we did. This will be old news once y'all hear this episode that they are doing a Dawson's Creek live reunion where they're going to have a reading of the first episode. This is wild to me. And then, but they're I mean like obviously Kerr Smith and whoever played Andy, and like Busy Phillips she was also on there later. They weren't in the first episode, but they're still going to be there and they're going to talk about Katie and I want to go so bad. I want to go so bad. It's at the Richard Rogers Theater in New York City. It's in New York. The tickets do go on sale tomorrow. I may just try to get tickets and see what happens. I think they'll be impossible to get. They will be. Those theaters aren't very big either, but who knows, who knows? I did send a message to James Van Der Beek yesterday you and 50 million other people, I'm sure, from our account. Maybe we need to, by the way, all of them. We should send the same message to everybody. What did you say? I just can I pull it up and read it? It's really cringy because I was really second guessing myself. Okay, I can't wait. So it's not one of my more like eloquent ones. I can't, but I don't know if it works. It works. Hold on, I'm gonna pull it up. You know, when you're not like friends with someone on instagram, they don't always see it. It's not? Yeah, it's on instagram. Yeah, he probably has shit blocked like crazy, but other people may not. Oh my, my wi-fi is not working. Good, hold on, yeah, so I sent him, but I agree, or we should send, can, does it just, james vander? Can we like copy and paste it and send it to like curse? Yeah, well, I did say like we, we're, we're like thinking of you going through your struggle, so we'd have to take that part out. I can't pull it up. Can you pull it up on your phone and then you read it, or let me read it? Hand it to me and let me read it. Oh, here's my phone. Hold on, cause it won't be the same. Yeah, my phone's not not working. My phone be doing that up in your studio? It doesn't really. Are you on Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi? So I don't know what you are. Yeah, it could be my Wi-Fi. Ok, here it is OK. Here we go. Ok, oh, it's longer than I thought she's turning red. Oh, I can't wait. This is so good. Make sure you say dear James Vanderbeek, but it doesn't say that. I know, but what if we want to use this for real? Ok, dear James Vanderbeek, we are huge fans and always keeping you and your health journey in our hearts. Aw, we are rewatching Dawson's Creek from the beginning and each week we release a new podcast episode with our thoughts and some cultural throwbacks. We'd absolutely love for you to listen If you ever wanted, ever wanted. Why wouldn't he want to? We are thinking of you. Wait, oh no, you can listen to any of those episodes that didn't even send him a fucking link by searching generation. That makes me laugh, because you're like go search for us, go find us, she said. She said the algorithm will help you. You can listen to any of those episodes by searching Generation Inbetween, a Zinio podcast. Wherever you listen. Maybe we should follow up with a link. Maybe we should, because think jay has made him. Here's my thing. I'm picturing him. What if he just happened to open this up and he'd be like oh wow, that sounds cool. Oh, I have to go look for it. Bye, all right, we're gonna send him a link. I'm gonna send him a link. Do it, let's do it right now. Do it, let's do it right now. All right, I'm going to do it right now. All right, send him, well, the Apple one. Okay, let me grab it real quick. Oh, I'm sorry. No, that was really a good idea, though it was almost executed correctly. Oh, it was good, it was good. It's just sent him. That. That's hilarious. Yeah, I meant to. I was going to send you like a screenshot of it and be like look what I did. And then I just totally Maybe what we should do is a socials clip. Today we're wearing our matching shirt I think that's a great idea and tag all of them. There we go and put it on socials. There we go, there we are, and we put it on socials and tag all of them. I think so, but what would we say? Katie, we'll do this off camera. We're going to come up, all right. All right, stay tuned. Thank you everyone for listening. James Vanderbeek Question mark If you're here, we love you and send us the word mustard. Oh my God, what if that happened? It could happen. What if that happened? It could happen. That would be so cool. And we will see you in New York City, don't worry. Thanks everyone for listening. We'll see you next time.
