Dawson's Creek S3, E17 and E18: Pacey and Joey Kiss (Finally)

It finally happened! After a whole season of buildup, Joey and Pacey kiss in the final moments of Episode 17 -- but the back pedaling starts immediately in Episode 18. 

Join us as we rewatch and discuss Dawson's Creek, Season 3, two episodes at a time. We're watching on Hulu and Amazon Prime.

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Transcript

Recap of Dawson's Creek Season 3

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome back listeners to our rewatch of season three of Dawson's Creek. And today we are talking about episodes 17 and 18. And this is part of our nostalgic or problematic series or, as we've had it become, just us talking about. What do we think about this? What do we think about that? But thanks for listening. I'm Katie, by the way.

Speaker 2 0:24

Hello and I'm Dani. Yes, this is that. But, um, thanks for listening. I'm katie, by the way. Hello, and I'm danny. Yes, this is. We have evolved this into, uh, just re-watching and chatting, although, guys, I'm so gonna be real, I have the hardest time paying attention to this season until the end of the other, this next episode yes, I even said that.

Speaker 1 0:41

I said, man, this was boring until the last 30 seconds.

Speaker 2 0:43

like I caught myself. I'm sitting there, I'm looking, deleting, deleting emails. Like I hate it when my kids do that, like when they're doing three things at once. Yeah, cause I feel like attention spans these days of all of us are terrible. But I was doing it and I was like, cause I just don't care. Yeah, I need the season to come on and it's almost over, and then it's better again.

Speaker 1 1:05

Yes, I can't wait, I cannot wait. Okay, so what do we got?

Speaker 2 1:06

we got, oh, episode 17 is called cinderella story, and here's the summary. Joey learns there's someone else in aj's life and dawson tries to help his mother open the new restaurant. I hated this episode until the very end. Yeah, yep, because they kiss. At the end, finally, let's just say joey and casey kiss. You guys know there's gonna be spoilers.

Speaker 2 1:26

The show's fucking old, yeah, so they, they kiss at the end and I remember watching that and literally dying on the floor when that happened and then being like I have to wait a whole week to see what's gonna happen. And then I loved how the next episode they picked right back up in that moment.

Speaker 1 1:45

I actually thought about that when I was watching these, because I watched them right in a row and I was like, oh man, the episode would have just ended like that, and sometimes it's not even the next week.

Speaker 2 1:55

No, who knows it? Could have been a month later Actually, it probably was, because it was such a big, pivotal moment. It was probably like sweeps or something, yeah, and then they yeah, yeah, yeah. But we, we got to know what happened after that.

Speaker 1 2:06

But yeah so, oh, okay, true, on our regular episode we recorded today. I said I took a few little rabbit dives, so the first thing was oh, I know this song that was in the previous episode, mr green, goodbye mr green, whatever that you looked it up.

Speaker 1 2:23

I looked it up because I was like what is this song? So you were right because you said I wonder if the song got swapped out because of streaming rights. The original song that played there is called the lonesome road, or that lonesome road by james taylor oh, and I listened to it.

Speaker 1 2:42

It's very j Taylor-esque, very like, much better, chill, mellow, super great and and it's about like going your own way as opposed to this other one. So it was replaced by in in the garden by Terry Kelly it's a dumb name and even in a garden she's by a wall, but remember I told you the whole the lyrics were like yeah, teachers grow the children, so that's like the garden of life and the teachers. So it was a replacement song. So there you go, look at us that was the first one we're like solving them scooby-doo crew.

Speaker 1 3:15

Yeah, and I listened to just maybe, like I don't know a minute of the james taylor song. I was like oh yeah much better this is the vibe.

Speaker 1 3:20

But but like, think about this though they were recording this stuff in like 99, 2000, whatever to come out? When it came out, you wouldn't be thinking what if one day it's streaming somewhere else like all of? But if there was a box they needed these artists to check to be able to use their music, you best believe they were having them check that box right. So these were just things they couldn't foretell. Yeah, that then ended up happening, not just on here, but like all sorts of shows and movies. Yeah, reminded me, we got an email about this. We did, oh my God, yes, oh my God.

Music Rights and Nostalgic Songs

Speaker 2 3:55

Okay, so everyone, I saw this last night. We don't usually get emails from listeners. No Well, let's see if it's somebody you know in real life. Okay, we got an email from now. I got to find it. Oh, did I delete it? Oh wait, that's my business email.

Speaker 1 4:13

Hold on.

Speaker 2 4:14

Whoopsie, hold on. I didn't delete it because I was like, okay, ryan Flaherty, do you notice my name, ryan Flaherty? I don't Think so. All right, well, he said, wanted to follow up on your mention of season one having the original theme song. Season one is the only season with not just the original theme song but all the original music. So he said that season one is the only one that keeps the rights which we. We talked about that yeah, so I don't know where he's at in our, in our episodes. And then he said they not sure if you're aware of this or not, but someone had access to the original version of Dawson's Creek and was nice enough to post it on internet archives. All the episodes are in HD with the OG music. Oh, he said, pretty large improvement from Hulu, in my opinion. Just wanted to let you know Enjoy the pod, best of luck. Oh, that says Mary. So maybe Mary Flaherty, do you know it's my name, mary?

Speaker 1 5:07

Flaherty. We're going to have to look into her more. Thank you.

Speaker 2 5:13

Thank you so much, I know. So thanks a lot, mary. So then there's the link for it. It's on archiveorg. Okay, you can, I'll click on it.

Speaker 1 5:25

Now I'm can. I'll click on it now. I'm scared. What if, what?

Speaker 2 5:26

if this is a bot? What if this is just to get you, well, my phone, you just did I'm uh, well, shit. Now I'm going out of it because I'm scared.

Speaker 1 5:29

I I think it's probably safe, since she went into so much detail in that email.

Speaker 2 5:33

But still, that's very cool, I know. So yeah, I saw it last night, so I was trying to see what the email now then the well, I won't tell.

Speaker 1 5:42

I won't tell their email okay, anyway so we got about it well, thank you so much. And yeah, I just think that's such an interesting part of all of this.

Speaker 2 5:52

It is because I think the interesting part is how music can it, um, take away from a scene or put so much more into it? But you can't tell me they couldn't just make up some instrument, find some instrumental thing.

Speaker 1 6:07

It's weird. Whoever is replacing the music is not doing a good job. They need to not get a bonus at Christmas. No, not that person.

Speaker 2 6:15

So anyway, okay.

Speaker 1 6:16

So then the next thing I well, the first thing I said, other than that little rabbit hole, was Pacey's Station Wagon. I know I love it so much. Every time I see it I'm like, oh my gosh. And he's like so again. Not great writing in these episodes, but he's like so obviously jealous, I know, as he's driving Joey, he's like, well, you guys are going to, you know, you guys are going to have fun, that's your boyfriend. And she's like no, he's just a friend. Friend, a friend that you kiss. A friend, you kiss yeah. And I was like, oh my god, he is.

Speaker 1 6:48

But I love him so much and his acting is so good that I was, that I still enjoy this so you see why I'm still like a joshua jackson stan.

Speaker 2 6:54

Yeah, he's great. He's great, she's coming over guys. James vanderbeek, watch out, you're about to lose her. Wow, season four, not yet I'll be back.

Speaker 1 7:03

I'll be back for season four. Um, okay, so gail's restaurant is about to open and she doesn't have a chef. I know she has no menu, but she's opening in a week. What? What's going on?

Speaker 2 7:14

how you gonna have a restaurant and no chef yeah, like how isn't?

Speaker 1 7:19

I mean I don't know, I've never opened a restaurant, but isn't that kind of the core of your concept, like what the actual food is going to be? Yeah, and then, yeah, I mean it. It was kind of funny then, cause then they were bringing in all these chefs, okay, but where are they?

Speaker 1 7:33

finding all these chefs in Cape side and they're terrible, they're all terrible, hilarious, like the ones like they did the um flambe, and he's like, oh, there's a bunch of like burnt fish bones on the ceiling. Still I don't know, they were all terrible. Anyway, I thought that was interesting. Oh so funny. And then the kid from jerry mcguire ah, yeah, the kid jonathan lip nicky. Yeah, so I I had to backtrack on that because, wait, when was jerry mcguire 96. Yeah, so he was younger. He just looks so young in this episode too. I think he's just a wee one. But he looked even younger back in Jerry Maguire because he was. So I looked him up too. He's so funny.

Speaker 2 8:14

I know I love him and he was in some commercials Like what was he in it?

Speaker 1 8:18

was like Jell-O or something.

Speaker 2 8:20

I think it was Jello, something like that. He's just or Welch's. Yeah, all the kids were in like he was adorable and he made the rounds for a while and like random cameos and stuff, yeah, and then whatever happened to him, I wonder.

Speaker 1 8:33

I pulled up like a current picture. He stayed in acting.

Speaker 2 8:38

Has he yeah.

Speaker 1 8:38

Yeah, yeah, both on stage and in theater.

Speaker 2 8:41

Good for you, jerry.

Speaker 1 8:42

Maguire kid Jerry Maguire kid, and I loved how he called Pacey pissy Pissy.

Speaker 2 8:47

I was cracking up. That was so good. I'm so here for an amateur joke like that with a name Pissy.

Speaker 1 8:53

Pissy and it was kind of elevated for a kid his age. I felt like Like pissy, that feels like a middle school joke, but he was supposed to be what like Nine or 10?.

Speaker 2 9:03

My kids where I said that when they were 10.

Speaker 1 9:05

They'd call someone that, well, cooper would. Well, there you go, there you go.

Speaker 2 9:12

What else do?

Speaker 1 9:12

you have so far.

Speaker 2 9:13

Pokemon. Yeah, that's what I got. Pikachu Pokemon still relevant man, I know Like, listen, my house still has Pokemon cards, even my husband, like it's still relevant, Pokemon's still going, which I think when something lasts, just like vans we talked about vans, the checkered vans when a product can last through different generations of kids and go follow you into adulthood, that's some great branding, so amazing, so good.

Speaker 1 9:43

Yeah, I mean as soon as he said it, I was like wow, you know how sometimes, a lot of times when we're watching the show, we're like, oh, remember that thing. Oh, my God, remember that when that was a thing To mention, something that's still so much a thing and it's.

Speaker 2 9:56

I guess maybe it's waned and come back a little, but it's never died off, it's never died off because, like, my kids have gone to and fro with phases of collecting cards and Cooper's kind of back in a phase now but like, for instance, we were at Target getting school supplies and he was like, or we were getting Kate in his dorm room stuff, cooper's like I'm going to go see I think that they don't target and other stores don't tell people when they're going to restock the Pokemon cards because then they'll get a rush on them. So they just do them randomly and we just so happen to be there when they restock some kind of nonsense that he wanted to get and he spent some birthday money.

AJ's Secret and Joey's Heartbreak

Speaker 1 10:34

But I'm like that's crazy because even still, like my kids go back and forth, but I think pokemon has stayed true, my son likes pokemon too and he's, he thinks, figured out when they restock at our local Walmart, nice, and I remember, cause it was like one morning it was early, you know, I'm not that he's not up that early, but it was earlier than I would have expected him to be at, maybe like six, 30. And I'm like what's up Like, are you?

Speaker 1 10:59

working or going to the gym, Like what's happening. He's like nah, I think they're about to restock the Pokemon cards Pokemon drop, he went out the door and he came back with some Pokemon cards Because listen.

Speaker 2 11:09

once they drop, they're gone. I've seen it happen. It's crazy, so that was a fun little reference, yeah that was cute, okay.

Speaker 1 11:19

So, oh, my God, I didn't write down AJ's friend's name. What's her name? I didn't either. Well, whatever, whatever name, what's her name? I didn't either. Well, that, whatever, something. So, so joey is supposed to meet, so she's going to see aj, the college guy. She's supposed to meet him, like pacey's dropping her off, but this girl meets her. Yeah, on rollerblades. They end up rollerblading to where aj is just too busy to be bothered to go pick up Joey or meet Joey. Red flag.

Speaker 2 11:48

Yeah, also, I kept thinking of you on Rollerblades singing Mariah Carey. Yeah, I kind of looked like that girl on Rollerblades.

Speaker 1 11:55

You did, you had that haircut. Yeah, I did, your hair was blonde. Yeah, you were way tanner, way tanner than her.

Speaker 2 12:01

You guys. Katie had this picture. We had to put it in socials.

Speaker 1 12:04

It's so bad, she was so tan I looked like you could touch me and my skin would slough off.

Speaker 2 12:11

I 100% thought that it was body paint or something. That's how tan she was. It was crazy.

Speaker 1 12:22

We'll share it. Listeners. If you won it, tell us who else saw it.

Speaker 2 12:25

Oh, Jen, One of our Jen friends. Oh yeah, she was. Share it, listeners. If you won it, tell us who else saw. Oh jen, one of our jen friends. Oh yeah, she was like oh my god, but listen, guys, that was the hotness, you could see me from space and that particular thing.

Speaker 1 12:36

I had been going tanning for a spring break trip and then the picture was taken on the spring break tip trip, so I had been artificially tanning and then probably five or six days of actually tanning in the sun when that picture was taken.

Speaker 2 12:49

Girl.

Speaker 1 12:51

No, and I had a little midriff and it was as tan as can be it was.

Speaker 2 12:56

I've never had a tan midriff in my entire life.

Speaker 1 12:59

I mean, I definitely don't now. I'm trying to think when is the?

Speaker 2 13:03

last time my stomach's seen the sun, I don't know yeah.

Speaker 1 13:06

I wore a two piece to the beach, maybe three or four years ago, not like a bikini or anything, but like where my little bit of my stomach was out and I wore sunscreen and got burned on the only spot that burned was that part of my tummy and I was like that's because it literally never sees the light of day back in. It's like I live in a cave and it's okay.

Speaker 1 13:28

I don't belong out here. Please put me back where I am safe. Oh my god, yeah, it hurts right there too, so I'm right there.

Speaker 2 13:34

Yeah, you're like sit down. Yeah, I'm like on your shirt and anyway, moving on from today, okay, so so.

Speaker 1 13:40

And then I just said aj is so lame. I just I said why is?

Speaker 2 13:43

aj so dull, but that's how they wrote him, like he did not need to be in the whole. I hated that. I don't know, I just the season is. Yeah, I did like the Jen being gone jokes.

Speaker 1 13:54

That's what I was just about to say yeah, and how she just shows up. She's like hey guys, remember me or whatever.

Speaker 1 13:59

And Dawson's like wait a minute, where are you? Who? Who are you? So I looked it up and I just asked like google or whatever, like where was michelle williams in season three of dawson's creek? And I got like a couple answers. I didn't really answer. It was like, oh, she was there the whole time. She shouldn't have a prominent storyline. But then I found one where she was in an article with people magazine, maybe like five or six years ago, just in general, talking about her time at dawson's Creek and how it launched her career, and she views it fondly, like it was a positive article and in it it mentions that, for example, at Dawson's Creek they would let her leave to go work on other projects and come back. And one was the 2001 film Me Without you, which would have been filming when this season was filming.

Speaker 1 14:47

So that's why she's not in as much and why she doesn't really have a really prominent storyline, because she wasn't going to be available. This was 99, though, but the her film came out in 2001, so they filmed for two years. I mean, yeah, sometimes I mean maybe it wasn't that one, but I just thought the timing probably lined up. Maybe, Maybe not, though, because this came out in 99. Well you know what? Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 15:11

So maybe she was doing something else.

Speaker 1 15:13

So let's see then in future seasons if she disappears, for a while, because if it's in four or five we'll know it was this one. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it might be a little late for that, but she probably was doing something Something yeah, because she gave that example, but she was saying they would let me do this thing, so that's probably what happened.

Speaker 2 15:31

So I'm sure it was more than once.

Speaker 1 15:33

That was funny when she showed up and she was a terrible waitress, that'd be me. And then the writing around AJ's friend and the girlfriend, just all of that was just so cringy. It was just annoying, like this scene with Joey and her the girl whose name now I can't remember Morgan, that's her name, morgan. Yeah, morgan, sorry Um.

Speaker 2 15:56

I, I, I hurt my hip the other day, guys, when I was teaching class and I was icing my pack and I have to take it off.

Speaker 1 16:02

I'm proud of you. Um so she for hurting me, hurting just no, for where we're doing your ice pack. Okay, you go, good job taking care of yourself. Um so she that, yeah, that scene where just her and morgan and it went on forever and it's like you're in the audience going obviously she likes him obviously he likes her and joey's like. So when did you meet and what do you know about this and what do you know about that?

Speaker 1 16:28

and it was like we get it, like there's something here and joey gets it too, I and I felt like all they did was like write dawson and joey with two other characters well, and I think they were trying to show.

Speaker 1 16:42

I know, but it was annoying yeah, I like, like when he gets up there and reads his thing that he's getting a creative writing award for that again. Hello, I've never won a creative writing award and I could write better than that. And he's like it's the girl he knew forever and a love he never saw coming. And I was like what is this? And yes, it was supposed to, I think, be parallel to like the boston joe and for joey to be like I know what this is and I know what that's like.

Gail's Restaurant Disaster

Speaker 1 17:11

It's like I don't know I know it was, it just could have done without it I know I don't yeah it wasn't wasn't well done I don't have big um yeah, I thought it was cute when pacey was oh, and the little boy, the jerry mcguire boy's name, was buzz, which is so funny. Um, he was telling Buzz about Joey, yeah, and the little boy's like, is she pretty? Oh, no, he goes. Is she a hottie? Is she a hottie? And he's like, oh, and he's trying to be respectful about it, but he's like, yeah, you know, she's pretty.

Speaker 2 17:40

Is she a hottie yeah?

Speaker 1 17:42

that was really, really cute. And he's like talking to him about it. So then when joey kind of confronts, um, aj has like obviously you like her, but but like she's like kind about it, sort of she's like oh but.

Speaker 2 17:54

I understand and I'm gonna leave you now to, because I think there's somewhere you need to be and I'm just like what is happening and then she's such a bitch to pacey and he fucking comes, picks her ass up in the middle of the night all the way and she don't talk to him. She's like I don't want to talk about it. I was like no ma'am, no ma'am, that is so bitchy.

Speaker 1 18:17

Yeah, or just be like I'm upset. Thank you for picking me up. Yes, I don't want to delve into it.

Speaker 1 18:23

She was such a bitch. Yeah yeah, it was bad. And then but I did think it was cute she called him from a pay phone, oh I know. And then Gail and Mitch's restaurant plan. So everything's falling apart. Mitch shows up to help because Dawson invited him. Gail's upset that Dawson called Mitch. She's like I don't need any help, which clearly she needs help. So then they've got all of a sudden this new plan, and the new plan is that Bodhi's gonna come over just on, like the evenings, but then, like the daytime and the weekends, he'll still be at the bed and breakfast so you just work 24 hours 20 of the business, but he's gonna bring his I don't know and then, and then Jen can't be a waitress anymore, but she's gonna be a hostess, and it's like a whole thing.

Speaker 1 19:05

And it's like, yes, everything go, team, you know, and I just like okay but you like that in a sitcom, I do.

Speaker 2 19:13

This isn't a sitcom it's not this is a drama.

Speaker 1 19:16

This is a drama and then I I just said I didn't love this episode, but the ending was great.

Speaker 2 19:21

The ending is the best and I saved it. The reason why the ending's so good is because I remember watching it when it was like in real time and having to wait, yeah, yeah, and you're like that's part of the reason I think these teen shows were so good. I haven't, I haven't watched like recent days ones, so I don't know if that's still there. Is that anticipation of like, that tension of like is it going to happen, is it going to happen? And then it does. I was like is it going to happen, is it going to happen? And then it does, and then it's not what you think. And then, oh, so good, so good. Yeah, I don't have anything else.

Speaker 1 19:51

No, I'm good on that one. Let's go to 18.

Speaker 2 19:53

Season three, episode 18 is called Neverland and we're going to do this quick because Katie has to go get her bougie dogs from the Hair Day place.

Speaker 1 20:12

And I tell you, one month is probably causing trouble and that's why they've called me to come get 100 percent, um, okay. So as pacey sets out to tell dawson about his feelings for joey, she looks to avoid another kiss. I don't know why. Come on, joey. Um. So the first thing I wrote is joey freaking out so like she was mean on the drive, and then she's like mad at him for kissing her, which it's weird, because it's like was it consensual, was it not? It looked like it was, but I don't know. Yeah, so she's all mad at him, um, and I thought it was so. Then that scene ends badly because they go their own ways and she's upset with him and he's like oh man, like why did I do that? I thought it was. This was good writing, in my opinion. We have to point it out when we see it that they both confided in their siblings.

Speaker 2 20:49

I liked that back and forth. That was fun and the siblings both told them something separate. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 20:55

Yeah. So like I thought that was really cute and Pacey and Dougie having a like serious talk about relationships and stuff was cool, and then Joey and Bessie they always are talking about that stuff, but thought and different advice yeah why were they?

Speaker 2 21:10

why did they make breakfast and go sit outside and it's like cold? Oh, I didn't even notice that people in cold places.

Speaker 1 21:16

I did not eat, I don't I might sit by like the window if it's sunny and like admire the cold outside, but I would not go sit in the cold they like made a big old breakfast and then they go sit outside, not even wearing jackets.

Speaker 2 21:31

I always notice stuff like that, Cause I hate being cold and I'm like that food would be freezing in two seconds.

Speaker 1 21:36

Like what are you doing outside?

The Pivotal Kiss and Aftermath

Speaker 2 21:37

Get back in there. Anyway, I loved Andy's little when she's trying to plan their girls night and she's like that. We all need an estrogen energy boost. I loved it. I get that. I live with all males. I totally get that there's. I don't remember what was happening, but oh, okay, I do. So I had to get oldest kid dorm supplies and then the youngest one just needs like regular school supplies but it's middle school so we don't know everything he needs yet.

Speaker 2 22:08

But I was like we're not doing it in the same day because the dorm stuff was a lot, but you know the youngest is bored so I was like we'll just come with us to target you guys. These are 18 year old and a 13 year old males. When you take them to a store together, they act like they three. And males when you take them to a store together, they act like they three and I'm serious, they be like fighting. At one point, I kid you not, caden had on one cleaning glove and was carrying around some other kind of apparatus chasing Cooper down the vacuum aisle to beat him with whatever he had.

Speaker 1 22:50

Meanwhile you're pushing two carts full of dorm stuff.

Speaker 2 22:53

Yes, and I'm like can y'all please? I thought, and then I was like I thought that we were past this. The answer is no.

Speaker 1 23:03

Boys, be boyin'.

Speaker 2 23:04

It don't matter. And then I was like y'all remember some of the crazy stuff y'all used to do when you were younger. I'd take you to places. So we proceeded to talk about those memories. Let me give you some. Okay, one time we went to Target. I don't even know how old they are, because there's almost a six-year age gap, so Cooper was teeny for a lot of stuff. Kaden was probably about nine, all right, and it was when Fortnite, when everybody was like into the Fortnite, which is probably about right. Has it been around nine years? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 23:34

And we go to Target and they had all those hoodies. Do you remember the hoodies where you could put it over your face? Yes, and it was like mesh. So they had all these Fortnite ones and I was literally just trying to get them like socks and underwear, like basic shit. I turn around, they're both wearing these things running around and I'm like, can we just not? Okay, so I remember that. Then I remember one time I had to get something from party city. I and I'm like not paying attention, turn around.

Speaker 2 24:02

They both have on big giant turd like poop hat Do you know what I'm talking about and big bananas or something, and they're sword fighting in the middle of the and I'm like, so embarrassed because they're so loud, yeah, and I'm like, and they're like, oh, remember that time also we put on those Trump masks. And I'm like, and they're like, oh, remember that time also we put on those Trump masks. Yes, and this was before the presidency, and that we were somewhere and they it was around Halloween time and they had those big, big faces and they were playing. You can't touch this. I have them on video wearing these Trump faces and dancing to MC Hammer.

Speaker 2 24:37

Now, this all sounds hilarious and funny and oh, how fun it's not. It's really not when you're just trying to get shit done and everybody else is there trying to get school supplies. I love it, though. I can laugh at you, you can laugh at me, but I was like, seriously and I mean it was fine, it was fine, but I was like God, you, you guys, I just, I just can't. It's just the way it is.

Speaker 1 24:58

It is just the way it is. Anyway, oh my God, I love it.

Speaker 2 25:02

All right, sorry, we're supposed to be hurrying up.

Speaker 1 25:04

Oh no, You're good, oh estrogen energy boost.

Speaker 2 25:06

I get it. And then she said isn't it strange the two of you never hang out with anyone without a penis? I was dying and their faces are Would be terrible.

Speaker 1 25:16

That would be awful. Well, but one line I didn't agree with that. Andy said she goes. Other girls don't have problems like these.

Speaker 2 25:23

Oh, that's not true, and I was like every girl has problems like that.

Speaker 1 25:27

What? Yeah, but everything that followed that I liked and the girls night out and Andy's like little solidarity speech and I loved it. That Buzz the cute kid was back.

Speaker 2 25:37

Yeah, he's back.

Speaker 1 25:38

He's so adorable and him and pacey are just good for each other. I know they just are, um, okay. So the dad yep, yeah, thoughts, because I really felt like he was trying. I did too and and I understand jack yesting his intentions, like when he comes in the room and they're playing chess, him and the guy who's visiting from out of town and sits there, jack took it as oh you're watching us.

Speaker 1 26:09

Yeah, but at least the way it was set up or whatever, it didn't feel like that. It felt like he was coming in to hang out, right. And then when they go to dinner, they're hanging out and he's bonding with the friend. And then when they go to dinner, they're hanging out and he's bonding with the friend. So I get where Jack is coming from, because it feels very whatever. But then when he says something to the dad, like well, you've acted like I'm like an alien from another planet until right now, it's kind of weird. And he tells him you know, yeah, my friend's son got arrested for something. And I just thought to myself you know, my kid is so good, I have such a good kid and I, I know like even in my own life I've like had those moments where I'm like not and wording is everything.

Speaker 1 26:50

I don't necessarily think any kids are bad, but like situational stuff, like um, that you can be like wow, you know I get upset with them for for leaving laundry around, which is really annoying and they shouldn't do that. But like also, they're like not, they don't do drugs and they're not out. You know, like stealing from people or you know what I mean and I know everything's relative Right, but I really thought that, like that writing was pretty good because I think you can have a change of heart about that stuff pretty good, because I think you can have a change of heart about that stuff.

Speaker 2 27:22

Well, I do think that it's never too late to change anything. Yeah, as long as you're alive, there is time to change your mind.

Speaker 2 27:30

I have changed my mind. We've talked about this. We have changed our minds about all kinds of things. I have changed my viewpoint on big, giant things.

Speaker 2 27:38

Lots of times I've had to apologize to my kids for saying, hey, I taught you something that I thought was like wrong or whatever. And I don't think that anymore. And kids are like way more cool about that than adults. Agree, they're just like all right, so you don't think they were cool. The older we get, the more we want to just keep people in a category. Sure, which I think that's what happened here. Jack had his dad and bad guy category and that's where you stay. But also, jack, I understand your dad's a dick and he's treated you kind of shitty, but like you still live in his house, he pays for you to live there and you say I'm going to have over whoever I want. No bitch, that ain't. No, I'm going to have over whoever I want. No bitch, that ain't. No, you do not. You are still a child and a minor who is being supported by that man, whether you like it or not. Right?

Speaker 1 28:25

And you know the type of relationship aside. Yes, he's still having over someone older than him. Right To stay overnight. And you should ask it's your dad's house? You should ask yeah, because stay overnight. And you should ask it's your dad's house. You should ask you know, because you need to be sure they're a safe person and your kid's going to be safe and you know. So I just yeah, I did not like that part. Yeah, I thought. I thought Jack's behavior was not it.

Jack's Relationship with His Father

Speaker 2 28:50

Yeah, it was out of line and I thought that the dad seemed genuine.

Speaker 2 28:54

Yeah, I really thought he was trying and I like that Um, but you know the thing is and I don't remember how I said this um, I did say it's never too late to change, but you do have to work through the healing part of it. Yeah, like there was still a lot of like. You can't just say, okay, I'm different, let's move on. That's not how it works. We had to go through some of that with you know, my sister and she'd be fine Me sharing this um, uh, when she came out of rehab, because you know part of the 12 steps is making amends. But you can't just be like I'm sorry for the shit I did when I was drunk or high or whatever, okay, but you still cause some stuff.

Speaker 1 29:39

We need to kind of work through Right Right, so that's kind of the tip of the iceberg Right.

Speaker 2 29:44

So with great I'm glad you're changed, but like y'all still have to work through some of the shit that hurt, because you really did hurt your kid and you have to deal with that.

Speaker 1 29:54

You have to face those repercussions now. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, writing wise, everyone in this whole episode is so nostalgic for being 10. Everyone just keeps talking about remember when we were 10. And here's a time capsule from when we were 10. Yeah, and then the girls are like remember when you were 10? And you could just be dirty and not wear makeup and not care about boys and be the same as boys and all this stuff, and I'm like I mean, I guess that was the through line, yeah, but I was just like, oh okay.

Speaker 2 30:23

I did love when Joey said all I want to do is eat ice cream, pretend to be a kid and forget about boys.

Speaker 1 30:29

Yeah, I was like oh girl, yes to that Really.

Speaker 2 30:34

There are. There are so many times where I'm like I don't, I just want to have no responsibilities yeah, except myself.

Speaker 1 30:42

Yeah, a hundred percent, right, oh yeah, yeah Like cause.

Speaker 2 30:46

That's the best, that's what it is, that's the best part of being a kid for most people, cause not all kids have a great sunny experience, right, but I think when people look back on their childhoods, that's the biggest piece is you don't. You're not responsible for nobody but yourself. Usually, there are traumatic situations where you are.

Speaker 1 31:07

But kind of that carefree moment. I also think that 10 is the age it's a little different now, but it's right before. You're super aware of how people perceive you and you know the brain development that happens there. So it's sort of your last true age or era again not for all children, but generally speaking where you kind of don't care what other people think.

Speaker 1 31:32

And then it kind of slowly starts to change and then you kind of get it back a little bit, and then you get it back a little more the older you get, but you never really get back to that place. Yeah, and so I mean, I guess I understand the nostalgia for it.

Speaker 2 31:45

Um, oh, the old photos that pacey and dawson had out you know what that whole scene made me sad for my kids and my husband, because my, my husband was a military kid.

Speaker 2 31:54

My kids are military kids. They don't have that like shared childhood friend experience because we've moved, you know, and like for you know, like your kids probably have gone to school with some kids almost their whole school life. We don't have that and I'm like man, that makes me kind of because I had that and I'm like it makes me sad because none of them experience like I need some message. I'm still a friend, I'm still in contact with my, my oldest childhood friend that lived down the street from me, and I need to message her because I not vividly what is the opposite of vivid, vaguely, there you go Remembered us doing a time capsule behind the bush of some neighbors thing which probably drowned 80, 100, because I'm sure we didn't bury it deep enough. But I swear I remember us doing that and I need to message her and be like did we really do that or did I dream it, or did we talk about it and not do?

Speaker 1 32:52

it, but it made me sad. I was like, oh, they don't have that.

Speaker 2 32:53

Oh, I grew up with this person and our parents have known each other. They don't have that. I don't have that. Like, oh, I grew up with this person and, yeah, our parents have known each other, like we. Just they don't have, I don't have that either.

Speaker 1 33:01

Yeah, my family moved a lot, yeah, when I was a kid and even when we were like back in like their hometown, their siblings all didn't live there. And so right my, my oldest friends that I still have now. I met when I was probably 12 or 13, which is still. It's just a long long time.

Speaker 1 33:19

And I'm still friends with a lot of my college friends, but I don't have like anybody that like I grew up next to that I've been with since kindergarten and, as true I don't know, is like surface level or trivial as it seems like. I get a lot of satisfaction when I think about my kids from that knowing, like, wherever they go, like this was and that's probably because I didn't have it. It doesn't mean it's better, it doesn't mean it's a different experience. It is a different experience. It doesn't mean it's a better experience, but like to me, I think, because I didn't have it, I clock it as okay. Well, they can go anywhere in the world now, but they're always going to have they have a hometown, that hometown.

Speaker 2 34:00

Yeah.

Speaker 1 34:00

Those friends they always had, yeah, those those shared experiences with each other that they've. They've literally all gone to the same schools. They've had a lot of the same teachers like that. My teens have some of the same friends like that they've had forever, you know. So they have all had the same neighbors, you know. So it's it's an interesting component. Um, that I think is a nice to have. I don't know that it like really changes anyone's trajectory one way or another, it's, I don't know.

Time Capsules and Childhood Nostalgia

Speaker 2 34:29

I think that like, for instance, too, like I don't like going to my hometown, like I will never live there again, you know what I'm saying, like it holds way too many bad memories even still. I hate going there. I just I really miss the food. I would go for the food Literally. Guys, you don't even understand. I was there like less than a week when my mom died. I gained like so also because everything there is so sodium heavy Like I Water weight Could not button my pants for a few weeks Like I Worth it Worth every bite I felt terrible.

Speaker 1 35:06

Oh well, maybe not then. Well, I mean for lots of reasons, but anyway, yeah, well, yeah, that's true Time capsule.

Speaker 2 35:10

Okay, so we're running out of time. We are those kids, those little kids just randomly show up and then Pacey calls their parents and the parents are like, okay, two random teenage boys I've never met. Sure, let our kids sleep in the woods.

Speaker 1 35:27

Yeah, that was weird. It was cute for the storyline, but it was weird. And then, well and just quickly, henry's birthday party. So my biggest issue with this I get why he didn't invite Jen, because he was kind of embarrassed by it. He thought it was kind of childish. But Jen is like underwhelmingly not upset about it the whole episode I know.

Speaker 1 35:44

She's saying she's upset, and she's not upset, like I'd be throwing hands. Yeah, she's like, oh, you're having a party without me. And then she's in the next scene. She's like, yeah, kind of like when your boyfriend has a party without you. I know, and I was like girl, I would be so pissed, I would be, so I would be finding that party, I'd be burning pinatas. Like hello Dang, I would have been burning pinatas Seriously.

Speaker 2 36:08

That's serious.

Speaker 1 36:09

They're not people, they're. So it's fine Hashtag burning pinatas 2025. But she just, especially as a teenager, I know someone keeping like something like a party from me and it's like my boyfriend. I would have been so mad he invited football players. Yeah Well, maybe because devil's advocate, maybe they've been his friends a long time.

Speaker 2 36:34

Like the new girlfriend.

Speaker 1 36:36

I don't know he's trying to act mature, for I don't know, I didn't like that, but anyway, yes, guys, I have to go get my dogs, but we're kind of at the end, so that's good. We're getting to the end of the season. Make sure you listen to our other Zennial Girl Summer episodes. Get caught up if you have been busy, like us Cause they're over.

Speaker 1 36:52

If you want to binge them on your Labor Day weekend trip, oh smart, do that then, and we'll be back with some more Dawson's Creek and some other content soon. We don't know what yet. We haven't planned anything for the fall.

Speaker 2 37:03

We're going to figure it out. We're going to figure it out, don't you worry.

Speaker 1 37:06

All right, everybody, thanks so much. See you later, bye, Bye.