.png)
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek S3, E15 and E16: Principal Greene and Mural Dilemmas
Remember those Chinese symbol tattoos and decorations that were everywhere in the late '90s? That cultural moment comes roaring back in our latest Dawson's Creek rewatch as Joey creates a mural that gets vandalized by the wealthy school bully Matt Caulfield.
When Pacey reveals that Dawson asked him to "take care of" Joey in his absence, her justifiable outrage at being treated like a possession creates yet another setback in their developing romance. TAdd in Andie's moral dilemma about her PSAT cheating and Jen's surprising absence, and you've got classic Dawson's Creek drama that somehow feels both completely of its time and surprisingly current.
These two episodes surprised us with their relevance - what do you think?
Rewatch Season 3 with us on Hulu or Amazon Prime.
Leave us a glowing review wherever you listen to podcasts, and connect with Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast at all the places below:
Patreon
TikTok
Instagram
Facebook
Email us at generationinbetweenpodcast@gmail.com
Request an episode topic here
Hello everyone and welcome back to our Nostalgic or Problematic series, which I think now we've just become our thoughts in general. We watched a show here's what we think Supposed to be nostalgic or problematic and has become just thoughts. But we are rewatching Dawson's Creek and we are on season three. We have now reached towards the end of this season. We've we had there's 23 episodes. We're going to talk about episode 15 and 16 today. We are not fans of season three. No, writing sucks.
Speaker 1:There's only one good thing that happens in season three and it's the Dawson and Joey thing. But the next few episodes you're just in torture and Dawson and Joey thing. But the next few episodes you're just in torture and Dawson and Joey I sorry, you mean yeah, yeah, okay, bobby, which is a big, awesome thing. Yeah, and we love that. We're not. We're here for the tension and I'm here for that couple dumb. And did you see? So many people sent me the thing about him Joshua Jackson and Katie Holmes making a movie together. Yes, so many people sent it to me and I was like I cannot wait, living, living for this. And they both look so cute and they look like, look like their age, probably really good for their age because they're good looking people, but they look like grownups. Money buys you good looks guys. Well, that's true, keeps you, keeps you looking well, yeah, well, for most people, for most people, money can buy you things that don't make you look good Exactly, but that's another story. But they have taken care of themselves, yeah, and they look great, and I am here for them because they have chemistry on screen. They really do, and you'll see that once they finally get together, which is not these two episodes, not yet. Not these two episodes episodes, but it does happen. And oh well if I spoiled it for you. The show is super old, so, too bad, stop listening now if you're offended, all right.
Speaker 1:So episode 15 is crime and punishment. This had a very long description, which is weird, because usually it's like odd sentences. This one's very long. Pacey seeks revenge following a vandal's attack on Joey's school mural. Andy's guilt over her cheating intensifies after learning the results of her college entrance exam. It's very long. That was kind of long, I know. Yeah, usually it's like they go to a field party and andy is sad, or something like that. Yeah, it's usually pretty short, all right, so let's jump in. Yes, intro.
Speaker 1:So the opening scene I wrote the same thing. I said pacey has a sister. I wrote Pacey and sisters question mark because we've talked about this before, like in this season we're like, wait, he said something about sister and his mom, he said something about his mom and he said something about his mom again in this episode and I'm like where did they come from? I know who is this family and why are we not? I don't know, we don't know enough about. The only one we know about is Dougie. Is Doug and his dad? It's weird. So I always assumed it was just Doug and his dad. Yeah, so apparently he has multiple sisters and a mom and a mom Like living there. Anyway, yeah, I said the same thing.
Speaker 1:So in the intro, joey's painting this mural, I painting this mural. I gotta say I know this mural. It's chinese symbols, which was super popular in the mainstream. That cultural appropriation tactic was living it. It was very at that time. Yeah, I didn't love the mural, I know.
Speaker 1:And pacey says something like, oh, like she's oh, you don't like it, and he's like oh, not really like, and kind, you don't like it. And he's like, oh, not really Like, and kind of says what we're sort of just saying, of course, no one should have defaced it, like no bad, bad, bad. But I was kind of like, kind of like when she did the sketch of Jack in the art class and then they showed you the sketch and I was like what? Who made this? I don't know, I feel like she could have had any other mural. But then I appreciated what she said, where she's like.
Speaker 1:This was later, after yeah, she's talking to her sister or somebody, or maybe it was dawson and she was like what am I supposed to do? Like a lighthouse or a football game, like why does it always have to be? And then someone did a lighthouse, right, but she's right, it doesn't have to be that what is expected. But also, she is not. She had no business taking chinese right, or I'm assuming it was chinese writing right, that's what they said a couple times. Yeah, uh, I can't remember.
Speaker 1:And using that, that is cultural appropriation at its finest. Yeah, it doesn't really make sense for her now if she had been to china and had like a life changing experience and had some personal connection to the right. But is that still her business? I don't know. I mean it would make a little more sense than just being like, hey, I'm this white girl from Massachusetts who's been nowhere ever and I'm going to make a mural with and I do not have Chinese heritage and I don't even. I only know what this means because I looked it up Like, yeah, I didn't love it, I don't love it, I didn't love it, but it was very of the time.
Speaker 1:I will give it that I was all over the place. Hello, I had a whole apartment. Well now, granted, it was Japanese stuff because my grandpa was in the military and they lived in Okinawa for a long time and while they were there, my grandma this is gonna make sense. I was like my grandma bought a bunch of like local China, like dishes and stuff and um decorations and artwork and stuff and she kept it. And when I lived by myself, I took that like she, like she didn't use it in her apartment, so I brought it into my apartment and decorated with it. It's kind of cringy because it was like passed down cultural appropriation, but I don't know if it really was because she bought it from the people who made it like right and she lived, it, benefited their culture like right. If she didn't, I don't want to say it on amazon, not that she could have ordered it on amazon, but she bought the goods from the people who made it Right, I don't know, but I was thinking of, like, my cringy like, and it was around this time, it was like 20. Yeah, 2001. Yeah, yeah, but anyway, it was a big thing in fashion and in decor of the time.
Speaker 1:And tattoos Did you have that? Did you put chopsticks in your hair? No, I never did, I. And tattoos Did you have that? Did you put chopsticks in your hair? No, I never did. Oh, I did. Yeah, that was a whole thing. I actually had, like, again with my grandma, I had a real set of Chinese handmade chopsticks, like in a case and everything, and I put those in my hair. Guys, oh, that's rough. What was I doing? What was I doing? What were any of us doing with those types of things?
Speaker 1:Man, um, when dawson's talking to joey and she's nervous then about um revealing them yeah, because he wants to see it she's like, no, you can't see it. And then he's like, well, pacey saw it and it was a whole thing. I love the line that he said you're nervous because you're stepping out from behind the curtain, yeah, and you are going to be seen for this artistic side of you, and there's not much difference sometimes between the artist and the work, and that is scary. Oh, yeah, like, even as. Like as a performer, yes, but even as like a director.
Speaker 1:Now I I was so nervous opening night of our latest show and even my my husband's like well, like you're good, like you don't have to. He wasn't trivializing, but he was like well, like you're good, like it's not, like you're going to forget your lines or something. I'm like, yeah, but it's different. The individual performer stands on their own. I have to account for everything. Yep, you know Everything, me and my company. So it's like. When he said that line, I was like yeah, that's what it's like. It's like, oh, I'm working on this thing secretly that no one's seen. And now the curtain comes down and anyone who wants to can see it. So I really, I really understood that line. I felt that.
Speaker 1:So then we're in the disciplinary committee. The 30 year olds back, the 30 year olds. I actually said that.
Speaker 1:I said this Mr Caulfield guy, the one who threw the golf course party is he like the now the bad guy in the show? Is that just what has happened? All right, well, anyway, he's back and he's in trouble for so first of all, he says he whips out his star tag. I wrote that too. I was like what is that? I think it's like an early mobile phone, I don't remember. But he was like a rich kid, yeah, maybe that's why we didn't know. And he called his mom but she didn't know the answer either. So his argument was that he really wasn't cheating because it didn't help him. So he ended up getting Andy was going to fail him, but then the principal didn't fail him and it was a whole thing. It was a whole thing. So I guess this guy's the resident bad guy now. That's who he is, that's who he is.
Speaker 1:And then when the principal, Principal Green, congratulates Andy on her really high PSAT score, I really thought that her reaction to that was actually a pretty good reminder of how it feels to have an empty victory. Oh yeah, empty victory, that's a good. I really felt that, like when you take a shortcut or you don't put in the effort you should have, it ain't the same, and then you get this right Great results. It doesn't feel as good as the hard work, and that's just the truth, it's true. Uh, did you ever cheat on anything. I was trying to think when I was watching this. I'm sure I did. I know I was trying, I'm sure I did.
Speaker 1:I can remember trying to cheat on things. Yeah, like, you know the old trick with writing something on your hands or in those Texas instrument calculators. Oh yeah, before we could like text on cell phones, you could enter text into those. I remember I probably tried to cheat either with like equations or something on that. Before I definitely tried to cheat on math tests and I'm pretty sure I probably did. I think my biggest cheating was probably copying somebody's like homework or like something like that. I don't know, I never had like a big cheating moment, I just thought of one.
Speaker 1:Actually, I don't know if it was like cheating, but this was like early days because I was in college, so pre like now they have plagiarism checkers and stuff, and I was running late on an assignment for a class and I found something online and I thought smart, young me, I had changed it enough. And my teacher gave it back to me. He was like I found it on this site which back then in like 01, like oh, 102, like that teacher be, he was young, ah, so he was savvy. He was savvy and it's probably the same topic he taught, so maybe he'd even read the site. I'd been on and I and, and he was really nice because he, he like, liked me.
Speaker 1:Normally my work was like really really good. I'm sure I just was running behind or put it out. You know all these things procrastinated, and so he was, he was kind about it. He was like I just need you to redo it and turn it in by tomorrow. Oh, you're lucky I did. And I tell you what I never did that again and still haven't.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, you're not in school, I mean, but like as a writer, like there's so much stuff out there, like I don't copy and paste stuff, I feel for teachers, right, originally they have it. They have it hard these days trying to catch. Well, that's why you're saying a lot of them that you just do your assignment right in class. We're going back to pencil and paper. Hey, they don't, they don't want to have to run it through plagiarism checker, try to catch you. They just want to know on your own, with none of those tools, what can you give me? Yeah, wow, anyway, okay, oh, let me say something trivial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the hairdos in this entire episode and the next one were not a delightful blast from the past. No, their hair looked dumb. Yeah, the only person who had good hair was Jen and she wasn't even in this episode. I was going to say I wrote that at the very end I said where's Jen? I did too. I said where's Jen and Henry, and she was barely in the next one, but, yes, her hair was good.
Speaker 1:Gail's hair is terrible. Gail's hair is awful, really bad. But that was mom hair back then. That was mom hair, that was stylish. And then Dawson's hair is just Dawson and Pacey's hair looks all weird and puffy. Yeah, andy, they put those weird. Like she does not look good. I don't know Everybody's hair. To me the bad guy's hair was weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, jack had that horrible hairdo that was popular, where it was like smushed down and then stuck up in the front. Yeah, like the duck. It reminds me of a duck tail. I hated that hairdo. Nikki's hair was good. Nikki Green, she had hers in little braids. Hers was good, but like, anyway, yeah, and it wasn't their fault, they were wearing the styles of the time, I know. So, like you said, not a fun blast from the past. Oh, when Pacey shows up at his brother, doug's oh yeah, and he's like I'm going to crash on your couch because apparently all the sisters are back. Well, anyway, he's like Doug says Pacey, this is not party of five. I know, I love that reference.
Speaker 1:Did you watch that show? I did. Yeah, I loved that show. I did watch that show. That's a good one.
Speaker 1:Did you notice all the subtle like gay stereotyping things in his apartment? Did you see the posters on the wall? The Broadway shows? It was like Miss Saigon and like something else. Yeah, the mood lighting, the mood lighting guys.
Speaker 1:I love that moment where I don't even know what they're called, where Pacey picks up the thing with like the nails. Oh, I had one of those, I know that was my favorite thing and I just wondered. I was like I wonder if Joshua Jackson just ad-libbed, like they had the apartment set up and he was just grabbing stuff because he was so funny, I know, in that scene, just like touching all his brother's stuff and being like typical little brother. And you can tell that Doug is like very orderly and everything. He's like my CDs, or he said CDs. Yeah, my CDs go in order alphabetically by last name, not first. And and here's Pacey, just like, like throwing his stuff everywhere.
Speaker 1:I thought it was so funny because, listen, I, as somebody who likes to keep a neat house all the time, um, I, my, my stepdad, was recently visiting and him and I are not the same when it comes to things. Okay, I'll just put it that way. Uh, he has lots of things and he brings lots of things, and that's fine. He lives by himself now that my mom has passed and he can do what he wants in his own house and fine, great. But Cooper and I were talking after he left and like I was getting things back to normal and I was like you know, I love having people visit, but it is nice when they like, when they leave and you get things back to normal and Cooper goes.
Speaker 1:I have to agree with you on that, because it, when it's your space and then somebody comes into your space for a little while, it is kind of like it's fun, but then it's like, okay, when they're gone, it feels good to have it back, it does Right, sure. So when it's unexpected somebody coming to be in your space, that's even worse. I felt that for brother. Yeah, he was like, ah, like, because you can like mentally prepare for house guests or whatever, like you said, and get excited about the components of it that you're looking forward to. Um, but yeah, just someone knocking on your door and like throwing their stuff in the middle of your living room, yeah, which I would welcome whoever needed, you know, respite from a bad situation. Of course I would welcome you, but we, you felt that when, but I was like I would be like, oh, I would welcome you, but we, you felt that when, but I was like I would be like, oh, yeah, no, I get that, I totally get that.
Speaker 1:Although let me tell you our friend Bobby, you know, our young friend Bobby. He's never been on here, but he was on our studio audience one day when we were recording. That was so fun. Um, he was the best house guest, bless you. He house sat for us when he came to visit one time because we had to go to a wedding and he was already there. He was the best house guest, bless you. He house sat for us when he came to visit one time because we had to go to a wedding and he was already there. He was the best because he cleaned, he washed dishes, he did the laundry and he had cookies waiting for us when we got back. Okay, that's amazing, brownies, that's amazing. He was a great house guest, that's great. Yeah, well, and he was existing. I mean, yes, he was a great house guest, but he was existing with you out, not there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's that too, right, because anytime there's another being, whether that's a human or your pet sitting or whatever it, the energy is different. Yes, I mean even at our house, if they have someone over or whatever. You know, sometimes it's nice, like, sometimes my kids won't have like a sleepover and I'll just be like no, it's not that I don't like your friend, it's just I can't. It's that when I wake up tomorrow morning, I just want it to be us, because I've got so much going on. Yes, I can't even process a single other person getting here too. Yeah, even if they're like asleep the whole time, I'm here and then I leave. I get it, it's just, it's a lot, it is, you know. So I get that, yeah. Oh, I said the musical posters, yeah, yeah, okay. So then I said Bodhi is just back, I guess, but then where's the baby? The baby comes in later, yeah, yeah. Yeah, as an excerpt, as the second one, but in the first one, yeah, where they go to has the baby who knows, I don't know. That was interesting. That was interesting somewhere.
Speaker 1:I guess I said that the part where Joey tells Dawson that she doesn't get the privilege of figuring things out, I was like, man, that's hard truth. She's like you can go backpack across Europe, you can take a break. I don't get to do that. I have to figure my life out. Yeah, right now. I don't get to do that. I have to figure my life out. Yeah, right, because that's I feel like true for most people.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's just like you know that stupid saying everybody has the same 24 hours in a day. No, they do not. Right, because, like, the way I'm able to manage my 24 hours is different than yours, right, everybody is different. So some people's 24 hours a day is packed with two full-time jobs or three part-time jobs plus parenting. They ain't got a free hour to do whatever the thing is To do anything. I hear that a lot with, like, fitness culture. Yeah, I hate it. Like, oh, everyone has 24 hours. You can take 30 minutes. No, not every single moment of your waking hours and you're only sleeping four or five hours a night, yeah, or you need that 30 minutes to sleep, like, or to go get food, you know, like.
Speaker 1:So anyway, yeah, I thought that was a good truth, good, and I said, um, not dawson telling joey not to play the victim, oh, whatever happens to you, he's like well, don't make yourself, it's not personal. And I'm thinking, dawson, I know if someone trashed one of your films, oh, you would take it so personally, so personally, you would be so victimized. I mean people just critiquing your films. Yes, so I was like I cannot believe him right now, of course, I cannot believe this, of course, but anyway, um, oh, I'm sorry, I laughed out loud. What?
Speaker 1:When dawson then comes to joey's house to like follow up, and he's like, go back and repaint it she doesn't want to, and he goes well, I just wanted to bring you the keys to the school and he hands her like 20 keys. Yeah, it's like a whole giant key chain, but also I'm like they gave you 20. First of all, they gave you the keys. They're probably his dad's, because I guess I thought that's what he said. But even if they were his dads, I guess if they were his dads, it made a little more sense. Well, but he answered like 20 keys on a keychain and just he's like I just came to bring these all the keys to the school or whatever, and I was like wow, wow, okay, but anyway, so that was that.
Speaker 1:Um, I don't know why, what part this was where pacey says that's me, I'm humorless. I don't know who he was talking to. I can't remember now. Oh well, is it when he was threatening the guy? That was it, which, by the way, pacey was not very threatening, no, like in the parking lot. Yeah, I was like boy, you ain't scary, the guy just admits it. That was weird, that was weird.
Speaker 1:And then, but then like okay, that dude deserved to get punched in the face, sorry, especially when he said his whole like I'm white and I'm rich, I don't need any other opportunities or whatever he said. And he says it in a room with a person of color and then a person, one or two people who are not on that economic class with him. I was like, yeah, punch that, because that's okay, that the next episode I'll get more into that, yeah, but, um, yeah, so, so if you haven't watched it, this, this new bad guy, caulfield, is the one responsible for defacing joey's mural and pacey, kind of like. I kind of liked his investigative work. He's trying to figure out at school who it might be. He was like, hey, pretend bet. Yeah, he's like, oh, we're taking bets on blah, blah, blah and everyone's like, oh, it's got to be caulfield, yeah, okay. So then he confronts him in the parking lot and coffee's like yeah, it was me. And then they're like fighting and it's a whole thing. I think he's just cocky because he's a rich white boy, I, he has the world handed to him and he knows it. Yeah, that right there and that's about enough. But then when you take that and go out of your way to be, then to make life harder for other people, oh, that's so rough. So, yeah, I wrote down also that I'm white, I'm rich. Yeah, yeah, that was what it was. And then, okay. So then we have this whole scene that has nothing to do with any of that, where Andy confesses to Jack about the PSA yeah.
Speaker 1:So what did you think about Jack's advice when he said don't turn yourself in? I mean, I get what he was saying. I don't agree with it. I mean I think I didn't agree with him until he said the line where he goes are. Are you really going to give all this up for something that has the word practice at the beginning of it? Well, but is it really that deep? But it is because, doing well or not, if you're a national merit scholar, you're taking that away from somebody else because you are one step ahead. Do you know what I'm saying? So I, yeah, I, and plus, I don't think cheating and lying is ever right and I feel like a person who's close to someone like Jack and Andy are very close he's probably more worried about the repercussions because he cares about her so much than she is. Yeah, that makes sense. So I kind of understood where he was coming from. Not that he was trying to be deceitful, but he, just, he, just, you know, cares about her.
Speaker 1:Ok, so terrible writing. Know, cares about her? Okay, so bad, terrible writing. But the whole part where Pacey basically says to Joey yes, well, when Dawson left, he passed you off to me to take care of, yeah, and.
Speaker 1:And then she gets mad. Well, obviously she goes oh, so you guys just like wife swap me, yeah, which is kind of gross, but like the scene wasn't written very well, it wasn't, and even I was like when did that happen. But I guess it did. I don't even remember, you don't? It was a few episodes ago and, um, I don't know. So obviously she should be upset about it.
Speaker 1:But I appreciated what dawson said then later, when she confronted him about it, he was like, oh that, like that doesn't even apply anymore, right, like that's not even the situation, like that's not what pacey's doing. And so you kind of saw it like click in her brain, like, oh, because the reason she was upset, because it's offensive to be like, oh, you take care of her now, you take care of her, like obviously, that's really take care of myself, thank you. But also I think she was thinking, oh, pacey is spending more time with me and showing interest in me because he's interested in me. And then when he said that it was more like, oh well, maybe he's not, yeah, yeah, so it's kind of like a two steps forward, one step back situation. Well, I wrote now the Joey slash, pacey, tension, frustration grows every episode. Every episode it's this big buildup. Yeah, I mean it is, it is yeah. And every episode it's more and more and more and more and more. And then a little setback and then I'm like yep, yep, yep, I love it. Oh, and Pacey doing this mentor program oh yeah, I thought that was funny. But then I was kind of annoyed with Dawson. Calm down, dawson Pacey can mentor. I think you're becoming to team Pacey this season.
Speaker 1:It might be the writing, it's the writing, but yes, and then the only other thing I said about this one other than where's Jen is I don't know how I felt about Principal Green interpreting his roles. Like at the end, when Andy tells him about the test, she's like oh, you can expel me, you can whatever. He's like no, I'm not going to expel you, because it's not just about the thing, it's about the person. And taking that into account, and I'm thinking, well, that doesn't seem fair. You see what I'm saying. Like he was, like I don't just look at it like black and white, I actually like think about who is the person and what is the whatever. And I just thought why, like what she? I'm not saying she should be expelled for it, but like if you would expel someone else for the same thing, then like, you should expel her. I see, but he did say he was basically like a college board. A rule is a rule. Yeah, I just thought it was interesting. When he's like, oh no, it's about interpreting it based on the person, and I was like I don't know about that, anyway, could have also just been terrible writing. And I mean I get it, I get what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this next episode? Oh, this one I don't remember, so we'll get into it, hold on. It's called Two Green, with Love. Joey rallies with her friends and family in support of capeside highs and battled principal. I don't remember this, this episode, because I have to say I think it was pretty. I mean, this was in 2000.
Speaker 1:I hate that, like here we are 25 years later still dealing with stupid crap like this from people in school boards. I actually said board meeting. Oof, some things never change. Still relevant. Now, to be fair, we are in a very contentious school district where we live. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen other places, ours is just like above and beyond. But this is america, it happens everywhere. It does, it does america.
Speaker 1:And so this meeting, which I thought it was a school board meeting, but I did too, but then, but the superintendent was there, I know. So it's like do the writers not know the difference between a board meeting and a pta meeting? They may not, but either way, we're just going to say it's a board meeting, because that's what it felt like, and caulfield's dad. So mr caulfield was basically saying that mr green overreacted, expelling him for his defacing of joey's thing, and yada, yada, yada and that, um, like basically trying to make joey look bad.
Speaker 1:And then in those thinly not even thinly veiled, like some racist remarks oh, it wasn't. And class remarks about how people are trying to push the boundaries of our culture here by bringing in these outsiders. It's the whole like woe is me, because I'm rich and white and everybody's in male and everybody's against me. Smallest violin ever here, sir. I put in capital letters the white privilege and racism is enraging. And because 25 years later, I feel like it's worse. Yeah, like what the hell?
Speaker 1:I think this episode was meant to be maybe a little exaggerated just to get the response from the audience that you want. But then when I was watching it, I was like, yeah, but this feels like real life. Yeah, and I will say there were, unfortunately, there were some like tropes too, like that you know the amount of times that they kept quoting Martin Luther King Jr. I was like, come on, you don't know any other people of color that you could quote. Well, it made me wonder.
Speaker 1:Well, I know the answer it was a bunch of white people that wrote this, yeah, and it's like. Oh, we can always quote him because like and yeah, it, it, um, what is the word that I'm searching for people? Um, like, like to cherry pick with Martin Luther King's quotes? Yes, uh, martin Luther King Jr, sorry quotes. They like to cherry pick and they don't. They take them out of context and they don't have a full understanding of who he was and what he did. And I mean, listen, the general public hated him, like, yeah, they, they were not on his side, like, and he was arrested. He fought the system, he stood up against the systems in America. So I don't like it when people take it to you, but anyway, that was neither here nor there with this episode.
Speaker 1:But I like this episode was written by white people to make make it look like there are good white people and bad white people, right, and instead of the whole overlooking truth, which is there is a system that is put in place. It's not about individuals, it's about our systems that are really messed up, and the advantage that white rich men have is because of a whole system, not because of people, right, not because this one guy's a jerk and it's historically proven, right, like it's right, right, like it's one of these situations where the intent is good, yep, but the impact delivery and the impact not so great, but maybe not so great. Maybe if you had some black writers it could have helped you write a more complete picture. That's what I'm thinking. And it was to surface level, represented his side more, because what I wish they would have gone into a little more and he did a little. He had so much more on the line as a black man and authority and a position of authority, um, to do an interview. He had so much more on the line there. You know he wouldn't want, and he was saying that, but I but I wish they would have gone into more detail about that. Yeah, yeah, exactly, he was essentially saying like, oh, they'll just make me look enraged or whatever, which is all true, correct, but I wish they would have gone down that path a little more.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, one thing I think that they did pretty well again way too relevant for our time, was the news media, yeah, and the spin and taking things out of context, even the picture they show of Principal Green is him like yelling or something. And of course that's even exaggerated now with things like social media. But even just in that like broadcast thing, I thought they did a good job of that. And I appreciated when Gail was talking to Dawson and she said and he's like, well, why are you interviewing the superintendent? We just need to present principal green side.
Speaker 1:When Gail decides she's going to run her own story which I really wish they would have just put it online, oh, I know. But she's like I'm going to give it to the station. And I was like come on, girl, leave that station in your dust. I know, maybe online wouldn't have gotten much traction, it's 2000. So she says to Dawson it's not my job to slant it, it's my job to ask the right questions and people make up their minds. And she's like news media should be neutral. And I was like, yes, girl, preach, you know, unless it's like commentary which is clearly marked, and there's a space for that too.
Speaker 1:But I appreciated what she was saying, saying about that. But information should just be information if that's what you're trying to convey, right, yeah, right. And you know, that's why I like to listen to the BBC a lot for American news because it is very unbiased. It's just like here's what's happening in the crazy country of America. They don't say that, but over the pond. But you know what I mean. Like the BBC is a good place for, because I mean you, trying to find unbiased news reporting in our country is hard either way. Either way you go, sure, it's super hard. Yeah, is hard Either way. Either way you go, sure it's super hard. Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 1:Anyway, but also, speaking of Gail, this whole restaurant thing, when the hell did she say she want to open a restaurant? Where did we miss this? The only time I recall it being mentioned is when Mitch tells Dawson your mom's opening a restaurant and you're going to help her. But I thought it was his dream to have the restaurant Because, remember, he built that whole thing. That's the space that he bought, and he built the whole thing, the little model that he destroyed. When did it become Gayle's? I don't know. I'm confused by the whole thing. I vaguely remember him saying that was your dream and I feel like, did they make that switch this season? Do you remember they were having a fight sometime, they were talking about restaurant and he was like no, gail, that was your dream, not mine. Yeah, I vaguely remember that now. But then I was like but the other two seasons not, it was Mitch with the little model. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know what's going on with that and they're not making very much progress very quickly, but I get that it takes a while.
Speaker 1:Also, where do you get all the money to just open this ginormous restaurant? I don't know, maybe her philadelphia money, I don't know. Crazy, weird, okay. So then, joey, they're protesting outside the superintendent's office, yeah, and I said first of all joey going in alone to talk to the superintendent, but then I said it's giving newsies, newsies when they, when jack kelly goes in to talk to pulitzer pulitzer, said it's giving newsies. Newsies when Jack Kelly goes in to talk to Pulitzer Pulitzer, yes, and it's like just them in the office or whatever, and like his assistants or whatever. I thought that was interesting and of course he's very patronizing and very like condescending and very like whatever to her. So I just thought that was interesting. And she doesn't back down, of course not.
Speaker 1:I love when then everybody's at the bed and breakfast. So I always think it's like Joey's house, which I guess they live there now too, in the bed and breakfast anyway. Well, that's always been their house, ok, they've just renovated it, ok, got it. So now everyone's there rallying with her, and I thought that was really fun and I really loved when um andy was like making all the phone calls oh, I know people there and she was like blackmailing people, sort of yeah, sort of yeah. That that was really, really fun. I like that too. Oh, and in that scene I had that sweater that joey was wearing. Oh, you did the red one with like the white. Yeah, it must have been maybe american Eagle, oh yeah, but I definitely had that one. American Eagle is all over this. Yeah, that was a really good, really good sweater.
Speaker 1:Speaking of Joey, let's talk about poor Pacey, because when she's like with AJ in that scene, oh yeah, and it's like I was, like I felt for Pacey, cause you know the torture of watching someone you have feelings for be with somebody else. We've all been there. It's awful, it's so bad and it's like they don't know. You have the feelings and they're so they're not being careful, you know, oh, it's the worst. It's bad because they're not doing it maliciously, no, they're just they don't know, or maybe they have an inkling, but like it's not confirmed or it's just not mutual or it's not mutual. That was me back in the day. That's pretty bad too.
Speaker 1:And then I was like AJ, but man, he kind of is a dud because he shows up and then when it gets hard he's like well, bye, bye, but everyone's mad at me, so I'm leaving. I was like okay, he's going to what, he's gonna be gone before too long, don't worry. God, I hate him. But. And then, and then pacey, with his little ducky from pretty and pink reference. That was really cute when he said, got ducky written all over me is what he said. I was always, I was always pulling for ducky.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's fun that jen sort of has this figured out with pacey and joey. Well, they had to give her something to do in this episode, in any of these storylines. She's like nowhere. And then like henry's been gone the past two episodes. Right, they finally started having them be together. And then now he's. Now he's just totally gone, but she references, I know. So you don't forget about him, right? Yeah, because pacey's like oh well, that didn't work out for ducky and she's like I don't know, it eventually worked out for henry and I was like, oh yeah, henry, that guy, um, and then like what did you think? I kind of get it.
Speaker 1:Being a business owner myself, you and I have tough had talks about this off air, about our forward facing personas and neutrality, about bessie's reaction when, like a single person called to be like, oh, this is gonna hurt your business, yeah, blah, blah. I mean. Eventually bessie, joey's sister, comes back and is like supportive and stuff. But what did you think about her being upset, that Joey was like making a stir and how it might hurt their business. I thought it was bullshit. Yeah, because you know what I think about it, I think you should always.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm a wear your heart on your sleeve kind of person, even with my business. You know where I stand. I mean when I I I rent studio space and a shared space. I don't own the space, but when I am there I have a sign up. You know I have a pride flag up that I hang up Um, that says everyone's welcome here, because when you come to my class, when you are with me for that hour, you are welcome. And I post that on my socials because I want people to know where I stand on issues, because I don't want unsafe people to come into my space, right, so, and does that hurt me? Probably, but I don't care. Does that hurt me Probably, but I don't care For me.
Speaker 1:I think it's more important to be vocal about things that you feel are right for you. Um, that involves other human beings, so, yeah, yeah, but I mean, even that's coming from. And again, bessie is a fictional character, correct, but that's coming from a place of privilege that you can do that, like in bessie's case, correct. They're already sort of ostracized. They don't have a lot of money. They need their business to survive, to feed their family. So I think, I think, maybe what I came to terms with with that was that her initial reaction was understandable, but not the right one, yeah, and that eventually she was able to be like you know what, who cares? She eventually came around. Yeah, right, and I do, but I do think I do not.
Speaker 1:To be this is so cheesy, but I'm going to throw this in here. There is a Martin Luther King jr Quote. Oh, no, not another one, it fits, okay, no, he said the time is always right to do what is right, yeah, and I think, even though, yes, she has some things against her, she is still coming from a place of privilege. She is I mean, she is, she's on a lower class thing, she's trying to support her business, but she is a white woman who could be a voice for this black teacher in a predominantly white space. Right, right, right, Right. So I do think, even if it, even if it's going to hurt you in some way, shape or form with your business, it's more important to do the right thing. Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, and Bodhi's totally on Joey's side, but you would predict that. But also she, her partner, is a black man. Yeah, who something like this could happen to, particularly in that community. So, I don't know, that's just, that's me. Yeah, but you're right. I mean, I acknowledge fully that is a place of privilege that I can say, you know, xyz, but um, yeah, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just, it's just a fact. It's just a fact. Yeah, it just is.
Speaker 1:Um, let's see, where did I have? Oh, I already said that about gail. Oh, unrelated to everything, but I loved pacey in the hockey jersey. I knew it in the boston ruins. I knew you're gonna say that because katie's husband wears jerseys all the time, hockey jerseys, hockey jerseys. Yes, specifically, he loves hockey All the time.
Speaker 1:You see that man out in public. He got one on almost all the time. Middle of July, long sleeve hockey jersey. Being at a formal event he might have on a jersey, most likely. Yeah, yeah, he probably needs a few more, but he's got quite a few. I've never seen him re-wear one, except for his business one, his cabra one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he re-wears that one sometimes. But but, yeah, yeah, but also, like Pacey, has been putting some not great fashions as of late.
Speaker 1:So that was just so. You think that's good fashion? I think it's. I think I think a man in a jersey is attractive. Yes, I wouldn't say it's like high fashion. I mean, you could think it's attractive but not be fashionable. Correct, that would be my yes, but he's been in unattractive things lately.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's what I should have said. Yes, so I liked him in that they give that poor boy pants that are ginormous, always, always. I only have two more things. Okay, the same what. I'll wait till the end. Okay, I was just gonna say I thought it was as cheesy as it was. I thought it was cute when nicky, uh, principal green's daughter is talking so good about him and he walks in and he's behind her, so she doesn't know. I thought that was really cute, um, I also liked when jen said to pacey every duck has his day. I know, I thought that was really good. He was in mighty ducks. Well, that was the other thing I thought when I saw the hockey jersey oh, okay, a little hockey jersey, and now they're talking about ducky and mighty ducks, and so there was, there was some fun happening there, um, and I liked it.
Speaker 1:When mr green was leaving his office and all the kids are in the hallway and they like clap for him. Oh, see, listen what I have to say about that. Let's hear the clap out of sweet and all, but let's not, like, this man still lost his fucking entire job because of racism and class privilege, right, like, ok, great, you're clapping. I mean it's kids, what can I mean? They did the best they could, right, what else could? Because, joey's like, I feel like I failed, you like I tried, but like, um, I was like, okay, like clapping out is great, but this man still has to fucking leave because of this racist man, right, and I then that.
Speaker 1:Then I wrote oh, this episode reminds me that rich white men almost always get their way in this country. Actually, I'm gonna take up the almost almost always. They always, they always get their way. Yeah, it's frustrating. And we are 25 years later. Yeah, it's very frustrating. Rich white men getting their way in this country. Yep, no, I'm with you. And then like, okay, give him some claps, but what is that? That doesn't pay his bills? No, now he's gonna find another. These are kids and whatever I know. I know, like you said, they're doing the best. I know, like, what are they supposed to do? What can the kids? Can't rehire him, but right. But again, that goes back to who was probably writing.
Speaker 1:I had oh, I loved the part where they're in the restaurant question mark that Gail is building. What were they working on? I don't know. And Dawson says something. She's like oh, yeah, the producer wants me to do some special segments. But I said no. And dawson's like what, like, what do you mean? I thought that's what you wanted and she goes. I wanted the chance to say no, ah, loved it, love that, loved it. And maybe she didn't even know that until she got the opportunity. And then to her it was like no, I don't want to feel that. I felt that. And what do we think about Pacey renting a wall for Joey to paint? Is this romantic, is this weird? What's going on, I don't know Like I was just kind of giggling at the final scene, where she's standing in front of this wall, giant, and it's like outside in the middle of winter, it's a brick wall.
Speaker 1:So outside, in the middle of winter, it's a brick wall. So it's not even like a blank canvas, like to even paint it. I'm thinking you have to paint the whole thing first. Oh, yeah, well, depending on what she's doing, depending what she wants to do, which maybe we'll find out, I don't know but I did like what she said to Pacey. She said something like just when I kind of, have you figured out, you do something, and she was saying it in a nice way. She was like I cannot figure you out, yeah, but I like it, yeah. So I thought that was fun.
Speaker 1:And then I said what is this song? Oh, the ending song is like. It was like I'm grateful for the day they plant the seeds of children. I was like what is this? And I kept playing. I should probably find out what song it was. But I was like every time there's like a moment of silence this man's voice came back on. I know it was so weird and I was like what is happening? It was so weird, yeah, it was too much.
Speaker 1:But I wonder if that was the song in the OG episode or if it's one they threw in, because you, you know, of all the things we talked about, that's what we might need to find out. Well, I mean, it doesn't matter. They could have had no song there, though I think it would have been okay. Or Jay Instrumental would have been fine, just an instrumental that gives us like the mood, that would have been fine. Whatever this man was singing about, is this Lee Greenwood, like what is happening right now? That would what is happening right now. That'd be really funny if it actually was, but it sounded like him. I don't think it is, but it was like that style of singing. Oh my God, it was a lot.
Speaker 1:But anyway, okay, I'm ready for the next episodes. These were, these were a lot. I mean, I the the season. They're trying to put all kinds of stuff in it. But also I'm ready for season four because I know what happens at the end of season three. I'm excited about this. I know I can't wait till season four. So, listeners, hang in, hang in, keep listening, because we go beyond the episode. We just have a few more weeks because this is episode 16. There's 23 episodes. We're going to end of summer-ish. We should be done around Labor Day. We may have to do three episodes in one Because of the unevenness it's 21 episodes, 22. 23. Oh, 23. Right, okay, yeah, yeah. So we'll have to do three, that's fine, or two and just the finale by itself and do a wrap up. We'll just see how we feel. We'll see. Stay tuned, y'all don't need to live schedule. So thank you all for listening to this and our normal episodes and we'll see you next time back here on Generation Inbetween. See you next time, bye.
