Dawson's Creek S3, E9 & E10: Ballroom Dancing and Boston College

The tensions between the Capeside teens reach new heights as Dawson suspects Pacey and Joey are secretly involved, while the group takes a formative trip to Boston that pushes each character outside their comfort zones.

• Dawson finds an unused condom in his bedroom and wrongly suspects Joey and Pacey are having "an affair"
• Joey pursues a dance scholarship that requires her to take lessons with Pacey as her partner
• Jack ventures into online dating via AOL chat rooms in a perfectly nostalgic late-90s internet moment
• The slow-loading picture download during Jack's online conversation triggers memories of dial-up internet days
• Jen and Pacey's lack of chemistry continues despite their attempts to find excitement
• The group travels to Boston where Dawson attends a film festival and faces harsh criticism
• Joey's college visit includes an awkward co-ed rooming situation and confrontation with pretentious students
• Jack explores Boston's gay scene but feels uncomfortable with his first experiences
• Dawson meets Nikki Green, a fellow filmmaker who will soon move to Capeside
• Andy receives unexpected mentorship from the dean's secretary who offers life perspective

Don't miss our next episode as we continue our "Nostalgic or Problematic" series reviewing Dawson's Creek season three!

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Transcript

Dawson's Suspicions Begin

Speaker 1 0:01

Hello, welcome back to Generation Inbetween, where we are in our nostalgic or problematic series re-watching Dawson's Creed. Yes, we are on season three still, which feels like the longest season in the history of the world, I know.

Speaker 2 0:18

I can't believe. We're only on episode nine. We're only halfway through, and ten we're not even halfway through by the way, I just realized I left my glasses on. Is that bad? No, I just didn't have them on for the other episode we just recorded. Okay, I don't know, I just realized I'm like oh, my glasses are on. I guess we're wearing them. You could take them off.

Speaker 1 0:35

We're here, I know Either way, maybe I will too, man, anyway, yes, so, uh, it's a longer season. We're on season three. Yes, episode nine and ten we're going to talk about today. Uh, season, I mean episode nine is called for to tango. I think that's cute. That's cute, I mean, it's a cute title. The episode summary is thus dawson suspects pacey and joey of having an affair. An affair, no, aren't they both single? Yeah, hello. And he encourages Jack to arrange a blind date with another gay teen. Lots to be said here. Oh, yes, yes. But let's talk first about how this episode opens. Jen and Pacey have snuck into Dawson's room to get it on Mm-hmm During a school day. What the fuck.

Speaker 2 1:26

It's. The only thing I could think was like like that forbidden feeling maybe. So it's like double forbidden, but they're in his bed Because they're in someone else's bed and it's the middle of the school day because they're having trouble getting like the sparks to go.

Speaker 1 1:40

Well, I remember being a teen. Trying to find places to make out was so, you know, like you had limited options and you were right. Like your friend's bed not during a party or something where that happens, yeah, sure, but like you snuck in his room without even asking him and they weren't gonna tell him they've been there either.

Speaker 2 2:02

I mean, okay, so grahams is home, so you can't go there. Pacey's house is, I don't know, full of police officers, because that's what his family does for a living, and dawson and his parents are at work and he's at school and he has a ladder and you can climb through his window I know it's just weird.

Speaker 1 2:20

I was like it was weird, it was weird.

Speaker 2 2:22

And then they leave a con, a wrapped yeah, unused condom because they didn't hook up because, again, like I said, last episode, last episode, they're just not sexually attracted they're just not they're just not, and dawson comes back from the dentist midday and interrupts them. So jen manages to get out the window, but pacey doesn't have enough time, so he just kind of is like hey, I'm here and gives Dawson some weird reason.

Speaker 1 2:46

I don't remember what he said and then it's after Pacey leaves, actually later in the episode that Dawson finds the condom, which is when he suspects the affair with Joey, because Pacey and Joey are palling around for different reasons so because she's helping him with math in exchange for him taking dance lessons with her so she can get a scholarship, which I thought was the weirdest. I was like they don't just randomly give scholarships to some rando who signs up for a dance class for six weeks.

Speaker 2 3:16

I thought that was strange too. I was like, ok, whatever, but again the writing this season is fucking bad.

Speaker 1 3:21

Yeah, it's so bad.

Speaker 2 3:26

Like I was even thinking. I mean, I guess they needed the idea of them dancing together for it to make sense, but I was like she could have been like volunteering at the pet shelter, or literally anything but literally anything.

Speaker 1 3:37

It was funny, but I don't know, so that, okay, the funniest thing, the most nostalgic piece, though I know what you're gonna say was the uh computer lab situation with the chat rooms and the aol instant messenger.

Speaker 2 3:52

Oh, and then when the other gay teen sends jack a picture and it takes forever to load. Yes, that was so good oh my god and and, especially because they're excited, they want to see what this guy looks like.

Speaker 2 4:07

Yeah, so you're even more waiting for the picture to download because you're like, what does he look like? And then the picture I know it's like so 1999, I mean he was, he was a good looking guy, but like just the quality of the picture and the type of thing you would have shared on aol instant messenger.

Speaker 1 4:24

I remember one time because it made me remember going to my college computer lab to check my email after dinner Because we didn't have a computer in our room at first. You could eventually have one in your room and get internet, but it took forever. It was so slow. So even when I had like my computer in my dorm room it was mostly just for like writing papers or whatever. But if I wanted to use the internet I would just go to the computer lab because it was so much faster.

Speaker 2 4:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1 4:55

But I remember when you would like talk to people and chat rooms and stuff and you'd be waiting for their picture. There was this one time sorry guy whose name I don't remember. There was this one time sorry guy whose name I don't remember, but back in the 19, it was 1999. Yeah, uh, like we were. I think we like chatted in a in a room, a chat room, and then we would email do you ever do it? Yes, and he went to my school and we had mutual friends and stuff and they were. We were like, oh, we'll send a picture. And I got his picture and I was like, oh, no, no, he is not attractive. I was not attractive to him.

Speaker 2 5:32

He might be attractive to someone. He probably is. Did you ever have that happen?

Jen and Pacey's Awkward Encounter

Speaker 1 5:38

I feel like, yes, I can't think of a specific example, but I specifically remembered that during this scene Because it takes so long to load and I remember seeing his outline and immediately I was like oh no and I was like oh no, and it just kept getting worse and worse and I was like it's already downloading. Oh shit, like I'm not attracted to him and what do?

Speaker 2 5:57

I do now and then I totally ghosted him.

Speaker 1 5:59

Well then, this is even worse. I totally ghosted him because it was super easy to do back then. But granted, remember he went to my school, right, we had mutual friends. I'm a dumbass, no joke. Ran into him at a party at somebody's house weeks later and he called me out on it and he was like oh hi, nice to meet you in person. Thanks for never messaging me back after I sent you a picture and I was like I didn't know what to do. I don't even remember what I said. I don't know Because I think I sent a picture first.

Speaker 1 6:32

Okay, and he obviously liked your picture to send his, and then that's even more awkward, because then what do you do?

Speaker 2 6:39

Look, especially back then, all that stuff was like a wild west of etiquette, oh my God. So really it's like what do I do? This isn't an in-person thing where I see a person and I can make that decision on the spot, and there was no swipe, right left, like there is now, guys, right, there's no swipe, right where it's just super easy. It's like you're on.

Speaker 2 7:00

Messenger and you're in your personal email. Yeah, and I was thinking and I could be totally wrong, but I feel like this is the first episode of Dawson's Creek where they've talked about email. I feel like they've been on computers doing schoolwork, yeah. And so then it was like the email, it was like the AOL, it was like the chat rooms and also because I was still like at the end of high school when chat rooms were kind of starting to happen, and by the time I was at college I was in some of them they would not have allowed us to do those at school, like you would not be allowed to be in a chat room at our high school. I think they had rules about that.

Speaker 1 7:41

Well, maybe I think, maybe eventually they did, but I don't think they did it first. Maybe it's too early to understand.

Speaker 2 7:48

Yeah, and even was it the librarian who's like? I met a guy online that way.

Speaker 1 7:52

Hideous.

Speaker 2 7:53

Yeah, and I was like okay.

Speaker 1 7:56

Uh, which is so funny to think about dating now, because it all happens through apps or online, absolutely, and appearance like leads.

Speaker 2 8:04

it Granted, you can only tell so much about a person from a picture, especially nowadays, but you see what they look like right away through those things.

Speaker 1 8:12

Oh, and even if you're not like social media, you can find it. I creep on people for non-dating purposes. I was going to say, oh, really no, for non-dating purposes. All the time, Like I'll be like. Oh, I wonder what this person is like, Blah, blah blah.

Speaker 2 8:24

What else is going on in their life?

Speaker 1 8:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2 8:26

People always creep on on socials. And I mean people probably do it to us, so it's fine.

Speaker 1 8:31

I would imagine. Well, they hear about wiener sandwiches.

Speaker 2 8:34

Yes, they do. So a funny thing you were saying about how sort of like the firewalls weren't. It's almost like technology was ahead of the protections for it. Oh, it was. So my husband. He worked for an insurance company in his 20s. Definitely not the job for him. Corporate nine to five, super office culture, and he doesn't like to talk to people. All the stuff Until he worked in.

Speaker 1 8:58

You got bills to pay.

Speaker 2 8:59

Unless he worked in, until he worked in a newsroom, he worked in sports.

Speaker 2 9:07

Then he liked to talk to everybody because they were talking about sports, yeah, but and it was job he liked right, but he just wanted to like go to work head down, get my paycheck, do my work, go home, and people was always trying to chat with him and all this stuff. So they had, uh, put firewalls up or protections against things like myspace and hotmail and all this stuff. But he really wanted to be able to like send personal emails at work. So he was a member of this site called God is Dead and they had their own email client. So he had an email address brandt at godisdeadcom. Everyone, please send him an email now. I don't know if he'll get it or not. Oh my God, you're going to piss him off. No, god is Dead is dead, like the site, because oh my God, you're going to piss him off.

Speaker 1 9:44

No, God is dead is dead.

Speaker 2 9:45

Like the site number exists Because we looked. But I just thought that that was so him and so funny, because, like, what insurance company is going to be? Like you know what? We should make sure we have a firewall.

Speaker 1 9:54

God is dead. God is dead, god is dead, god is dead.

Speaker 2 9:55

God is dead. God is dead God is dead. Oh, right, and he got called in because they were like. He told that story on here, didn't he? Oh yeah, he did. He did when he was on our new wave. Because he didn't act as friendly in real life. Yeah, they were like everyone's upset because you sound so friendly on the radio, but you're not very friendly here. He's like okay, am I like being disciplined for something Like I don't know, it was just really funny and they said no, you're not as nice.

Speaker 1 10:25

Yeah, he's like. Well, thanks Y'all, all suck yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 10:29

I don't remember what he said.

Speaker 1 10:30

Something like that.

Speaker 2 10:31

Something like that. He's like I don't want to talk to any of you. Is that not allowed in?

Speaker 1 10:46

the hand along with Troy, says the world is prejudiced towards extroverts. For sure it's extrovert privilege, which he's not wrong. He's not wrong and I don't mind because I'm an extrovert.

Speaker 2 10:50

Yeah, I'm like I will take that privilege and stick it right in my pocket.

Joey's Dance Scholarship Drama

Speaker 1 10:53

But it is. I mean, he is right, because my sister is an ambivert. She goes back and forth in between the two, but there is a lot of time, which I think a lot of people are. Yeah, Um, there's a lot of time. You know, she works with people, she's a nurse practitioner, but sometimes she's like I just want to go see my patients and be done.

Speaker 1 11:10

Yeah, I don't always want to do the extra Sure and like what she really like. When my mom passed and um, I think I shared this last time we had, like we didn't, she didn't want a funeral memorial or anything like that we had like a gathering at a restaurant the day after she died for people to just stop and pay their condolences, chat, whatever. My sister was dreading it and she was like I hate that kind of like thing, like and I mean I don't love it either. Nobody loves to hear I'm so sorry your mom died 80, a hundred times. Like nobody loves that, but it doesn't she. I mean I don't love it either. Nobody loves to hear I'm so sorry your mom died 80, a hundred times.

Speaker 1 11:45

Like nobody loves that, but it doesn't. She's like I'd rather be at mom's deathbed again 10 more times and I'm like, excuse me, and I'm really bad. I would much rather just hug people and say thank you very much. Okay, great, like it's just. It feels I think trite or whatever Sure.

Speaker 2 12:09

You know Well, something like that feels like you have to put on appearances for other people, yeah, when you personally are dealing with a lot.

Speaker 1 12:18

And sometimes, and you know, to me it's just like well, whatever, like they want to just say what they want to say. Right, let them do it, Agree, and so go ahead, like I will hug you and fake smile, but also, I mean, I also am a performer, my sister's not.

Speaker 2 12:36

So we can kind of turn it on. Yeah, and even I like get to my limit. There'll be times I'm just like I don't want to talk to anyone.

Speaker 1 12:44

Which is interesting because when you're a person who generally, I mean, and that's just being a human- I think, when you are a person who generally is very chatty and whatever the second you're not, people wig out, oh yeah, Like when you have a day like that, people are probably like are you okay, Are you all right? Are you all right?

Speaker 2 13:03

Absolutely Not my family so much. And even just to my family I will say I'm in a mood, I'm tired, I'm overstimulated, I just need to like sit here for a bit, and even my youngest will be like okay. But yeah, if I'm here in the studio or something and for some reason for 30 seconds.

Speaker 1 13:26

I don't have that have that.

Speaker 2 13:27

Everyone's like what's going on? Yeah, what's wrong, what happened?

Speaker 1 13:28

yep, and I get that because it is not in my normal character or your normal character, but sometimes, yeah, sometimes we also just need to like shut it down for a little bit and then get it back, and I've been like extra super salty this summer, like I've been like rewatch because I do our clips and I'm like good God, like I am so salty like every episode and I'm like I mean it's fine, I have to just let myself be salty this summer, and then I'll get back to normal.

Speaker 1 13:54

But like, well, not normal, but yeah, I'll get back to whatever. But again, yeah, when you have times people are like oh, and it's like it's fine. I'm also human, it's okay.

Speaker 2 14:06

A hundred percent, all right. Moving on, moving on Dawson's Speaking of being a human.

Speaker 1 14:10

Yes, who? Fucking Pacey, where he was, like I know what my problem is with studying. I equate sex with studying and getting rewarded for studying because of Tamara and because of Andy. And I'm like you are totally saying it's somebody you're doing bad because nobody is giving you a reward. That's what he was saying. Yes, and Joey called him out on it. She did.

Speaker 2 14:34

But I was like, come on, yeah, that was a lot. But then I was like, but also, is that like true to his character? No, no, it's the bad writing of the season.

Speaker 1 14:46

It's so bad. Okay, what else did you not take?

Speaker 2 14:49

no, no, I didn't. Oh, okay, wow but. I do have a lot of thoughts, I'm just gonna um, what are you?

Speaker 1 14:55

this only had one other note for this episode because I was just irritated that this season sucks so bad yeah yeah, um, what do we think about dawson? How he was all up in joey's business about if she was hooking up with pacey or not?

Speaker 2 15:09

I mean he is jealous, yeah, and, but it's none of his business. No, he's. He's wrong to be up all in it right but also, like the human component, is it's bothering him and that's what they wanted us to see. Yeah, he's like happy when it's jen, which is weird because jen's his ex-girlfriend, who he's done more with or the same amount, I don't know as Joey, so that was kind of interesting. It's this continued like it's not the time for me and Joey, but I don't want anyone else to be with Joey.

Speaker 1 15:41

Which is super annoying, which is what Pacey says, like you don't want her, but you don't want anybody else to have her.

Speaker 2 15:46

Yeah, and I like the part where Pacey was like, look at her, she's a freaking goddess, you know. Like he and and he can say that I mean obviously foreshadowing, but like, yeah, he can say that, at least at this point, because he's not in a relationship with her, and it's an objective comment, right, it's like, uh, clearly she's an amazing person who's beautiful and wonderful and smart and intelligent. Like what do you think is going to happen if you guys aren't together? She's going to people are going to be interested in her. Like she's going to like find other people, whatever it is. Oh, I know what I was going to say. That dance instructor, what in the world? Like she had all sorts of like psychological thoughts about life. She's like well, you two are obviously it's always the ones who fight when they're dancing, that are meant for each other, that are sexually attracted to each other and I'm like you're talking to children, one can't you see that like she's basically like just go have sex already.

Speaker 2 16:41

Like I was like who what? And then teenage kids, yeah, and then, and then at the end she's like oh tons, funds are really tight, we don't have that, that scholarship anymore. But I can offer you six months of free lessons or whatever. And they were like no, we're good. But yeah, I don't know, her character was strange, it was weird, it didn't really add up.

Speaker 1 17:00

Well, okay, moving on to the next episode we had another character that didn't make sense. It was that dean secretary. Oh, I actually liked her. I like her too, but I'm saying it was like it was very random that she's spending so much time. We're skipping ahead, but we'll get there, um right, so the well.

Speaker 2 17:19

So the four, which I thought it was odd that jen wasn't in that episode at all at all.

Speaker 1 17:24

Do we want to go ahead and skip into the episode? Yeah sure all right well, pause we'll get right back season three, episode episode 10 is called First Encounters of the Close Kind Spielberg reference. It is In Boston where Dawson entered a film festival. Andy and Joey make a college campus visit, while Jack explores the city's gay scene, that's the summary.

Speaker 2 17:47

That's what happened. That's that's the summary. That's what happened. Okay, so jen was not in it.

Speaker 1 17:54

She doesn't go, so I don't think they even mention her.

Speaker 2 17:55

I know it's really weird go on this trip. Maybe she was recording something. I guess we'll see if she's on the next episode or if there's like a pause in her being in episodes or they just were like four is an even number. We don't also need to send jen, but pacey also. Yeah huh, I don't know, maybe they're just off in a coke.

Speaker 1 18:14

Well, because I did it would have been a reach for them to have a storyline to go to college yeah, with them they could have been in boston doing something else. But yeah, maybe, but I don't know it's probably easier to do it this way. I don't like it so yes.

Speaker 2 18:28

So first of all, I did think it was funny the part where joey is looking for her. She's there for the weekend, so she's staying in the dorm, so she has a roommate. She's looking her for her roommate aj, who ends up being a guy and then her name's listed as joseph instead of josephine, right, or just got cut off because josephine's a long name, I guess. So it's this whole like gender neutral names. So now she's staying with the guy, which first of all, I would not stay in the same room with a man. I had just met a little old man and she's like at first she's like I'm not doing it. She's like, okay, it's fine. I'm like hell, no, I'd be like you put me in a different room, no, and also like that that's a pretty big oversight for the university.

Jack's Online Dating Experience

Speaker 1 19:12

I'm like there wasn't a box where you could mark like and then, if you're okay with that, that's fine. I mean they have co-ed dorms but they're not usually you have to consent to that.

Speaker 2 19:19

Well, and one is feasibly a teenager slash child, and one is feasibly an adult right over 18.

Speaker 1 19:25

Well, yeah, he's a junior so over. Yeah, for sure, he's like a graduate assistant, yeah, or a class.

Speaker 2 19:29

Well, he said he was a junior so over.

Speaker 1 19:30

Yeah, sure he's like a graduate assistant, yeah, or a class. Well, he said he was a junior junior year, whatever, yeah. So then, speaking of him, he is mean to her and so put out but like, why did you sign up to be the junior mentor whatever nonsense title they gave you you're so put out and aggravated. Why did you sign up to do it?

Speaker 2 19:47

and maybe they get paid or something which is a very college thing to do well to be like sure I'll take that job and then be like just kidding, go take a tour by yourself which is basically what he did, you're right. I mean again, you're right, it's. And then the whole little women thing which joey and this is way later, but jo Joey says that she was named after Joe in the book there but her name is not Josephine, I think it is, and she goes by Joe Joe March.

Speaker 2 20:18

I think her name's Josephine in the book. I thought it was. I'm gonna look it up. Okay, look it up, keep talking. Is it like Jocelyn or something?

Speaker 1 20:31

That's a name I've heard before. No offense to the jocelyn's out there.

Speaker 2 20:37

That was just a bit of a jump, was it?

Speaker 1 20:38

josephine, I thought it was something josephine march.

Speaker 2 20:41

Okay, you're probably right, little women and the names, and the reason I'm asking is because was there one named Bessie too?

Speaker 1 20:51

It only says Jo. What's her full name? Hold on, nobody knows.

Speaker 2 20:55

Except me. No, it's Josephine or Jocelyn. It's one or the other, I know. Let's see.

Speaker 1 21:02

Everybody's like yelling at us Jo's full name in Little Women. There you go.

Speaker 2 21:07

This is how it is to be a middle-aged person trying to Google. You have to be very specific when you ask the AIs to help you, the AIs Full questions only.

Speaker 1 21:19

You're right, it was Josephine. I swear to God I thought it was something else. So when Joey said that's why my mom named me Josephine, I'm like her name wasn't even Josephine, it was.

Speaker 2 21:31

And I think there was a Bess right, isn't there a Bess March? Oh shit, I didn't Google that one, oh, I just oh Beth, okay, which would be Elizabeth, which Bessie's short for oh right, correct.

Speaker 1 21:41

That's interesting, that her and her sister are named after little women characters. Beth Jo Meg Amy Marmee. I always thought that was such a weird name.

Speaker 2 21:49

It is Like Beth, joe, amy, marmee, anyway, but yes, so this mean junior college student who's supposed to be guiding Joey also ends up teaching a class that she's in because the professor didn't come. Of course Of course, and she says her favorite book is Little Women and says why, and he basically just like cuts her down. And then all these other college age women in class are saying, oh, it's so anti-feminist, basically making joey feel really bad.

Speaker 1 22:17

That kind of shags because you're so like, I think you're so self-important when you're in college, oh yeah, and you have like this deep thought about something everything is a statement and everything is deep and everything. Anything that's with the culture, you have to go against Correct. Anything that's popular, you have to go against. Yes, so that kind of checked. But then like he's so mean to her and embarrasses her, and then he's like OK, just kidding, let's go to the secret library.

Speaker 2 22:47

And here's Louisa May Alott's personal copy of little women. Be careful with it. What?

Speaker 1 22:54

I don't know. But let's talk about dawson. I did feel bad for him speaking of getting embarrassed me too, like how embarrassing to not only hear people be like, oh, that movie sucked. And then they're like q a and he's like nobody has any questions for him.

Speaker 2 23:08

so, yeah, they screen his film at this small film festival. Yes, I felt really bad for him, but I mean also, I was like this is the reality of being an artist, though, that not everything you create is going to be everyone's cup of tea.

Speaker 1 23:22

True.

Speaker 2 23:23

Or even a decent amount of people. I mean I did feel bad for him because he's young, but I was also like, well, I mean, I'm sure Steven Spielberg made stuff when he was young, or even along the way that people were like that was not good yeah. I mean, that's part of the artistic process. It is, and then he needs this girl, nikki Green.

Speaker 1 23:44

Now, typical, Okay, they were probably like, oh, we need to bring in, we need to have more diversity in the show. Had the same thought, and so they bring nikki in. And then she just so happens to be going to capeside to live with her dad. Who's the principal? Yeah, the only other person of color in the cast.

Speaker 2 24:04

Only other person yes, like it's so, 90s, like just so.

Speaker 2 24:08

Yes and it was like they went to the college campus to kind of I did think like that classroom scene with Joey. There was diversity in the classroom, so I feel like maybe they were trying on the college campus. I don't know how much it will filter over into what we see in Capeside although Nikki will be there, I don't remember and she was kind of mean. What is it with these like beautiful women just um giving dawson scathing reviews about his work? It's like every time someone has something nasty to say.

Speaker 1 24:41

It's this like professional, well-spoken, really beautiful woman I know daw Dawson, I did feel bad for him guys.

Speaker 2 24:50

Usually I'd be raking Dawson all over the place. So, yes, let's talk about then Andy and the Dean's secretary.

Speaker 1 24:57

Okay.

Speaker 2 24:59

All right.

Speaker 1 25:01

Love her. That's Mary from 227. Oh, that's Mary.

Speaker 2 25:06

That's how um what's her name?

Speaker 1 25:08

Is that her name? Um, what's the actress that? Uh, it'll come to me. Anyway, that's Mary from 227. Um, and she was a good character, but it was also just so random. I'm like why is she spending so much time with andy, like they go to have coffee. They're like deep thoughting and like not that that can't happen, but like also she's probably busy, you would think.

Speaker 2 25:34

And then when she says she had seven children, yeah, which I do think, look up the advice. I think the advice she was giving her when she was talking about the seven children was smart. Yes, but did you? Did you hear the piece of advice? That was a little bit jarring. What? Which one Did you catch it when she was talking about what her seven kids ended up going on to do.

The Boston College Trip

Speaker 2 25:52

She said one's a doctor, investment banker, one's an investment banker, three are married. The three girls are married and then the youngest one is like in a jazz band or something like that. So the girls she talked about, all she mentioned was that they were all married. Yeah, I caught that. I didn't catch that. She lists the professions of the boys and then says in those three and my three girls are all married. It's like do they also have jobs? It's okay if they don't.

Speaker 1 26:19

But it was sort of like she's very specific about the boys.

Speaker 2 26:22

I mean maybe generation thing too. But I was like, oh right, but her point was, none of them went to Boston, right, none of them went to the school where she works.

Speaker 2 26:32

None of them went to the school where she works, and they all. And her point was like do you know who's the happiest? Spoiler alert it's the jazz musician, according to her. I mean who knows? But her, I mean who knows? But I I don't know. I mean I I kind of maybe.

Speaker 2 26:47

And there's probably a very specific reason why I related to that storyline because, um, you know, andy's mom is still alive, but not really with everyone, and and part of Andy's life to the extent that you, she once had her mom and and I feel the same way about my mom with her Alzheimer's disease. And so I actually met a woman around the time my mom was diagnosed, who is about my mom's age, a little bit younger, and because of work we became close and I wouldn't say she like stepped in for my mom or anything like that, but she did kind of come into my life at a time when, like it was nice to have someone I could talk about, something going on with my kids, and she had her own kids and grandkids at that point and could kind of like be a mom and talk me through it.

Speaker 1 27:32

Okay, but that was like a relationship.

Speaker 2 27:34

That was a relationship that formed because of work and is still a relationship today. Right, correct, but maybe that's why I related to that.

Speaker 1 27:40

Oh, I see it reminded you.

Speaker 2 27:41

Oh, I know how that feels to have like that kind of motherly figure sort of, even if it's just a little tidbit of advice or a little bit of something that makes you feel comforted when you're trying to be grown up independent on your own. It's nice when someone recognizes that you could use that little bit of like. I got your back from a mom perspective. I don't know, but it was random. I just thought it was random.

Speaker 2 28:06

Also, she kept referencing how all these other people have appointments, and there was nobody else in that office.

Speaker 1 28:12

She's like all these other people have appointments.

Speaker 1 28:14

It's just Andy standing in there and then she's like, oh, the dean is a late luncher and I'm like, then what? Yeah, Anyway, okay, I had to look up the 227 characters. Yes, tell me, no, it was um, jackie, jackie, jackay, jackay jackay. Harry played sandra. Okay that, and she would always go. Mary mary oh my gosh, I loved her.

Speaker 1 28:36

I used to watch that show. So sorry I had to look at it. I'm glad you did all right now, y'all know um, okay, so let's talk about Jack now. Yes, the pink pages, first of all, they were real. They were real. But I also feel bad. I just I felt I feel bad for Jack because I think that was probably a struggle of a lot of gay teens for a really long time on figuring out how to just be comfortable with who you are and figure. I mean figuring out how to human is hard, no matter how your humanness is displaying itself, especially when you're a teenager. But when you are a teenager who goes against quote unquote societal norms, it's even harder. You know, and this was in the late nineties and he was finally in a pocket of the country that was more open and accepting- where he could go and like explore, but he was terrified.

Speaker 1 29:44

Yeah Cause he's like how do I do this Like? What do I? Am I supposed to be? A way you know, like what is what is being gay means? Do I, do I have to be a certain personality? Do I have to go to a gay bar? Do I have to? Which? I think nowadays kids probably don't wrestle with that in the same way because they have more representation. They have more movies and TV shows, the internet, which is helpful and bad at the same time.

Speaker 1 30:19

But I, I I felt for him because I think that's probably a lot of people probably could relate to that.

Speaker 2 30:26

Absolutely, and I was also like worried about him in that case.

Speaker 1 30:31

Oh, me too. Well, and that guy came on so strong and he was uncomfortable, like Jack was uncomfortable, and so he left. He did the right thing he did. Yeah, I mean, he was underage in a bar anyway.

Speaker 2 30:41

And I think, more than anything, that was what was like uh, because I was like well, and the guy.

Speaker 1 30:47

Well, also, I didn't like on the flip side.

Speaker 2 30:54

I didn't like how it made the first guy he talked to seem predatory. I wish they wouldn't have done that the way they wrote it.

Speaker 1 30:57

It did. He's like oh, he looks like he can't handle anything more than a beer. I think you're cute, but I'm like, okay, that looks so like you don't have to make the first gay guy he comes into contact with look like a predatory pedophile. Come on, yeah, do you know what I mean? Yeah, I did not like that and he did give me like the icks.

Speaker 2 31:10

I know, because he was supposed to Jack get out of there. But also I just didn't like. I was like why did you? Who also is going to Cape side, okay, also there's.

Speaker 1 31:23

we're speaking of tropes. Yes, they had so many gay stereotype, trope nonsense.

Speaker 2 31:30

Well, they talked about the gaydar again and the guy he met, the guy Jack meets on the bus. He's the guy says yeah, people say I'm like the straightest gay guy they've ever met. Like they don't know that I and I'm just like that's not what, like hello.

Speaker 1 31:46

But also I think too that also kind of this is getting super layered. You know, the way gay men especially, but gay humans in general, had to survive was to quote unquote pass as straight sure, for a long time, even now we even now sometimes that has to happen because we were living in a dumpster fire. To quote unquote pass Sure, for a long time, even now, sometimes that has to happen Because we were living in a dumpster fire In this country.

Speaker 2 32:10

And, at the end of the day, it's your personal business.

Speaker 1 32:16

It's just silly to think that a sexuality has to have one way of expressing itself. It's silly.

Speaker 2 32:20

And I think it's more. And I don't know, I'm not a gay man now, nor was I in the 90s, but I think it's not so much that you don't want to be yourself, it's that then everyone you, you don't want to just be that to everyone else, right? Does that make sense? Correct, and that's true for anything really Like I don't want to be like I even said that to someone who's helping me, kind of looking through my writing and stuff I was like I don't want to be just like that lady that writes about Alzheimer's, right, and she was like well, why not? Like what's wrong with that? And I was like nothing, but I just don't want to be like pigeonholed in that because I have all on and I know that's different than an identity, but it's the same kind of thing Like it's not that I'm embarrassed to like write about that stuff, it's not that I don't want people to know, I don't want them to just associate me with that thing.

Speaker 1 33:12

Well, and also how dumb to think that your sexuality is your entire identity Exactly. But nobody does that to straight people, but people do think that.

Speaker 2 33:21

I know, and it's dumb.

Exploring New Identities Away From Home

Speaker 1 33:22

That's why? Because people but people do think that I know, and it's dumb. That's why? Because it doesn't happen to straight people usually, no, to think that's your whole identity. Yeah, it's kind of weird. It's weird, it's dumb, it's a double standard and stupid. Okay, um, so that didn't that guy also look very old? He did not. He said he was living with his boyfriend, so he was older.

Speaker 2 33:41

Yeah, I guess he was probably mid-20 late, like 25, which?

Speaker 1 33:44

was actually the same age as a guy playing in real life. Yeah, which is funny, that is really funny. Oh, but one of the most nostalgic pieces of this whole thing besides the internet stuff was when Joey wrote her phone number.

Speaker 2 33:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1 33:58

On the guy's hand, on his hand. That was great.

Speaker 2 34:02

That's just something we don't do anymore. I did not warm up to that guy, though, not even when he was nice. He's not cute, he's not nice, he's not smart. I mean, he's cute.

Speaker 1 34:12

He's alright. I didn't think he was cute at all. I think he's cute in that standard white boy way.

Speaker 2 34:18

I think they were trying to make him look like a college student that's what I mean Like in his outfit and everything Like a JCrew catalog he was alright. I don't know. I didn't like him, so he might come back.

Speaker 1 34:28

Maybe he had those blue eyes, I do like me. Some blue eyes, I do too actually.

Speaker 2 34:34

But do you know what my biggest disappointment was? Hitting play on episode nine no trivia.

Speaker 1 34:40

No.

Speaker 2 34:41

Oh, it wasn't a Christmas episode. Remember last time. There's still a big amount of time between thanksgiving and christmas.

Speaker 1 34:49

Well, we just did the thanksgiving episode.

Speaker 2 34:50

We did spooky and then thanksgiving. So are you saying christmas is still coming?

Speaker 1 34:54

yeah, I think so. Okay, good, christmas is coming the goose speaking of trivia.

Speaker 2 34:59

We didn't do it during zennial girl, whatever, but that's okay.

Speaker 1 35:01

I don't know listen to the episode and you'll find out what it's actually called.

Speaker 2 35:04

We didn't do it during Xenial Girl, whatever, but that's okay. Xenial Girl, whatever, I don't know Listen to the episode and you'll find out what it's actually called Xenial Girl Summer Kaleidoscope Edition. Oh, so are we done.

Speaker 1 35:12

That's all we got, that's all we got on that All right.

Speaker 2 35:13

Well you guys, there it is. Should we each just do one 90sson's listeners, let's do it. All right, take that one so I can put this one in. Well, maybe we should do two 90s, though that's what I said, so I was just moving this. Oh, you said that. I said let's do two 90s. Rewind, rewind the footage. Wow.

Speaker 1 35:37

Whoopsie. So when my husband's like you don't pay attention, I'm like yes, I do, I have it on camera now that no, I do not.

Speaker 2 35:43

Hey sorry, we've got me saying reese's pieces, reese's pieces.

Speaker 1 35:48

I don't say that denying it it just um.

Speaker 2 35:51

Oh, I got a spelling one for you. I love these for you. They make me so happy. I didn't do it on purpose, it's just what I drew and I can't skip it now these are all too easy oh, you're trying to stump me. Huh, good luck, that's too easy.

Speaker 1 36:10

Well, you're going to get it.

Speaker 2 36:11

You never know, I might not. Okay you ready. Yeah, 90s spelling bee. Just spell the name, you'll get two tries. Okay, uncle Jesse Katsopoulos. Oh, in a full house he brings the hair in the vest, katsopoulos.

Speaker 1 36:27

I don't know, that's a Greek name. That's hard.

Speaker 2 36:30

Greek names are hard to spell.

Speaker 1 36:31

Greek names are long and I am a bad speller. Try once. All right, jesse is J-E-S-S-E Katsopoulos, is it catsopolis, is it? Ah, jessica, is it k-a-t-s-o-p-o-l-i-s?

Speaker 2 36:50

yes, what you got it right.

Speaker 1 36:52

Hey, hey, yes, catsopolis that is proof to you to not ever let your limiting beliefs about yourself limit you right your limiting belief that you're not good enough to spell sitcom characters' last names.

Speaker 2 37:08

I'm telling you guys, and look Whoa you were wrong, that's wild.

Speaker 1 37:11

That was good. All right, you're going to get this one, but it's a two-parter, okay, okay. In 1991, what former Cincinnati mayor debuted his new talk show that often featured guests brawling on stage while security had to separate them.

Speaker 2 37:25

An episode or two that we need to do. Jerry Springer yes.

Speaker 1 37:30

What segment did every show end with Gosh? I'll give you a few seconds.

Speaker 2 37:36

I know it. I'll let you vision it. It's like the reconnection one. No, Am I thinking of the wrong thing? That's Unsolved Mysteries. That's Unsolved Mysteries. That is Unsolved Mysteries. I don't know Jerry's final thought. Oh right, and then he's like take care of yourself and each other.

Speaker 1 37:55

I remember that he would say, like he would try to wrap up the nonsense that just happened for 30 minutes and then an hour or however long.

Speaker 2 38:01

I would love to just watch those. I bet those are such a stretch.

Speaker 1 38:05

I don't want to, because I started watching the documentary series they have about it Girl. It's bad. Those producers were trash. They treated people like trash. They you want to talk about exploitation. People were, uh, not done right on that show. Yeah, should I? I watched. It's a few episodes and I watched like just the first part of one and I was like oh, this is a lot. I don't know if I can keep.

Speaker 2 38:34

Yeah keep doing it I don't know, but anyway okay awesome. That was a fun little trivia. So thanks for listening to our just nostalgic. I was going to say nostalgic and Dawson, so I said nostalgic, doc, nostalgic, no nostalgic or problematic. Dawson's Creek season three, episodes nine and 10. And we will catch you on the next one.

Speaker 1 38:59

I was waiting to see if you were saying any other fun words. No, just one. All right, thanks guys, we'll see one All right, thanks guys.

Speaker 2 39:05

We'll see you soon. Bye, bye.