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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek, S2 Finale: Episodes 21 and 22
The final two episodes of Dawson's Creek Season 2 deliver heartbreaking character arcs as relationships crumble and difficult choices are made about loyalty, family, and personal growth.
Don't miss the season-ending cliffhangers and our thoughts on how it ended.
We'll be continuing with Season 3 so be sure to join us!
We watched Dawson's Creek, Season 2, on Hulu.
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Hello listeners, Welcome back to our Nostalgic or Problematic series where we are re-watching season two of Dawson's Creek and guys we have reached oh, my Siri is picking me up, who knows what's going to happen there. I think that my husband just got all that on a voice text, so that's.
Speaker 2:Welcome.
Speaker 1:Anyway, we have reached the end of season two.
Speaker 2:I can't believe it. See two episodes.
Speaker 1:That's what we have to do every week. It's just, I know, I know. So today we are going to talk about the last two episodes in season two. And man, there's a lot to cover a lot. I didn't take a lot of notes cause I was just watching Um, but there's a lot of emotions. Yes, so season two, episode 21, is called changes.
Speaker 2:I I can't help but think of that song yeah, changes something, something I don't know anything else, but I know that part I never know the words, the songs.
Speaker 1:It's such a bad um trait of mine all right. The summary is as dawson looks for a subject for his film class final Andy and Jack's father insists on moving them away from Cape Side Oof. Yeah, so let's just jump right in here, because we don't have a lot of time.
Speaker 2:I just wrote down in the opening scene. This is not emotional at all, but did you see the Snapple on Dawson's desk? Yeah, and the ET in the background? Yes, yes, that was really fun. That's all I really had about that opening scene, though. I just said yeah, on desk um, and then his camcorder. Would that have been advanced for the time? Probably, okay, I was trying to think back, yeah it wasn't, it was smaller super big, it was like a handheld.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no no, no, I want to say. I mean, that was 1999.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember a friend of mine had, uh, we had like a sleepover or whatever and she had like her, her parents, like camcorder and it was like the shoulder kind, yeah so, and that was like a year before this, so I would assume that that would there was a reason for me going down that so the story there is that for his film class, dawson needs to.
Speaker 2:I don't know if he needs to interview someone, but he just needs. Yes, he does because he needs to have something with a character arc. Yeah, so he needs to interview a person, which is funny because we're talking about the character arc of the season, obviously in this episode, the next episode, so I'm sure that's on purpose, right, right, and so he's sort of feeling people out in the episode to see if they could be the person, and so Joey's the first person he asked, and she's very she's like. Didn't you already like?
Speaker 1:do enough about like you wrote a whole fucking movie about yeah like no thank you Like I'm good.
Speaker 2:My life is super happy right now. My dad's here, you and I are good, like everything set, and also Joey doesn't like attention Also. That yeah, yeah. So anyway, but that kind of weaves throughout this episode, yeah, all right. So then we got the episode. So the very first thing that I wrote down is Andy's dad yeah, wanting her to move with him.
Speaker 1:There's so much to be said here. This is why I didn't write a lot of notes, because I'm like there's just too much to write. First of all, don't be gone and tell your kids fend for yourself with your mentally ill mother and then all of a sudden come back to be this savior. That's what I wrote. Do not be a savior. That is so annoying and also shitty parenting.
Speaker 2:Very, and it really does. He even says later on because I think Jack says something like well, why does she need to come with you? Or why do you need to go there? He's like because my life is there or I'm there Right. Instead of like maybe I should come meet you all where you are.
Speaker 1:Well, also, you never should have shipped them off without a parent anyway, correct, a capable parent, right, right, exactly so that's annoying and I can totally understand jack's frustration. He's like hello and poor jack, like he's trying here to manage his mom and his sister and himself. I feel like he's the one who's the most capable of managing, but he still has his shit too right, and I just mean like I don't mean his shit that he's gay, I mean his shit and dealing with everybody else's opinions on him being gay.
Speaker 2:Right and being like a teenager and yes and period.
Speaker 1:Like being a teenage boy and a son trying to live your life. All the things, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean it's hard because at the end of the day, he is their parent, right, and so he does get to say yes, where they go and what he thinks is best, and so I don't know. I didn't like it either because I was like, well, they've gotten this far, but then it's also like he is the grown person with resources to help her. So is there another option? Not?
Speaker 1:really I know and then I think too. Like I always say, if you're still breathing, there's always time to change that too. I don't think he really is changing, but, like, I do think it's hard because when people try to make changes, you don't. You're. If you're on the other side of it, you're kind of reluctant because you're like hello, what have you been doing?
Speaker 2:all the rest of this fucking time. But he's trying to come in now, I guess, and like yeah, and I just wish he would have approached it differently. Yes, and I think the scene later when he and jack have a heart-to-heart you do see by the end of that he's trying that he's trying, and it was interesting that that dawson is doing this thing on a character art, because everybody in the episode has one.
Speaker 1:Did you notice that? Even the dads?
Speaker 2:even the dads, yeah, um. So then when dawson sees jen at school and he's trying to get her to be his subject, she's like what's this for america's most hideous home videos? And then she says something about candid camera, she's like or's this for america's most hideous home videos? And then she said something about candid camera. She's like or is it candid camera? And I was like that's funny. At first, you know, it's really funny. I thought she said candace cameron and I was like what? And I had the subtitles on, so I went back because I was watching on my laptop. I went back like 30 seconds and it said candid camera because bob saget hosted.
Speaker 2:America's Funniest Home Videos. So I thought she was making like a. Candace Cameron reference, but no she was talking about candid camera. Do you watch everything with captions? Almost everything.
Speaker 1:Really, but you don't have hearing problems yeah, I have trouble.
Speaker 2:I have more of auditory processing problems. Okay, got it. So when there's sound upon sound, I can't process what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2:Okay, so like if there's background and I do it for Dawson's because I do watch it before, like everybody else is up and things like that, so there's not a lot of sound is to keep it quiet because people are sleeping and I watch it like out in the main house, so I'll turn on the captions whether people are sleeping and I watch it like out in the main house, so I'll turn on the captions whether it's on TV or on my laptop and take my notes Interesting.
Speaker 1:I just asked cause Cooper watches everything with captions when I'm not. I can't stand to have captions on, even though I do. I do have hearing issues. Um, I just turn it fucking loud as hell and it drives my whole house crazy. But I cause I I get distracted, cause I have attention problems, so like trying to read and watch. That's why I have a hard time watching foreign films that have subtitles, because I just like I can't.
Speaker 1:Yeah both, but Cooper, I don't know why he does. He just says he likes to have them on.
Speaker 2:So I do too, and I wonder if it's like that, like an auditory thing, and he just doesn't realize, he doesn't know that. That's why, um, there's pitfalls to it though, because the way a person tells a joke, like pacey, for example- sometimes I see what he's gonna say before he says it. Oh, got it, so like my brain processes it and then he delivers the line yeah and it's like you kind of lose the surprise or whatever the acting choice a little bit. Yes, so there's that, and that's not just in Dawson's Creek.
Speaker 1:That's in any. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Or there's like a pause before something suspenseful happens, but the caption already has it up there. Generally, captions are pretty good at like being where they're supposed to be, but every now and then. So then you like hear the thing and it's not revealed the way, maybe the filmmaker or the screenwriter wanted it to be revealed.
Speaker 1:So that does happen. I will say, though, one more thing on captions. I'm glad that they have them now. They're just commonplace Cause I remember, um, I had a friend in high school whose brother was hearing impaired, Like he was deaf in one ear and was partially hearing in the other, and it was really hard for them to find stuff that had closed captions. Like they had some like one TV in their house, I think, was like super expensive, like that they could put captions on, but not every show had it enabled.
Speaker 1:And I like, because nobody in my family at that time, you know, had hearing issues. I didn't even realize that that was like a thing. And you know what else.
Speaker 2:Somebody asked at the theater where I, uh bartend, and we perform at sometimes um, why we don't have interpreters or like a closed cap, like, um, they call them something in theaters where they have the voice and they were like it's just especially because, like if it's the musical, like if the sound is really hard if you think of a musical like, I'll use great comment as an example, because our local high school recently did it. I loved that show. I really thought it was beautiful and well done and and they did such a good job. I think I would have enjoyed it more if I had had captions, see I I know it's been able to keep up, and they're a high school, so like yeah, I do not expect that, but that's just an example of in like a professional theater setting or something where that would be super helpful, I think it is expensive, Like I did ask.
Speaker 1:I did ask because I wanted to be able to tell the patron like the answer. This happened a while ago and the answer was is the price? It's just really expensive to get the stuff to set it up in a community theater, of course, and even to pay an interpreter, every single, you know, 16 shows or whatever that's, that's pricey, pricey, yeah. And it's a non-profit theater, so like yeah it's hard.
Speaker 2:It's hard anyway, but at least we have it on tv. But we do.
Speaker 1:And that's great, all right so.
Speaker 2:Jen doesn't want to be on the thing, so I like the part where I just put Dawson reminding Pacey that he's the one who changed his own life, true.
Speaker 1:Pacey saying something like that is all because of Andy, because of.
Speaker 2:Andy and he's like and Dawson's like respect Andy, she's awesome and she has really like brought out the best in you, but you have done this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know what you know. I think about that when I, when I work with people with personal training, they're like oh, danny, because of you, blah, blah. And I'm like no, no, I may have given you the information, the knowledge, the tools, but really it's up to you, like. And that's exactly what she did. So she gave him the information, the tools, some tactics, but it was up. He could have got all that from her and not done anything.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Right, he could have, just so it was all on him not to have his arc you know, Correct. And then Pacey's got that whole speech about how he's afraid that he's a fraud.
Speaker 1:Like in that moment and I just feel so sad. I know, and he's afraid that he's a fraud, like in that moment and I just get so sad.
Speaker 2:I know he's like I'm afraid one day she's gonna look at me and really see me.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and I think we've all had that fear in life.
Speaker 2:Oh, totally it's kind of like imposter syndrome, which is a thing so there's that but then for relationships too, yeah, where you think, well, the only reason they must like me this much is because they don't really know me.
Speaker 2:When generally that's not the case, unless you're deliberately trying to deceive someone, which is different. But if you're being vulnerable with someone and actually engaging in an honest relationship, they do see you, even if they don't know all the little things. But it's easy to kind of feel like at any moment this could all be taken away and I just I felt like that was a really, really cool moment, uh, to have him and dawson kind of having that conversation yeah um, then they start renovating the ice house in this one.
Speaker 1:Okay, can we just talk about dawson doing manual labor? Yes, we can. Hilarious, and it was like a turn on for joey. She was like, oh, except he didn't even know what a level was. Yeah, he's like what's this for? And I'm like, okay, I am the least handy person in the history of the world, but I know what a level is.
Speaker 2:Dawson, hello, come on so it's funny because my dad's in construction right and he would kind of do this thing if I would date someone long enough and have them help him with stuff, whether it was at the house or like hey you need some extra hours.
Speaker 2:Like I've got a roofing project and I had, um, this one pretty serious boyfriend high school and college and we're still friends today and he still runs into my dad and they say hi and stuff that actually would like go work with him in the summer. But same thing, he didn't know how to do anything. But by the end of it he did right.
Speaker 2:But it was funny because I was like I can't tell if he's trying to make me like not like them yeah, because they're so inept, right this stuff or if, like, he's genuinely like you know, here's some skills I don't know. Or or testing can they learn skills? Can they learn and to be on like, know, obviously you don't have to know how to be handy and build stuff. I shouldn't say inept, no, I'm inept To be a man or whatever.
Speaker 2:Like you don't have to know how to do all that stuff, but like it was just sort of a fun. It really reminded me of that. I also like the line Dawson said when he was talking to Joey and he says wait, a relative of yours is complaining and acting negative. I think they were talking about was it bessie?
Speaker 2:maybe they were talking about her dad, I don't know, I don't remember, but it was just really funny and and she laughed because the arc in this one for joey is she's so happy at the start because all her things are coming true, her dad's back um dawson and her doing great they're renovating the ice house. Like everything is good which, unfortunately, her art goes the other way, I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, do you have anything else with that? Not with that part? No, okay, I was gonna say I, like I said I literally didn't have a lot of.
Speaker 2:I don't have that much more, but I wrote down about Andy.
Speaker 1:So you know, her dad wants her to go. Originally she doesn't want to leave, but then she has this realization and she feels good about it. And she, I think that she, she wants to get back, she wants to leave because she knows she needs to to get better, and I think that's very mature.
Speaker 1:And I actually am glad that they wrote that the way they did, because for her all these people are like, no, we're going to say, we're going to say, and then she wanted to say, but then when she really thought about it she was like all right, it's more important that I get better so I can come back here to this life. I really like, yes, and I can't get better here, I have to go. And I think that that is a very mature thing. I totally agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree, and that she didn't really want to go Right.
Speaker 1:Because she knew she had to.
Speaker 2:Discomfort and missing people and, you know, not the greatest relationship with her dad. Plus, it's just freaking hard to face your struggles. It's hard to confront them whatever they are. It is hard to heal, very hard, and you know she probably knew she could sort of keep masking and staying where she was or that she needed to really remove herself from the situation and at the end of the day, her dad does have the resources to get her the best help out there. The one thing that was he bringing the mom with him. It sounded like it.
Speaker 1:He said your mom and sister need help, but like okay, the mom should have been with, like I don't know, that's another story, that's whatever.
Speaker 2:They didn't really delve too deep into that, but that that was the vibe that I got. I also. That was what was happening.
Speaker 1:The combo that Jack and his dad have, or his dad's Was talking about Jack choosing his sexuality and he's like People have changed back.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That killed me, but I loved how Jack, especially this episode. There were two times.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:When he's having really difficult conversations with people that he said all the right things he did. And this was the first one. Yeah, when he was. Like it's not a choice, basically.
Speaker 1:It's who I am, it's just who I am.
Speaker 2:And if I tried to act like I wasn't doing that, it would be for your benefit. Correct, not his.
Speaker 1:And I'm not doing that anymore. And you know what it made me think of I, their parents, felt the same as Jack's and sent them to conversion camps. And like that breaks my heart. In fact, I have one friend who was sent several times. Wow, guess what Didn't work.
Speaker 2:Still gay? Yeah, because.
Speaker 1:And now you've just broken, and now you've created this trust with your Even more trauma yes, and more difficulty've just broken and now you've created even more trauma yes, and more difficulty and more, and given money to fucking asshole people. I don't know I I. Anytime I see something like that, that's what I think of, and I think of the stories that have been told to me, and it's, it's just terrible. I just can't imagine, as a parent, being like I'm going to send you away. Not that his dad's saying well, kind of he was alluding to it. He's like there's ways people can change. He didn't say he was going to send him away to a convention camp.
Speaker 2:No, no, but it didn't get that far.
Speaker 1:He was also like we need to deal with your stuff too, or something like that, and I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's just sad and at the end of that conversation which was essentially their dad saying the things you're saying and Jack sort of countering with the things I said it did there was a moment where his dad you see in his face that it's kind of sinking in TBD. If that will work out. But and then jack starts to walk away and he says wait, jack, and he turns around and you can see him trying to kind of get up the courage to say something and he doesn't.
Speaker 2:He doesn't, which is kind of sad, but also like something is clicking, hopefully, but that's kind of how that and that's how that scene ends.
Speaker 1:Well because we have a moment like that with pacey's dad in the next episode. Correct Right, it's the next one, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we've also got this side story of Jen in this episode where she calls because she's still staying over at Dawson's. She calls her parents to see if she can come back to New York. We don't know how that ends till later. So we see her at a bus stop. So how that ends till later. So we see her at a bus stop.
Speaker 1:So we're like oh, is she going to new york and jack runs into?
Speaker 2:her, finds her there, he goes there. Okay, on purpose to tell her not to go okay okay, and then we find out her parents don't want her to come back, but she's just basically going wherever and jack convinces her to stay with him. Yeah, because he, because he's going to need a roommate, which for now that's kind of where that goes, which is so fucking crazy.
Speaker 1:I know, I know Like I need a roommate, I'm 16. Come be a roommate with me.
Speaker 2:16-year-old fellow In this like really beautiful, huge, nice house. But this was another tough conversation he had with Jen and he and he says to her parents should love kids unconditionally, they don't have to earn it, they don't have to be any particular way or thing, which of course is also relating back to his own situation. But I put jack truth from. Jack truth bombs the entire episode because it's true and so they kind of he gets her to knock it on the bus and we were like, okay, they're gonna be roommates.
Speaker 2:Then the bombshell of the episode, when dawson comes into the ice house and sees uh, joey's dad and his friend pete in the back and he sees them with it's like a white substance, it looks like cocaine and the guy says something like let the good times roll or something stupid and of course austin's like frozen and like oh my god, um, but I get him. I get him, not necessarily wanting to say something to joey right away, and this spills into the next episode yeah um, but that was a really. That was a tough one, without going too far in the weeds for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Having a loved one in and out of incarceration Cause. Every time they get out of incarceration, you hope that that was the time that turned everything around. And how quickly, oh, it can deteriorate, especially if you go back to your same environment.
Speaker 1:Well, I haven't had a family member incarcerated, but I have had one in rehab and it's the same thing, because you're kind of just holding your breath. Yeah, right, you're just holding your breath and that's why they have halfway houses for both purposes. Right, it's kind of to ease you back, so you don't go back into those circumstances and sleep on the couch of the friend that enabled you before. For whatever.
Speaker 2:Right that you've got. You know whatever, or you're on the street, or whatever it may be, and I mean like this is a cliche.
Speaker 1:But when you say old habits die hard, it's true. It is true, yeah, especially if you made money off drugs.
Speaker 2:Yep, like and you're like okay, it's just going to be this one time to get my family back.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to get my feet wet, just get a, get a little bit of my pocket and then that's it, and then I'm done.
Speaker 2:I could totally see the appeal of that, me too. Honestly, I can kind of see, I can totally see where he's coming from and I think the frustrating part, as a viewer, then is that you want to say, like, your family doesn't care about that, I know, they just want you and they don't care if they don't have a lot of money, if they have to work hard at your restaurant, like, no, they don't care.
Speaker 1:I just want you, and that's the first time. I think that's probably hard because he has so much guilt. Yes, he feels like I'm their lone parent left. I'm their provider, like you know all it's just very complicated.
Speaker 2:Very complicated, very complicated.
Speaker 1:I also and I felt for Dawson too. I remembered all this from before watching this. I feel for Dawson too, this whole time, because that's a lot of pressure. Do I say, or do I not say, right, and I mean, this is like a legal thing. Right, you know? Like, for instance, if we saw one of our family members doing that, that would be very like OK, what do we do? Like like, if I saw one of your family members, would I tell you.
Speaker 2:I don't know That'd be hard, right, I think you would. I mean I would.
Speaker 1:I'm not good with secrets.
Speaker 2:So maybe we'll let's flip that. I know what you mean.
Speaker 1:Like that's a that's a very heavy weight to carry because he knows it's gonna just tear her up and then the other side of it, which we come into in the next episode is that she's could also be in a dangerous situation, correct?
Speaker 2:and if she's not aware at all, correct, she's not prepared at all. Yeah, which we'll get into, so let's, so should we go into the?
Speaker 1:oh wait, yeah, I had to have one funny thing from this episode. You know when Andy and Pacey go on their date night. Yes, what the fuck up was with his shirt, I don't even remember it. Oh my God, it was blue velvet, again, again with the velvet, ok, and it had like some kind of design on it.
Speaker 2:OK, so bad. How did you not notice? I mean, I watched the scene, I just didn't notice that his outfit was bad.
Speaker 1:They put Pacey in some dumb ass clothes. They really do. I mean, I remember people wearing velvet shirts, but like it was bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, his are bad. The only other thing I said about this one was watching Andy drive away with her dad was like painful, I know.
Speaker 1:Although hopeful, because you're like okay, well, and you could see pacey like had so much nervous, like sad energy, could you see that when she was walked, like he was trying so hard to keep it together for her but he like couldn't, like, yeah, their whole, I put, yeah, I put a sad face.
Speaker 2:Pacey and andy's not goodbye, because they said they didn't want it to be. Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:And wait till next season. Oh God, I know.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, so moving into the next season finale.
Speaker 1:we've only got like a few minutes left. This one's called parental discretion advice. Summary is as Dawson wrestles with Mr Potter's drug dealing, pacey squares off with his dad. So lots still with the character erics, lots still with the parents.
Speaker 2:So much going on. Really early in the episode Jen and Jack have this almost after school special conversation about suicide. I mean it's not funny but, like it's not funny. It was the way that they she was like. Well, did you know One? In blah blah blah it was written. It was weird.
Speaker 1:Hello, yeah, what, the way it was written was not natural and very like, oh, we better throw these facts in. And hey, let's hit on teen suicide while we're at it. Yeah, I felt like, uh, did you ever watch Glee? Yeah, okay, yeah, okay. So do you? Do you remember? Towards the end of the the show, I felt like they every episode they tried to throw in as many like lessons like that as they could, like the texting while driving, like the like. I feel like that was a moment like that.
Speaker 1:Like definitely was like oh, we should hit on teen suicide, let's throw that in there. It was weird. I was weird. I'm with you.
Speaker 2:Um, I thought that it was interesting foreshadowing when pacey's in the car with his dad and he hears the transmission about surveillance I know I know, and he's like, because dawson saw the drugs in the last episode but he hasn't said anything to anyone.
Speaker 2:So pacey's like, why are you doing that? Like, leave mr potter alone. Hasn't he been through enough? And you know his dad, who's a jerk and continues to be a jerk this episode, but then has a little arc at the end, is kind of like, well, you don't know everything Right Basically, and that's my job, yeah, you know. So that was. I thought that was really good foreshadowing. Okay, I had a little rabbit hole, uh-oh, and it, it's okay, don't worry. So the man comes in, who I thought the whole season was the principal, and he says your favorite guidance counselor is here, the older guy, yeah, the old guy. I said, is this guy a guidance counselor? Yeah, the whole time. So when he was trying to get that teacher fired, he kept going to that guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he's a guidance counselor.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I was like what? The principal is younger, is it the lady? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought she was a vice principal, I don't know why. Well, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. So then I was like so I pulled up, because in Amazon Prime they have, like the cast, oh, uh-huh, uh-huh, and he's Richard K Olsen. He was in the face on the milk carton. Stop it, he the principal on that? I think. So, yeah, oh. So that's why you thought he was principal, maybe because I wouldn't have been that far of a time. Jump a little bit. Oh, you're like he's a principal everywhere. I'm like this guy isn't a guidance counselor. You're like you forgot your role.
Speaker 2:Get out of here get out of here, guys so anyway that was it? I was going down rabbit hole for richard k olson. Well, I okay. Another person we haven't talked about yet is gail.
Speaker 1:Yep, okay, I was going down a rabbit hole for Richard K Olson. Well, I, okay. Another person we haven't talked about yet is Gail. Yep, okay, again, gail, getting on my nerves just telling Mitch what she's doing. Okay, that's not how you co-parent.
Speaker 1:Like, okay, I am, I'm not in a co-parenting situation, but you are, and like you don't get to like that is bad co-parenting. Let me put it that way. There you go. She is just like well, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that and you're gonna, and dawson will come here and there. But she tries to make it look like dawson has a choice and mitch is kind of like what you're doing, like what you want, and like I just feel bad for fucking mitch man, not because I have a crush on him, but because, uh because, but because I feel like he just gets like well, your wife had an affair on you, so now you have to move out. Now your wife wants to go have this great job again. Now you have to adjust your life. Meanwhile, this poor man's trying to figure out how to like live his dream and still be parent, because Gail gets to just be an anchor and all her things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I agree, I like what she said in that conversation, though when they're talking about the job or I guess it's later, it's later, I'll save it, okay, it's the other conversation they have and he does say to her I feel like you're choosing this job Over Dawson, and I think maybe that's like too simplified. Yeah, it is, and it's definitely a mom guilt thing to be like you're choosing a job? Well, right, no, and I didn't love that.
Speaker 1:What I don't like, though, is that she is just making the choice without consulting.
Speaker 2:Mitch no, I agree. I agree Because.
Speaker 1:It should be a family decision. It should be, because really a family. If you are really trying to co-parent before you move out of state, you should have that conversation, yeah, and get all the things ironed out. I mean just for legal reasons.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, that too yeah. Anyway, moving on Speaking of parents, let's talk about Pacey's fucking dad. Yeah, I said just a mess. The assault is just way too far.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Slapped him in the face, Slapped him in the face, and then Pacey punches him back Later. But I think though I think they put that there just so you knew how toxic their relationship is.
Speaker 2:I totally agree. Yeah, I understand why they wrote it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, like I, but one thing I didn't love about that, though, is the dad almost appears to have more respect for Pacey after Pacey punches him. I know and I like that.
Speaker 1:But I feel like that's that toxic masculinity, whole aura that the dad's about, I guess.
Speaker 2:But like, by the end he's like no, you should have done it like, because he's like sorry again you and and I was just kind of like so this is the thing that makes him like impressed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's a piece of shit and also toxic masculinity oh, definitely, and a cop in the late 90s. That's part of the culture then yeah, I guess that's true, but yeah, so his dad, wow, okay, so then we come.
Speaker 2:Can we come to the big the?
Speaker 1:fire. Yeah, yeah, let's talk about the fire.
Speaker 2:There's a fire set, yeah, in the ice house while, like, joe and her classmates are quietly like doing homework, doing homework, and the dad's in the back and the police have just been there, yeah, and he's still there. He's like out heading to his car they were about to leave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's getting ready to leave.
Speaker 2:And someone lights a fire in the back and everything goes up in flames and then they all get out Spoiler alert.
Speaker 1:Oh, but okay, dawson, going in with the fire hydrant trying to get the dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, hero. Yeah, I forgot he did that. I did too and I was like what's happening and to kind of put that back to him, like not knowing what the level was or whatever. So that's a bit of a character arc where now you're just grabbing whatever you can find and breaking windows and pulling people through them.
Speaker 1:But I feel like that's what happens, though. Like you're you know, it's like when you get superhuman strength because you're totally, you just go into that mode. I know that's happened to me before with my kids in emergency situations. Because I am not a good person generally. In a crisis Like I know this about myself I'm just not, I freak out and whatever, but like when it's extreme situations I am, I like click, you click into another mode.
Speaker 1:Like Kayden got attacked by this pit bull one time yeah, it was anyway, and troy had to stay and deal with call the cops and this stuff.
Speaker 1:It was a mess and I had to get him to the er and we lived like half hour away and he was bleeding and terrified and I remember just being totally fine. Happened again with troy having to go to the hospital, this last time and he's screaming in pain and I have no idea what's happening and I'm just like calm as a cucumber. And then later so I'm able to keep it together, like you know, dawson busts in there and all the shit. And then later it's like it all hits you and you're like, yep, what the gravity of it. Yeah, it's like delayed reaction, like you can't handle it in the in the moment, but then later. So I feel like that's probably dawson, like he's just running on that. I have to fucking do this, I have to do this, and then later he's like kind of you can kind of see it when he comes out and he's just standing out, yeah what's going on, but yeah, so they all get out they all get out.
Speaker 1:Everybody's okay. The dad's okay. He was trying to flush so much drugs down the toilet. He was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was, and so that's kind of the moment where we see Dawson kind of click, like okay, now this is just fucking dangerous, not just for me, but for Joey and for every fucking other person. That was just in there. I'm going to say something. So that's kind of where that is. And so before dawson gets a chance to really tell anyone, joey confronts her dad about it and asks him back at home when he lied and he lies.
Speaker 2:She's like do you know who set the fire? Was it an arson? It doesn't have to do with drugs. And he, he swore on whatever. And bessie didn't want her to ask and she did anyway. So then Joey goes out to the dock and Dawson comes down and basically tells her what he knows. Yeah, and she's kind of mean about it and says like, oh, you're wrong, he just swore to me and I thought it was interesting I don't remember if it was there or when.
Speaker 1:Another time, when I wrote this down. Joey tells Dawson like like that she sees things in gray and Dawson see things, sees things in black and white. And, um, I was like damn. I feel that, yeah, I mean, because for her it's not that. He's just like it's simple. You tell like it's dangerous, tell like here it is. It is like here's the solution. And she's like well, it's not. Though I live in this gray area of, but but what if?
Speaker 2:and I think that's certainly a personality thing, but it's also depending what part of a situation you are so dawson's an outsider, correct, so to him.
Speaker 1:So for him it is simple. But if it was his dad, maybe it'd be great, right, it'd be a lot more complicated.
Speaker 2:You know. So, yeah, I think that's a really, really good way to look at it. And Dawson does say in that conversation he says I'm willing to lose you, like this relationship and you wanting to be with me over this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because it's that important Right, because he was talking about like his, like that's just the right thing, and his morals and she's like, well, kind of fuck your morals, like this is my life. That's not the conversation, guys.
Speaker 2:But it was kind of similar and I get that Like I do.
Speaker 1:There are times that moral lines are blurred because you're, you're shit like your love and your shit gets in the way. Sure, and yeah, it's not always as simple as somebody else thinks.
Speaker 2:Right, sure, and yeah, it's not always as simple as somebody else thinks, right? So then we go to the scene where gail and mitch are sitting together. Yeah, on the picnic table. It looked like he had on like a maybe ll bean or something jacket, he looked so cute.
Speaker 2:But mitch basically says you know, going through these challenging things the last couple days as a family unit have reminded me how much I miss it and he kind of gets down on one knee. But this is the part where Gail basically says you want what we had Right, which we aren't ever going to have again. Nope, even if we could start something new, that was great, it'll never be the same. And she's like this job is the first thing that's felt right in a long time and it's good.
Speaker 2:I think that she said that Because she's not trying to be like, well, maybe once, blah, blah, blah. She's like this is over, you know. But I understood him like feeling like, oh, we could do this, because we just did these last couple days when we were here for Dawson and like he went through this and we've like helped him through it so far. Obviously it's not over yet. But I thought that was interesting, and then we've got Jen. I know Poor.
Speaker 1:Jen, I just write, poor Jen. I just I feel for her all the time and like when they're reunited and that Alana song is playing that I would be good. I love that song. I was crying Me too. And then they show Jack sitting on the swing with his duffel bag.
Speaker 2:So sweet Look. Look, that's what I wrote what Broken heart.
Speaker 1:Oh my God yeah.
Speaker 2:That was really, really powerful and liked that jen came back with conditions, yeah, and that grams was like soft well, and I think it took, I mean again grams fucked up.
Speaker 1:so she, she realizes that she wants him to come back and she gets it, she gets it, and so and then, and then, after that we have pacey and his dad scene where paceacey's dad talks to Andy on the phone Because the reason Pacey punches his dad is because he insults Andy.
Speaker 2:Correct Right, not because it had anything to do with him directly, and so.
Speaker 1:But then when his dad apologizes and hugs him and Pacey like sobs.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know, I know.
Speaker 1:Because that sob was not just because he missed Andy. That sob is because his dad probably never has hugged him oh, totally. And never has apologized, yeah, and so many other things.
Speaker 2:And feeling, at least in that moment.
Speaker 1:Pacey feeling seen by his dad.
Speaker 2:Yes, that his dad's basically like I understand you because of this thing, yes, and just that feeling sometimes can just be really overwhelming, yeah, emotionally.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, that was beautiful. And then, and then again after that, I just kept writing, and then, and then Joey with the wire oh, I know, kept writing, and then.
Speaker 2:And then joey with the wire oh, I know, I knew it was coming because, like I said, I remember this episode and I knew as soon as she walked in there and was standing away from him. So essentially, joey talks to the cop well, to pacey's dad, and he wants her to. He doesn't say wear a wire, but he just says, if you can get him to like, be honest with us, it would be better for him, right? So next thing you know she's in their kitchen standing away from him, basically him confessing about the drugs and the and this is why I was doing it and then she shows him yeah, I'm sorry, it was like on her tummy.
Speaker 2:And then you see them like arresting him and taking him out and then bessie's there with the baby. Which which the baby? Hello baby. Yeah, Normally you don't like see the baby. And the baby looked like the boyfriend who's apparently missing in action and Bessie, like I was like, oh, that's what the baby looks like, yeah, okay. And then she kind of walks by her, not meanly, but not warmly either. Yeah, that was weird, I didn't like that, but I get it. It's emotional.
Speaker 1:It is, it's confusing, it's confusing, so.
Speaker 2:Joey's dad being hauled back to jail, and then her and Dawson have this thing at the end where they confront each other and and I get it, cause it's kind of misplaced anger. But what I thought was interesting is Joey says to him she's like maybe I'll be able to forgive my dad, maybe I'll be able to forgive myself.
Speaker 1:I will never forgive you I know, I felt so bad for dawson like you can forgive your dad, whose fault this whole thing is but not dawson.
Speaker 2:I know like hello, like I don't know, I didn't like that I felt bad for him. I get it. I get why, in that moment, she's lashing out and I know and you know they do say we know this as parents. You lash out at the people that are closest to you, and that's probably what she was doing. He's a safe space, but I felt so bad for him and then that's how the?
Speaker 1:season ends, I know, so that's what I'm saying we can't stop now. No, we can't stop. Okay, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess we'll just keep.
Speaker 1:we'll decide, we're just going to keep going. Yeah, we're going to keep going.
Speaker 2:We'll keep going. Well, thank you guys for listening to all of season two, oh my gosh. And hopefully you'll stick around for season three and all of our other episodes Zenial Girl, summer. Check it out. Lots of books and movies. I hope you'll read and watch with us. Yes, absolutely, and make sure you're reviewing us and sharing us with your friends, and we will see you next time.
Speaker 1:See you next time here on Generation Inbetween. Bye.
Speaker 2:Bye, bye, bye, bye.
