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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek, S2 E19 & 20: Grief, Hallucinations and Moving On
The boundaries between memory and truth blur when death visits Capeside in episode 19 & 20 of Dawson's Creek, Season 2. As the tight-knit friend group confronts the sudden drowning of their classmate Abby Morgan, each character grapples with grief in ways that reveal their deeper wounds and beliefs.
You can rewatch Dawson's Creek, S2 with us on Hulu.
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Welcome back, listeners, to our Nostalgic or Problematic series, where we are re-watching season two of Dawson's Creek and we're getting close to the end. So it's wild Almost. We are on season two, episode 19. It is called Rest in Peace and here is the summary. Just as it forces Joey to confront her own mother's death, abby's drowning causes Jen to lose her faith in everything.
Speaker 1:Yes, trigger warning this was a huge downer of an episode, big time. I, yeah, it was a lot. Well, I think too, I was thinking of it when I was watching it. I was thinking of you, yeah, because you had grief on that level. Yes, when you were a young person. Yes, I think I look at it as a lens of, like, what I know about grief. Now, I really never lost anyone quote unquote really important to me until I was an adult. Okay, so I never had to really toggle through grief as a young person. It's never easy anytime, but I just I thought about you a lot when I was watching this one, because I just imagine it's a different experience watching this. Yeah, and you know it's weird because I think I remember it being hard when I watched it at the time, even though I was like 19.
Speaker 1:For those of y'all who are new here, my dad passed away when I was 11 right before I turned 12, he committed suicide. So that is something that I'm okay talking about. So I'm not going to like lose my mind, but I'm just saying like, anytime there is death that comes up with young people, it brings you right back. I mean, I'm almost 45 years old. It's been a long time. But when you see grief, even though it's a drama and it's not real, a lot of what they said is close to a real experience, like how Joey in this episode, it had been three years she hadn't been back to her mother's grave. I've only been to my dad's grave a handful of times in my life because I don't like to go. It doesn't do anything for me, right, and I don't live close by. Even if I did, and even the times I did live close by it for me, I don't need that, right. For some people it helps them to go Well and I think in her case, at least in this episode, it must have been something she was consciously not doing Right, so for her to be able to confront the thing she'd been avoiding, I think was the point of that and whether she ever goes again or not, who knows. But I know what you mean. It really it's not necessary, it doesn't do much here. I'm fixing your mic really quick, I don't know why, but that was like popped up and it may not matter because of me, but I just want to make sure, yeah. So I also thought and you know we can kind of skip around on our thoughts on this the whole sort of rose colored glasses with a person was done. Well in this episode is. And if you don't watch and you just listen to us, you would still know that she's an instigator.
Speaker 1:She's generally not a nice person. She likes to see people fight, she's has drama and there was already a lot of like in the grief meeting that they have at the beginning, where the grief counselors at the school which, yay, good, wonderful grief counselor being there, good idea and andy and everyone's kind of saying all these nice things about her, to the point that Jen gets up and leaves, yeah, because she's like you're not telling the truth. What are you saying? Yeah, and yes, everyone should say how they feel or how they want to process grief, not saying they shouldn't, but this idea that she was. This always lights up a room. Everyone's great friend blah blah blah is not true to the reality of who she was.
Speaker 1:Well, it's tricky, I think, when people pass, because I remember my mom used to always say people always want to make the dead a martyr. And you know, human beings are very complex. And also another reason I don't know where we're going to be at when this episode airs. My mom has been in the hospital for a week now, which is complicated for a lot of reasons that I'm not going to go into all of it, but it was odd to watch this at the same time, and my sister and I have had, I mean, we've been talking every day, sometimes a couple of times a day, trying to keep updated and all the things, because neither one of us live close by. We have a very confusing relationship with our mom and it's tricky and complicated.
Speaker 1:And I think sometimes when people die or when they're very sick, you consciously just only focus on the good, yeah, and that's okay. But also it's important to remember there's other pieces of them too that you have to remember are going to affect people. So in this episode it's like all these people are like just saying these things, but Jen's like no, she was terrible, she fucking hated you, she was mean, like you can't forget that as well. Well, I'm not saying you need to blast it at a funeral, right, what do they say? But don't speak ill of the dead. But I think you have to be honest, like I'm always. I feel like honesty is always the best. Now you don't have to share everything, but I don't, I mean, it is it. It's very tricky, I guess is the best kind of way to say it, and I can feel that.
Speaker 1:And I remember when my dad died it was a lot of that and you know, him and my mom were divorced and they didn't have a very pretty divorce. It wasn't horrible. But you know, I can remember her being frustrated in that whole ending because, anyway, that I won't go into all that, but it is anyway. The point is that was a very realistic. I thought they did a good job of that. And to your point, I think it To me honors a person more to view them as a whole person and not make them a martyr. Yeah, or to view them as a whole person and not make them a martyr, because, and also for the people that remain one, if someone's saying like, oh, let's say your parent was amazing and this and that, and then maybe the kid doesn't feel that way, right, kid, even a grown kid, right? Or you know again, if that was your experience, that's one thing, but sort of making things more than they were, and I know why we do it. It's human nature, I know it's what happens.
Speaker 1:Funerals are for the living, they're not for the dead. Of course Funerals are for the living and so I always tell my husband and my sister I'm like if y'all are living past me, I don't want a funeral. I don't want y'all are living past me, I don't want a funeral. I don't want y'all to be like have a party, do something fun, get together, put on costumes. Do you think Troy would dress like a taco for my birthday? Sure, he did for my birthday.
Speaker 1:But like you know what I'm saying, like I'm and people you know, my sister and I have talked a lot about morbid things lately, about what would you want your body to be done. I'm like I don't fucking care, I won't be here. Do whatever the hell you want. Burn me up, bury me, it doesn't matter, I'm not here. You don't get a. Say Right, no matter what you believe happens to yourself after you die, whether it's something or nothing, or you don't know, you don't, you don't know, like it doesn't matter, it's whatever the living people feel. That's doing. Correct For sure. Correct, and you can give them your input, because maybe that's what they want, maybe they're like I want to do what they want.
Speaker 1:And some people have huge, huge opinions on what happens to their bodies after dying, and that's fine. I just don't, yeah, you personally don't, I just don't care, like it doesn't matter. Well, and you're just a very practical person and you're, you know, minimalist in general. So I feel like that makes sense, that in death you're like I don't need, like what's the point? You know how, like, um, irish people have like a tradition, like after people pass and I don't remember what they call it but they like get together in a pub and just talk, like share stories. Yeah, do that. Yeah, I love that, but only good ones. Don't talk about shitty. No, actually tell the shitty ones too, because that's I think that's my whole self Totally, and I yeah, I mean, I think that that's, you know, even with my own mom, who's living, but living with Alzheimer's and so not really with us, even though her body is still here and functioning day to day. You know same.
Speaker 1:I actually struggled with feelings of that grief when she was first diagnosed and I still go through this sometimes, where it's not all like she was so great, this is terrible. Like I had to confront a lot of things that were like this wasn't great that she did, or we didn't really have a great relationship X, y and Z, but in a way, in a lot of ways, that's made me a better advocate for her. Okay, because I'm viewing her as a whole person, right, right, right. It's not just like, oh, this tragic story of this person that's no longer. It's like, no, no, she was a whole person. She is a whole person, she's a different person, and so I think kind of confronting all the nuances fills out who the person is, whether they're living still and there was something strained there, or they have an illness, or whether they've passed away, yeah, and you can really humanize that experience and really, instead of just making it kind of a stereotype or a trope, right, which I think is what that, what Jen was trying to say, like, yes, I thought what she said was fine. Yeah, I mean, I was behind her. Yeah, I mean, and then her grams was so terrible to her about it, and I mean I did not like the Graham stuff.
Speaker 1:I also. I know I also didn't like all the performative grief. You know, like that one girl was like we have armbands and it's like bitch, you do not care. No, like you will blink in two days and be back to your life. And it wasn't. So why pretend? Yeah, there was a lot of performative, yeah, but again, that was probably written that way on purpose. No, I'm saying, but that's what I mean. I'm not saying the show's fault, that's also realistic. I mean in real life, when that happens, because it does happen, it does, it does. And I just all the God talk. Let me tell you what.
Speaker 1:When my dad died, when I was a kid, we were, I was part of the church, we were all part of, you know, christian belief system, and I cannot even tell you this how many people told me this stupid shit that Graham said that is not what you want to hear. Like well, god has a plan, really, does he? Because how does that fit? And then it's like, oh well, he's your, your dad's in a better place, and he, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:When also what I really needed somebody to say was your dad was struggling and this he felt like this was his only way out. Yeah, yeah, that's not God's plan. Well, I don't know Whatever, I don't believe in God anymore, but it wasn't comforting. It did not help me because all it did was make me mad, like Jen, because it's like well then, so his plan was for me to have no, no dad now, like his plan was for us to go through like you know what I mean? Right, right, it's just his plan was for him to die by his own hand in this tragic way. Like what? And I think too, sometimes just acknowledging that it's horrible is comforting To have someone say this really sucks, yeah, and I am so sorry that you're going through this, yeah, and that's enough Enough.
Speaker 1:And I can remember as a kid having such a problem with that, like that was probably, and I never, never, like really talked about it till I was older. But I remember thinking, if God has a plan like he's mean, right, literally, because that's mean, why would you plan for all this bullshit to happen? And nobody can really give you a good reason for that, even when you do ask that it's like. Oh well, you know whatever original sin, but that's not really a great reason and I'm not listen. If that is your belief system, you are allowed to believe whatever you want. I'm telling you what I think. Yeah, so yeah, and the and the way that it affected your trauma then and how you process it now, correct Absolutely.
Speaker 1:But I, I mean I hated it cause I know how she felt Like I feel so bad for Jen. Jen just watched her friend die, literally Was there, tried to save her and couldn't and she was already going through some bullshit for the past two years, right, and the last thing she needs. She already told Graham repeatedly I don't believe in what you believe in and Graham's just keeps on. I know it almost to me felt opportunistic of Graham, yes, like, yes, like ooh, okay, this thing is the thing that's going to get me to get her to believe, because she's at this low, vulnerable point and that's worse. It didn't happen. It is worse. That's worse when you.
Speaker 1:It makes it feel very like non-consenting and non like it's your own will. It's very disrespectful when someone's swooping in at a low moment to be like you know that'd be like someone. I'm sorry if this is kind of crass since I'm talking about religion, but that would be like someone trying to like sell you something in your grief. But that is what it is Like spend like, almost like trying to take your money from you because you're at a low point. That's what it reminds me of and, you know, if someone really is feeling that belief system, then they're going to feel it when they have a clear head, when they have peace in their life. They're not. It's not like, oh, let's get them at their lowest now. Now's the time we can swoop in, and that's how Graham's actions in this episode felt to me Like I don't think she was coming from a place of, of deceit, like, but I think that that's how it does come across.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know, like, I don't think it's. I don't ever think it's. Uh, what's the right word I'm looking for here? I don't ever think it's ill intentions, true, but it doesn't matter. Like, what's that saying of your intentions? Don't matter if your impact is negative, like, you can have all the good intentions in the world, but if your impact is negative, who the fuck cares? Yeah, it's still not. Don't do it. You know what I mean. Yeah, it was still not the right thing to do. Right, I totally agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I want to talk a little bit about Andy's involvement in this episode. Okay, so so, so remember several episodes ago where I was like, oh, I wanted to see what Abby's mom looked like. Well, we see Abby's mom in this one Very run of the mill 90s mom, whatever. And she runs into Andy and of course Andy, being polite and kind and comforting in the moment, is nice about Abby, and so then she asked her to kind of give a eulogy or say some words, but Andy doesn't know what to say. They go to her house, which I wrote down this line from pacey. He's like I don't know, I was kind of expecting a gothic castle and this is normal, looking like two-story house, you know, in capeside, cute, you know whatever.
Speaker 1:And they go in and andy finds her diary, uh-huh, and pacey right away is like hey, like I think privacy remains even in death, and she's like it's not for me, it's, so I know what to say, and of course every page is just how Abby was. It's like I don't like this person. Andy sucks her boyfriend's terrible, like every page, and so it doesn't really help her that much in the long run. Yeah, but I thought that was an interesting scene when Pacey's like well, even now we shouldn't be reading this. Yeah, I mean it is weird, but then again does it matter Because she's gone? Well, and I think of examples of this where we have found I don't know George Washington's diary or other people.
Speaker 1:I think Jackie Kennedy's diary is under lock and key for 50 years after she died and you know that thing's going to say some stuff and eventually we're going to. Well, maybe not us, someone's going to read it. And you're right, like, it does give us clues to who people were. It gives us a snapshot of time. You know, it is a record of the world and it doesn't matter anymore. They're not here. They're not here. They're not here, like if, when I'm gone, go ahead and read my old diary, I already write y'all half of it. Actually, it's so funny.
Speaker 1:When they were reading her pages I was like this sounds like Danny's diary. Well, part of it, cause she's like and I'm mad about this. And I was like I had a lot of feelings, but you were younger than Abby too, not the one that you read, but it was funny. So there was that. And then Andy does end up getting up and saying some words at the funeral. That I appreciated, where she says it's all well and good to praise the people who make you feel good all the time and that's important. We all need those people she's like. But there's also something to the people who challenge you and there's things to learn and there's things about yourself that you can learn and it really does make you a better person and I appreciated that.
Speaker 1:Well, I thought it was good how she found a way to still be honest, yes, but to like. I said, funerals are for the living. And she could see Abby's mom upset, yes, and whoever else in there that was Abby's family. They don't want to sit there and feel like shit. So I thought it was a good way for her to still be honest but also give them that whatever they need. And she said early in the episode the nice things people said about my brother at his funeral I still think about, and so she, of all people, knew what a gift that is to give the living, that little something that they can think about later and be like, wow, this person said that and they impacted their life in this way and I thought that that was, of all the characters, she was the one to kind of have that journey in this episode. Yeah, all the characters. She was the one to kind of have that journey in this episode. Yeah, um, and then I wrote a few things about okay.
Speaker 1:So, totally other side side story, gail getting the new job yeah, in the middle of everything. So she tells dawson she's been offered I don't even write down anything about, yeah, so, in a nutshell, her piece that she did on teenage girls won an award and so now her network is offering her this like network correspondence job, but it's in philadelphia. So she has this conversation with dawson about how well, I guess maybe I'll go there and then dad can move back in and then I'll come see you guys when I can. And obviously it's very fraught with like ah, like what to do on everything. So I was just curious, like your thought.
Speaker 1:My original thought when I watched it, because I have kids in high school was like, oh, I would never, I wouldn't leave because their time at home is so fleeting. Like, like, I can do that later. But then, as I thought about it more and as the episode but you're also still married, you're not divorced, and that's what I thought about yeah, I was like, and if this is like my dream dream, like, for example, if they were like, hey, you're gonna be in a tv show or a show in new york city, yeah, come now. Would I be like, oh, I have to wait two or three years? I feel like I probably would, but that's because I'm married, and but if my kids, and especially dawson he's already almost, almost grown are off doing their own thing and it's one kid and that opportunity might not be there again in two years, maybe I would consider it more.
Speaker 1:I think it's tricky for me because we did move all the time for somebody's job, right, like we didn't have a choice, right, there were times that Troy did pass up certain career opportunities, so our kids would have to move as little as possible. There were things he could have done a little different and had more accolades or whatever kind of jobs, but you don't always get to choose that Right. So I mean so you think she should have taken the job and Dawson should have gone. Well, I don't think he has to, because he can stay there with his dad. I think she should have talked to Mitch first before she talked to Dawson about it. Okay, because Mitch is the parent who would have to change his life again.
Speaker 1:That's true, I hadn't thought of that. So you know she, if they are divorced and they are co-parenting, she's like, oh, your dad can just whatever. I'm like, bitch, he just moved into an apartment and just got his life. You know what I'm saying. You can't just decide that Well, and then you are the default parent, correct, because anything that happens, you are the one there and it's not like 50-50, let's tag team it, right, it's not, it's like I'm the only one. So that's great and all.
Speaker 1:If he's on board with it, because he has to be on board If you are co-parent, plus, legally speaking, he would have to give his consent anyway for you to move out. Like you know what I'm saying. Yeah, especially if Dawson decided he wanted to go, because he's still a minor, right. So I think she should have, because you could tell she hadn't had that conversation yet. No, no, because Dawson brings it up to his dad. Dawson tells his dad oh, mom's got this opportunity, so she should have talked to Mitch first and they should have come to an agreement first, because it involves him, right, and it's a big load for him. I mean, I hate to say it, dawson doesn't really get a say he's the kid, yeah, and I mean as much as you want to do this stuff for your kid when it comes to your job and being an adult and taking care of things you have, you know. But Mitch has mentioned he's a. No, he's the one that's going to be changing his life again for you. Gail, gail, gail. Yeah, I thought that was. Yeah, that's a good point. I hadn't thought about the Mitch thing. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:Almost like she was treating which you hate treating Dawson kind of as a peer in the decision making. She does that with Jen too. I also hate that. Yeah, she does that with Jen too. That's weird. That's more so in the next episode. So in the end, grams kicks Jen out. Okay, let's talk about that. That's so fucked up. Where's that bitch gonna go? She is 16 years old. She said find somewhere else to live. Hello, yeah, I know what. That was crazy and I was trying to think what was the thing that really pushed her over the edge. Was it the eulogy? Yeah, because she talked about how she didn't believe in God and she said you ridiculed everything that I believe in. Okay, yeah, I did hear her say that she's 16. Yeah, that's what they do. And she's grieving and she watched her friend die. Cut her a fucking break, right.
Speaker 1:I thought the same thing. Like, yes, you want your I mean her not believing in religion is fine, but like you want your children, your grandchildren, to be respectful and to be whatever Sure, of course, to be respectful and to be whatever Sure, of course. But there's also like an amount of parenting that has to go, where your personal feelings have to get out of the way for a second and you have to go. They're going through something. Maybe they're being mean, maybe they're pushing me away, maybe they're saying things that I don't want them to say, but that's because they need me more, right? Like that's the hardest thing for me.
Speaker 1:Like I saw something once that said the kids who act like they don't need love need love the most, or whatever. And that kind of reminds me of this thing with jen. Well, but kicking her out is not doing anything. Well, it's. It's putting her personal feelings and trying to take a stance on what she thinks Jen should be acting like, yeah, because now what?
Speaker 1:To me that's very irresponsible adulting, and the rest of Jen's family's in New York that's what I mean Like there's nowhere for her to go and you just put all her shit in the sunroom. Where's she going with that? She don't even have a car Right, and I was even thinking even as a fake out if you're just mad, but it was like serious, like she did not let her back in the house. Oh yeah, I just, I had it, I had a problem with that. Yeah, that was really bad. That was really bad. Oh, ok, so that's all I have, except for the very end when Andy goes back to Abby's room and she decides to steal the diary which I think was a good call. Probably she doesn't want her mom and everybody that's her just trying to not let them feel more upset, and there's like the ghost of Abby behind her for a split second and then she turns around and she's gone and then the episode ends. I was like whoa, and Abby's got that like almost evil, look on her face, kind of mischievous, yeah, and that's how it ended, I know, yikes.
Speaker 1:And then the next episode. Then we go to episode 20. So episode 20 is called Reunited, and here's the summary Dawson and Joey's romantic dinner together is spoiled by his parents' presence. Pacey suspects Andy of seeing someone else. So the last episode was super heavy and I liked that.
Speaker 1:This episode began began with something light and stupid, like their group pillow fight. Yeah, I was like, okay, that felt good, especially because I watched these back to back, and I was like, okay, cheesy pillow fight. But then I remembered what was going to happen. I was like, oh shit, fight. But then I remembered what was going to happen. I was like, oh shit, I remember what happens in this episode. Yeah, the cheesy pillow fight was cute and it's like before the intro music, you know where they're in Dawson's bedroom and I think it's Jack or someone's like. Oh, who would have imagined all of us right now hanging out? And they have a St Elmo's fire reference and a 90210 reference. Have a St Elmo's fire reference and a 90210 reference. Yeah, let's go to the peach pit or somebody. It was so cute. And then the pillow fight. So it was really fun.
Speaker 1:And and as they I think one of them said, wow, why, why are we like this now? Or who would have guessed we'd be like this? And in my head I'm going well, you're bonding over grief. Yeah, first of all, right, but I mean, obviously they're not gonna like, say that, say that scene. Yeah, but that was my thought. I was like there there's a lot of shit going down all over the place. Then you add the stuff with abby right, of course they're all gonna be close, right, but anyway, and then, and then we get into the episode.
Speaker 1:So, first thing, andy's new hairdo it's cute, it's really cute. Yeah, and the bangs I was like bangs, yeah, and they's wearing out her bangs, yeah, and they look terrible today. No, they don't. Yeah, they do. No, they're doing something. I'm getting my roots done tomorrow. So that's hey. Yeah, thank God, go girl, I have so much gray guys. Oh, my God, it's my whole head.
Speaker 1:Well, when I woke up on my birthday and my hair was all weird, you have like no gray. There was like two, two. They looked like well, there's more than two, but there were two like really bright silver ones like sticking up, because you know, the gray hair is a little more coarse. Oh, yeah, girl. So it's like all my hair laying down and then the gray is just like sticking up, shining in the morning sun. My husband walked in. I was like look at this. And he was like oh yeah, you're getting old. I'm like thanks, I got a whole head of gray, yeah. So you'll never know, I'll dye it until I'll be 100 years old, being like dye my fucking roots.
Speaker 1:I tried, I tried to let it come in. Guys, it does not look good. Do what you I will, just like Andy did with her hair and I thought it was cute. Well, I feel like, I feel like whatever that actress's name is, she's one of those. She has one of those faces that can look good. Many colors and many styles, agree, you know, not everybody can do that, but she is one.
Speaker 1:I will say she looked older. You think I thought she looked a little older and it could have been the cut more than the color, but just like the bangs, it just maybe looked a little more sophisticated. I'm used to her having that blonde with the headband. I mean, she is like 27 or something, right? Yeah, I don't know that she even looked 27, but she looked older than like the Andy from the episode before, right, and it was funny because immediately Pacey's got like a look and she's like what he's like no, no, I like it, she's like no. I already saw your face, you know, and so, but that is funny when you do something different to your hair.
Speaker 1:I remember with my bangs, oh girl. So I dropped my daughter off for something and had no bangs, went and got them cut, went to pick her up and she yelled like across all the kids mom, why do you have bangs? You know, it was just really funny. And then everyone's staring at me and then I'm like, okay, literally I've had these for an hour still getting used to them, and now everyone is staring at me. I don't know how to feel, you know. So it it, I understand. I liked that whole part.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate Andy Pacey's like a stance because I have, I do drastic changes to my hair. I mean, my husband and I have been together 22 years and he has seen every color, every cut shade. I've shaved my head, I've cut it off, I've, I've, I do all kinds of, I've had horrible, disaster haircuts, literally. And this man is smart because I have no idea how the fuck he likes my hair. He don't tell me. He says this I like your hair.
Speaker 1:Whatever doesn't make you cry, I don't care what you do to it, as long as you're not crying about it. Yeah, I mean, that's a bummer for you to be crying. So I get that Literally because it's my hair, it's my head. It doesn't matter what he likes on my head, it's my shit. Agree, so like. But I appreciate that because I have heard husbands like I had a friend who she had long hair and she hated it. And she's like my husband just said I, he doesn't like short hair. I'm like, well, he doesn't have to tend to it constantly, right, but she has never cut her hair short and she wants it short. Wow, patriarchy, everyone, patriarchy. Anyway, I don't. I don't know that my husband cares one way or another either, because same thing, maybe not as many, but like, I've had super blonde hair, I've had highlights.
Speaker 1:You're not a big drastic hair change, though Like I feel like yours. I'll have to show you a picture of when I was like blonde, blonde, I've seen it. Yeah, it was cute, it was still very similar, though I looked similar. Yeah, you don't look very different, it's not very drastic and that's like a me thing. You know what I mean, right, but that's what you want. That's what I want, correct, and you don't want to have to like tend to it Like. You don't want to have to go get your roots done and get trends and like all that. That's why you're growing your bangs out, right, yeah, I'm tired of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I also just like was looking at pictures of myself and I just didn't look like myself. Oh, that's how I felt when I let my my great. I was just like that doesn't really look like me. And then, after a whole season of like I was in a show, so there were a bunch of pictures of me from that, and then, like the holidays holiday season I was like I just don't like how I look. Yeah, I don't even think I look bad, I just don't like it. I get it. So I'm just going to they're done. Yeah, I've tried that, gone, but anyway, so Andy's here.
Speaker 1:Okay, I wrote this down, but now I don't know what I meant. Oops, maybe you know I said the spontaneity talk. Is that Joey and Dawson? I don't know, maybe we'll loop back. Oh, yeah, yeah, because she was saying they're boring and they've known each other for so long. And then he like made that reservation for their one month anniversary. I know, I love that At the fancy French restaurant. Okay, first of all, that's adorable, cause you remember celebrating month anniversaries. Our children do it, I know Well, I mean, they've been dating for a while now, but they did it after like one, two, three months Cause I remember doing that and now, like I mean, I don't even know how many months old my relationship is.
Speaker 1:I have to sometimes count on our anniversary because I regret this. We got married in 2011. So it's a long year. Oh yeah, so I'm like 14, 15, 13? Which year is it? And y'all are pretty good at math, but it takes me a minute to figure it out. I know it's funny, I was saying the wrong year. We were married for a while, oh, really For a while. And then Troy was like no, dani, we were married in 2005, because we moved in together two years prior to that. So I just think about okay, well, not a full two years before that, but around there, we've been together for two years before that. So I always just would count that and your life was kind of merged at that point. That's not right and I'm like, oh whoops. But it's helpful because my sister-in-law, troy's older sister. We got married the same year. We got married in April, they got married in June or July. So I'm like, oh well, if I remember how many years they've been married, if I can remember this other couple's anniversary, then surely I can remember mine.
Speaker 1:We keep saying we need to do like an anniversary trip together because her and Troy are very similar and me and her husband are very similar, like they're both like introverted and Chris and I are very like extroverted, outgoing, so like we're like we need to go on trips together, so like when Troy and Melinda have hit their end of the day, they're done. And Chris and I were like let's keep going, him and I can go off and go hang out and they can go be alone, they can go just sit by themselves, which they'll love, which you know you can't like when you're by yourself, like if you just go on a trip by. You know, I don't know, because troy and I never gotten to go on a trip by ourselves. But right, I I don't know if I've told you about, like, how brant just loves to sit in hotel lobbies by himself. Yeah, did I tell you? I just see troy doing that. Knowing him, I mean it.
Speaker 1:At first it surprised me because I'm like you want to sit in a public but he wants to people watch, or what? No, no, definitely not. He just wants to, like read a newspaper or a book in a nice like lobby, all right and not be bothered. Okay, and I'm like it feels like anytime we're at a hotel, that is an easy dream to make come true for you. Maybe that's because that's a complete opposite of y'all's regular life, I think so. There's no quiet in reading papers, yeah, and I think it's even a hotel room which isn't yours, right, so you don't have to worry about the same things that you worry about at home. It's small and boxy and whatever. Well, and you don't have to tend to it. Exactly, yeah, so he can be in like a nice open space, he can just be there and just be. Yeah, I'm sure that's it. I get it.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that's the allure, but, okay, so now we've got, because Jen was kicked out last episode, so she's moved in, of course, with Dawson and Gail. Her and Gail are buddy-buddy. I hate that. So then Gail says you know you should call her Talking about grams, and I'm like, doesn't she live next door? Live right next door? She lives right next door. Hello, like, wave to her out the window, go talk to her. Well, also, like you don't need to, but if that's your advice, I know, wouldn't you just literally walk over there and talk to her? I'm so confused. But yeah, so she's there and so her and Gail are bonding the whole episode.
Speaker 1:I couldn't tell if they were at the when they were at the French restaurant. If Jen was drinking wine, tell if they were at the when they were at the French restaurant. If Jen was drinking wine. No, she had water and then she had a Coke Okay, all right, but the so okay, the French restaurant.
Speaker 1:Even as Dawson and Joey are walking there, I was like looking around in the background, I'm like, all right for a small town, everywhere is always popping off. Like everywhere is popping off. Every place they go to is popping off. They walk in that French restaurant, everybody there popping off. Every place they go to is popping off. They walk in that French restaurant, everybody there. There's a band, yeah, there's a booked up table. Like I'm like, seriously, where are all these people coming from? They always talk about how Cape side is so small and every time, like the speakeasy and the episodes when they go to a random speakeasy that they've never heard of and it's like and it's busy. Yeah, I know You're, you're so right.
Speaker 1:And so there's the little mix up where Dawson had made this reservation for their one month anniversary, but apparently his dad also made a reservation that night for him and the teacher lady, and so by the time Dawson and Joey get there, his dad has pretty much taken his reservation, not realizing. So then they all sit together and Dawson doesn't like this film teacher because of what she said about his film, and actually confronts her on it at the table and it's so uncomfortable, and I'm like, and even Joey's like, let's talk, dawson. And she's like, hey, dude. But then Joey rams into her too. But then Joey makes it worse, I know, but she's like, you know, you're kind of ruining our vibe. And I wanted to be like why are you there? Why are you even there? Go get a burger and fries somewhere. That would be better than this situation. Why are you trying to figure this out? And then, yeah. So then Joey ends up being mean to Nicole, but it's because she's got Okay.
Speaker 1:So then, on top of everything, gail and Jen walk in Because they're making dinner at home and it burns, or whatever, because they're making dinner at home and it burns, or whatever. So they decide like, like, if I burned dinner which I have done I would order a pizza, yeah, or I'd be like we're going to Texas Roadhouse or I'm going to Taco Bell, they get decked out to go to the French restaurant, like that's what they decide to do when their dinner burns. I'm like Gail, like that's just weird. Like come on, girl, that's just living in my house, teenage girl, let's go to a fancy French dinner. Like it was weird, I don't know. And so they walk in and I think it's Dawson or Joey, I think it's Dawson that says oh, when did this turn into a French farce? Yeah, which I love. Yeah, that's funny, I loved.
Speaker 1:So now they're at a different table but pretty soon they discover mitch and his date are there. Dawson and joey are there. So then joey and jen come up with this sort of plan that they reference to get them together. They kind of call parent trap at the end, which I was thinking at the time to try to get them sort of together mitch and gail, mitch and gail, yeah. And so it involves joey kind of being rude, yeah, to watch his date. And then they like ordered wine. I'm like why'd they let these teenage girls order wine for a table? Remember, the waiter's like the wine you requested. And I'm like why are you letting these teenage girls order wine? I know that was weird. And so eventually the date gets mad. I don't think she'd leave leaves, but she leaves the the table and then it opens it up for Gail and Mitch to kind of have a moment. Well, they slow dance. They slow dance Because they played their song.
Speaker 1:They got the band to play their song. Do you and Brian have a song? Yes, see, I don't have one. First Day of my Life by Bright Eyes oh, that's cute. Yeah, we don't have one. We did dance to that one at our wedding and then we had someone sing live when we were like walking down the aisle uh, longer by dan fogelberg how's that? Longer than there have been stars up in the heavens. It's like a 1970s folk song. I'll play it for you. And so someone played the guitar and sang that for us. So that's kind of our song.
Speaker 1:We don't really have a song, but I remember when, when I watched greatest showman, when it came out and Michelle Williams sings tightrope, every military spouse in the world was like that's our life, like every lyric of that song is totally our life and I can. I remember just being like listening to the word, you know, like seeing the movie and be like and then getting the soundtrack and being like listening to the word, you know, like seeing the movie, and be like, oh, and then getting the soundtrack and being like, oh, it's our life. Like every time I hear that song, it's like, oh, yeah, uh-huh, that's it. But we don't really have a song. I don't mean that's your song, tightrope, it's not, it's not, no, it's. I mean it is, it is, but, like she says, it's an adventure and it comes with a, yeah, breathtaking view. Yeah, but I don't know, we don't really have one. I guess we don't really need one. We're gonna find one.
Speaker 1:Well, the funny thing was so troy and I got married in vegas. Our families were there military life, you do things different. We were going to have a big, giant wedding reception party a few months later because he had some what he had training he had to do without me. So the plan was get married. We got married and a honeymoon in like four days in Vegas, oh, wow. And then we went back to our base and moved. We were like in a transition move, which means your shit goes into storage, he goes to where he had to go in Georgia. I actually moved in temporarily with my parents, but would you guys like to know why we never had our giant wedding reception, because it was scheduled the weekend hurricane Katrina I was about to say I bet it's hurricane Katrina. So all our stuff was in storage there. It was a mess. It's a whole long story.
Speaker 1:So we never had a first dance. We never had like all that stuff. And we were like when that happened, it was sad and we're like, well, we'll do it for like an anniversary. But now we're like, why are we going to spend all that money when you could just go do so? We were like because we just hit our 20th anniversary. And so now we're like, why would we have this big party? Let's go on Like, let's go do something. I mean, yeah, that makes sense, though, and I don't know like you're still celebrating, just in a different way. So we were going to dance to at last, but ironically, that was my sister-in-law. We went to her wedding like a couple months later and that was her song and we were like, well, we can't use that now. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. We're like oh, we'll have to think of a different one, although now if you did it, it would make sense, right? Because at last you're getting the dance.
Speaker 1:I know 20 years later, but I do love a good slow dance. Yeah, me too. We talked about that. The last one I do. I do love a good flurry.
Speaker 1:I mean the stuff with Mitch and Gail is difficult. It's sad. It's sad. It's sad because you can feel the whatever. And then you've got Jen sort of nudging Gail the whole time, which, first of all, jen's like 16, maybe 17 at this point, being like you got to get reunited, you got to do this and that. And like you got to get reunited, you got to do this and that. And I mean the same thing happened in Clueless, which we talked about on our regular episode, when they're trying to match, make the older people Right, and I get the inclination to want to do that, to see that opportunity. But it also makes you kind of like it's not that simple. It's not. I mean, divorce is never simple, even if it seems to be, it's not. And marriage isn't simple and relationships as adults is not simple, like and I don't think anybody even if there is some horrible thing that happens like an affair, it still doesn't erase everything else, of course, just like if there's one big wonderful thing happens, it doesn't erase all the bad course. So it's tricky, it's tricky, um.
Speaker 1:And then I wrote nicole in the bathroom, mitch's date, her and gail, oh yeah, they really made her unlikable. Oh yeah, episode yeah, which she was a little like chip on her shoulder kind of unlikable, but like they really went in for it, like she's mean to dawson, she's mean to joey, she's nasty to gail, like because gail says something like oh, I think I'm gonna go. And she's like, oh, I bet I think mitch would like that if you left, or something. And then gail's like, bitch, I'm staying, I know. She's like, well, fine, then yeah, so I mean, while I support the fact that mitch is like out there dating or whatever they're going through, it's like man, I don't really. I really don't like this girl. So they did a good job kind of setting that up, All right, so that's kind of all of that stuff.
Speaker 1:But then we've got this whole other storyline which kind of kicks off with Andy's hair, where she's not. Just now in the last episode she saw a glimpse of Abby at the end. Now she's seen her brother, tim. So here's my question for you, because I remembered this whole plot line, but I know you haven't watched this in a while. Did you remember that was her brother, the whole episode? I don't know if I remembered, but I knew it had to be him. Okay, I was like that's got to be Tim, because it was too weird to be a real person, right, and the fact that she had seen the ghost of Abby or a vision of Abby, it was something. I was like it must be the ghost of someone, right, and it's probably him. And then they try to throw you off a little because she calls him Brown. Yeah, and it's later in the episode that Jack is like well, that's what she called Tim, or that was her name for Tim. But I figured it out. And then I like how they revealed it though, where Pacey sees the photo album, because Pacey's not seeing him, but as an audience member, we're seeing him. So when Pacey sees the photos with Tim in them as an audience, we're like, oh, that's who that is. Yeah, confirmation to us. I almost so.
Speaker 1:Something that I feel like I don't really like with the whole Andy storyline is I feel like they started off with her having, like you know, issues with depression and anxiety, but then they like elevated it to this she's hallucinating now and like to where it's like this super extreme. Not that people don't do that, sure, I mean, that is a valid like mental health thing but I feel like they almost made it more outlandish thing, but I feel like they almost made it more outlandish. I feel like it would have been more. It probably would have felt more real to teens if they would have kept it without that. I think so. Not that they had to, but I felt like it was a good gate, like talking about her having to take Xanax and like you know, xanax, xanax and deal with her mom and then now, but now she's like hallucinating and like it's very extreme and then they're not as relatable.
Speaker 1:And and also I was confused about the diagnosis that jack said and also, um, her therapist, I'm like I I wanted to go back and like research because I'm like I don't think you hallucinate people with complicated grief or whatever they said. Yeah, I forget what she called it and I'm like I just don't feel like that is a thing. Yeah, I mean, of course everyone processes differently. It does make sense that if you're struggling with current grief, it's going to drudge up old grief. Of course that part makes sense. Yeah, that you're going to feel, but not necessarily hallucinating people and having conversations, not just thinking you see them, but literally interacting with them. I mean, that's pretty severe, Right, like I don't know. I wanted to look all that up. I just didn't have severe Right, like I don't know, I wanted to look all that up, I just didn't have time, but I just, I just was like I don't like they. Also because they also made it seem like they shoved in a bunch of mental health issues in one. I agree with that and I don't like that either, right, not that you can't have more than one at once, of course you can, of course, but I felt like it was just they were trying.
Speaker 1:And then when she's in the bathroom, she locks herself in the bathroom and Jack and Pacey are outside and she's talking to him. It almost made it seem like mental health stuff is a battle of wills that you can choose. They're like Andy, you have to choose, you have to choose, and I'm like, yeah, that a lot. And I, I didn't like that, cause I'm like you, you really can't, right, and sometimes you feel like there is no choice and someone's got to break down that bathroom door to get you out of there, right, and that goes with it, and it also makes it seem like you're weak if you don't pick right. I hadn't thought of that. Yeah Well, I have a lot of layers with this, but I mean so, but I think but now that you're saying it, I think you're right.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was just annoying me in general how they kept saying you have to choose, and then the hallucination of Tim's like you need to choose, and then it just went away, and then I Well, I think he means like dying, like I think he they never said that the hallucination is trying to convince her that that's what she should do, because he was saying I can help you, I can make you feel better, okay, and I think that's what they were alluding to. They never say that, but but, but that's what I'm saying. That's why it hit a hot button for me, because it's like, oh well, you make it just seem like be strong and make the right choice and choose to get better Right, which it's not that cut and dry no, it's not. I did like the level of support and, I guess, non-judgment eventually that we get to with Pacey and Jack. I mean Pacey. Well, pacey's a teenage boy and he's suspicious that it's. He doesn't realize it's a hallucination, of course. Why would he think that? He thinks she likes someone else, she's talking to someone else, she doesn't like me, of course, makes it kind of about himself until he realizes what the truth is and then at that point I feel like him and Jack together do a good job of just they just want to help her. Now, whether they're saying the right things or whatever, that's another story. But I just thought to have that really invested support, but again, not to like go too, too dark on this. I mean, and you know you can have those people invested in you like that, and it's still it's not going to fix anything and you don't and you not choosing those people in that state isn't a comment on them or you or whatever. It is just what it is.
Speaker 1:With the mental health situation, yeah, the whole choosing thing really bugged me. Yeah, because I think too that was that was something as a kid that was very hard for me being like why didn't he just choose to? Not right? Well, mental health is very, it's very layered, it's very and since I myself have been a person who's battled with, you know, depression and anxiety and all the things you don't feel like you have any fucking choices and it doesn't matter what somebody's oh I'm here. Well, okay, great, you're not in here in my brain, in my body, living my life. So you do feel like sometimes there's nothing like this, is it? This is all. So I just I had a really hard time with that. I was like I don't like the way they presented it. Yeah, I agree with you, I don't, I don't, I agree with you.
Speaker 1:And so then, as we get toward the end of the episode, when she's locked in the bathroom, pacey says you need to call your dad. Yeah, like the last things that happens in the episode. So what do you think about that? I mean, obviously, that's probably going to show up in the next episode. They have to call him because they need an adult. They've needed an adult for a long time and that is their adult. He at least has the money, yeah, and that's what. That's what Jack, and it is his responsibility, correct, and I think that's that's that's what one of them decided on. One of them said was like he has the means to get her the help she needs. Yeah, I totally agree. So hopefully she gets the help. Oh, there's a whole other, you'll see, we'll get to, we'll get to.
Speaker 1:There's two episodes left in this season. So you know a season finales and the lead up to the season finales always I feel like we're already ramped. Like lead up to the season finale is always I feel like we're already ramped like I know ramping up, and then the grief part of Abby, and then this now with Andy, yeah, and then I'm remembering stuff that happens in the third season too and I'm like, oh yeah, that's so good, okay, anyway, well so, but the funny thing was at the end, where Dawson and Joey are on in the creek and they're in their little boat making out, talking about sex, and it just made me giggle creek in their little boat, making out, talking about sex, and it just made me giggle Like in their little boat, yeah, and he's like the night is young and she's like but so are we. Which is valid? Which is true? Which is true? It was cute though, it was just so funny. I'm like how do you so? Then this is me watching the scene. It's like how do you make out in a little rowboat without falling over? You have to be real careful, but they always seem very balanced. I would fall over, same, I would capsize. I mean, we know my luck.
Speaker 1:Actually, when I was in high school I didn't make out in a rowboat but we went canoeing, oh God went. We went canoeing, oh God, oh God. We went canoeing and we had an uneven amount of people and I was one of the shortest, so they were like just put Danny in the middle. Well, guys, every canoe I got in flipped over swear, and so finally they were like who's going to take Danny? Like I capped two canoes and they're like somebody's gotta take her. Somebody, step up, take one for the team. And you know I'm not exactly a great outdoors person. And listen, we were canoeing. I don't know where we were at somewhere in mississippi or louisiana, and there are snakes and there are gators and all kinds of stuff. You got to worry about Dang, yeah, anyway, and me, apparently you don't want me in your canoe, guys.
Speaker 1:And then it was funny because the one I finally got in, we like go, you know, you go on like a little course or whatever, and we've we get back and you know you get out of the canoe and walk it in. And I was so excited like everybody else had gotten there, and they were like out of the thing and I was like, look guys, we didn't tip, so I get out. And at the last second it tipped over. Oh god, it's like, yes, you did. They're like, god, damn it, danny. Yeah, this easy. Oh my god, that's so great, let me get out. And it tipped them over. I know, that is great, all right, all right, so don't get in a rowboat with Danny. I mean, I'm not going in it ever again, don't worry, she won't be in one, it'll be okay. Nope, and yeah, stay tuned, guys. See you tomorrow Finale. And then we don't know what we're going to do. We We'll see. I mean, I like the idea of season three, but then we talked about taking a little breather to watch Twin Peaks. I know I like that idea, but maybe I feel like now we're so committed to Dawson, I know we're like in it and it's not like the season ends in a storyline. I know it's the opposite.
Speaker 1:And I also watched a couple more episodes of Don't Call the B in Apartment 23. Oh my god, oh my god, I have to watch. Oh girl, they're like 20 minutes. I have to watch. And he dawson plays like well, james vanderbeek plays james vanderbeek and he's such a dick and he goes on dancing with the stars. This episode. He's about to go on dancing with the stars stop. And he's such a jerk like he is such a jerk and I love it. It's so good. Okay, I have to watch. It's so good. That's all right. Everyone all right. Well, thanks for listening to our normal episodes, yeah, and our Dawson's Creek episodes, and we'll see you next time. Yeah, all right, bye.
