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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek, S2 E17 & E18: Those Last Two Minutes Though
We're cruising through our rewatch of Dawson's Creek, Season 2, on our Nostalgic or Problematic series, discussing episodes 17 and 18 which feature new teachers, wedding disasters, and unexpected tragedies.
This is the part of the series where the final two minutes of each episode are critical to the plot, so don't zone out at the end.
We're rewatching Dawson's Creek, Season 2 on Hulu.
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Hello listeners and welcome back to our Nostalgic or Problematic series where we are rewatching Dawson's Creek and we are currently on season two. We are just breezing on through now that we're doing two episodes. We are I actually thought about that, I know, because for today we have episodes 17 and 18, and aren't there only 22? Mm-hmm. Yeah, so we're close to the end. We're getting there, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're close to the end. We're getting there, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So before we start talking about the episode, I have to tell you two things. Number one I binge watched Michelle Williams new show dying for sex. Okay, there's only like six episodes. Oh, my God, it's so good. Wow it. Okay. I'm going to tell you this is not one that your kids can see at all, not even a minute. No, okay, I mean, you're teens, whatever, but like Tegan does not need to see you watching this. Okay, in my house I have like this is an okay for the living room TV and then this is one that, or it's one that I have to watch on my laptop. That's definitely now. It's really.
Speaker 1:It's a great show. Michelle Williams is a rock star. I love her so much. The girl playing the friend is amazing. It's very entertaining. There's a lot of sex stuff in it, but it's also very emotional because she's dying of cancer. She has this whole sexual awakening journey. As she finds out she has cancer for the second time and it's a fatal diagnosis. So while there is a lot of great fun things happening, there's a lot of sad stuff too. So in the end I mean cause you know it's going to happen.
Speaker 1:It's a true story. It's based on a real life story about a lady and her best friend started her and her best friend started making a podcast recording about it. I just started listening to. I wanted to watch the show first and then listen to the podcast. How many episodes is the podcast, do you know? I don't know, but the the show itself is like six or seven episodes and that's it and that's it Okay, and then it's done Okay. So that's why it was kind of like I would watch it, like in spurts. You have to watch it and I. The one thing I really really like about this show is that it normalizes a lot of sexual things for women that I feel like has not had a voice in popular media and I don't want to say too much because I want you all to watch it. Yeah, and then we can talk about it. All right, that's the first thing. Second thing, did you ever watch the show from 2013 that James Van Der Beek was in? It was a short-lived show called Don't Trust the Bitch in Apartment 23. I don't think I ever watched it. Okay, I watched their short, less than 30-minute episodes. It's like Schitt's Creek, like short, hilarious. You have got to watch that too. Okay, oh, I watched two episodes of it last night because I was not able to sleep. Girl, james Van Der Beek, I changed my mind. I love you.
Speaker 1:In that show, he basically just makes fun of himself as Dawson, because he's playing James Van Der Beek in the show. He's like best friends with one of these girls, and he just makes fun of himself, and there's all these funny Dawson jokes. Oh my God. He's like in this coffee shop doing something, and this girl there's this girl. No matter where he is, this is girl always yelling stuff at him, and she's like you're both everywhere and nowhere, dawson. Oh, I love that, though, and it's like he's trying to like teach this class at a university. It's like take me with you, dawson, like it's. It's like take me with you, dawson. It's just so funny. You got to see it. I don't want to tell you too much. Okay, all right, that sounds fun. Again, it's one Depends which mood I'm in. Yeah, it's funny, that one's just funny. The other one is sexual funny and it's more dark, dark, okay, All right. But anyway, everybody rewind back to 2013. James vanderbeek being james vanderbeek, I love it. Okay, yeah, anyway, that's it. Now we can check them out. I'm gonna check them out.
Speaker 1:Season 2, episode 17, is called psychic friends. Summary is dawson's confidence is shaken when his new film class teacher speaks her mind and tells him the painful truth about his new movie. Oh, yeah, yeah, which we'll get to. And I said I don't have a whole lot of notes, guys, uh, but katie does. So that's good. And I said I don't have a whole lot of notes, guys, but Katie does, so that's good. No, that's good, because I don't have a lot.
Speaker 1:The opening scene, the opening is always just so good and I feel like anymore it's always in Dawson's bedroom. It's always like that though the whole season. Like every time, like in season one, I feel like he spent a lot of time there. I just feel like every time now it is, and maybe that's just the way it is, and it's pretty clear quickly. He's having a nightmare. Yes, because Joey is saying how essentially all the things he wants for his life, like a Hollywood career and Joey to be his girlfriend, and all these things are happening, but with Jack, and Jack made a movie, jack's the best director ever, right, and I talk about this later too.
Speaker 1:But they keep showing this sort of end scene of Dawson's film and it's someone in, not the canoe, the rowboat, but it was giving such notebook vibes. I actually thought, well, so for a split second I'm like, are they watching the notebook? And I'm like, oh no, this is too early. So notebook was 2004, yeah, so it hadn't even been shot yet, right, but I was just like that's so weird. That that's someone in a rowboat in like a little creek makes me automatically think of no, well, I mean, the notebook took place in the east coast too, right, yeah, so like I guess it's an east coast thing to ride around in your rowboat, in your little rowboat, not canoe, though I did like the line where joey in the nightmare in the scene yeah, it's fake she says to Dawson Dawson, don't worry about it, you're not my type, you never were I know you never were I was like whoa. And then it went into the awesome opening song I hate it.
Speaker 1:And then that was over, and so we've got this new film teacher. Who can we just talk about this premise? Oh, I know she's there, right, because she's on sabbatical from TriStar to write a movie. So therefore she's teaching a high school film class, I know, and of course she's like super good looking, of course, and young, like not as young as the kids, but you know, you can tell she's young. And then she's she's like hip, very hip, very sophisticated, because she's from hollywood, but she's right now teaching this film class while she's on sabbatical. Yeah, so like that's just funny anyway, I know, sort of like suspend, disbelief that for that. But then we get another new teacher.
Speaker 1:You guys, dawson's dad is a teacher. I wrote hello, hey, he got a job. I forgot. I forgot because then in later seasons he becomes a coach too, and it took me a second to realize because they were like oh, he's an English teacher, and it took me a second to realize I think he replaced the one they fired, right, yeah, which? Who? When did when did he get a teaching degree? I don't know who cares, who cares, who cares? He's a new English teacher in town. He looked so cute in that little sweater and his little tie. I was like there it is. He was adorable, absolutely adorable.
Speaker 1:So then we get this sort of weird awkward scene in the lunchroom with Joey and Jack, and Joey's just like naming every guy in the lunch line, so she's like loser. You know, jock, he's a leo, leo, stupid, as in leo dicaprio, everybody, all right, I forgot about that. And what was the other name? They used another name. She said frank, as in frankenstein, which I was like what so stupid? Like are you 97? I don't know? Or Joey, so, but it was funny, but it was weird because it was the writers were trying to establish that Joey and Jack can talk about guys now together. But even Jack says this is very weird, joey, yeah, like don't force this, right. And also she's gone. She lives in a small town. She's gone to school with all these kids her entire life, right? You don't know actually who they are or if they're a doc or if they're. That was funny.
Speaker 1:And then, oh, andy mcgeek. The scene where pacey says something to her about how. No wonder they called you andy mcgeek. I had never heard that. I don't think he said it before. I thought that was really funny, assholes.
Speaker 1:You know, I had a whole rhyme made up about me. No, I have never talked about this here. I thought you were the poet. They were a poet, they rhymed. Your name, katie, got serious all of a sudden. She went I thought you were a poet. I cost my arms. I mean, I was in elementary school.
Speaker 1:Whenever you're pre-puberty and your body gets all really weird and I was a chubby kid, yeah, they made up a rhyme that said Danny, danny, with the big fat fanny, what, yeah, I would have been like, no, if that was me now, I'd be like thank you, yeah, but not when you're that age. No, not at that age. You don't want anything pointed out at that age. No, especially, see, see, this. The rest of my life makes complete sense, doesn't it? I trying to get rid of that fanny.
Speaker 1:From that moment on, body dysmorphia clicked on right there. Isn't that funny how I still remember that? Yeah, still, I was probably in third. I mean, it makes sense that you would remember that. That's so mean, god, kids are so mean. Well, that's worse than my geek, my geek. But that's what I thought about. That's what. Yeah, that took you back to thatek. But that's what I thought about, that's what you yeah, that took you back to that.
Speaker 1:Okay, I had another rhyme made up about me in high school Uh-oh, not, I'm not, you're not going to share, you have to. Our listeners need to know. I don't think, I don't know it's, I'll tell you ahead and say it, whatever, because this didn't happen, because it's not true. So I just All right. When I was in high school, I never had chicken pox as a kid. I got it when I was a senior in high school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was really bad, but it came along at a great time, because I went to a party one weekend and I hooked up, made out I did not have sex with this boy. Okay, let me, let me. Let me clarify. This was like teenage hookups, which is just making out at this party, not realizing that him and his girlfriend had just like recently broke up because it was at this friend group's house that I was not really a part of. Okay, do you know what I mean? Yeah, and they all dated each other all the time. Does that make sense? Do you remember this? Yeah, and they all dated each other all the time. Does that make sense? Do you remember this? So you never really knew who was doing what.
Speaker 1:Well, anyway, so they wait, maybe we did do more than make out actually now that I think like wait, I don't know, I don't know, it doesn't matter. So that happened and she saw us together and it was this big ordeal, like it was her house. I know it was a shit, it was a shitty circumstance, so the whole whole school. So he actually made up some bullshit and I wasn't at school cause I had chicken pox. Like I literally woke up. That was on like a Friday. I woke up Sunday morning covered in chicken pox. So I was out of school for like a week.
Speaker 1:Well, I get a phone call from a friend of mine. They're like good thing you're not at school because this person is spreading all kinds of stuff about you. And in fact, they made up a song about you my God, I'm ready. And the guy's name was Jeremy and they. The rhyme was I can't believe I'm about to say this Jeremy, jeremy lives in a box, got his dick sucked by Danny and now has the chicken pox.
Speaker 1:I did not do that, by the way, that did not happen. So chicken pox? I did not do that, by the way, that did not happen. So did he have the chicken pox too? No, because most kids, you know right, I was just saying that funny, if you were both out with I completely forgot about that until right now. Now McGeek did it.
Speaker 1:I said she said boom, by the way, and that also stuck with me because that did not happen, right, and I love how you tell that whole thing. I was like, oh, did he have chicken pox? Like that's my question, that's my follow-up question. And you're like no, that's not the point. Like hello, the point is boys are jerks, yeah, and obviously the other thing too is I got completely blamed for that whole entire incident, yeah, and was was like so shunned and all this stuff, meanwhile him, on the other hand, nothing, yeah, when he's the one that would have known the details of that relationship and how it's more sensitive.
Speaker 1:So be at her house being disrespectful to her house. But it's all my fault, of course, because you know why, guys, I know why. Why Patriarchy, yeah, to her house. But it's all my fault, of course, because you know why, guys, I know why. Why hierarchy, yeah, yep, I don't think we can blame capitalism on that one, but patriarchy, for sure that's another one. I'm gonna start saying that too. Oh, but anyway, that's another one. Anyway, whatever, that was so long ago, but I still remember that and that is wild. No idea what all those people are doing with their lives. I'm sure they're doing great things, but hopefully they turned into better people.
Speaker 1:Teenage kids I, I mean to be fair, I probably should have been a little more aware of myself. Hello, that doesn't mean they should like say all that. But yes, I know what you mean. Well, nobody deserves rhymes made up about them. So look at that. I had two songs made up about me and we didn't know until I literally said McGeek, and then all this stuff just came flooding out. I can't believe I had not. I can't believe. Please, keep going, keep going. Okay, here we go. Okay, captain Skippy, here we go. It was so cute, adorable I couldn't like. My phone was charging behind me when I was watching it.
Speaker 1:I was laying in my bed watching this one and writing in my notebook, but I wanted to get a picture of Joshua Jackson in that cop outfit to send to Carlos. Oh, I know, and I mean it was a fake cop. So the premise is that there it was like a fall festival or something. I guess it was very. It looked freezing cold. It looked cold. I loved the fashion, the different sweaters and the hats.
Speaker 1:This episode were really really good, except Pacey had on ginormous jeans. Again, he did you notice? Yes, I think they got his sizing wrong or something. They're like well, just wear this. So he.
Speaker 1:So in this Andy talks Pacey into kind of being this police dog puppet mascot named Skippy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was a puppet. So I thought he was going to be in the costume, but then when they showed it it was just like a puppet on his hand and, of course, the kids were like being jerks to him about it. It was so funny, it was really cute. It was really cute. It was so cute. And Joey had a line where she's talking to Jack because she has art displayed at the festival and Jack's helping her like get it organized and get people to look at it, and Joey says something like how she doesn't think she'll be kissed in the millennium happens. I love that line, I know. And then, of course, you know in the episode, she, yeah, but anyway, we'll get to that, we'll get there. So and I also loved this really good line.
Speaker 1:So there's, without getting too much into it, because I know some beliefs you know people's belief systems vary on this, but the fortune teller oh yeah, the stereotypical fortune teller and pacey's just not buying it right, and so he andy's like oh, but don't you want to? Like no, and don't you. And he says the power of suggestion is a powerful thing. That's true, and I was like wow, that is such a great point, but that's just psychology. That's psychology right. Right, yeah, but he's right, like the reason, at least the people who you know there are, I think. I believe there are people who have those types of powers, but there's also people who exploit it and don't. And so for those people who are don't genuinely have the power, it's it is more about psychology and body language and getting clues from people and that sort of thing, which is sort of what they portrayed in this episode, which is unfortunate, because I do know people who I mean we have had, we have several friends who have have, uh, abilities and things like tarot card readings too. I think it just kind of cheapens it for people who really take it seriously, exactly. So it's sad, but anyway, exactly wait.
Speaker 1:But joey did say something stupid say, and I don't remember where this was, but when they're talking remember, okay, we talked about the comparisons in the cafeteria, leo and frank. And jack asked her so is dawson a leo or is he a frank? And she's like dawson is definitely a leo. I was like no, he's not. Yeah, I thought that was weird too. I know it didn't even like go right, like that was just no, it didn't fit, it didn't fit. But then I wondered, like at the time, was james Van Der Beek getting put in categories with Leonardo DiCaprio, for example, hot people lists and stuff, probably like teen heartthrob or whatever? So maybe that was why, like, it was just kind of like a joke, I know, Like a writer's joke, I don't know, it was weird. I mean, james Van Der Beek, yes, awesome, no, absolutely. And I much prefer James Van Der Beek as a person nowadays to Leonardo DiCaprio. Oh God, that is a very low bar, correct, yes, right. So I would actually say, if we're talking about the actors, james Van Der Beek far superior, agreed, okay.
Speaker 1:So then Colin shows up. Who is cute, who's? Colin comes to look at Joey's art. Oh, I didn't even write, that was his name. That was his name, colin, and I did say he's cute. He is cute and so he says something. But where are all these like random cute people just dropping in all the time?
Speaker 1:So the promise of the fair was that it was at the college. Oh, that's right, and I really wasn't paying attention. But I mean, you're right, like these really attractive people of both sexes and all ages just pop into cake side all the time. He yeah, he was a college student, got it and so he was there and so he's there and, and you know, I always ask you questions what are your thoughts on this? So after he kind of walks away, jack's like oh, he was hitting on you to Joey. He's like you know, you should, he wouldn't take her picture. I don't think he had, I don't think he'd asked that yet, but he was kind of interested in her and Joey's like I'm just not in that space. I'm just not in that space.
Speaker 1:And then Jack said something about how she should really be saying yes to every opportunity. And that took me back because I read a book a number of years ago, shonda Rhimes's book. It's called the Year of yes and it's all about her journey on saying yes to a bunch of stuff within a year. And for her the journey made sense because she, despite being like a famous showrunner and all these things, was very guarded about new opportunities, new experiences etc. She was having some health issues, it's all these things. So she decided for a year, if I'm invited something, I'm gonna go. If I'm asked to work on a project, I'm gonna say yes, I'm a girl, okay.
Speaker 1:And I was like so after terrible, after I read that book, I was like yeah, no, I can't do that. Yeah, no, no, I already kind of do that. Anyway, I need to have the year of no, is what I mean? Hey, your next book, honestly, really seriously, but I need you to probably do it, or I guess, as I do it there. That's the point. Yeah, that's the point. Okay, you heard it here first listeners. So.
Speaker 1:But then when jack said like say yes to every opportunity, it kind of made me think of that book and just in general that concept thoughts on saying yes to every opportunity. It kind of made me think of that book and just in general that concept Thoughts on saying yes to every opportunity. When is it appropriate? Well, you know, I think about that, like I know parents that give their kids like a yes day. No, I don't do that because that's crazy. Do you know what I mean I do?
Speaker 1:Again, you have to have, like I said in the other episode, like I'm here for a good time, we're not here for a long time, right, I get it. You have to live and you have to enjoy stuff, but you do have to say no Sometimes. Sometimes no is the correct answer, even when it's something good, right? And I think, in the case of what Jack's trying to encourage Joey to do, and in the case of Shonda Rhimes, this book, in Shonda's case, she realized that her defaulting to no all the time was the problem, right? Oh, thank you, I dropped my notes. I mean, I think maybe just opening your mind a bit, right, maybe broaden your, maybe don't instinctively answer right away whether it's no or yes. Yeah, I like that. That's a good answer. Look at me living in the gray. Again, I love it. I love you, gray girl. Okay, speaking of that is a perfect segue.
Speaker 1:It is To Grams, to Grams and wit, which was so cute. Well, it was till it wasn't. I know I said adorable, omg. So Grams is at the fair. It looks like she's got like a quilt booth or something. She's selling quilts, I don't know, chip clips that were decorated clothespans and I'm like that's actually fun, super fun. And Jen's like what is this? What the hell is this? It's like an angel chip clip. But, to be fair, my mom used to go to like craft fairs all the time back in the 80s and that's the kind of bullshit that made money. Oh, big time. Yeah, you have something like that Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Wit knew grams before and is her like age. Her peer comes over and is basically kind of like hitting on her and jen now starts encouraging grams to kind of reciprocate or go spend some time with him, basically like live her life too. Yeah, yeah, and you can tell at first, grams is like really uncomfortable. I think she even says oh, she says I have it here, that part of my life is over, I know which is. Then I said well, I think that that's so sad because you're I always say if you're still breathing, your life's not done yet. You know, and we talked about that when I went on my tangent about soulmates.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I thought of that when, when we were watching this episode I don't think there's just one I was like man, I sound like such an asshole on that episode. I think that you, you know. I think there's just one. I was like man, I sound like such an asshole on that episode. No, you didn't. I think that you know. I think there's multiple chances for happiness with other people, whether that's a romantic partner or a friend or a business partner. I don't think there's just one. You get one shot, yeah, and when that person dies or something happens and that's what she's saying and honestly, like I'm not surprised she thinks that because in the church you are taught that, like you are, you have one person you're supposed to be with, kids you're supposed to have. And you know, yeah, yeah, I totally, totally agree. And I think too I don't know that even before that moment, maybe she hadn't even thought of it, maybe she hadn't even thought of it. Well, I mean, she was married to her husband for so long and you probably do feel like, well, that's all I know, because I remember her episode like they'd been together for like what? 40 years, something like that. Yeah, so she's probably like, well, it's just easier to be done. Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 1:So now back to Colinin, the guy who came and was talking to joey. I don't know if I remembered it from seeing it forever ago or I just saw the cracks immediately when he's talking about how beautiful she is. But like, right away, it's suspect because he's saying things like carol lombard, smile, right, I'm like it's like on clueless, yeah, right, where he with christian. Yeah, I know we're gonna do a clueless episode and they're kind of taking it as a compliment. But then you're like I think they're just stating it, yeah, because they can objectively look at you that way. But we'll get into that. I said I just have a note. Captain skippy can't stop laughing. Also, joshua jack Jackson in cop outfit Nice he talked about, but it was really good.
Speaker 1:Oh wait, I do have something else funny about the whole grams on the date situation. I wrote down why do people in shows eat dinner so late? Because he made it. He's like I'll meet you here at eight o'clock to like go to dinner. Yeah, at eight o'clock. I dinner, yeah, at eight o'clock. I know, I know. And they're old people. Yeah, I thought that was weird too. I mean, I'm not even that old and I ain't trying to eat dinner at eight o'clock. I wonder if they were trying to set it up as more of a date that you would go on a date at night. You don't go to date dinner at eight o'clock, I don't know. When you go out with your husband, y'all go eat dinner at eight, 3.30.
Speaker 1:I'm like I need to be in my PJs by 8 o'clock. Okay, full wine PJ. Listen, I'm telling you there is something to be said about hitting up dinner at 5 o'clock. Yeah, girl, that is a good time. You get a happy hour special. Ain't nobody there, you ain't waiting. And then, yeah, you get home and you have plenty of time in PJs and whatever else you need to be doing. I totally agree. I've noticed and I have to do something about this because I don't want to be this person, oh God. But I've noticed that I start. I've always done this. So maybe I've just noticed it recently, but I've always done it.
Speaker 1:When it starts to get dark, I do start to like panic and get grumpy and all the things. Because if it starts to get dark and I see a bunch of dishes and I see a bunch of laundry or we're still driving back from something, I shift, I am like irritable. I'm like no, it doesn't help that I wake up at like four in the morning I was going to say, yeah, you're ready to go to sleep. My body is like Katie's been up since 3.30. Yeah, it's eight o'clock. Your body's like we're done now, seriously.
Speaker 1:So my husband, he, he tends to be more of a night owl and he's changed his habits to adjust so that he can be up early and go to bed at a normal hour and stuff. But to him if there's dishes sitting there, he'll just be like, oh, I'll just watch, like sports center at 9.30 and wash them. And so then I'm sitting in here 8.15, puffing and puffing, doing all the dishes. He's like, oh, I'll get those and he probably will. But I'm like I can't relax and I am so tired and it's like a panic, anger, irritability.
Speaker 1:So the other night was my husband's birthday and he wanted everyone to swim with him, which we did, which was very lovely, all seven of us just hanging out out back. But because I had lessons, we didn't eat dinner till like 7.30. And it dinner because it's birthday dinner and I and he can make dinner. But it was his birthday. So I was like I will make dinner, yeah, so I didn't make it till I got home. We sit down at 7, 30, everyone's there. It's lovely, we eat, we do whatever, we do cake. Well, now it's like 8, 15, 8, 20 and I'm my brain is starting to panic because I'm like we still all have to go out to the pool, got all these here dishes and te hasn't done her homework, and it's his birthday, so I'm not leaving the dishes. Oh, I thought you meant like and it's his birthday, we get that over with.
Speaker 1:First thing, I am not having that hanging over my head all day. Check that box done. God. I thought you meant like that's coming. Hey, if it's dark at night, that's not coming. But if it's dark at night, that's not coming. But if it's dark in the morning, that's when you hit me. The darkness is key. It just has to be the right time of darkness, because I'll tell you that midday stuff, that's some bright light.
Speaker 1:When you're our age, I don't even know. No, no, y'all know what we're talking about too. Because listen, that's for you, young folks. We need some soft lighting, or zero Sight is not a sense that's needed. You can use all the other ones. See, people that don't listen to these episodes have missed out on this soulmates. They miss out on a song about chicken, pox and other bodily parts. Yes, and another song about you. So what ended up happening? So I mean not actively having to fight those feelings. Yeah, I'm like Katie, you are outside and literally your whole family is out here and everyone's happy and everyone's swimming, and like your kids are playing and your husband's happy, it doesn't matter that it's 830, 40. Finish up everything out here. Then, when everybody's done, get the kids to help you, do whatever you know. And it was fine.
Speaker 1:But I find, as I'm getting older and again I get up super early and my days are so I've been able to kind of put language around it recently. Like I'm so over, overstimulated all day, all day, that like I do hit a wall and you're over people, I'm over people, I can't do any more executive function that day because I've done so much. If I kind of tried to say that to him not his birthday, but the day after, I was like I think I get freaked out when it starts to get dark and when it starts to get late, because it feels still like such a long time to get to where I can relax. If I see all this stuff which I can try to fix, like I can do things earlier. If I'm there like and he did say understand, like, I see what you're saying, but I'm trying to not be that old lady at night. Well, it's hard when, like, cause, that's anxiety, that's a hundred percent anxiety symptom, as the lady, I mean, you're right, that's what it feels like. It really is horrible, it's miserable, it really is because, well, we won't go into the science of it but yeah, but you know, I mean it's hard to when part of it is just like how people are built and then some of it's things you can fix, right, right, so it's trying to figure out like OK, is this something I have to adjust for or that I need to, like, really look into changing Right, that's tricky. Are there things I can just fix so that the anxiety is less, yeah, or is it like no, I really just need to change my perspective.
Speaker 1:And the reason we started talking about this is because Grams was having dinner date at 8 pm. 8 pm, so, note to self, katie's birthday party is at 3 o'clock. Why Wouldn't it be better to have it at night? I said no. Troy said that yeah, which is weird, but then for him, because in his brain he's thinking how late are people going to be here, because in his brain he's thinking how late are people going to be here? He thinks they're going to be there at night. Anyway they will be. Well, they probably will, Because there are some people coming later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, we have a list of people coming a little bit later than three, because people are like three o'clock. Are you serious? No, but I mean that'd be okay. I was like I asked her what time, I don't know. No, I know why. We did it, because Anastasia opens this weekend. Oh, yeah, that's why, and when you set the date, we weren't sure which of our friends were going to be in it and they would have had a six o'clock call. True, well, and some still have to go, and I'm happy that it's happening. Hey, and listen, we're having some wine and snacks and it's going to be a good time.
Speaker 1:Birthday cake, which is the best. Oh, that sounds good, I know. Have you had one? Not from Costco. We usually just go to Publix, wait. So I can't wait. Because you're a frosting girl. Yeah, oh, I love frosting, I know. That's why you're going to love it. Okay, I can't wait. Okay, so, speaking of anxiety again, when Jen brings up, we never to grams and grams goes, that's it, I'm not going. That's like, that's, that's great, I love that, okay.
Speaker 1:So then we have the scene where joey now goes on to the college campus, yeah, with colin, and jack insists on coming. Good on, jack, smart friend, because he's like it's an adventure, because he's like we're gonna do a photo shoot. Red flag at the back, backstage, I have clothes for you, right, and jack's like I'm gonna come to you. But it basically just turns into like let's put katie holmes, the actress, in every um, like smoke show, outfit show. Yeah, because she wouldn't normally wear this as her character, right, and let's have a montage.
Speaker 1:Okay, just looking hot, but don't have, I love me a photo shoot montage. I mean, I loved it. Oh my God. Like a gold dress, oh, yes, black boa, oh my God, I need, we need, we need to have our own. Except our photo shoot montage would not be smoke shows, maybe 50%. Wow, that's a lofty goal. We need to. We need to have a photo shoot where we're 50% smoke show. We need to have a photo shoot where we're 50% smoke show, maybe 49.
Speaker 1:I think we could do it. We would just need a lot of assistance. Yeah, I think we could do it. I would need coaching. I'd have no idea how to be a smoke show, do you? Would you like me to be your coach? Because that doesn't seem like a good idea. I don't think in the end that's what you're going to want. Just imagine you remember that's what you're gonna want. Just imagine you remember my roller skating coaching from last episode. Just spin around, I, so that I could do that would be like the worst. I'm just. This is hilarious. That's our next reel danny and katie trying to figure out how to be smoke shows. I love it, let's do it. No, I'm just kidding, I was totally, and then we'll just throw pies at each other at the end we're like we give up here.
Speaker 1:You go one weird guy that commented on our youtube. Go one weird guy, you got your wish. Oh okay. So there's that what is happening today. So there's like a very brief moment where, um, it's maybe like three or four sentences, but joey and jack are talking and she says something about him being gay like a three dollar bill, what and then she, she gets mad at him and she says you really need to get your gaydar effect, oh yeah. And then jack's all like well, they don't like offer training courses. What? Yeah, what am I supposed to do? Because if you haven't watched it, listeners colin wants to ask jack out, not jo date, not Joey. Plot twist yes. And so then Joey tries to get them to meet up without asking Jack's consent. Yeah, she tells Colin, yeah, I'll have him meet you here at like 11. That was going to be 11 pm. What are these people doing? Well, I mean, I guess for teenagers, yeah, that's different. They're not going to dinner, they're just meeting up. They're just meeting up, true, and jack gets really upset and he says just because there's a second homosexual in capeside right his words, I'm not obligated to go out with him, correct, and you shouldn't have consented for me, right? And I was like, yes, that in every situation people have to make their own decisions for those things. Oh, and then we've got where I totally forgot about this plot line.
Speaker 1:Dawson's new film teacher watches his movie and she says do you remember what she said when it was done First? She says I don't, I don't remember the critique. She goes it's fine, it's fine, she told him it was. Well, I laughed because I think I wrote down. She said his film was about teenagers who talk too much she's basically describing Dawson's Creek, which is funny, which is I thought I thought that was a good little joke who talk too much and are way too sophisticated for their age. Yeah, that was a good little like basically just saying like that's funny. Yeah, that was funny, I like that too. So she didn't like it and he took the criticism. Very, very of course he did.
Speaker 1:And then back to Jack and joey. When joey's all kind of upset, kind of being like, oh, you know, like nobody likes me, and blah, blah, blah, and jack just kind of gives her a little kiss on her forehead, I know, so cute, and he says, joey, don't worry about it, we have plenty of time to be kissed, exactly, I loved that. I know I was like, yeah, that's, that's a great way to look at it, because we've talked before about, like the pressure, the virginity pressure. Yes, so for him to just be like it's okay, but also I mean part of that's probably just her hormones being like I would like some smooching, that too, that too. And then we kind of get a little foreshadowing when the film you can't see me if you're listening and he just did this little witch hand I did not doing. It was good.
Speaker 1:Um, where mitch dawson's dad gets in the car with the film teacher, of course he does. She's a she's a hot teacher and he's a new single hot dad. Yes, not exactly not surprised, and they live in a small town. Who else we gonna get with? I guess the next attractive person that just pops up out of nowhere? Right for now I guess her. And so at the end then I really did feel for dawson. When there's that final scene where he's out there and everyone's interacting with other people on a meaningful way. So he sees the teacher, I think he sees her get in the car. Yeah, his dad. He sees like Jack congratulating Joey because she sold something and they hug, and then I think like Pacey and Andy are nearby and it's just everyone's having these kind of connection moments and he's just standing there feeling bad about his film and his life and his love life and all the things, and I did feel for him. That was all I really had.
Speaker 1:Oh, and Joey's dad he comes back at the very end. That's right. Yeah, joey gets home and there's a guy standing at the door and you wonder for a second actually who it is. And he turns around and it's her dad, and I'll tell y'all this these episodes now moving forward, a lot of shit happens in the last few minutes. This is where we start entering that era of Dawson's Creek and other shows where the cliffhanger, the big shit happens in the last five. Like, don't fall asleep, don't turn it off early, because you're going to miss something. You're going gonna miss it.
Speaker 1:Oh, and I forgot I kind of skipped over um, that graham's realizes what is married because he cancels their eight o'clock date because his wife's not feeling well, yeah, so then she feels kind of down, she feels kind of down in the dumps. But jen apologizes because jen's like oh no, I'm sorry, I pushed you. And she says, no, this was good because it reminded me that, like, that part of me is there, yeah, and I was excited for this and I did like, and she looked great, she looked great. Listen, I am a fan of hair dye and that hair dye looked good, it looked good, it looked good. Her makeup, yeah. So she, if nothing else, was able to remember that feeling. So I like that. All right.
Speaker 1:So joey's dad, yep, shows up from. In case you forgot about joey's dad, he was in jail, prison, yes, fresh out the slammer. Yeah, and that was it. And then we go on the next episode, which is called a perfect wedding. Are you ready or you have more on that episode? Okay, the next one. Uh, the summary of that episode is a capeside wedding forces joey to face up to her family's reputation.
Speaker 1:So before we jump in, are you a wedding person? Do you like weddings? I guess I've never really thought about it. I'm either, or I like good weddings. Okay, for instance, chore's brother, one of his brothers he has two recently got married this past fall and it was such a fun wedding. Okay, they told the DJ do not play any slow songs, except for their little song. They did. It was just dance, fun music all night, nice, and they had a. It was a. I mean, it was a smaller wedding, but it was still a lot of people and they had. They had like a cocktail hour and drink. They had like a themed cocktail. So, like, the groom and the bride picked their favorite cocktail and you could like get. It was anyway, food was great, but then I feel like the music makes the moment right, definitely. And it was so much fun. Everybody in my family was dancing, including my teenager, who does not dance much Cooper was, of course, out there. Yeah, oh my God, it was a good time.
Speaker 1:But I also remember going to a wedding years back of a sorority sister that was at a church, the wedding and the reception. It was a dry wedding, which is fine, and they didn't play music, so we just sat around these weird tables. That feels really solemn. It was, it was, yeah. So I like a wedding when it's a good time, right, but I'm not overly romantic. I like romantic moments, but sometimes weddings, I think, because I've been in weddings. Unfortunately, I've been in three weddings which should never have happened and we knew it in the moment. The three that you were in yeah, I was not the bride at the wedding, I was in the wedding party. Okay, and like, yeah, that's stressful. Yeah, honestly, I have not been to many weddings.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was in one of a sorority sister, college friend of mine, who's still married to that person today, and then my brother got married and I was like a bridesmaid in that one and then I honestly, like we were thinking about that the other day I was like I can't remember the last time I've been to a wedding. I've been to a lot but, to be fair, like I was in my mom's wedding when she got remarried, I was in three of my sister's. Wait, one, two, three. Your sister got married three times. Hold on, one, two, three, four times. And you were in three. Okay, go, sister. Sorry, tara, I was about to say Brant and I both have brothers who aren't, who aren't married and don't plan to ever get married, gotcha, so that automatically those are like big family weddings, which is fine. Well then, troy has four siblings. So, like I've been to his sister's wedding and then his brother's, and now the other two are engaged. They'll be having weddings in the next year. And then I mean, I was in a lot of.
Speaker 1:I was in like three of my sorority sister weddings I was in. I mean, yeah, I like a, I like a good party, maybe that's what it is. I like a good party and I like to get dressed up. I enjoy that. You know my sister-in-law's wedding was fun too. Troy's older sister, that was a good time. Well, I have five kids. Even if a few of them don't get married, I figure I've got a few in my future at some point. Weddings are fun and it'll be fun. They're a good time. It'll be a good time. Oh, you just mentioned the perfect wedding. Oh, I said when they do like.
Speaker 1:Previously on Dawson's Creek, yes, especially for this one, you know what's gonna come up in the episode, because they don't touch on everything. For example, I saw but you know what's weird Tyson was in that preview and then he wasn't in this episode. Yeah, because I remember thinking maybe they cut, we're gonna see Ty and then he. Maybe they cut it. Well, anyway. And I said the thing again about the notebook. Dawson's movie reminds me of the notebook because I saw it again.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Joey's dad came back at the end of the last one, so he's in the ice house, the restaurant, I just thought it was. I mean not to laugh at their like optimism, how like one catering job was going to get them out of debt and like where did they get all the shit for a wedding last minute, right, did you notice that? I mean even just the outfits. I know they got all these like fancy outfits plus all this food. You all of a sudden know how to make cakes, yeah, like elaborate wedding cakes, and it was what a couple days out from the wedding, right, I mean good for them, I know for like trying to level up. So I loved that, yes, but I was also like one catering job isn't going to do that and I don't know. It's just a lot, oh, I know.
Speaker 1:And then when I just said jack's advice to joey too much, too fast, I think that just has to do with, um, how she was feeling overwhelmed by her dad, oh, and he kind of was just like, yeah, firming her, okay. So then abby is here. Yeah, so this was funny because jen all of a sudden decides she wants to be friends with abby. That was weird, out of nowhere. Yeah, and she approaches her and she's like I'm bored and let's be friends again. Yeah, and she's like you're the only person I've ever had fun with here in Capeside, which is weird, because you swam naked with Dawson girl, did you forget? That's true, sure, I didn't, but she, but it did seem random, I guess, when we get a lot further along in the episode with the plot point they had to connect somehow, but and but, and then abby just being like, okay, cool, well, I mean, that was kind of a loose cannon. So she kind of is like who knows which way I know, but also, I have to say, her pastel eyeshadow and her brown lipstick her and gail, because gail had it too.
Speaker 1:Yes, she did. That was my look back then. It was cute. I mean, it's not really, but they did both have it though. You're right, I know, listen, that was my look. I have so many pictures of the late 90s. Or, I told you all about my white eyeshadow. I was so excited I got to wear white eyeshadow in this last show. I was like I've missed you. You're back, because it was the late 60s. It's like we never broke up, but it wasn't the shiny like this. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, I saw that and I was like, damn, that brings back memories. And she wore that memories. And she wore that. Abby had on that feathery like coat. Oh, I had something very similar. It was good, yes, and, and Gail's dress was really pretty Like silver, yeah, whatever, I mean, most of the teens were in the catering outfits, except for Abby and Jen, so they didn't really have like wedding fashion, but yeah, that was really really good.
Speaker 1:Speaking of Gail, let's talk about her for a second. How she all of a sudden is like I'm gonna get your dad back and I'm like why are we doing this? Yeah, y'all went through this whole rigmarole back and forth and now all of a sudden, I know I didn't like that because it was almost like now that he's finally starting to move on. Now you wanna. I know I feel like it's human nature though, I know, but still I know it annoyed me. It was annoying, I agree with you on that. Um, but yeah, she, she kind of decided that, so that was kind of a plot point too. Right that she decides. And then, and then dawson being like, well, if you want something, go get it. Basically, which, also like he's your, I know son, who wants his parents to be married. Of course he's gonna say that, but I was like, yeah, maybe not the best advice.
Speaker 1:Did you notice pacey's hair was a little different when he was catering? It had like the. It had like the little flip up at the front, the flip up. That was really cute. I remember that hairstyle. I was like, oh, he's fancy in this one. He's fancy Okay, fancy, fancy, okay. So little existential moment.
Speaker 1:The bride, who is not a normal character, it's just whatever wedding they were at is having what we would call cold feet before the wedding, crying, locks herself in a bathroom. Dawson tries to help, what we would call cold feet before the wedding, crying locks herself in a bathroom, dawson tries to help, then Jack tries to help. Anyway, in the long run I feel, like I, that I used to just accept that sort of storyline like oh, ha, ha, ha, she'll be fine. And then I was watching it this time and I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:If we have to literally convince women in these moments or men like maybe, hello, maybe they shouldn't be, because I actually had to talk a friend into walking down the aisle, except the difference was I told her because she was having a moment like this. I said I was her maid of honor and I looked at her. I said if you want to go, we can go. I said, but you really need to think about it, you, you say all the things you're supposed to say. I said, but if you want to go, we can go, I'll handle it. Yeah, she ended up getting married. She probably shouldn't have, but anyway. Yeah, my sister also had a moment like this before her first wedding, as we can see what happened there.
Speaker 1:So anyway, I agree with you 100%, like, if you're feeling I mean nerves is normal, like jittery nerves is totally normal, like it's one thing if you don't want to go out there and have people look at you, right, and you're going to stop that Exactly. It's another thing if you're like, wait, do I really want to commit to this? Because, yeah, marriage is, it's a commitment. And then it's like Dawson's congratulating Jack for getting her to go down the aisle, which first of all, again teenage boys, again Like what, I'm so sure I'd listen to it. And then she even says to them and then she's like you saved my life. And I was like, come on.
Speaker 1:Also, if you're getting advice from two teenage boys on relationships, red flag On your wedding day and you're like, oh, 16 year old, who's been in one relationship, yeah, you're right, let me go marry this guy. Yeah, I didn't love it. I know why they did it. Well, I think because we can see in hindsight like, maybe don't force somebody, because we I mean, like I just said, I have I have had that almost exact moment with a friend and was like, hey, you do want to need, you love him, whatever, but if you want to go, you can go. Yeah, she didn't Cause I don't think she really did want to leave, I think she was just nervous. But yeah, I just that's the first time that I think I've seen this sort of like trope of a plot and been like, oh yeah, wait a second, you know, yeah, ok.
Speaker 1:So when Abby and Jen are in Jen's room hanging out, this is before they go to crash the wedding. I wrote Abby looks like a Spice Girl. Oh yeah, her outfit was like With her little, three little pigtails yeah, the little pigtails, and then like the jeans and little shirt and then the makeup yeah, it's very sporty Spice, very sporty Spice. Oh. And then Abby says we need to go. This is what we need to do booze and boys, let's go.
Speaker 1:Jayden's like no, as long as it's at 3 pm on saturday, I will be there three o'clock. If it starts to get dark, oof, I'm grumpy. But if it starts to get dark and I'm still at your house, I'll be okay. Well, there's wine. I won't be looking at my dishes. You're gonna have wine, you're fine, we'll be okay'll be fine. And it's different when you're not in your environment. Right, and it's my birthday. If you're having a good time and you don't have to work the next day, I'm not going home to like, yeah, exactly, do you know what I mean. It's different. I can.
Speaker 1:I can deal with all of talking about oh, he shouldn't be let like he was around drugs and he cheated on his wife and you know. So of course, joey's like overhearing all this, which we sort of confront at the end, where she's kind of like eventually she's like well, people are going to talk, who cares? But that was my thought when she was first really bothered by it. I was just like well, hasn't she been dealing with this for like years? But again it's different. But when he's there it's different. She's probably struggling with like I want to be happy, but also I'm still upset. And then these people are bringing up good points, right. So I could kind of see how she was having trouble there.
Speaker 1:But I did really appreciate what she said when they were talking about the catering and she was panicking about it and all this stuff and her dad's like what's the issue or whatever. And she's like you know, before we're like around strangers, like out in the public eye, like doing this, taking on this big task, we need to re-establish ourselves, right, yeah, and I was like that's such a great point, right, like that's the core of like what's making her upset, you know. So anyway, well, I wrote down. Okay, I had a um, a nostalgic flashback, because the song that plays when her and her dad start dancing and then it ends up being her and dawson and they make out, yeah, that song was on that dawson's creek soundtrack I have and it was my favorite. It's a really pretty song. It's called feels like home and it is, and it used to make me cry. You know those songs that were like um, and I used to listen to it.
Speaker 1:So the guy I dated before Troy is a toxic relationship but he was a Marine and 9-11 happened when we were dating. So he ended up getting anyway, and I remember taking that old CD out and listening to that song, like young Danny being making herself sad anyway, but while they were slow dancing, I was like, oh, that is one thing I also love about weddings. I do love a good slow dance. When's the last time you slow danced? I don't even remember. I cannot tell you. I don't even think I've ever been to a wedding with my husband, because when my brother got married I went out by myself and obviously I don't think my husband and I have ever gone to a wedding together ever. I mean Trey and I. I mean we were just at his brother's but, like I said, there was no slow slow music. So we just booty dance the whole time, which is a good time. I like me a booty dance and but like I was like when was the last time I had a good slow dance?
Speaker 1:Because there's just something about a good little slow dance, cheek to cheek, yeah, and if you're at an event literally celebrating love, yeah, and you're all dressed fancy and cute, nice, yeah, and it's, like you said, kind of out of routine, just like something special, yeah, I love it. I don't know, I mean I know I can't dance with my husband at our wedding, but I don't know if we've ever, old ass, married people. Also, it's like one of those like, like I I can't remember what movie or show this was, but it's like people have been married like a long time, like you and I have not to each other, in case you're new here and they were like when's the last time we like kissed Right, like I kiss and you're like Ooh, you're like wow, did you ever think in your life you would have to think about that? Right, not like kiss, but, like you know, make out kiss, right, right, right. That kind of falls to the wayside when you're married. Yeah, sometimes you're like it's birthday night, we got to get down to business. Birthday morning, whatever. Day morning, danny, it's business time. Just get it done, get it over with sad. Anyway. Slow dancing and smooching, bring it back. Okay, bring it back, bring it back. Slow dancing and smooching. I can't even say it.
Speaker 1:So I wrote I'm all for mitch dating, but bringing the teacher to the wedding that he knew gail was gonna be at, what did you? I just thought that was a little much. On the other hand, I'm on his side, like, and maybe he thought he said I have to move on, she's gonna. He said she's gonna have to get over it. Facts, yeah, but like of all places at a wedding, okay, sorry, I know I didn't love it, but I get. But I, I understand what you're saying. I mean okay, granted, I mean they're, they had problems in their marriage anyway, or she wouldn't have been having an affair. So let me rewind because I'm not gonna right, it's never just one person, it never is. So I will fix that. But also, they are divorced, they signed the papers and it is done. Yeah, and he and he's right. I mean, like it's his colleague, he's moving on, they live in a small town. She's going to see him anyway. That's true. That's true, like it's not, like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when Abby and Jen show up, oh, here we go. And Andy goes, what are you guys doing here? Abby goes, he's in hell. I love her, just the way she said it. What are you doing here, whatever? And so then Andy tries to get them. Well, does get them to leave, because she's like you're going to get us in trouble, you're going to get us fired when, andy, you already ruined the wedding cake, ps, but whatever. So she knocking the top of it off. So she does successfully get them to leave. Yeah, plays into something else.
Speaker 1:And you forgot about this next big moment, didn't you? I forgot, yeah, I knew you hadn't remembered, because I almost said something about it early on, early on, when we were talking about Abby. And then I was like wait, she doesn't remember. I didn't remember. Abby dies everyone. Yep, are we there? Yet you have more stuff. I forgot. Abby died. Yeah, basically, yes, they get kicked out. And then it's funny, because before not funny, but before that happened, I wrote glamorizing, drinking and I said till Abby falls in. But then I have a couple other just like random notes, because I guess I just assumed I really didn't remember because I assumed they pulled her out and all the things.
Speaker 1:Next thing, you know, they cut to her being zipped up. Her corpse she's like blue, zipped up in a body bag, and that was the last minute of the show, last minute, and Jen's just standing there crying. So I remember when this came out, this episode came out, it was like crazy because again it happened the last 60 seconds and this was back before streaming, so you had to watch it every, you know, wednesday night or whatever. Yeah, and I can remember being like because it was so weird, because they show her fall in. And then there's all these other moments that happen. It's true, there was like four. So you're like calm and you're like, oh, you see Jen jump in after her, yeah, and then you're like, oh, dawson and Joey are making out and like, oh, cute, and then all of a sudden it goes back and she's fucking dead. Like going to the morgue, yeah, wild. And then it was over and then it was done Wild. Now I will say you will see her again a little bit. Her ghost comes back a little bit. I don't know how I forgot that, but I did.
Speaker 1:So stay tuned for the next two episodes 19 and 20 coming up, and I guess we'll have to discuss. We do have some summer stuff coming up, so we'll probably take a little hiatus from Dawson's. Maybe'll see, we'll see what happens through season two. But make sure you are reviewing us, sharing us. Yes, whether you watch Dawson's or not, look at all the stuff you would have missed if you didn't listen. Whoa, this is maybe like shit. We're never listening to the Dawson's again, actually. That's why this is the first and last time I'm gonna listen to it. That's also okay. We'll take your download, we'll take it and thanks for listening, guys. We'll see you next time.
