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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek, S2 E15 & E16: Jack's Journey and Harassment by a Teacher
When a teacher begins targeting Jack with homophobic harassment, Pacey discovers his moral compass and takes a stand against authority. The episodes capture the tension between small-town prejudice and emerging identity as Jack navigates the difficult process of coming out in the late 1990s.
Did the writers of Dawson's Creek get this storyline right? Tune in for our take.
Watch Season 2 of Dawson's Creek with us on Hulu.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to our Nostalgic or Problematic series where we are rewatching season two of Dawson's Creek and we are still committed to two episodes a week because we will never get through this series. There's seven seasons, like we got to keep on. And Katie has more time now, and I'm about to have more time too, because I'm about to be done with my show. So, yeah, yeah, all right. So season two, episode 15, is called. That is the Question, and here is the summary. As rumors about Jack's sexuality continue unabated, pacey sets out to stop a teacher's relentless harassment.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's exactly it. So the episode before this was to be or not to be. Yeah, that is the question. That is the question, yeah, which is kind of witty from a writing standpoint.
Speaker 1:I didn't realize that till just now.
Speaker 2:And the way they have it written is dot, dot, dot, right, that is the question. So okay, so we've got the opening where Pacey is in. Dawson's room watching Jerry Maguire, jerry Maguire, and it's like the scene where Jerry's quitting, yeah, and Renee Zellweger goes with him, and Jerry Maguire's like I'm taking the fish, yes, like I totally forgot about that part.
Speaker 1:We need to rewatch that movie too. Let me add that to our list.
Speaker 2:I love that movie I did, so I don't know if I would love it again.
Speaker 1:I know because. I have a feeling some of it maybe not.
Speaker 2:so he, he's watching that because he's suspended from school, right, and so I guess he's just kind of like hiding out at Dawson's for a few days. And so Dawson is kind of expressing how he's kind of getting annoyed with Pacey in his space and he's telling him Pacey, like you should go talk to Andy you know you haven't talked to her for a while and I wrote this down because I love this because Pacey's like we're at an impasse. And then Dawson's like no, you mean avoidance, yeah, like you're not, like you're avoiding her, and since he's not at school, he doesn't have to see her. So Dawson's essentially trying to encourage him to reach out and talk to her, which he doesn't do till he goes back to school, right, uh. And then pacey's like it's not fair, joey gets the bed when she stays because austin's like kicking him out to go sleep on the couch of course she does.
Speaker 1:Hello yeah, so I just thought that whole scene was kind of funny but I also, like after that little intro, I hate this fucking theme song. It's awful, it's so bad. I hate it, I don't like it either.
Speaker 2:Where is paula cole bitches? I it's so bad, I hate it. I don't like it either. Where is Paula Cole bitches? I know it's really bad. It really ruins the mood. It does.
Speaker 1:Um so okay, yeah, Fucking teacher, Like let's just get something before him.
Speaker 2:I don't think so.
Speaker 1:No, okay, okay, I hate this man and we talked about this on the last one. Yes, I've had teachers like him, okay, who never got fired, but okay when he does his whole little spiel on where he's like. Your grades will now be subjective, like, depending on my own, like opinions and thoughts. Um, that is illegal, right, a hundred fucking percent. Yeah, for those of you that don't know, I actually have a degree in education, which is shocking because it's elementary education, shocking, I know what universe. Anyway, something that you learn very soon on when you take classes on legality stuff, you have to have clear, set guidelines, no matter what grade you're on, that have to line up with your state content standards. You don't get to just go in there and willy nilly and do whatever you want, like this man is like, and they check up on you. They're supposed to be.
Speaker 2:Right Right. I think they're bigger on that now than even back then. Right Right.
Speaker 1:Correct Like nowadays, he would, first of all, never last being like this. Not that there aren't asshole teachers there's plenty of them out there but I was like that's fucking illegal. You can't just say if I like it or not is your grade.
Speaker 2:Right. And then he put an F on Pacey's poem but no notes. And so Pacey says, like well, what feedback can you give me to improve? And he's oh, I just didn't like it. You're or no, he goes be a better writer, yeah, or something like that how is that as a? Writer. I was like oh, and how is that teaching right? It's not, and he's just being an asshole I hate this guy and you're supposed to hate him.
Speaker 2:I mean, right, you're supposed to. He's using his power in the wrong way for sure. Um, I just so my thoughts on this change as the episode goes on. But at the beginning, when jen and ty are kissing and they kind of got like a little bit of pda, I was like, oh, that's kind of cute and also, even though it was just on the last episode, I was like I forgot about them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, and I was wrong. I said his name was tyler. It is not, it is tyson. You were right, I was right, you were right.
Speaker 2:So do you know how I know? Because Graham says it doesn't she? Also, there was a young man who lived in the apartment under me in college, whose name was Tyson, that I had a huge crush on. So you remember the name so when I hear the name, I'm like yep.
Speaker 1:You remember, you remember the Tyson what's up?
Speaker 2:Tyson Okay.
Speaker 1:I'm sure he's listening right now.
Speaker 2:I'm sure he's listening right this minute wondering what I'm doing, just like he cared so much in college.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't that be so interesting? You know how you can remember crushes from whenever in your life You're like oh, and you still think of them with fondness. I wonder Do you ever wonder if people out there had a crush on you? You don't know about that, still think about you. I never thought about it until right now. Me either Nobody had crushes on me.
Speaker 2:I mean, I feel like I knew about the people that had crushes on me. I think even people that I maybe didn't feel the same way about told me at one point or another.
Speaker 1:I only had one because, guys, we know Katie was much cooler and cuter than me growing up, so I only had one time. I remember this happening to me when I was in high school. I had a friend named BJ and he was. He was so much fun. He was, I think he was a year younger, he was a grade younger than me, but he was the same age as me. So I was young and I remember he asked me to go to a dance and then told me we're at the dance, he had a crush on me and I was like oh yeah, like I just, but he was fine, I mean, he was so sweet and he was like, okay, he was like I just had to tell you.
Speaker 1:And I was like well, I appreciate it and I love, I love you. I think you're so much fun. He was so nice and funny and cute, but I just I don't know.
Speaker 2:No, I can think of a handful of times. Oh, of course you can. Of course you can a handful of times, times that, like I, was on the reverse side oh, that was me all the time all the time about the, the guy in college that I would go visit all the time in his office and he was a grad student and he was like so cute and kind, and then I eventually asked him to a sorority dance and he was like, oh, I have a girlfriend.
Speaker 1:Like he was like basically engaged it's weird, though, because, you know, we have like a whole narrative in our own brains.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and looking back, I just remember trying to get the courage to constantly like take it the next step which was just to like see if he wanted to hang out outside of like whatever the student government building or whatever. And looking back I'm like, well, like he didn't bring it up either and there's a reason for that. But in my head I'm like, oh you, just you don't have your courage. Like, oh, you got to do, say something, Right.
Speaker 1:Or wait, but maybe something. Maybe he did, but he was in a relationship and he was just not trying to mess with that. He was in a relationship and he was just not trying to mess with that. Maybe he did have a crush on you.
Speaker 2:I mean, do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I think like I didn't imagine that part. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Like I don't like.
Speaker 2:sometimes, maybe we put feelings on people that aren't there. Oh yeah, we do, but this was not that to the point that I was surprised.
Speaker 1:That's what I mean. Why are you spending so much time with?
Speaker 2:me and like acting the way that you act right he probably still did have a crush on you.
Speaker 1:He just was in a committed relationship and decided that he yeah. So all that to say. Anyway it does happen so, anyway, people out there, if you've had crushes on katie, right, tell us now, tyson. If it's you, katie's gonna get like 15 messages and I'm gonna be crickets, crickets, nothing, nothing. Or I'll get a message being like remember when you had that crush on me? How embarrassing for you.
Speaker 2:Mine will be like yeah, I did have a crush on you, or currently do, and Danny's will be like you have a crush on me, right like absolutely fucking nothing oh my god, that's hilarious. That would not be how that goes, katie has a crush on me.
Speaker 1:Everybody, okay, I thought you had a crush on me.
Speaker 2:You can't get it straight.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, here we go.
Speaker 2:Another line I really liked is still kind of opening. When they're all in the hallway is Joey's looking in her locker for something and Jack says, geez, how deep does this thing go, the locker? Why do you notice the funniest dialogue? Does this thing go, the locker? Why do you notice the funniest dialogue? Because I felt that I was like, yeah, that would be me going through anything. Oh, like okay, like someone would be waiting and you know when someone's watching you and you're looking through your purse or you're like looking what time.
Speaker 1:We went to pod fest and we're trying, we're trying to check into the hotel. Katie couldn't find her ID and you guys, it was like her purse was so small and she just starts taking all this shit out. It's on the floor. She gets this bag. There's like wrappers and bullshit. I was like what is even in here?
Speaker 2:It was like a Mr Bean moment. Yes, it was Like in Love Actually, when he's like it's like what is even in here? It was like a Mr Bean moment. Yes, it was Like in Love Actually, when he's like it's like a clown car purse yes, like I'm pulling stuff out of it.
Speaker 1:It's like where is this even coming from?
Speaker 2:And my idea was in there.
Speaker 1:She's like oh, here it is, with like a straw wrapper and like some gum, yeah, like gum stuck on Like that yeah. And you panic when someone's like waiting for you, like sweating because like I'm standing there laughing and so understanding. And then the nice little cash not cashier, whatever. Yeah, the concierge lady was just like hands folded on the counter, like staring at her, like oh wait sweating and there's a line of people behind us and I'm sure we had on something stupid right, I think we were dressed then in one of our.
Speaker 2:Were we in our winters?
Speaker 1:oh no, we had we just had on our sweatshirts, so we weren't oh yeah, okay, okay, we were, we were chill anyway, but my person. But yes, I get it what you're saying now.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, kind of like stood out to me. Um, but then that we have our first kind of homophobic cringy thing that happens in that same scene yeah when jack or someone I think it's jack, but it might have been joey says let's have an into the closet party yeah like celebrate that you're not gay. I just wrote yikes, yeah, there's so much yikes.
Speaker 1:There's a lot in this one. So much yikes and yeah, there's so much yikes.
Speaker 2:There's a lot in this one, so much yikes. And then Dawson giving Joey relationship advice, like kind of early on Like okay, Dawson. Yeah, like you're, you're kind of kind of got a bias here. First of all, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I thought that he doesn't really have much wisdom. Come on. All right, so let's talk about I. The next thing I had was the speakeasy. Oh yeah, okay, like I found out some interesting stuff there, um so that was really funny and I was like, okay, I'm so sure underage kids. But then I was like, wait, I snuck into bars, did you oh?
Speaker 2:yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a different time you could.
Speaker 2:You could never sneak into bars nowadays, you, you never, never, never could. But you youngins out there need to understand. Back in the 90s was the last era that you could sneak into bars. Well, so, like as an aside to that, they're going there because we haven't even said oh yeah, it's dawson's birthday. No, that's the next that's the next one oh, sorry are you on the wrong notes no, I don't say birthday, but I'm just talking about the nightclub, because they go back.
Speaker 1:That's what it is yeah, they go back yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. So in the nightclub I recognize the singer from like another time they were in there, so I looked her up. Uh-huh, sarah Seidman Vance. She's the singer in the club. She's on a couple episodes, emmy-winning makeup artist, fun, and she specifically did Katie Holmes' makeup for the first three seasons. Okay, and they're like you're a jazz singer, sing in these episodes. So that's who that is. Oh, that's fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a fun little trivia, I just took a little pause and was like who is that? Who's this singer I like?
Speaker 2:Katie without a full-time job, let's go down some road. Makeup artist Emmy-winning who. Makeup artist Emmy winning who cares well, without a full-time nine-to-five job is correct. You still have a full-time job with her performing arts studio, but it's different hours. I'm noticing the details more than ever.
Speaker 2:I love that, um, so even before, okay, so I did say CD bar Ty, jen. So the people that go to the CD bar are Ty and Jen, joey and Dawson, yeah, and then Ty starts playing jazz piano. Of course he does. Of course he does. Of course you never see his fingers. I watched for that too. It's like I'm sitting here and you're just supposed to believe that I'm playing, yeah, and I am just forget it. Um, and then we've got the three of them not including ty, because he's playing jazz piano, kind of bemoaning their fates, yeah, and dawson and jens are kind of funny. But then joey's, yeah, and Dawson and Jen's are kind of funny. But then Joey's is like well, at least your boyfriend's not gay, or whatever she says. And it's like and they all giggle and they're like oh yeah, you win, or whatever. And I was like oh boy.
Speaker 1:Well, boy, the word of the show is proverbial. They still have said this. It so many times in recent episodes.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Proverbial.
Speaker 2:Yeah, proverbial.
Speaker 1:The writers were on a kick, I guess.
Speaker 2:I guess they were. They were like ooh, new vocab words. Use it, use it 10 times in the season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Anyway, that was just a random aside from there, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, additionally, I thought this was really interesting, without going too into the weeds the principal calling Andy and Jack's dad and basically saying they're in crisis. You need to come check in. Jack thinks he's gay, or Jack might be gay, whatever. Whatever I mean we're dealing with an issue like that. Even current times is just a reminder where, like a teacher, yeah, didn't tell a parent something that a name that a student wanted to use and is basically not getting her job renewed because of it, because a parent felt like they should know.
Speaker 2:But this episode and I know it's fiction is a good example why you shouldn't. Right, because you don't know what the home life is. Whatever it is, as long as the kid is physically safe and not harming themselves or others like you, it may be dangerous or detrimental to them for their parents to know they want to use a different name or they are gay or whatever. Like that's not really a teacher's place or a principal's place to do, which is what they do in this episode well, and that fucking dad oh like the fucking dad like first of all, he don't even live there, and then he's like, oh, disrupt my life to come deal with this.
Speaker 1:It's like hello, you're a fucking parent and your wife is inept and for whatever. I'm not saying that as an insult, I'm just saying she's sick, she can't, and you're just like, okay, bye, I'm gonna go make the money. You guys figure it out and then be like annoyed that you yeah, he's like so annoyed that you have to come fucking parent your kids, right like, whether you like it or not, once you become a parent, that's your job, that you gotta do it, yeah, yeah. And he just was like peace out, guys.
Speaker 2:And then he asked jack at dinner, basically like are you? Gay jack, but then follows up with it like because I think this family's been through enough and we don't need this, and that's like well, of course he's gonna say no, of course. In that moment, what are you talking about? And like his fucking self being like we've been through enough.
Speaker 1:You're not even there. What do you mean we? Yeah, you're not doing shit. I mean, I get it, he's like working to make money, but then don't move your family away Like I don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know I hate this whole dad storyline.
Speaker 1:I think they could have done that different, but whatever, yeah, okay. So then, while we're talking about the gay stuff, let's talk about Tyler Tyson whatever the fuck his name is and his bullshit opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:On being gay, which they had to throw in there.
Speaker 2:They had to because he's kind of the voice of people.
Speaker 1:That feel that way.
Speaker 2:Yes, right, right, right so he's basically just saying, like he did, he doesn't think it's well. He's saying he doesn't think it's good or bad, it's just, it is a choice he's saying it's a choice and he's saying it's the wrong choice, right and that if you want to deal with your consequences of your choice, that's up to you.
Speaker 1:Well, and like that should. That should have been a deal breaker for jen immediately. Well, that's the part I hate, but she's 16 I know and I mean, I know, back in the day I dated people we didn't line up on all the big things do you know what I mean? I do yeah, so it should have been a deal breaker. She's 16. She's trying to figure it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he's 16 too, and surprisingly, graham's comes to Jen's side and is kind of standing up for Jack, although did you notice the buzzword she used.
Speaker 1:No, what was it?
Speaker 2:Tolerance yeah, here's, as if it's a good thing.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about. Let's talk about this Graham situation for a minute. For all of y'all that have not listened to the podcast in the past, you know I used to be part of the evangelical church, pretty conservative, and I left Um, and the hugely problematic stance that Graham is taking doesn't seem problematic to her, but it is problematic because it's the whole love the center, hate the sin. The key word there is. You still think it's wrong.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right, yes, so you are not.
Speaker 2:Tolerance is like I don't agree with you, but I guess I'm putting up with you.
Speaker 1:So that's not acceptance, everyone, no, that's not support. And she's like he needs love and support. Well, you're not giving it to him because you're still not accepting him for who he is and you're still saying who he is is wrong, right. So, and I and I will say because I've had conversations with people in real life multiple times about this very thing that is a very hard thing to get people to grasp is why that is not supportive and loving, right, and I have watched people in the LGBTQ plus community speak on why they feel the way they feel when people say that and they still don't get it. They just are like but I love you and accept you, no, you don't. No, you don't. You're telling me I'm wrong.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But that like.
Speaker 2:I guess it's like you can see past it or whatever. Exactly, and it's still out of just like I see you and you are you, and that's great and you know, and I think the big, I don't know so that's.
Speaker 1:and then when she said so that's, and then when she said, like let God be the judge Right.
Speaker 2:That's also saying because I know what God will think. Right, my version of God, right, right.
Speaker 1:You're right, it is not your. I mean, if you are a Christian person, it is not your job to judge, but you kind of are yeah.
Speaker 2:If you say that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally agree, like you kind of are so anyway, yep, I agree. So we're done talking about her, I guess For now. So then I put here that when Dawson's walking Joey home after the speakeasy she's like, oh, you didn't have to walk me home.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, and at first I was kind of annoyed because I'm like, ugh, he's just trying to swoop. That's kind of what Jack did, right. So then I was like it's fine, you teenage boys. Also like I don't want Joey walking home by herself, right, walk that girl home, yeah, Um. So then there's the whole scene.
Speaker 1:I know it's coming.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm going to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So where Joey's this part's not funny, where she's feeling likeson am.
Speaker 1:I sexual.
Speaker 2:Which I get that, though. Isn't that a Backstreet Boys song? Am I sexual? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Yeah, seriously Okay, but I get it. I get why she feels that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I have felt, I mean, I can understand that too, because you know, I think how we see ourselves is can be very different sometimes on how other people see us, because we have all our issues and our things, true, and I, I, I feel for her Cause I know I I have never been like oh, I look so sexy, like. Or if I have ever gotten a compliment like that, I am like oh, I look so sexy, like. Or if I have ever gotten a compliment like that, I am like what are you talking about?
Speaker 1:Like I am such a nerd Like if people say, oh, you're so cute, sometimes I'm like, okay, like cute, maybe sometimes I can take. But if somebody ever is like, oh, you're like, oh, I can't think of any time anybody ever said do people say this to you. No, but I'm just you know what.
Speaker 2:I mean, like that would be, you would have trouble believing.
Speaker 1:I would, and like if I was in her situation at her age, for sure, and that happened, I would be like okay.
Speaker 2:Right, and she and she's not just talking about the stuff with Jack, which she does mention, right, she's also saying like well, look at you, dawson, you wanted Jen, exactly. And she's like saying like well, look at you, dawson, you wanted Jen exactly. She's, like you know, in her eyes like more glamorous or sexy than me, yeah. So she was kind of giving a lot of examples that made her think. But Dawson says I know, Joey, you are extremely sexual.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh my god, what are you? What are you even saying I wouldn't say she's extremely sexual? That seems like you're going a bit far. He said everybody has their things, katie.
Speaker 2:And then he's also 16.
Speaker 1:Everything is sexual.
Speaker 2:Extremely when you're 16. You know what he said after that. I don't know, I was laughing, he said and this made me cringe You're blossoming, ew. I was like what, so back to 16, I'm like no, no 16 year old boy is going to say that.
Speaker 1:That's like something your grandma would tell you Exactly your 16 year old boy that was next door that yeah or not boyfriend or whoever, so anyway.
Speaker 2:So that whole scene, I felt for her, though, and, like you said, it's it's our own self, whatever it is our own self-consciousness that we do sometimes project on to like other people like oh, they're treating me this way because I'm like this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And really, they're maybe not treating you any particular way or you're taking it a certain way, right? You know, whatever it is, whether it's romantic relationship, work, colleagues, right? Friendships, whatever it may be, so that was an interesting scene. Yeah, friendships, whatever it may be, so that was an interesting scene.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought so too Weird. Okay, so then Jack and his whole scene with his dad made me sad for a bunch of reasons. Number one that coming out even has to be a thing Like why can't we just be Be?
Speaker 2:And Jack even says to his dad in that scene you've known, you know Right, like you treated me different than Tim and like but that even was problematic to me too.
Speaker 1:You think yeah, Because that's also saying that if you are gay, that you're automatically going to act different, Like you know.
Speaker 2:I, but I think he was just saying like, like, I think this is something you haven't wanted to face. And then you treated me differently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not that, that's right.
Speaker 2:I see what you're saying, but I think he's just saying to him like this shouldn't surprise you, I know, you know, right, you're my parent and you've known me my whole life. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's just sad. It was sad for a lot of reasons. I totally agree, because dad is an asshole. He was upset, but then it makes me sad that he's so upset. He's like because now I have to deal with this and I'm like your sexuality should never be something that you have to deal with. Right Right, it should just be, but it's society that fucks it up for all of us, so you do have to deal with it, so you do have to deal with it.
Speaker 1:And that's the sad part, yeah For sure Is because I think if and we'll talk about this on the next episode I think if we just got rid of all the labels and stuff and like Well, yeah, next episode.
Speaker 2:You know where I'm going to go with that. I know where you're going Then.
Speaker 1:I think it would be a whole different world world Right.
Speaker 2:We don't have to put anything in a box or a label.
Speaker 1:Because what's the?
Speaker 2:point yeah, that's what I think, what is?
Speaker 1:the point.
Speaker 2:It's to exclude people. It's to feel like you are a part of a group and other people aren't.
Speaker 1:Yes, when, like could all just be the same group it's fine, and anytime you put a label on something, you put limits.
Speaker 2:Definitely yeah, which is why this whole, you know, which is why it's sad and also like, like we've talked about the language around this at the time maybe even to some people might have seemed progressive. Yeah, we know that it's not right now, because we're even saying, like, having to declare I am gay and then that's like what you are forever, forever. It's problematic, yeah, like, and I mean when you shouldn't have to do that.
Speaker 1:When this came out, when Jack, he was the first Gay character On a teen show yeah, he was. And then he has a gay kiss later and he was the first yeah, um, gay Kiss Teen character On the gay kiss teen character on the show. Yeah, which you guys and I think that even I mean not to spoil it, but hello, it's been a long time. I think that happens not even next season, or maybe it was next season, but that was like 2000. Like that's not that long ago.
Speaker 2:No, no, which PS you know? I looked up a picture of Jack, yeah, recently, or whatever. Up a picture of jack yeah, recently or whatever.
Speaker 1:He is very good looking right, total silver right.
Speaker 2:So good looking, everybody from this show, everybody man. Something about the show everybody from this show capeside mass okay, so then we've got the scene where the teacher okay, so we haven't even talked about this yet where pacey stays up all night. Yeah and research is kind of what you were talking about the laws.
Speaker 2:For me a teacher and gets all these testimonials from other students who, basically, are saying things that the teacher has done wrong, and he hands it to the principal and he gives it to the school board and it results in the teacher being fired.
Speaker 1:Well, he quit because he didn't want to go through that because he knew he was fucking guilty. Yeah right, he didn't want to stand before he's Because he knew he was fucking guilty yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, he didn't want to stand before he's like I'm not going to.
Speaker 1:You know, demean myself. I listen to all the things I've done wrong or whatever.
Speaker 2:But he's packing up and so the teacher kind of throws something at him about like well, you got me fired. Where's the compassion in that?
Speaker 1:But it's like no late, sir, but P in that.
Speaker 2:But it's like no too late, sir. But pacey says respect is earned through compassion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he ends up getting fired. So go, pacey, for like having a cause and seeing it through, uh, okay. So then we've kind of touched on this already ty and jen have that follow-up conversation with him, basically being like so what, we don't agree on stuff, we can't date, blah, blah, blah, blah, and that's what we were saying, where it's like well, it depends what you disagree on. If it's like your favorite sports team, okay, but if it's like big identity and respect for people and all of that.
Speaker 2:But, like you said, they're young she, I think.
Speaker 1:well, and you don't know that sometimes when you're young, I mean even when you're a grown-up, sometimes you don't realize that if you're out there dating and stuff and I think that Jen is- also very open minded.
Speaker 2:So I think him saying to her like well, why, why are you so this way, or why are you so liberal, or why are you so whatever, did make her kind of go. Oh, maybe I should like look at myself too. Yeah, and that's just who she is right character. So I thought that was interesting, although I, that's just who she is right character. Uh, so I thought that was interesting, although I didn't think that they should make up and be together. No, um. And then I thought this was so cute when andy and pacey make up and then pacey says to her how come your apology is so much better than mine? I know this was pretty good, but hers was like I know eloquent and emotional and I just thought that was really funny.
Speaker 2:And then I said iron sharp, iron sharpens iron I mean like just Pacey and Andy together are just so good and you can see Pacey's got confidence, like to even confront that teacher. He's doing better in school. He's even like approaching Andy and being responsible about, like how they get through their argument. You know, you can see it, and it's helping Andy too, which we see even more in the next episode when their argument.
Speaker 1:you know you can see it and it's helping Andy too, yeah, which we see even more in the next episode, Right when she's you know whatever which we're going to get into in just a minute.
Speaker 2:It was just a reminder of that oh okay, funny moment when I was watching this. Not a funny moment in the show, but in real life. So Joey does this fancy dinner down on her dock for Jack, oh yeah. And he comes down and he says you shouldn't have done this. And I out loud said uh-oh yeah. And then Joey says oh, is this the part where I say uh-oh?
Speaker 2:And I had already said it, I go uh-oh, and then there's like a pause. As they go, she goes is this where I'm supposed to say uh-oh? And I was like they're listening, Like I knew I was like, uh-oh, it's coming. So basically he tells Joey that she's gay and that obviously it's not going to work out with them.
Speaker 2:But again the ending and the binaries. I know, I know. And of course she's upset, of course she cares about him and you know they just broke up, uh. So then she crawls through dawson's window crying and doesn't really explain, but he just kind of like holds her and that ends it.
Speaker 2:But even before that, um a moment that kind of warmed my heart is after that moment, on the dock and jack goes home, we see andy sitting at their nice table and I'm trying to eating dinner alone yeah and he walks in and like she pauses, gets up, gives him a hug and it just was a reminder, like their dad's shit, their mom's not well, their brother died, and yet, like they have, they have this bond with each other.
Speaker 1:And I'm not saying that that makes everything else okay, but you're like, at least there's that well, and also, too, andy said like when, when his sexuality was a question mark and her and pacey had that conversation last episode, and she was like no, I would not be okay with it. But then when shit actually hit the fan, she was like wait a second yeah, she defended him or stood by him, so I think that's a good point in saying you can change your mind. Yeah, you can change your mind.
Speaker 2:Nothing is ever set in stone that's right, well, and it's just like anything in life you're hypothetical yeah, until it happens isn't what's Like before you have kids.
Speaker 1:you say blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:And then you have kids and you're like oh, just kidding.
Speaker 1:Literally.
Speaker 2:Or you learn new things that you do, do that you would have never thought, and just in general in relationships in life, yeah, experience, and so that I thought, yeah, like Andy sort of coming to terms with with who she is, okay. So the episode ends with Joey and Jack breaking up.
Speaker 1:We talked about that one for 30 minutes, dang Okay. Well, let's go on episode 16, 16. Okay, this one's called be careful what you wish for Now. I didn't have a whole lot of notes on this one. I don't have as many.
Speaker 2:The summary is Dawson's surprise 16th birthday party goes awry when he and Andy show up drunk. Yep, okay, so, yes. So first of all, this opening scene Dawson's freaking out right before his birthday yeah, relatable, it doesn't matter, like if it's my kid, like my husband said to me yesterday. He said you know, your oldest is turning 17 this week. And I was like boy, you should know not to say that to me, cause then I just start. I'm like, oh my God, what is?
Speaker 1:your spiral. I love birthdays.
Speaker 2:I get very sad when my kids have birthdays.
Speaker 1:My friend Amber's like that and I'm not like that.
Speaker 2:No, it's not weird Cause I know several parents like that.
Speaker 2:And then really my own birthday. I don't mind that much. It's not so much getting older for me, it's like kind of what he talks about. I'm like, oh my god, what have I done this year, another year's gone by, have I done enough things? And I gotta do more stuff? And it's not just my birthday, it's like new year's and then my kids birthdays is like, have I done enough? Specific to parenting, oh, like, and it's always the answer is always no. Of course. We're never gonna say yes to that. I think I'm saying that to me. I was just just like oh my.
Speaker 2:God, the heart I.
Speaker 1:I. I was emotional when Caden turned 18, because that was a whole thing, but not I, it's weird. You know, my, my best friend Amber, and I would talk about this when our oldest were little and we had one kid you know we had one kid each and we would, we were young moms and I.
Speaker 1:She would get so sad every time there's the next phase, and I'd never did I would. I was always excited for the next thing. Like you know, when they start walking and they start talking and there's, you know, doing more, she would like long for what was back and I would just get more excited for what was like the new threshold. And I feel like I still kind of do that with parenting, like I don't really get super sad. I'm just like I mean I still kind of do that with parenting, like I don't really get super sad. I'm just like I mean it is kind of shocking and it's always kind of morbid because then it's like oh, they're getting older, that means I'm older, yep, yep. But I get why. I get why you're emotional. I get why you get emotional and I get why she does.
Speaker 2:And in my case it's not even I want time back. It really is. It is like a did I make the most of when they were seven, Because now they're not going to be seven.
Speaker 1:I always know my answer is no.
Speaker 2:And the answer is no, and I think it just makes me feel bad. And then it makes me sad because I'm like, well, I can't get that year back, even though there's plenty. And I'm like you, I've loved every phase my kids have been in more and more and more. Well, I didn't love babyhood, that's probably rose colored glasses and I.
Speaker 2:Really we have this in common. I really didn't like it when they were babies either with the exception of my daughter, who's turning 17 this week, and it was super hard because I was like a single mom. But like I think, like I associate so much closeness with that now, by the time, all the others came along.
Speaker 1:It was just chaotic.
Speaker 2:There's a baby in the middle of it like, yeah, you know, but like with her, it was like, yes, this is hard, but we're but we're kind of doing it, and each day was like a surprise that we were like making it, you know, um, and so that to me, but but would I want to do it again? No, I would not, um, no, thank you?
Speaker 1:no, thank you. I know and see, when caden was a baby, troy was deployed twice. I mean, troy was in afghanistan for six months, two times before caden turned two. Oh, yikes. So it and it's weird because you're doing it by yourself but not but you're not by yourself. Does that make sense? Sense? Yeah, it does Like, and so I'm still having to worry about this partner of mine that is in a war zone that I don't know like. You can't let yourself think of that, but then you have to because you're not where they are. It's weird, I don't know, that's weird. So, a lot of his baby hood, I, that's what I just associate with a lot of angst and stuff.
Speaker 2:Angst and stress.
Speaker 1:And, like you know and I, we didn't have family around. It was me and people you know, but, and I mean you were probably the same like you're just getting through the day.
Speaker 2:Every day was a win, Like, yeah, we did it.
Speaker 1:We made it like but I don't know don't know, I it, birthdays are weird, but you know anyway.
Speaker 2:So I related to how do we fucking yeah, dawson's birthday freaking out about that, um, but dawson just freaks out about everything he does, he does, and we've got pacey already kind of being sarcastic about the gay agenda in that opening, yes, which it was not bad because I didn't mind him. He's like oh yeah, because you know all the gay people are just coming along to ruin the world.
Speaker 2:That's, that's their plan you know, and it's just funny because like, wow, yeah, that's what some people still think. Oh, but dawson's dad is back. I was about to say how cute that he's there making breakfast for dawson's birthday come on dawson's dad, adorable, love him adorable. But I also could understand why gail was annoyed when she came into the kitchen and he was like standing there I know well, he didn't live there anymore, he doesn't live there and he's like it's like her son's birthday too, and here he was kind of just like common gearing yeah, um.
Speaker 2:But then I said, gail giving mitch a hard time about money, but also buying dawson a new car right, that's some bullshit. Which later they kind of remedy. But I was like you can't do both, you can't be like I need help with all the bills around here. Oh, I bought him. And how funny, like how specific, I bought him an Explorer. I got him an Explorer which is, first of all, it's such a like 1998 car, like I knew people in high school had. Explorers, and it was like the card.
Speaker 2:There weren't as many SUVs back then either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that wasn't a thing. Yeah, it wasn't a thing.
Speaker 2:So I thought that was funny.
Speaker 1:I rode in the back of a Ford, or it's Ford Explorer. Yeah, it's a Ford Explorer. Yeah, all the way from North Louisiana down to Destin, florida, in the back of a truck. Remember, I told you I rode like in the trunk of one.
Speaker 2:It was a Ford Explorer.
Speaker 1:Oh my Lord, no, it wasn't, it was a Bronco. Well, Bronco Okay, but still yeah, my friend Brad had one. And listen, we were all poor college kids and we were like we can take one car to get gas. We can all fit in this one. Danny, right With the suitcase, just squeeze you right in, and I was not, I was not, I was. I was in a, a larger body at the time, so it wasn't as easy to fold me up.
Speaker 2:I was so short. Anything for the trip.
Speaker 1:But hey, I was like we're in Get down there.
Speaker 2:All right, okay, so then we've got Abby and her friends. Oh yeah, abby's back, let's go, but like her and her friends right away whoever these little? Friends are these little minions of hers like where'd they come from?
Speaker 1:we've never seen before.
Speaker 2:There were two or three of them. There was two of them. Yeah, where'd they come from? And she and they're right away glamorizing oh yeah, they're tokenizing him, tokenizing jack. They're like oh, and your hair and oh, what's it like being? Oh, you're the first gay guy in capeside. Yeah, not true, but the first one that like was publicly out or something, and and he says to her a couple times throughout the episode, basically like why are you talking to me?
Speaker 1:yeah, I do not like you and she's like nobody likes me she's like.
Speaker 2:She's very aware I'm used to tokenizing and I said they make him seem like an object yeah, that's, that's what they were doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I feel, I feel, I think straight girls do that to gay guys a lot seriously yeah that's not okay I mean I I think we saw some of that in sex in the city.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, with their stanford gay best friends and the other guy, anthony where it was very like and and the characters, kind of the gay characters, embrace it, sort of like yeah, I am your gay best friend, which that's fine, that's fine. But there was a little bit of that with that too, like like feeling like jealous of who they were because they're so fabulous or whatever, right I?
Speaker 1:don't know well, and it's just you you need to. You need to appreciate a person for who they are. Not want to be with them because like.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying, that is right.
Speaker 1:Right. So anytime you do that, anytime you're like oh, I want to be their friend because they are X, Y, Z, I want to have a gay friend, or I want to have I don't know whatever friend, um that's tokenizing and shitty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's tokenizing and shitty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you need to have a friend because you want to be their friend, you're just their friend, period. Look, I love all my gay guy friends. They're lovely and wonderful. They're wonderful to have but I mean and just because friends are wonderful to have, of course. So you know anyway that was shitty. Yeah, that was, but it happens a lot. I think it happens a lot.
Speaker 2:It does. So we've got Andy then at her therapist who prescribes her a night of imperfection. She gives her, like, permission to, and of course it just happens to be a night that there's going to be a surprise party for Dawson and they got to take Dawson out, so he's not at his house because of the surprise party. So she prescribes her this, which is not the the worst thing a therapist could be like. Hey, no, perfect, but it was just kind of funny the way they did it. Um, and then Bessie, joey's sister.
Speaker 2:I loved her little moment of advice where she was basically telling her just focus on you yeah she's like you, out of a relationship with Dawson right into a relationship with Jack, like just find time for you, like don't rush into anything, don't put like your worth on other people. And I just thought that was very. But she says it in such a like Frank, direct way, like she's, she's caring. Of course she is, but it's not like overly like full house moment. It's like girl, like just be you, you're young, don't worry about those guys. Like just be you. And I was like yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny, though, as I was watching that, I was like, yeah, people should not jump right from one relationship into another. But then I was like but you know, sometimes, like my own instance, I had a really toxic relationship before Troy and I started dating. It was super bad, really bad. We broke up and I was like that's fucking it, I'm not, I'm done, I'm moving away from here as soon as I'm done with this teaching job, which I fucking hate. I hate living here. I'm leaving. The whole reason I stayed where I stayed was for this guy. And of course, we break up and then I meet what I already knew, troy, but we like remet, if that makes sense. And I remember in my 22 year old brain being like Nope, you can't have a relationship with this guy because you just got out of one.
Speaker 2:Nope, but then it was like the right, you know what I mean and especially in a toxic situation, sometimes having a person there does help you, it does Well, and you realize what you don't want, right, right, if you're there. If you're just sitting there on your own trying to make it on your own, you do have more of a tendency to go back. I know I mean extreme example, but the guy I dated before I got pregnant with Amelia- who was not her father.
Speaker 2:We'd been dating for years and we were just not a good couple.
Speaker 1:But it was one of those things where it's like no one was really bad on either side.
Speaker 2:It just wasn't.
Speaker 1:Wasn't yeah.
Speaker 2:I swear, if I had not gotten pregnant with my daughter, I probably would have like, still been with him and gotten married and got divorced one day or just been really, really unhappy. And I didn't know until I had a baby with somebody else and was like, oh shit, like that's not what I want and we're still friends to this day. But I remember when my daughter was like baby, baby, he asked me if I wanted to go to lunch, cause sometimes we would still hang out, cause we were still friends and whatever. Before they even brought us the menus to the table, he said he thought we should start dating again and you were like, and by then I had literally had a whole ass baby. Yeah, without him who was there? You're like I was like what, what?
Speaker 1:like I'm not the same, yeah I'm that totally different person and I said it diplomatically, and then we like ate lunch.
Speaker 2:Oh, how awkward. This is really weird, and that was the end of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's a very extreme example. But like sometimes to not be in that relationship, even if you don't stay with the next person you're with or whatever. It helps you kind of get over that hump. So her advice is good. Work on you.
Speaker 1:But that's what I was like. These are the random things that pop into my head because I have attention problems. And so, as I was watching, I was like, oh yeah, like, and I think sometimes too, when you're in a toxic relationship or even not a toxic one, even, like you said, where it's just you're like, well, now there's this other person that comes along, that is, it's a reminder different.
Speaker 2:And that's okay. It's a reminder that, like there are other people you know, especially at this age, when you're young, when you're young, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:The world is your oyster.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean, it's harder the older you get to meet people and find quality.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:But when you're in high school or whatever there's your peers all around you.
Speaker 1:I was listening to our friends talk about dating apps. Okay, oh. I'm scared I was like, wow, like there are all these ways to meet people, but it's hard, because I was like, what about filters? Right, like you know, like are you going to meet people?
Speaker 2:but it's hard because I was like what about?
Speaker 1:filters right, like you know right, and like are you gonna meet the right like the? And they were like no, sometimes they look different and then you're like well, that's not what I thought. Yeah, or for I'm not gonna say their name I know who our friend who put themselves on multiple apps and nobody, nobody answered and like nobody swiped or right or liked, and it's nobody.
Speaker 2:Nobody, I think. I don't know. She shut that right down. She did I.
Speaker 1:I'm wondering if there was some, I think there was a thing that wasn't right on, you know anyway.
Speaker 2:Either way, it doesn't make you feel how did we get on this tangent?
Speaker 1:all right, here we go okay so um so andy pacey dawson going out they're going out.
Speaker 2:But also I said Ty is still here. Question mark who cares about fucking Ty? Moving on.
Speaker 1:I don't like him in all these episodes.
Speaker 2:Me either.
Speaker 1:Okay, so they go out. Andy's body glitter.
Speaker 2:I wrote that down too.
Speaker 1:That was me back in? Oh my God, because I was in college. When this season came out, I was with my girl. Out I was with my girl. Let me tell the body.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so she had like this tight red dress kind of more revealing than normal for Andy.
Speaker 1:And then all this body glitter across her chest, on her shoulders. It looked really cool. I love me some body glitter. Are you surprised? I love it, no it made me.
Speaker 2:That's what we need for Gaga, oh hello At least, at least we're going to have we're going to have so much, so much, much. So, yeah, I love that too, and I loved how she was sitting in the back of the cop.
Speaker 2:First of all, I know they're driving a police car to the speakeasy pacey's driving his dad or his brother's car he always steals his dad's car, yeah, so it's kind of funny it is, and then dawson's in front and then andy's in the back and she's like, oh my god, is this what it feels like to get hauled off to jail? Turn on the sirens and she's going completely crazy about it and Pacey's just like could you call? Like calm down, andy. She's like no, this is my one wild night. Have you written in a cop durable? No, I know, the seats are like plastic.
Speaker 1:I've never been in the back of a cop car okay, but I did not in a weird way.
Speaker 1:I this I won't go into the whole story, but I was walking home at like 2 30 in the morning down a street because the toxic relationship, we got into this horrible fight and I was leaving his place and walking back to mine, okay, which was fucking stupid, yeah, but I wanted out of there because it was a really bad place. And I had to go and a cop, a super young cop, pulled over and was like, do you need to ride? And I was drunk, so I was fucking scared, but he wasn't worried about that at that moment.
Speaker 2:Were you 21? No, okay.
Speaker 1:So I get in the car and I'm crying and he was like where do you live? He's like are you okay? Where are you coming from? And then I realized, oh, he's making sure I'm not like some domestic violence situation or like but anyway, he, when he this gets funnier, it's not going to stay dark.
Speaker 1:So he brings me home to my apartment and he's like, if you know, if something else happens, like you can call, like here's my name. Blah, blah, blah, I get out of the car. My roommates were standing outside smoking and they see me getting out the cop car and they were like what is that? Are you okay? I was like everything's fine, like they, just first of all they're panicking because they see a cop car pulling into our apartment complex at 2 30 in the morning. And then here I come, like, just like, hop it out. Bye, thanks for the ride.
Speaker 2:Oh, oh, my God, that's so great, so I don't know about the backseat. I just I'm at the front seat. Yeah, I, I could be totally wrong about that, but I feel like You're probably right.
Speaker 2:Cause they probably got like they, it's like bodily clean up. I'll ask Natalie Okay, every man in the backseat of a golf cart. Well, maybe don't ask her that, just ask her. I'll ask her. She'll tell me so yeah, so I loved, I loved Andy's whole thing, and then so we can go back to Andy and Dawson singing the blues in a little bit, because then it cuts back to the party. And fucking Abby's there who invited her. Nobody likes her.
Speaker 1:Why is?
Speaker 2:opinions. She's there and so, but then Abby kind of has a good point.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:Ridiculousness about how everyone well she says everyone's bisexual anyway, but it's her way of kind of saying like. I think what she means is what I say all the time is, most people's sexuality is gray yeah. And that's what she's, and that's pretty much what she's saying. She's saying it's Puritan culture that makes everyone hide it Facts, and I was like like, okay, abby, it's true.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, she was doing all that just to get, just to kiss her, so that she could be like, see, he's not gay now, and then he's like I'm gayer than ever, yeah exactly that was great, but I mean all the things she was saying.
Speaker 2:I was like I know that's true, actually, and and that's why even jack kind of like he was like wait, maybe, yeah, maybe you're right or whatever, yeah, so then, okay, back to Dawson and Andy singing the blues, adventures and babysitting. That's what it reminded me of.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I wonder if they did that on purpose. Maybe they did Because you know, he's like a big movie guy.
Speaker 2:So maybe they threw that in on purpose. That's probably why. But why did he sing two verses?
Speaker 1:So he sings, it just kept fucking going. And then Andy sings, I know, and they should have just cut it.
Speaker 2:And then he's back and I was like oh my God, Please stop singing the blues, Dawson. And then he admits in the middle of that that he knows about his surprise party Right.
Speaker 1:And Pacey was like, eh Well, surprises are hard. Look guys, Katie's birthday is coming up soon and I was going to throw her a surprise party. And I think I fucking stressed her husband out so bad, because I was like Katie's schedule is insane, so planning a surprise party for her, I knew, would be really hard and I was like I can't not have input from somebody in her family, that is an adult, which would be Brant yes, so one person.
Speaker 1:So I had messaged him. I was like, hey, I want to throw a surprise party for Katie at my house, but I don't know what y'all have planned, I don't know about her. And he messaged me back and he's like, oh my God, like I just know. I instantly stressed him out and I was like, okay, nevermind, I'll just tell her, just have her over, it'll be fine. I'm just going to tell her we're having a party, which actually I think is better anyway, because then I could invite everybody Katie wanted to invite and I don't know all the details of the party.
Speaker 1:I mean you pretty much do.
Speaker 2:And it'll be fun, it'll be a good time, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So surprise parties are hard to plan, is my point. They really are.
Speaker 2:They're really difficult. Recently I went to a surprise party for a friend, jen. I'm not a mess and Jen with a G and she was surprised.
Speaker 1:He did a great job. Way to go, tom St Marie. He did such a good job. Oh sorry, just put your government out there.
Speaker 2:I was like Jen with a G, you're like St Marie, he had said, and I thought this was so funny. This is such a husband thing to say and do he's like she has no idea because she's just pissed at me. Oh yeah, she thinks I blew it yeah, for her birthday, and so which is great for him. Which is great for him because I bet he got accolades. Yeah, accolades, yes, yes, exactly, but he was like she doesn't suspect it because she's just so pissed. So pissed that, like she was too.
Speaker 1:I remember, and on the inside I was like, oh my god't suspect it, because she's just so pissed, so pissed, that like she was too, I remember. And on the inside I was like, oh my God, I don't want to tell her so bad. Yeah, like it's okay, don't be upset, don't be upset, don't be upset.
Speaker 2:It's coming, jen, it's coming, don't worry, he really didn't fuck up, I am different.
Speaker 1:Okay, I, I like surprises, but not like that. Like if you had a surprise party for me and I couldn't like make sure I was like dressed up and cute and stuff for the night. I would not like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but see there's ways around.
Speaker 1:I know he did a good job because she was dressed all cute, because her girlfriends took her out before. But, like I also, like you know, I have a friend whose partner will surprise him with a trip and be like I packed you a bag, let's go. No, I wouldn't mind if somebody said, hey, we're going on a trip from this date to this date and here's the weather and occasions you need to pack for, but I'm not telling you where we're going. Like I need. I like surprises, but I need a little bit of info.
Speaker 1:A little bit of info, yeah, Because I don't want to feel unprepared Like. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, like if you're having a party for me, I want to look cute.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I might want to wear a costume. So Exactly.
Speaker 2:Or a wig or something.
Speaker 1:Right, like you won't get the most out this form of all her favorite things, number one cause I knew people would be like I want to bring her something blah, blah blah and then it's just nice. But I told people they have to dress up like one of her favorite things. And there's wait for this and I said you can be as creative as you want, it's going to be fantastic.
Speaker 2:It's going to be great I can't wait to see what you wear, oh okay, okay, well, we'll find out. I have a few options, anyway, okay, but I did say the scene where they're singing the blues and that whole bar scene. I said that must have been a fun scene to record. Oh yeah, I bet that was a blast, so much fun. So Andy and Dawson when Pacey's not sitting there, he's in the bathroom or something they convince the waitress to give them rum and Coke, so 90s. So somehow Pacey doesn't realize they're drinking rum and Coke. He would smell that. But he's like oh my God, you guys have been drinking. And then Andy kind of scolds the waitress for serving them.
Speaker 2:She's right though she's right. She's like, oh, you could get shut down 100%. She does, and so Pacey's trying to like, just get them out of there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And back to the house, and meanwhile Jen and Ty, okay, ooh, they're in Dawson's new car, they're in Dawson's new car, which apparently they ended up taking back. So that's even. And then Ty does this whole, blaming her for making him feel sexual about her.
Speaker 1:That is the church right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and she says that, and she says that, I know, and he's like well, that's just, I'm fighting this, but like it still makes.
Speaker 1:But he's not fighting it yeah. He's not saying yeah, yeah, so he basically like stops whatever.
Speaker 1:And then, like I mean, on one hand, like at the end of the episode, when he comes back and they're having this whole conversation, like we can't see each other and blah, blah, blah. Um, on one hand, though, like that's how he, that's what he believes and that's what he stands for, so like as I don't like it, but he's being honest, yeah, and she doesn't agree, so he's kind of right, like they don't need to be seeing each other anymore no, I mean I agree and I don't understand why she's fighting so hard for it yeah, it's kind of weird but again it's jen and I feel for her and she.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I love this line from abby. She's talking about joey and dawson and she says if they didn't spend so much time contemplating their name, yeah, for real, I love that I was like, that's such a good line and then, um, when dawson's back and he goes off on everyone, basically, and then joey pushes him into his cake because he's being annoying and she's mad.
Speaker 2:So then joey goes to take him upstairs after he's berated his mom, his dad, joey pacey, jen, everybody in the whole room. She says do you know anything about the blues, joey? And she's like more than I care to admit.
Speaker 1:I thought that was a good line, but also like let's talk about their drunkenness, like they're acting silly and stuff, but they were not slurring their words, like he was very articulate.
Speaker 2:He was.
Speaker 1:Maybe you should get a job, dad. If he had that many drinks, he would be like you're stupid. I don't like you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:Right, but they did puke in this one. Okay, they did, but did you notice? And the reason I notice all this is because I did way too much underage drinking and not like that's bad. I'm not saying that's a good thing, you're not bragging, no, but I'm not saying that's a good thing You're not bragging, no, but like after after he drank that much and he was that sick, yeah, puking multiple times. He would not. Him and Andy were again having a conversation like they're sober Right.
Speaker 1:Just because you throw up does not mean, your body is done.
Speaker 2:Right, I agree.
Speaker 1:And then he's like laying in the bed talking to Joey, like totally sober again yeah.
Speaker 2:I hate that. Yeah, I hate that. Yeah, I hate it too. Um, yeah, so they were puking, but you're right, they were still too cognizant yeah with it for that to actually be true, right? Um, thankfully pacey drove, so that was good. Um, I did like when mitch and gail came together at the end and they decided okay, we're gonna take the car back, let's get him in a used car and let's have him pay for some of it. Like I thought that that was good when Joey says because she catches Abby and.
Speaker 2:Jack kissing. She says I always thought, if you went straight again it would be Cindy Crawford.
Speaker 1:That's so dumb.
Speaker 2:Everything is wrong with that sentence Because attraction has nothing to do with what a person looks like. Also, neither does like sexual preference and go straight again. Anyway, and I was. I was like wow, wow. But then joey does say no one wants to feel alone, everyone wants to feel normal, which she?
Speaker 1:was relating to herself. Well, when you're a teenager, everybody wants to feel yeah encapsulated it is um.
Speaker 2:And then, oh yeah, all the stuff with ty and jen which we talked to. Ty says this has nothing to do with you, this is me. And I'm like, yeah, true, you know. And then jen kind of like shuts the door on him. And then, when dawson approaches, joey kind of like me at that restaurant when I had my baby, and he was like I want things to be how they were and we should try again. And she says I just need to like work on myself. And I was like, in this instance, yes, you do, because you can't just run back to that. So those were, that's it, I know.
Speaker 1:I have to pee, so bad too, I do too.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, thanks for being here for our double episode. We did it and we'll see you next time here on Generation Inbetween. Bye, guys.
