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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek, S2 E9 & E10: The Election and High-Risk Behavior
Join us as we discuss our rewatch of Dawson's Creek Season 2, Episode 9 titled The Election and Episode 10, titled High-Risk Behavior.
We're rewatching Dawson's Creek on Hulu (as of March 2025).
Andie's dreams of becoming sophomore class president are shattered and Pacey defends her honor via the school's intercom system in Season 2, Episode 9 of Dawson's Creek. Then, in Episode 10, Jen tries to help Dawson be "more" of a teenager, while Joey paints Jack in the nude.
It's all on our Dawson's Creek rewatch!
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Hi everybody and welcome back to our Nostalgic, or Problematic series where we are talking about Dawson's Creek. We are on season two, episode nine, and we're going to start doing two first. So we realize it's going to take us 80 hundred years, if we do not do that, to make it through the entire show. So funny disclaimer if you follow us on social media, you already know some of this. We had three plus hours of tech problems yesterday night. We tried to record at night for our special guests. Didn't happen, thought we recorded this Dawson's already. Well, there is video of it, yeah, so we didn't imagine it. Well, no, we were here. The sound did not work. The sound, there's nothing, it's blank. So we've already talked about these episodes we have. So now we're re-talking about them, but I feel like we'll probably have some new things that pop up. But anyway, that talking about them. But I feel like we'll probably have some new things that pop up. But anyway, that's true, just full stop. Honesty with you guys. We've already talked about these and it didn't record our voices, it did not. So here we are. Maybe our fans should do like a caption this, you know, and it's like a video of us talking, but you can't hear us. It's like Danny, I just had pizza for breakfast. Or like dubbed voices oh god, right, that'd be so funny if we did like the power ranger. Like, oh my god, so funny, that'd be, really that would be funny. It might turn out okay. But, yes, so we've already talked about this and the name of the episode is the election.
Speaker 1:Yep, what is the summary? All right, so this episode summary is. In their bid for student council, andy and Joey face a vicious smear campaign. Jen tries to get Dawson to embrace being a teenager. That sentence is weird. Did I miss a word? Jen tries, no, no, because, because it's a, it's all one sentence. Uh, huh, what. Anyway, that's what it's right. Oh, it's kind of a run on. If it is a little sentence, ok, yes, what? Anyway, that's what it's right. Oh, it's kind of a run-on. If it is a little sentence, okay, yes. So right before, even the like opening number, they we've got a brady bunch reference, yeah, which I loved. I thought that was really fun, um, and I said this yesterday when we recorded. But here we go, that's actually going to be the case with everything we're about to say.
Speaker 1:I wrote down opening song lyrics because I was going to look them up, but we did determine the words hearts in barrels, hearts in barrels. I thought it was hearts in buckets. For a minute I thought it was hearts in buckets, it's okay. So, again, wouldn't recommend listening to it, but there are some interesting lyrics. If you're watching with us I'm sure you've heard parts of it. It's terrible, it's bad. We need Paula Cole, we do, okay.
Speaker 1:So then the regular part of the show begins. What the funny thing Dawson said in that little intro was when Dawson said I am raw and dark. Yeah, no, sir. No, I'm sorry, dawson, oh, you're not Never going to be. Well, okay.
Speaker 1:So then we've got andy and pacey, and I wrote down that I just thought it was so cute. They were in the school halls and I said they were canoodling, canoodling, canoodling, holding hands and just like. Like, it's just, they're so comfortable around each other. Well, it's just cute, it's adorable, it's just precious, it's puppy love. Well, at first love, whatever you want to call it. First love, young love, young love, teen love, whatever, because we're old, married ladies. So I don't be walking down halls canoodling or anywhere. Probably Sorry, it's true, but it was cute. When it was Andy and Pacey I was like you go, you too it was, but it was cute when it was Andy and Pacey, I was like you go, you two. It was Okay.
Speaker 1:So then Dawson, you know, is now writing this new script. Yeah, with this money he won, but, like Joey's not going to produce it, so he's asked Jen to be his producer. But Jen is kind of got some tough love for him and she's basically like if you want to write about the teenage experience, you have to live it. Because her accusation is that he's like not really like doing normal teen stuff, like trouble and rebelling and having sex and like all the things. Yeah, and I wrote down like later in my notes let me see what my words were. I wrote down like why do we always have to change the vanilla? Like quote-unquote good teens or people just in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you know, I think of sandy from greece like, just let them be, he's fine, he's fine with it. Yeah, he didn't feel like he's missing out right now, but he is okay with it. Like, if he doesn't want to be doing all the things, that's okay. Like not everybody has to be out partying and drinking. Yeah, and this whole episode was that because people were coming at him for that and then coming at him because in the script the characters don't have sex right and everyone who reads it's like you know they really should like have sex. That would be more interesting, that would be more intriguing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think I agreed with him when he said, well, it's more interesting to have them, not because every movie you watch that's what happens especially around this time. Oh yeah, I'm thinking of like the teen movies and I mean even before that, like hello porkies, yeah, yeah, exactly, well, I don't know candles, I haven't seen porkies yet, but I'm gonna take your word for it. That's, that's gonna be a summer movie, okay, yeah, oh, I can't wait. I'm oh, you probably can. You're like, wait as long as it's not good, but we'll get there. You should do it after my birthday. So I'm a little older, yeah, I'm mature enough to handle the content. Oh my gosh, yeah, so I thought that was funny. Okay, so here we go, mitch.
Speaker 1:Mitch comes over to the house to help Gail with some plumbing in the kitchen. Fix the plumbing, fix the plumbing, and the plumbing goes a little crazy. There's water squirting everywhere, does it now, and he's in a white tight t-shirt, which first of all gets all wet, yes, but then he takes it off. He takes his shirt off, yes. Now I'm telling you, somebody on that writing team knew what they were doing this season, because there are thirst traps all over the place that were not there season one like they, they capitalized on him being an attractive dad, sure, but this season they're like, oh right, like he's hot and people think he's hot. Yeah, that's the feedback we're getting. So let's really like double down on this.
Speaker 1:Was mitch like was? Was mitch like the, the first like daddy of that time frame? He may have been, because I can't think of any other like attractive, like quote-unquote dads, quote-unquote. I mean, he wasn't, I don't know why. I feel like, you know, not to make a negative connotation, but like the objectification of dads was not really a thing. It wasn't until Until Mitch. It wasn't Even good looking ones, right, they were just like, well, that's an old dad, but they didn't. They didn't cast a lot of good looking, that's true, they did with women, middle-aged women, to be moms, but they didn't like, not that they were bad looking, they just weren't like next level, right, hot, like they were attractive, but they weren't like hot. Yeah, because there's a difference? Sure, there's a difference. Which one is Mitch? Well, we know.
Speaker 1:But also let's talk about the weirdness about them banging away on the kitchen table and Dawson coming in. Yeah, hello, first of all, their bedroom is right down the hall. It's their house. Like if you know your kid's about to come home, maybe not, like that's weird to me. I'm sorry. Yeah, like not caring, like if you're just mid-thrust and your teenage son and there's like no wall, it's like all open, like yeah.
Speaker 1:But then I thought the camera work was weird, because dawson sees what they're doing and it registers and he still stands there and like has this weird look on his face which I guess is supposed to translate to like oh yay, I'm happy my parents are, whatever, but like I would be running screaming for the hills. Yeah, I mean, like I don't care what kind of sex positive house you live in. I'm pretty sure most teenagers don't want to see their parents banging Right, right, yeah, totally, totally. Like if they know it's happening, fine, but seeing their bits and pieces flopping together, no, sorry, I don't want to think of anyone's bits and pieces, let alone like people related to me or like my own kids seeing mine Like no, thank you. Oh, no flopping. So that was just odd.
Speaker 1:Everybody's listening like man. They've got some boring sex life. I'm like no canoodling, ever. No canoodling, no flopping, no flopping parts. Nothing, nothing at all. Everything is buttoned up all the time. Personal space is recognized 24, 7.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I think we talked about this before. Did you ever watch Arrested Development? No, I didn't. Well, there's a character named Tobias who's a never nude. Even when he showers he wears jean cutoffs. Oh my God, get out. So like his wife comes in and is like kind of arguing with him and she pulls his towel because he's got a towel wrapped around his waist and he's like oh no, and he like he's wearing cutoffs. Oh God, that's so funny. That's how I feel. That's how I feel, that's great.
Speaker 1:Ok, so before we get too far, because this is all about like class office, did you ever run for class office? I never did. I did participate in student government and like helped. What does that mean? I think I just went to the meetings and helped with prom and committees. So you were on committees and stuff, committees and things, but I was never an officer. Yeah Well, you know my story, but I'll tell it. So I did run for class office and it was because it's me and I have horrible timing for lots of things in life. Nothing can just be normal.
Speaker 1:The election actually. Well, I think like the campaign started For like you have like two weeks or something, you hang posters and stuff, but the day I had to give the speech was like a week after me and my serious little boyfriend broke up and I've told you all about him before. We were on a break when I switched on some boy from another school and then didn't tell him about it, yeah. So guess what? Karma came back to bite me in the ass because I had to stand up in front of our whole senior class which was not small, there's like 500 people, I'd say and give my little speech and all his little friends were sitting right in the front staring glaring at me. Uh, I did not win, but I did get into a runoff with another girl and I think if I wouldn't have been in the place I was, um, I may have won. So you kind of had a smear campaign of your own that I did myself A smear campaign against yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, because that was also, I think, the same week that I slapped that his friend, so, but I would have thought that would have earned you votes, not if you were on his side. That's true, I mean it was close, I mean I was in a's. True, I mean it was close, I mean I was in a runoff, I mean the fact that you're right. So if none of that had happened, that other drama you would have won. I think I would have. Yeah, I think I think the, the people, I think the people who didn't vote for me that made it close, would have if it. If it was the other way around, I agree, but it's fine guys, okay, neither here nor there.
Speaker 1:Ancient history, I know Ancient history, okay, so I speaking of them, the people running against each other. So if you haven't watched it and you're just listening, andy decides to run for class president, sophomore class president, and then she gets Joey to be her running mate, but Joey's very like hesitant because she's like, oh, they're gonna drag like my family history through the mud, like her dad and everything, but andy's like all positive about it. Um, so the first little inkling that we get that there probably is going to be some smearing of family things is when abby and chris wolf, who are running together. Yeah, um, go to joey's restaurant to talk about their campaign because it's always deserted there, according to Abby. And they go there and Abby just kind of gets nasty with Joey and Joey pours a pitcher of water over Abby's head and like instantly drenched. It was a huge pitcher of water. That was hilarious. I know we should not validate that.
Speaker 1:And Abby had those little baby curls. It was a huge pitcher of water. I mean, that was hilarious. I know we should not validate that behavior. Abby had those little, like those little baby curls. Oh yeah, I did like her hair in this episode, but they were like. It reminded me of my girls that have their really, really curly hair. Hers was like curly and iron, but like as soon as it's wet, it's like instantly flat for like two minutes and then for like two minutes and then it just kind of creeps back up. Yeah Well, hers was definitely curling iron. Hers was curling iron, so hers wasn't going to come back.
Speaker 1:So have you ever put water on somebody's face? Put water, have you ever thrown water on somebody's face? No, dump water on somebody's head Never. Okay, I've never done that, danny. I've never smacked anyone. I've never punched anyone, pulled anybody's hair. No, have you. Yeah, remember, I told you the only fight I was in oh, that's right, real fight yeah, I grabbed her ponytail. So the smack was the friend, the real fight was the ponytail. The smack was a boy and I've slapped a few boys across the face. Sure, that's fair. So you know, you know you're Like, if that has something to do with it, because I don't, even even when I'm my maddest, I don't ever feel like physically intimidated, necessarily.
Speaker 1:It's like the small dog syndrome. I was going to say that, but I didn't want you to get offended. Probably my littlest dog is the meanest and loudest and will bite your ass. Yeah, see, that's probably it. My big ones that could actually hurt you would never bite you. The thing is I don't, I am not a violent person, even though my dad's nature and I will, I will, I will shrink away from confrontation. I do not like it, but if I have to do it, it will happen. But there are some things that will send me over the edge. Like if you call me a slut, then you're getting slapped across the face, fair, some things that will send me over the edge. Like if you call me a slut, then you're getting slapped across the face. Fair enough, just saying Fair enough. You will, even if I jump up and slap you, even if I need a step stool to do it, I will do it, but anyway, okay.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about, like the Chris thing. It's so funny to me, because it's so high school, how people could be like all cool with each other one minute and hanging out. They were all at his house, they spent the night there and then all of a sudden he doesn't like them now and he's against them. He wants to tear them down. Yeah, so high school, like tell everyone. And then like and that's like what was him and Joey and Andy? But then it's like him and Jen aren't even close, like a thing, or well, I guess. Yeah, because he comes later to the auditions for joey's thing, and it's like well, they decided that when they were together they were remember. He was like are you cool with us? Like it's just a casual hookup? Yeah, but I agree with you, that is so. It's so high school where it's like it's so accurate, but not not anymore, but best friends again, but also not anymore.
Speaker 1:Hot and cold, yeah, cold, and like strange, like alliances, like him and Abby, I know it's actually a great alliance, I know To be honest, but it's like, oh, where did that come from? But also, why is he sweating her so hard? I don't know, like, if he's like this person who sleeps around all the time and gets all this action, why is he so desperate for her? Well, she's probably hard to get. And also, do we really think that abby would have been like you're gross? No, because she's been like hot to trot for lots of boys and men around. Yeah, I don't, I don't think that's very believable. Yeah, unless she's just abby knows how to push people's buttons and maybe she knows that by like, kind of acting like she's not attracted to him, he's going to be more attracted to her. It's almost like a game. Oh, like, yeah, like she does think he's attractive, but she, I don't know, I can't tell, I can't tell with her or that storyline, okay.
Speaker 1:So now we have to get to the part where jen is trying to convince dawson to steal. Yeah, but it's not like something Dawson would want. And she even says she's like oh, this will benefit me too, because it's like a lipstick. Yeah, why do they always steal lipsticks? Because that's what Abby stole last time. I guess it's easy to steal a lipstick, maybe. Maybe that's just like what people stole.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's little, it fits in your pocket. It's little, it fits in your pocket. You could almost, except that it's packaged. You could almost have like, but they didn't used to be. Yeah, so you can almost have the disbelief oh, I had this, this is mine Like you almost could back then. Yeah, because they can't like go back on a video camera and say, no, we saw you put it in your pocket, katie. Yeah, you need to tell your shoplifting story. So I told this yesterday when there was no sound. We don't have to keep saying that they know that. Yeah, I know. Okay, by the way, guys, I already told this story Because nobody heard it, but only Dani knows. So now you're going to know. So I have two shoplifting stories.
Speaker 1:Yes, the first, when I was like four or five, is just what Jen described in the episode, where she's like didn't you ever want a piece of candy? Steal a candy. It was like those little caramels that are individually plastic wrapped. I wanted one. My mom said no, so I remember sticking it in my waistband. I get all the way home and I either unwrapped it right in front of her or she was on to me and like, paying attention, but she saw me unwrap it and before I could put it in my mouth, she grabbed it, put it back in the wrapper and took me back to the store. Nice, and I had to, like give it back, which, like, obviously crying I was crying, I had to say sorry, oh, they should let you have it. I, I think they tried and I was like, no, you can just throw that right in the trash. Oh yeah, okay, no, she can't have it, which I get you know. But you obviously didn't learn your lesson, because I did not.
Speaker 1:Because then, okay, so very high school, I had this, I wouldn't even call her a frenemy. She was just someone that didn't like me from day one. I transferred schools and like was making friends and we had the same circle of friends and she, just from day one, was like, uh-uh, this girl, no, okay, like, did not like me, actively, spoke bad about me, whatever. But it was one of those things where it's like everyone loved her and everyone loved me, but like she hated it anyway. It was weird Really Everybody loved you. I wish I've never had that kind of like well, I shouldn't say everybody, cause she didn't. I mean Katie's, like everybody loved me, but also her Right. So let's put it this way I did not have that. It wasn't like either of us was like a hated person Got it Like we were sort of you know how they say, sometimes people rub you the wrong way because they're like you. I don't know if it was that sort of thing where we were similar, but anyway, I mean it lasted into college, like we went to the same college and obviously you don't have to run in the same circles and we didn't, but anytime I would run into her, she I wasn't there or like say something nasty, damn, yeah.
Speaker 1:Anyway, this person, for some reason we're at lunch one day and she's talking about how easy it is to, because at that time you would go get your disposable cameras developed. This was like late nineties and you'd go pick up your photos. Well, at Meijer so many people. Meijer is similar to like a Walmart or Target. It's regional in the Midwest. You would go pick up. There were so many people picking up pictures. They were literally just in like big bins alphabetized, and you would pay for it at the front and you'd grab it and you'd just go pay for it Just like anything else. So she was like, oh, you can just like put it in your purse, like it's not got a scanner. So my dumb ass is like, oh, I'm going to try that. Oh my God what. This is the person that I'm taking advice from Right. So I go by myself.
Speaker 1:Purse is completely empty. I still remember the shirt I had on. It was this tank top. I loved I should find a picture. It was like black with like little red roses on it, this little tank top. And I have this black purse. Literally nothing in it. No money, no wallet.
Speaker 1:I think I was so carrying my car keys because I had driven there. No wallet or nothing, nothing. Where's your license? I guess I left it in the car. I have no idea. I I just thought, oh, like I don't know so, so not slick.
Speaker 1:I find my pictures. I look there's like nobody around, stick them in my purse. But then I'm like, oh, I can't just like walk out. That's like super obvious. So I start walked around the store.
Speaker 1:Well, I noticed this guy, kind of like I keep seeing them and I start to get creeped out. He's just in, like a flannel shirt, whatever, maybe in his 20s, and I was like, oh, I'm starting to feel weird, so I'm like I better just go. So I go to walk out. He steps in front of me with like a security badge he had seen me take. Yeah, he was just gonna see if I was gonna, like, actually take them out, or was I gonna take them up front and pay for them? Well then, when he saw me walking out, he stopped me, took me this little back room. I was 17, so they call my dad anyway.
Speaker 1:So it's this whole thing where they're like we're not gonna press charges, but you're on this like watch list. Now if you ever take so much as like a pack of gum, black or whatever, like we will arrest you. Blah, blah, blah. My parents were getting ready to go on a trip, so like my dad came really quick to like bail me out of my jail and he was so upset and then they let. I don't think he ever told my mom, or if he did, she just didn't say anything to me, but she would have. So so both mom and dad are like man, we're raising a klepto. Well, you're not a very good one. I'm horrendous. You got caught both times. Attempted twice, got caught both times.
Speaker 1:Well, the only thing I used to steal and it was on a regular basis, oh God. First of all, I also used to steal money from my mom all the time. This is so bad, and I think my sister did it too, but my mom would go. Remember when you would have to go to the bank and like cash checks to get cash, right, right In the eighties, my mom would go and like get a whole bunch of cash to last for like weeks or whatever.
Speaker 1:I don't know what she did. I I'm assuming she like used it to go get groceries or whatever. My family used to use cash for that stuff too. That's before we had nobody used credit cards to pay for groceries. We didn't have debit cards. There wasn't debit cards. That was the difference, right, right. So, like a debit card, now it literally takes my money immediately, which is great, but we didn't have that. So you either paid cash or you wrote a check and not everywhere took checks, correct? So, anyways, I would wait until she would get this whole the, the big like deposit slip full of cash and I would just go in there and slip myself a 20 here and there. Listen, I, she never knew I did it. Oh my gosh Right, because she got so much at once. That was my regular basis of stealing money, okay, and I validated it in my head somehow, I don't know.
Speaker 1:But when I was in college, I went to college in a rural, like small town in Louisiana and we had to go grocery shopping at like a super Walmart. That was like what we had. Well, my roommate, beth and I discovered when we would go in to go grocery shopping, we would get a donut from the bakery and a Coke and we would have ourself a nice little snack as we grocery shop and then have to pay for it because the donut was gone and so was the Coke, and we'd just throw the Coke bottle away, throw the donut wrapper away, never paid for it. I probably owe them $400 in Cokes and Donuts, in donuts and Cokes. Yeah, I'm serious, that is crazy. But don't worry, walmart's not hurting. No, it was kind of a stick it to the man moment. Is that what we're going to go with? Yeah, okay, I love it. I love it. You're like even back then I was showing Walmart what's up, even though they never did it three times as much money for me. Yeah, then they're not. They're not suffering guys. That's a good point, that's a really good. That wasn't why I was doing it. I was doing it cause I was hungry and broke. Exactly Right. It's like, yeah, exactly, anyway, all right, moving on from our klepto past. Yes, let's move on from that, okay.
Speaker 1:So when all goes awry when they're doing their speeches and Andy runs to the bathroom, why were there so many flyers in the bathroom? It was like flyer wallpaper was crazy. Have you ever been in a bathroom where there's that much information? I've never been in any anywhere ever that there were that many flyers. I mean, it was every free surface and they're all over the floor. And I'm like what the hell? Do you think it's because it was the election episode, was it all? No, no, no, no, it was just just stuff cluttering. It was just random shit. It was distracting from the scene, I know, because it's like where are they? They're in a bathroom. What's happening? I did like in that scene so, andy, because Abby is like nasty during their campaign speeches. So Andy runs to the bathroom crying.
Speaker 1:So Pacey comes in and he says to her like every family's dysfunctional, it's the 90s. Yeah, I thought that was really really cute, like, because, like that, the 90s, I feel like on tv was the first time they really showed what a lot of families were going through, like you know, you think back even in the 80s, we see, like the nuclear family or you know, whatever. The 90s was the first time. I was like, yeah, some people got fucked up, shit going on, like uh. And here it is like right, not everybody I mean most people don't have that quote-unquote traditional family that you saw on sitcoms, right, right. So I think I think that was a plus, I thought that was really good. Yeah, that was really good, yeah, that was really good.
Speaker 1:Okay, so then we have to talk about this phrase I've never heard until this episode. Oh God, I know when Mitch is talking to Dawson and Dawson's like yeah, basically like, oh, you and mom are working things out. I saw you, whatever, whatever, mitch is like no, it was a sex slip. That just sounds hilarious Sex slip. That just sounds hilarious Sex slip. And he goes no, dawson, it was a sex slip. That's your midget voice. It's so hard for Katie to do a low voice. Oh my gosh, I sound like I'm growling, I know, but I'm not. Oh man, I've never heard of a sex slip. I mean, I've heard of like, but I get it, I know what he means. Like where you. I mean, there have been times when I've been in breakups and it was hard to break the ties and you're kind of like, yeah, we're done, but maybe we'll just have this one little time, yeah. And then you're like, oh, yeah, so I get it. But sex slip sounds gross, it sounds weird. I've never heard that until now, or maybe the first time I saw the show. But the things I'm picturing in my head are not what he meant. Right, no, no, no, no, oh. But there's another word that was said, a lot that I oh, was that? That was in the next one? Oh, it was OK. Well, we'll get there in a second. Where is it? Ok, we're almost done with that.
Speaker 1:But we have to pause now and talk a little more in depth about this scene with Andy and Jack, when she's staring out her window and he brings up her mental health and tells her she should get back on her meds. So that's the first time as an audience we realized, you know, she's had something to treat which makes complete sense in general. And then her family circumstances. What did you think about the framing of the talking of about the mental health in this episode with Andy. Well, I mean, I think it was good, I think there was probably I mean, you know, listen, it was the late 90s I will say I feel like there has there, they were one of the first shows to talk about it, like especially with teenagers, right, and I do think it was necessary and important because mental health has a huge stigma, but it still does. Unfortunately it does. We've come a long way, but we also haven't, and I feel like we're on this pendulum backswing right now with so many things and that's one that is going backwards. But I think that's good and I'm glad that it was being addressed. Yeah, I thought it was. I thought it was pretty good too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it was like you could see that Andy was resistant to admitting that she needed the help. Yeah, and I think that, like, if you've ever had mental health struggles and you've had to go on medication because not everybody does, but a lot of us do that's the tricky part is because you start to feel better because the medicine is doing what it's supposed to be doing, and so you're like, oh well, I'm fine now because she kept saying I don't need it, I'm fine, because you are fine for a while and then your body's chemistry switches back without that medication and you're going to start slipping right back into your struggles. And I think that's a very common thing I know I have done that to you in the past where I'm like, oh, I feel good, let me get off these meds. And then, like a month later, I'm like, oh God, I feel terrible, like, yeah, yeah. So I thought that the way that they framed all that was really good, okay. So then I say, switching to a different scene, because jen is still trying to make dawson a teen or whatever she's doing, um, I said, why did the dawson and jen's storyline have to go sexual?
Speaker 1:But then it doesn't. Okay, this is the part that I'm on Dawson's side. Guys, note this down. Uh-oh, mark the history, write it down, okay. So when they are skinny dipping in the creek In Dawson's Creek, hello, oh, hello. I have to understand his confusion Because Jen has been throwing herself at him for months now. Okay, that's the first thing. Not that you can't change your mind, you can, but I can understand why he's confused. Then it's her idea to go skinny dipping. They're naked teenagers in close proximity. It's not like they're like alone, yeah, alone, secluded place, and she just asked him have you ever had a sex dream about me? Well, she didn't say it that way and then admits that she's had them about him and so he tries to kiss her and she's like that's crossing the line and I'm like, and he's like, and he doesn't push it or anything. He's like, oh, okay, but he's like I'm really confused. I'm like, yeah, like that is confusing, yeah, so I'm on his side, I it was written kind of strange it was.
Speaker 1:I do feel like it was written. It was like making jen sort of this sexual being from a writer's perspective, but then halting the brakes. I don't know, it's weird. But then also being like, oh, but she can, like almost like trying to take a stance of some sort, but it didn't make sense, like she could it was very weird say, say no at any point, which she can, of course. But it was like like in real life, but sure, maybe stuff like that does happen, but like for the storyline, it didn't make sense. But also it wasn't like she was into it and then changed her mind, right, it was like she was like that's crossing the line and and she was almost like how dare you for not understanding that. And it's like, uh, like, yeah, do you see what's happened? Okay, yeah, it was weird. But also, on that note, tping.
Speaker 1:I love that they went TPing a house and, um, did you ever do that as a teenager? No, no, I didn't. What? Never TPed? Oh my gosh. Okay, so my school had a tradition my high school. Every homecoming week we had white Wednesday and this God, I don't even I'm sure it's probably not still happening because everybody's losing their minds these days about kids doing things. But um, I mean, my sister did it and before her it was done. I don't know why it's a tradition, it's the weirdest tradition.
Speaker 1:But everybody would go TPing houses and cops just kind of look the other way, unless the people whose house you were TPing called them. Then they have to like they wouldn't just pull over on the side of like if they saw you TPing a house, they wouldn't like. But my mom was. My mom was fine with it, but I had to clean it all up before I went to school in the morning because it's a mess Like and it goes everywhere and if it rains it's disgusting and it kills your grass and all that stuff. So my mom actually went I, I think she was actually coming home from somewhere and the people were my friends were TPing, and she came out and was and they were like oh, and she's like, oh, no, go ahead, danny has to clean this up in the morning before school anyway. So then they got me even worse. Yeah, but it was also like a thing Like if nobody TPed your house. You were like womp, womp. Yeah, like, oh, no one cares about me. Yeah, that's how I would feel. Yeah and so. But my senior year, um, gotten to the school and TP the school, so that was not a good. That was before cameras and cause, it was like a courtyard situation. So, anyways, oh my goodness. Yeah, that's my TP story.
Speaker 1:But moving on, because we still have another episode to talk about, we do so, we're not done yet. All I have left on this one is when Pacey plays that little trick on Abby when they're in the office and it's like so dumb, so dumb. But it's also so, pacey, where, like he knows, she's about to say something nasty about everyone. So he pushed there in the office or whatever. He pushes a little intercom button but she doesn't notice somehow, even though she's right next to him, I know, and she's like these half wits and everyone's stupid and I'm great. And so then, all of a sudden, it's like, oops, she's not gonna be class president now. And pacey's like, ha ha, I got you and I was like she wouldn't notice. Okay, abby's a little smarter than that. That's part of her issue. She's just too smart. Yeah, she's a smart villain.
Speaker 1:I thought it was cute when joey and jack were holding hands. I loved the cordless phone that andy answered in her bathroom. It was like that black slick, like yeah, that was really awesome. And then, oh, I was when she opened. Okay, she being andy, she's looking in the mirror, she's crying. You can tell she's just having like a breakdown moment. She opens the medicine cabinet and grab some pills. Yeah, and before you can tell what they are, I panicked for a second because, bless, you Caught it. I will wash my hands after this episode and I will pause it in a minute. We'll pause it, okay, good, we'll pause. But, um, she, I thought maybe we were gonna have like an od situation because I didn't know. I didn't know.
Speaker 1:Is she taking one for her mental health or is this like some other kind of pill that, like, is gonna be a mess, but thankfully, yeah, it was just. You see her take the one pill and, um, you assume it's to treat her depression or her or whatever issues she has going on, which I mean I felt like that was again a good scene, because you do have that. I mean, the reason why you're reluctant to take the medication is because of the stigma that surrounds it, especially because she has a parent who's struggling with mental health problems and she doesn't want to be like her parent. Right, yes, I can understand that. Like I've been there and you're like, oh, I don't want to have to, I don't want to do this, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And so that emotion, and then, like she's on the phone with Pacey and she's like, ah, and then she finally is like, okay, I gotta like get my life together, gotcha.
Speaker 1:I will say too, I shows males crying often because it really helps especially. I mean, usually it's Dawson, but we've seen Mitch cry, we see Pacey cry in the next few episodes, and it's done in a way that just is very natural. It's not like oh, my God, you're crying. You know what I'm saying. It's not made a big deal out of it, it just happens, just like it does when females cry. So I appreciate that the writers did that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does seem like the people who are in the scenes with them when that happened just make space for it right, like nobody's, like oh my god, what are you doing? Which y'all? For the late 90s that's kind of a big deal like. Nowadays it's not like I feel like a lot of that toxic masculinity near. Well, I mean again, pendulum swing. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, yeah, we are, we are swinging right back into it. It would have been a good deal to see that Right, yeah, it would have been.
Speaker 1:And, speaking of that, in that final scene where Jen is inexplicably sitting on the floor Doing her homework by the sink, by the kitchen sink, homework by the sink, by the kitchen, in the kitchen, it's like um, what? But anyway that's where she is. When Dawson walks in and he's having a moment and I wrote down he says to her, to Jen, thanks for being here, yeah, and Jen says thanks for letting me. Yeah, and I felt that because I think it's hard to let people into that yeah, and, and people appreciate it sometimes when you do Right, because then they feel like you're including me and what you're going through and I care about you, as opposed to like you're putting up a wall or pretending to be whatever. You know and everyone has to process things, however they need to process it. But I just thought her saying thanks for letting me was really sweet, it was, and I felt that we're going to pause and then we're going to pause and then we're going to do episode 10. Yep, be right back, not that you'll miss us, because we'll literally be one second and we're back One second. Okay, great, we're back. Now we're back again For season two, episode 10, entitled High Risk Behavior Ooh, what does that mean?
Speaker 1:Let's find out. Let's find out, all right. As Dawson's new film exposes his uncertainty over his relationship with Joey, pacey and Andy explore the idea of having sex. Ooh, jack off. Jack offers to help Joey salvage an art class assignment by posing in the nude. I we have so much to say. I cannot with this. We're going to keep it short. We're going to keep it short, okay, all right.
Speaker 1:So, opening scene it's Dawson and Pacey this is before the intro song Looking into each other's eyes, saying these really meaningful things about being in love with each other, which immediately you know they're just probably doing Dawson's script? Yeah, and they were. And so Pacey's critique of Dawson's script is you write in too many syllables. Yes, which I loved. Monosyllabic what does he say? That's wrong, yeah, monosyllabic. What did I say? Not bad, monosyllabic Never ends. I don't know, I think the way I said it, I don't know You're right, but he carries the joke through the scene.
Speaker 1:So later on, when Dawson says something like, oh, discombobulated Pacey is thinking about it he's like discombobulated. Yeah, that's too many syllables, dawson, this is what I'm talking about and it was just a really cute scene. It's funny. But you know again, pacey, right away is telling Dawson oh, you got to. You know, I know why don't the main characters have sex, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then that theme carries through the whole episode. Well, I will say like, like I said already, like I I mean his opinion of leaving it out. I'm good with. He doesn't want to, you don't have to put it in if you don't want to. Also, I hate it when people try to control your creativity. Yeah, totally, like I don't like that.
Speaker 1:Um, when we first started our podcast, we had lots of people close to us husbands, um and other, and friends and stuff telling us oh, y'all need to do this, y'all need to do that, y'all need to do that. Not that like that's bad ideas, but also like we knew what we wanted to do, right. So it was like yeah and no thanks. And it's people being excited, yeah, of course, that sort of thing Totally.
Speaker 1:And I wrote I think I've told you this, maybe I haven't I wrote a screenplay a few years ago, yeah, yeah, yeah, that I've revisited a few times and I did get feedback from people and that was the most interesting part was being like, you know, people who had maybe good ideas, but they didn't quite fit what I wanted. Yeah, or the comments. I got over and over that. Then I had to revisit me like huh, yeah, well, I need to think of this as like the viewer or the reader, because five people said the same thing, but in this case, like five people say it to dawson and I think he should keep his thing. So I don't know, but, but it's like but.
Speaker 1:But then you have to think who are you creating for? Is he creating for, you know, just the standard audience, or is he creating for the people out there who feel like he does Right, or for people to think of a different perspective. Right, and not, which is what I think he's doing. He's trying to not do what is expected of a teen movie. Agree, drama, agree, Drama, agree.
Speaker 1:Whatever the hell he's doing, team Dawson, on this one, I know, and you again, two episodes in a row, I don't know, it's not going to last, guys, it's not going to last. But I mean because Jen says, like what did she say? I wrote it down. Sexy always will win over nice. There, I don't agree and I think of can't hardly wait. Ethan Embry yeah, I mean, he was cute, but he wasn't sexy. No, he was awkward and weird, but he was so nice.
Speaker 1:Because I feel like I guess I've always felt this way. I feel like people's personalities, like I never know if I'm attracted to somebody except Dawson's dad I thought you were going to say except my husband of 22 years. Well, no, I mean obviously, but I mean I never. But even with him, like I never know if I'm fully attracted to somebody until I get to know them a bit, like I need to ask you some questions and need to know some things and then the attraction happens for me. That's just me, right? Most of the time Now, of course, like. There are times where I'm like, oh, that person's super hot, blah, blah, blah. But for me to feel truly attract somebody, I got to like know what's up with you? No same, because if you're a dick, then that takes. I don't care if you are Dawson's dad, if you're a jerk or like. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, it's just funny. And he's like super old by now. So like I'm okay with just remembering him from the late nineties. People are probably like that's not nice, but anyway, no, he's still. You know what I'm saying. Like cause that can turn, that can. Nothing can put a fire.
Speaker 1:Speaking of loins, then this whole scene where pacey comes up to andy's locker. Oh, it's just like, hey, my hiv test was negative and I'm like what I mean? Good for him, but like also. So again, I think timing is everything. Obviously, the writers were trying to make a point. Right, it's okay to get tested for this thing, like Pacey did it. It just felt like very like, okay.
Speaker 1:But then it leads into a conversation about sex, which this was the word we were talking about earlier in the episode. Yes, several times, Several times, pacey at least uses the word scrump S-C-R-U-M-P Scrump To mean sex. I do not ever recall using that word as sex slang. I have never heard that word. I was like so he said it once and I was like, oh, pacey, you know, just being silly, just like like I don't think that was a thing in the 90s. And then he kept saying it and I was like, is this a word? Was this the writers trying to make their own fetch? They're trying Scrump is never going to happen, writers. I mean obviously, yes, it is. I don't know if listeners, if you knew that word outside of this context. I know, let us know. I never heard that until this episode. Yeah, I thought that was crazy.
Speaker 1:But, that being said, their whole conversation about like the HIV test and scrumping or whatever, was very like honest and open and just like not embarrassed to talk about it but also not embarrassed to be like oh, oh, I don't know if I really want to like. It just seemed very like vulnerable, yeah, safe, it was a safe conversation. It was also. It was also super cute how they were like well, do you want to? I don't know, do you want to? You answer first like yeah, it was really cute, it was cute. It was cute, so I liked it.
Speaker 1:And then in the hallway, chris Wolfe asked Abby if she's going to try out for Dawson's movie. Yeah, and Chris is all into it. He's like, oh, it's going to be on the film circuit, blah, blah, blah. And she tells him that he has Brad-petitis. Brad-petitis Because he's just, like, I guess, infected with this like Hollywood wannabe thing. I thought that was so funny. She really does have the best lines, she does.
Speaker 1:And then the auditions themselves it felt very high school musical because it was like a montage of people, yeah, and then they would flip through the same people and it was just like every 90s hairstyle, fashion, outfit trope, like the cheerleader chewing the gum, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, oh my gosh, and and if you've ever been in an audition, you like, felt it, you're like, oh man. Or if you've ever been on the other side of the table which I have been, like Dawson and Jen, that feeling too. And obviously these, right, like all these people work in Hollywood that put the show together. So they could, they got that right. I felt like they did a really good job on that.
Speaker 1:Well, let's talk about joey and the nude. Oh god, not joey and the nude, but joey and the nude and the nude. Okay, first question yeah, I wrote. Here was joey, a minor child at a class where there was an adult naked male that she was supposed to draw. I didn't even think about that till you brought it up, but that does give creepy vibes. Yeah, like, I know it's art, et cetera, et cetera, but she's 16. Yeah, and feasibly like in real life, she hasn't seen it for herself and I doubt that there is a guardian there with her. Yeah, cause it was my understanding. It's like a college level class. Yeah, right, which you know, high schoolers can take college level courses.
Speaker 1:But I was just sort of like are we to believe that like this? She really did this? Maybe did people do this? I'm so confused, I don't know. It did seem weird, it was the 90s, yeah, so then she's trying.
Speaker 1:So also, also, she's drawing the naked man at school at a picnic table outside. Drawing the naked man at school at a picnic table outside. Well, I think she was looking at it, yeah, oh, no, I thought she had her, I don't know, because Dawson came up. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then Jack spills coffee or something all over it, and so the only solution, according to Jack, is for him to pose for her nude. Now, the World Wide Web did exist Also. So did public libraries where you could look up pictures of medical whatever you need to. If you need to find a picture of a nude man to just kind of copy or, but like, no, like.
Speaker 1:They were very insistent about like how she's like. Well, you can't recreate the light and the whatever if it's not a real person. Listen, what it was. Such a weird, it was just. And then, and then of course, they use it for like the you know, the Titanic reference. Yes, he really did look like Kate Winslet on that couch, though Like his body angle and the pose and like how, like the angle she was at drawing him or sketching him or painting or whatever she was doing. Like was the same as like Jack from the Titanic.
Speaker 1:Yes, and let's just go ahead and talk about how horrendous that drawing was. You guys, it's the same laughed out loud. It only was on the screen for like two or three seconds. It's so bad and I was. But it comes back next episode. Oh, I get to see it again. Yes, oh lord, oh lord. Well, like you said, it's the same person who drew the Dawson's face when she was like.
Speaker 1:I drew the one person I love or whatever, and it's like this terrible picture. Oh, it's so terrible. Wait, do you think they made it look amateur on purpose? I feel like no, okay, because they spend a lot of time having the audience believe that Joey's very Oh're right, you're right, right, okay. So I think that's what makes it funny too. Yeah, it's like, so you had me where I'm like, wow, she's like. And then you're showing us these supposed finished products and like someone and and some like art professors, like, oh, you have so much talent, like what? These are terrible, these are terrible drawings. Um, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So then I had another little laugh when Andy and Pacey are talking, and oh, actually we have to start. We have to go back before the laugh when because I had an ex or a problematic when Pacey grabs Andy's meds in the oh yeah, she picks up her antidepressant and, of course, runs into Pacey there, yeah, and he tries to see what's in the bag and she says no, and then he takes the bag and then he's like oh, this is Xanax, isn't that used for anxiety and depression? Kind of like Prozac, and it was like a little commercial in the middle of it, but it made me so mad. And then she lies and says it's her mom's, which, even if it was her mom's, it's not his, none of your damn business to look at or grab. If someone is holding something and they say I don't want you to see it, that's it. Yeah, especially in a drug store, it's not cute, it's not cute.
Speaker 1:And then and then, in like the little tussle of like him grab, they end up next to the condoms. Yeah, which made which made me giggle, because she, she picked up some ribbed condoms, yeah, and she was like designed, designed for extra for her pleasure. And she was like how would they know? And I'm like preach sister, how would they? And he said maybe a woman designed them, okay, maybe, but nah, but nah, because it's still not doing what it needs to be doing. Sorry, yeah, yeah, that's Anyway. Which Andy wouldn't know yet, according to the storyline. Well, correct, and obviously Pacey wouldn't either, right, I mean, he was with the teacher, but like you're still. Anyway, yeah, I don't want to talk about teacher. No, don't bring her up ever again. So the thing that made me giggle.
Speaker 1:Then, when they leave the store, because we know andy is one of the oldest cast members, oh no, shade, she's like 29 probably, when she's yeah, and she has this line where she says she's talking about being a virgin and sex for the first time and she's like I've waited 16 years, and you can even just see the actress's face like lying terribly, like she's like I've waited 16 whole years, or almost like 16 whole years, because I am my teenager, I am 16 years old, damn it. Yes, I am like she was almost 30. I know it made me crazy, wild and nothing wrong with that, but it just you could just even tell in her delivery that she was like this is not believable. Do you think all the younger castmates had, uh, her, buy them alcohol? Probably I was just thinking about that. Yeah, probably she was like the one person who was like a legit girl yeah, andy mcphee, and they're buying alcohol for all her underage castmates. I love that. Um, okay, so then back to the nude art sketching.
Speaker 1:When Joey talks about how art makes her feel oh, yeah, I loved this. Like, I love that. Yeah, that was really cool when. Oh, well, yeah, we'll get to that next one that I know you're going to talk about. But when she's saying how, like, every time she makes art, it's like taking a risk or doing something dangerous. It's like a thrill, and it did really make me think of performing, because every time you audition for something, you're putting yourself out there and you're doing something dangerous, or even like you get the part and now you're performing. Well, now you have all these choices you have to make and all these things, and it's a constant exercise in creation and vulnerability. And so I thought, when she sort of explained, like, how she enjoyed art, that way it like spoke to me, I thought they described that really well. But what else did they talk about?
Speaker 1:Speaking of descriptions, jack had this giant metaphor and we've only got a couple more things to say. And then we got to do another recording, couple more things to say, and then we got to do another recording. Jack was like had this deep, deep metaphor for what? Okay, sex was like the first time he's had it one and only time, one time, yep, and it was this whole drawn out thing, like it was. I don't even remember what he said. Listen y'all, there ain't no way. That's how he felt his first time, because, no, it was too much. It was too much. I mean, like you know, he's like my eyes were opened and I saw everything stood still brand new.
Speaker 1:Now, look, I'm not saying that can't happen when you have a sexual experience, but generally your first one is weird, it's awkward. That doesn't mean it doesn't feel good, but you're not having some like move the earth. You don't feel positive about it. Later you can absolutely, but it's not. Yeah well, and I wrote in my notes is jack a creep? Mainly in that part, because I'm like is this she's just selling her bullshit to get her to sleep? I him, I mean, I think he really did feel that.
Speaker 1:Well, the way the writers wrote it, I mean like, but also I think that's such a disservice to teenagers yes, males, females and everyone because then you have it in your head oh well, when I do it, it is going to be like this, and it puts a lot of pressure on people Right. It puts a lot of pressure on people Right, and then it puts a lot of like questioning if, if it's not that right, like what's wrong with me or what's wrong with them, or is it? Did we do it wrong, or did we do this or that Because it's supposed to be this, et cetera, et cetera. When it takes a while to you usually to get to a place. Yeah, even with, like, the perfect person, absolutely, it's, still it's.
Speaker 1:It's like any part of a relationship like it has to grow and find itself and you know all the things and and you as a human being, whether, whatever gender you are, whatever sexual identity you have, it takes you a while, like you don't know, when you're 16 years old, your body inside and out, yet you just don't know. But anyway, I just thought that was. I don't like that. That is so problematic in all these older movies and TV shows is they just give this narrative and then you go into sex with all this bullshit in your head. That's not real and I mean it's a little bit different. But like that's why they honestly say one of the reasons young people watching porn is so bad, oh, it is. I was just thinking that because it's not reality. Yeah, I mean there's a whole well host of issues with porn, but like that that it does give them this false picture of what like a genuine, intimate, intimate relationship should look like. Yeah, because it's glamorized.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, well, you have to remember that those are paid performers. Yes, they are, those are paid entertainers, correct? You're not sneaking a camera in somebody's bedroom, although there is this movement, and now I'm forgetting what it's called this. This woman started it. This older woman started it. That is real people. I'm not even kidding. It's like porn, for I don't. It's not called porn for real life, but it's something like that. I don't know. I'll let y'all know. I'll come back, please. I don't remember why. I know this, okay, but it's she has like amateur, like normal people, film themselves and then she puts it on her website for people to peruse because she wants to have real bodies and real people and real situations and like a sex positive way. Ok, instead of like paid.
Speaker 1:Now, look, there's nothing wrong with sex work if that's the way you make your money and you're healthy and you're safe. I'm not, I'm not going to shoot down any workers, but I also think that putting that different spin on it narrative, if people are wanting to, if you're an adult, let me put it that way If you're an adult and you're looking for imaging, that is reality, more reality based. No, I mean, I totally agree, and you do have to look at it like that. You know, it's like even just anything in Hollywood where you're like the standards of that, of how people look or what their homes look like, or whatever it's like. Even just anything in Hollywood where you're like the standards of that, yeah, of how people look, or what their homes look like, or whatever it's like. That's all made up, it's all made up, that is all made up, yeah, like, and so you can enjoy that, because the things we like to watch are aspirational. Well, of course, and if you don't want reality, right then don't go there. Right, then don't go there, right. But that's why it's dangerous for brains that are still developing Correct, because then they have it imprinted, not that they need to go look up real people having sex. I know what you mean. You know what I'm saying. It's, it's setting up a bar. That's too high.
Speaker 1:So, speaking of the teens having sex, yes, the final, the final montage. We've got Jack and Joey Like you don't know for sure what happens Maybe having sex, and then you'll find out the next episode, okay, cause it did say to be continued. Um, then we've got Dawson climbing through Jen's window and whatever's going on there and getting in bed with her, but then there's Pacey and Andy who are at this bed and breakfast for like the perfect evening, but then it ends with them, fully clothed, outside, holding hands, walking away. So you're to assume they didn't, but I guess we'll find out. You'll find out next episode. Okay, something that Jen did say, though, as we're closing up.
Speaker 1:Jen was telling Dawson at the end when they were talking, like, intent and motive are what makes sex interesting, and I thought, okay, that's a very deep statement from a 16 year old. She would not know that yet. But, okay, that's a very deep statement from a 16 year old. She would not know that yet. But it's very true, it's so true. It's very, very true. Yeah, so, anyway, that was a good way to put it.
Speaker 1:There's a lot going to happen the next few episodes. All right, so the next two will be 11 and 12. Yeah, oh, I'm excited. I haven't watched them yet because I wanted to talk about these, okay, first. Okay, so now we're here, yeah, we're here, so I will be intrigued to watch it. Okay, all right. Well, keep listening and keep watching with us, if you are, and be sure you review us wherever you listen to podcasts. If you don't watch us on youtube, go over there anyway and just give us a little subscribe, a little thumbs up. That helps people who do like to watch podcasts on youtube. Find us and join us on patreon if you haven't yet, and I think those are all the things, yeah, so we'll see you next time, guys. See you next time, bye.
