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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Reading for Pizza: The Book It Legacy
Have you ever tracked your reading hours to collect a tasty reward when you met your goal?
Did you proudly display your purple Book It pin on your jean jacket?
If pizza is still your only motivation to read, you might be a Xennial who grew up chasing down personal pan pizzas in the Book It program. And we are too.
For countless kids growing up in the 80s and 90s, Pizza Hut's reading incentive program transformed the sometimes daunting task of reading into an adventure with the tastiest of rewards: Personal pan pizzas earned through literary achievement.
Dani dives deep into the surprising 40-year history of this beloved literacy program. What started as a marketing idea quickly became a cultural phenomenon, reaching 7 million children in just eleven months after its 1984 launch.
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Do you remember racking up books on your library card just to get a trip to Pizza?
Speaker 2:Hut, do you remember the pride you felt when you handed the waiter your certificate for your very own personal pan pizza?
Speaker 1:If, you remember the excitement you felt when you clipped that purple pin on your jean jacket. You might remember the Book it program and you might be a Zenniol. Hi everyone, I'm Dani, oh goodness, I felt that coming.
Speaker 2:I felt that I did that out. Hold on, and I'm Katie, and welcome to Generation in Between, a Xenial podcast where we revisit, remember and sometimes relearn all kinds of things from our 80s childhoods and 90s teen young adulthoods.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and today if you have not guessed, we are talking about the beloved reading incentive program Book it sponsored by Pizza Hut that so many 80s and 90s kids fondly remember and is still around everyone. I did not know that. Our friend Jonathan told us that he still has one of his bucket buttons. Yeah, he brought it into Katie's studio and he's like yeah, it's still around. Sure is, and we'll talk about it later. But cool, but before we do that, yes, we have some circle backs to get to. Um, oh, I have one. Okay, that's funny. If you need to keep looking up your info, go for it.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So for those of you that don't listen to our Dawson's Creek episode, I'll give you a little brief thing of what I'm about. To circle back to, Dawson's parents and his mom had an affair. His parents are divorcing and the dad moves out of their big beautiful house.
Speaker 2:So I said I think I know what you're going to. I mean, I think I know what this is about.
Speaker 1:I know the kid, I don't know what you're going to say but I think I know what this is about.
Speaker 1:So I said that's bullshit, that he moved out when she was the one who fucked it all up. And I said I'm damn telling you straight my husband, if I walked my little butt around with some other man, he'd be like goodbye, get out of our nice house, you can go live in a sad hotel. Katie did not think that I was right, so I went and asked him. I told him, I said hey, I want to see what you say to this. I told him the whole story and he said, oh, 1000% you'd be gone. Okay, 22 years. I know that man Also don't think he's terrible, because I would do the same thing Like you mess around on me. Goodbye, I will tell everybody the nonsense you did to me. I am, I am not about keeping it in the family. Nope, nope, nope, sorry, don't be doing stuff that you don't want people to know about. Anyway, katie. So there you go.
Speaker 2:I was right, All right, I love it. I, I and look. Hopefully we never have to find out oh right, All hypotheticals.
Speaker 1:Also, y'all should know, a lot of you don't listen to our Dawson's Creek episode because you're like I don't care, like I didn't watch that show, but we do talk about some other things Like that, like that. So there are some fun conversation pieces that you may be missing out on if you don't listen to Dawson's Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. Katie has some circlebacks. Yes, I do. Okay, so Face on the Milk Carton the episode. If you haven't listened, it's in our feed. We also talked about the made for TV movie, so the book and the movie and just the whole cultural phenomenon that was Faces on Milk Cartons. So I sort of glossed over the cast list in the TV movie and I was like, oh, kelly Martin was in it. We had a nice long discussion about her.
Speaker 1:Well, one of our new listeners, anthony, yeah, that was the second call out, look at that, yay, two in a row.
Speaker 2:Also, I guess must have gone on YouTube and watched the made for TV movie or somehow, yeah, and he was telling Dani oh my God, it has all these great people in it. And so I had to go back because there were a few people I didn't mention. So, for example, her um non-biological mother was played by jill clayberg, who actually has won. She's won two awards and been nominated for an oscar twice. The award she won, oh, she won for um, golden globes. It looks like. Anyway, you won't. You won't know based on her awards, but I'm on imdb right now. You would know her face if you saw her Most recently she was in Bridesmaids, but in the 80s and 90s she was in all sorts of stuff on TV and movies. So she was in, oh, the Face of the Milk Carton. It popped right up. That's really funny.
Speaker 1:So she's like a TV movie pro, like a lot of people, a lot of these are tv movies but yeah the biggest one was the dad right, so she was the mom.
Speaker 2:Then the dad is um edward herman.
Speaker 1:You guys, he played max in lost boys, yes, which katie has never seen never. It is one of my favorite movies ever which they're making into a Broadway musical, are they really? Yes, and I'm going to. I have to get to New York to see that Anyway. So in October that's our first. That'll be the first one we're doing.
Speaker 2:Lost Boys and he was on the show how I Met your Mother. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he is a voice on american dad. Yeah, y'all know this man. You would know him if you saw him. So those are just a few. There were a few others on there. Um, if you haven't watched it yet, you you'll probably like watch it, like me, and be like, oh, that person looks incredibly familiar. Yeah, because really everybody in the cast either was already in a lot of tv movies or somewhat well known, or they became so later on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there we go, circle back, love it, love. So we got all the info now. Yeah, we got it all All right, so you ready, I'm ready for book.
Speaker 2:You ready to talk about book?
Speaker 1:I'm ready Before I give you all the facts and not figures, because I don't do math. Katie, do you remember book it?
Speaker 2:I do book it, I do. Yeah, did you do it at school? I don't remember. Okay, I was homeschooled from third to sixth grade. Not that you can't do book it at home. Well, back then you couldn't. You can now. So no, I probably didn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, by the time I was in seventh grade?
Speaker 2:I probably didn't.
Speaker 1:I forgot you were homeschooled.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I'm aware of the program but I must have not participated.
Speaker 1:Well, you guys know that I ate so much fast food as a kid and my school 100% did this and I have fond memories and the thing is I was already a big reader, so it was just an added bonus for me, cause like I was already going to read five books or whatever, like I read all the time. So I'm like, oh, I get prizes for something I already do, and it's pizza, let's go so okay. So you probably don't know about all the details.
Speaker 2:You know it's an incentive program, yeah exactly, and you would get the personal pan pizza and all of that. Yeah, I remember all of that.
Speaker 1:So here, basically for people who don't know what book it is, it is a reading incentive program for pre-K all the way up to sixth grade, and it's for classrooms. It's for parents and homeschool. Now, it didn't used to be. When it first started, it was just for classrooms and it's a classroom specific. I think I couldn't find enough information on this. They used to have maybe like a school wide thing, but the teacher, the classroom teacher, is the one who has to register for it and keep track of it and all that.
Speaker 1:So it's like it's like a individual class thing. So primary classroom teachers they set monthly reading goals for their students based on reading levels, and here's what I like they get to choose for each kid based on their reading abilities and where they are in their little learning journey, if it's either the number of pages read, the number of books read or the number of minutes that you read Because, like for a kid like me you're not going to like who read all the time, pages or minutes is a really bad decision.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right, so you know number of books. But for somebody who maybe is not a voracious reader like me, telling them to read five books is, you know, a little outlandish. But if you say, hey, sit down and read for 15 minutes, you know five times, then you get your thing. So, anyway, I like that nowadays and anyway. So once you hit your goal you got a little certificate and that's what you brought to pizza hut to redeem for your free personal pan pizza. But nowadays everything is digital, so no more buttons. Although if you go to Book it's Instagram feed, they have a merch link and you can go buy t-shirts and sweatshirts and stuff like that. That's kind of cool, but no buttons. But you can find them on Etsy People do make them and eBay.
Speaker 2:That's not the same as earning it through the program, I know so.
Speaker 1:The program runs October 1st through March 31st each year and students can earn a total of six certificates in the year. So six pizzas, six personal pan pizzas Wow, okay, but you can earn more.
Speaker 1:They didn't used to have a limit and we'll talk about that later but now you can only get up to six because, like I said, it was kind of unfair. And then there was. You can be dishonest and sure, anyway. So I'm going to read for you bookets, mission statement, and then we're going to get into like the timeline and little facts. Honestly, here's something I'll tell you, spoiler alert. There was not a lot of drama that I found about this program. Not a lot of deep, dark secrets, not a lot of deep dives. I could go on. Like I texted Katie at 915 last night I was like, well, I'm done, like cause I hadn't had a chance to like really dig into it, and I was like, okay, I'm good, there's not a lot of craziness.
Speaker 1:Not a lot out there, okay, but here we go. So since 1984, the Pizza Hut Book it program has been dedicated to encouraging reading in schools nationwide, and we know that to make a difference you really have to read your heart out. Trademark after that, Read your heart out, I guess, is their tagline. What?
Speaker 2:See, read your heart out, I guess, is their tagline. What See, trademark, read your heart out, isn't that? That doesn't seem like that would be a trademarked phrase. Whatever, Okay.
Speaker 1:Our work is more than just a corporate mission. It's a personal challenge to turn, have to read and to want to read, and our time-tested incentives work. We are the largest and longest running corporate-supp supported reading program and now we are fostering the second generation of program alumni. We know that reading makes a difference, so that's their mission statement. I like it, yeah, I mean it's good. It's pretty straightforward. It was started in 1984, like I just said, and it was actually created by Pizza Hut?
Speaker 2:Okay, that was going to be one of my questions. Yeah, like why Pizza Hut? And like which maybe you'll get into, but like, if you're this company, like why in 1984, are you suddenly like let's promote literacy?
Speaker 1:Well, I will tell you the information. Oh, yay, good. So something that's interesting. I think with humans in general, especially Americans, because of our culture of individualism, a lot of times we don't think of things until it hits close to home. Yeah, so that relates to the book it program, because the idea actually came about when the Pizza Hut president at the time, whose name was Art Gunther, was having dinner with another Pizza Hut executive named Bud Gates. They were on a double date with their wives and they were talking about kids and Gunther started talk or art or whatever. Mr Gunther, there you go, started talking about his young son who was having trouble learning to read, and so they were just kind of talking and brainstorming and they were like, hey, what if Pizza Hut gave kids pizza as a way to encourage them to read? And they were thinking, oh, it'll help the kids, but it will also bring in money from hungry parents and siblings, meaning we're helping, but hello, making money. Capitalism with a cause.
Speaker 2:Right, like yes, you could just probably go in and get this personal pizza, but, like most people aren't. Right, you're buying it for the whole family.
Speaker 1:Because I mean a lot of restaurants. I will say, like a lot of restaurant chains do this now where they reward for honor roll, not for reading, but for good grades. We have so many like certificates to like Texas Roadhouse and whatever and like. It's great, I love it, but yes, it means we all go, we all spend the money, Like I'm not just going to take my youngest to Texas Roadhouse and watch him eat.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think they usually say dine in only as well, correct, so like you have to, you can't get it to go.
Speaker 1:Now, I think with Pizza Hut, you can now order it digitally.
Speaker 2:It makes sense, though, now, because there aren't a lot of dine-in opportunities for Pizza Hut.
Speaker 1:I know Well since we're talking about that, can we just pause for a moment? I wrote this in my notes, I would not forget. Can we talk about Pizza Hut in the eighties? Yes, let's talk like that whole. You guys need to understand. Pizza Hut was like a sit down restaurant. They were waiters Yep, they had these amazing lights, do you remember? Like the Tiffany style lights style.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, yep. The red cups still can like feel them because they were like the grainy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were like bumpy and like you would go there, you would sit down, you would, or? I still remember it was so long ago that it was a smoking restaurant, like a smoking section and non-smoking.
Speaker 2:I remember that too.
Speaker 1:But do you remember their salad bars?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, Even in adulthood I found a few. Really, they still have it. They used until maybe a year ago maybe two years now time's flying there was still a sit down pizza hut down near where we live in Indy Atlantic, and it has closed now. But you walked in there. It was like walking into the eighties and they had the salad bar at lunchtime.
Speaker 2:It was like a lunchtime special. You could come do the salad bar and they had like a pizza buffet and stuff like that, and I went just a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you guys, those of y'all that remember, y'all remember like I, like I can still smell it. I also, when I, when I was um, graduated from college and I was teaching funny joke there, I lived right across the street like literally from a pizza hut, Like you would turn on a side street. My janky apartment was on one side and the pizza was literally right there.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:So like, so I ate there so much. I couldn't eat pizza Hut for like decades. Oh I bet. But it was like that, it was super like. I mean, it was like rural northern Louisiana, it was like retro, but their salad bar was never open.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it kind of got to that point there was one near where I grew up in Indiana too that I think might still be there Because I feel like we took our kids just a couple of years ago when we were visiting. But same thing like you get excited for the salad bar and it's not open, and after COVID I don't think they're ever open. Even if they still exist places, I don't think that they ever reopened those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean like let's, it was a big deal guys. Going to Pizza Hut was an event Event, it was an event, it was an event and it was just like you'd go after baseball games or um, like even chorus performances or thank you for throwing that in there.
Speaker 2:I had to play sport I didn't play baseball either but I remember something I remember going with my brothers so, but you played a sport, um no I mean I, I ran. Okay, well, that's a sport. Yeah, she said I ran. I guess, Not in high school.
Speaker 1:Oh, I thought you did.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't play a sport in high school. Okay, no, you didn't. Anyway, sorry, all right, but yeah, it was like, yes, you would go with your family, but also it was like where the groups would go. Yeah, partly because of the salad bar bar, partly because, even now, pizza is the easiest way to like feed a lot of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and it was the experience, you'd go to the pizza hut and I think I think they were the first, first pizza chain to have personal pan pizzas, I think they were the first ones and they would come out. Remember it'd come out in there, that little pan. Yes, oh my god, you felt so important. Yeah, it almost looked like like I don't think it was cast iron, but it was cast iron, I think it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it, yeah, and it had a little handle, and you, yeah, and you get your little piece out of it. Yeah, it was delicious it was the best.
Speaker 1:So okay, so that's how the idea came about. So they were brainstorming and they were like pizza to encourage kids to read. So then they brainstormed even more and said what if we had whole classrooms do it? And then they also like for the positive peer pressure aspect of it, like oh everybody's doing it, so I want my pizza.
Speaker 1:And then they said what about whole schools? And it said when they were originally talking about it, if entire classes did it they could even get pizza parties. Now I don't remember that and I couldn't find anything about that phasing out, but you remember the big pizza party deal in the eighties and nineties?
Speaker 2:That was like a big deal, if you met a reward you would get the pizza party, Whether that was actually funded by pizza or, like your teacher, took it out of their budget or the school or something. For some reason it was a big day it was a big day. I mean, we just did a show here at my studio the big day. We did a poster contest and it was a pizza party, if we met our goal and the kids were like so excited. Listen, you tell me pizza party.
Speaker 1:I'm in. Y'all invite me. I'm coming, me too.
Speaker 1:I'll hang those posters or read those books or whatever I got to do. I'm coming for any kind of party with some food. I hate you know what I hate this is, I am really really having an intention problems this morning, everybody Can I tell you. Though just a side note before we continue I really hate when you get invited to a party or like a dinner thing, and they don't have enough food. Yeah, that is like, or it's like just little bitty bits, so you're scared to take. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, you're scared to take what you want for your belly because you're like there's like hardly any shit here. So Troy always laughs at me, cause when I have party also, I'm from South Louisiana we don't know how to have parties without way too much. Way too much, we just don't. But that's why it's because there's nothing worse than we. Or I also hate when there's not like drink options, so like I can't stand it when I go and all they have is like alcohol for adults, or or water.
Speaker 1:It's like hello, not everybody drinks and I think I'm very aware of that because I have recovering alcoholics in my family and so but cause like you want a fun drink and you don't drink often, so it's like you want a fun drink. I don't want just water and everybody else that's having 1600 cocktails.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Right, right have an option.
Speaker 1:have some fun sparkling Anyway. Um so have enough food at your party or I'm not coming or have Danny plan your party.
Speaker 2:I'll do it.
Speaker 1:She's quite good at it. I mean not really, but I won't cook for you.
Speaker 2:But no, no plan. Tell you what to buy. I'm good with themes, so anyway.
Speaker 1:So here's. So they launched the program and within 11 months of launching book it, more than 7 million kids were using it. 11 months in 11 months, Um, with about 233,000 classrooms across the nation, it was it caught on quick.
Speaker 2:That is wild. Do you happen to know how they promoted it? Did they literally go into schools, Did they? I?
Speaker 1:don't, I don't. I didn't really see much about that, um, but this was in like the Reagan era Okay, we're not going to spend a lot of time in the weeds on that, guys but where he was urging corporate America to get involved in education.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we have lots of emotions and feelings around that topic, but I had to throw that in there he was actually a big supporter of the program. Okay, he even like, wrote them a letter, pizza, and said like I congratulate you, um, on your success, and so he was a fan. So I'm sure that helped. Yeah, sure you know.
Speaker 2:Well, and like we always talk about on the show, how everything um was just so much more mainstream. If something was big than it is now, like if there was like a really popular band, it's because that's the only one you heard, or whatever. And I'm not saying like Pizza Hut was the only pizza place, but Well there wasn't that many pizza chains then True, there really wasn't.
Speaker 2:True, true and so it's. And I also feel like pizza and still today is just an affordable option. Oh yeah, it is. So if you've got a bunch of kids, whether they're in your classroom or your house or your little league team I keep going back to baseball. I know what is up with, is it baseball?
Speaker 1:season. Yes, I should know that I had kids that played travel baseball. It is OK anyway anyway they don't.
Speaker 2:But like it was kind of like if something caught on it, like really caught on, I wonder what else you're going to talk about.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'm not the only one with focus problems this morning. You know what?
Speaker 2:I think not. I'm going to grab my coffee and see if I can get some cognition going.
Speaker 1:I'm also drinking black coffee, which I hate, but I don't like to have it until I've had something in my belly and I wasn't hungry yet, so this is sad coffee.
Speaker 2:So my coffee I don't even want to show you cause it's kind of throw up.
Speaker 1:Why is there lumps in it?
Speaker 2:There are. It's not milk, I promise. Um, it's my son's birthday, which we're not going to get in the weeds on that cause. He turned 18 and I already cried a lot today.
Speaker 2:Um, which is probably another reason. I'm just like, I'm sorry everyone. I keep talking about baseball, which my son's never played, so I don't know what's going on. Um, but I went out early this morning, got sunken donuts nice so I dipped my blueberry donut in my coffee. I was gonna say, is there birthday cake in your coffee? No, but it might as well be so, like you. So then you eat the donuts like coffee, but there's little pieces of donut that like sloughed off. It's an added surprise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's delicious, it's delicious. Donut coffee, yes, way better than this poo poo, yeah, but it's fine. I wasn't hungry. I even brought my breakfast and the thermos so I can eat it in between, but I could not wait for the coffee.
Speaker 1:That's actually kind of gross I wish you want to show me that now she's eating it. Oh, it's a piece of donut, it's just soggy. That's going on our socials like video clip. Okay, well, all right. So anyway, 1985 is when those purple logo buttons debuted. Yes, okay, we all have seen them. Even if you didn't live in that time, you have seen that book at logo button. Um, the first ones had like spots on it for star stickers. Okay, so, um, once you finished a book, your teacher would put us a star on the button to like fill it was like an outline for a star.
Speaker 1:Got it. So once you had I think there were five, once you had five stars on your button, then you got your little certificate. You could take your little booty to pizza hut and get your thing. Got it um and then, but then in later years they were just decorative, they. You didn't put stickers on it, they were just like fun ones but that's how they started. Um, they were phased out in the early aughts when everything went digital. Sad, that is sad I know they need to bring back.
Speaker 1:Bring back the book it buttons bring it back.
Speaker 2:Let's start it back and not like merch that we have to buy on instagram like earn the buttons it's reminding me of, just like punch cards, you know like now yeah to have, which also a lot of that's gone digital now too, like rewards programs through apps and stuff instead, but where, like you would do something or buy something, you get a punch and another punch, and another punch until your card was full and then you get the free whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most places don't really do that that way anymore, yeah I also think we need adult book it programs.
Speaker 1:That'd be awesome also of along those lines maybe. Okay, hunt, I know you're listening, he is so this summer katie. I told katie we need to like reread some zennial classics this summer and talk about them. We should have a zennial book club this summer. I love it and get hunt to make buttons and everybody who reads the books with us will get shipped a button I love that.
Speaker 2:Okay, hunt don't let us forget we'll get shipped a button. I love that. Okay, hunt, don't let us forget. So we'll get our schedule going and let everyone know which books they're going to need and what order we're going to read and talk about them.
Speaker 1:Everybody gets a button Button generation in between book club? I don't know.
Speaker 2:We'll figure out that later Zenial book club or Zenial book it, we'll think of something fun. Okay. And if you have, we'll pick the books at some point, but if you have suggestions, I do you texted me a few good ones.
Speaker 1:I know I said I already said Flowers in the Attic and anything by Judy Blume. Yeah, I mean anything.
Speaker 2:Anything.
Speaker 1:We've got to Probably. Are you there? Goddess Me read probably. I think that's it. I love that book and then we'll figure it anyway, we'll go from there, all right okay.
Speaker 1:So that's when the buttons came out. Um, a woman named Phyllis I could not find her last name. Weird because I read about her in a blog article interview, um, where this the guy, this guy, actually had dinner with Bud Gates, who was the executive, and um just kind of wrote about his like conversation with her. So it didn't have her last name. And then I was like Googling Phyllis book it program and it wasn't coming up. As often happens, women don't get the credit they deserve. So, phyllis, whatever your last name is, we're talking about you.
Speaker 1:So she actually became in charge of the program, which was weird. I couldn't find her name, but it drew on her experience. I know it drew on her experience as a librarian, so she's the one who came up with some innovative approaches like allowing kids to be rewarded for minutes spent reading or per book, cause when it started it was just per book.
Speaker 2:Right, and I could see how that would be the default, but it makes sense that it would take, like a librarian who works with children. I mean, if you struggle with reading.
Speaker 1:I mean I, I, I have never struggled with reading and my kids haven't. But you know a lot of kids, do you know? And computer die, no, no, it just she back girl. I was scared, my computer went black and y'all know my luck with technology. I was like great, but leave it to a woman to think of the details.
Speaker 2:Like that, yeah, like hey, you're leaving some kids out here Totally, and if the whole point is to, like you said, turn the need to read into the want to read, if you feel overwhelmed by five books that you're never going to get to, you just won't try.
Speaker 1:So here is something I hate with the Accelerated Reader Program they have in a lot of schools. Do we have those here? Did?
Speaker 2:you just get a chunk of donut. This is getting to be too much. We're done. We're done with the coffee. That face she was like oh.
Speaker 1:It's like a big chunk of donut in her copy. We're good, so we, we're good, um, so we've lived, you know, in various states in the united states and some schools had the ar program, some didn't. What I really hated was the schools we were in that made um, made it required the advanced reader program yeah, okay, or accelerated, accelerated sorry, yes, I, I think there's.
Speaker 1:And what would happen? So nobody. When we moved, I don't even remember where we lived. Like I said, I'm a big reader. Both of my kids were really voracious readers. Caden slowed down a bit in teenage land, as happens, and then hopefully, he'll come back to it yeah, um, but he read all the time.
Speaker 1:and what ended happening? Nobody told him that however many AR minutes or tests you take that year creates your goal for the next year. Oh no, which is I get it? That's accommodating your abilities and levels. So he read like 500 minutes or something. I don't it was a big number. So the next year he had to get like 600 minutes when everybody else in his class only had to get a hundred. Well, he was so stressed out because then he's like well, but this one book I want to read is this, this and this, and I have to take so many tests and la la tests. And it was so stupid.
Speaker 1:So then I thought well, that's even a disservice to somebody on the opposite end of this day because they anyway, um, I think, I think I like the three options that I mentioned in the beginning minutes, pages or books, yes, and I think you should be able to switch them around. I don't think you should just pick one like and then you know, cause you know, things change and reading, reading abilities change and vary and et cetera, Anyway, so that's that's my little feeling on that, but in okay, so that was 1985, a few years go by, um 1988, book it program had a little appearance on a show called Small Wonder. I love that show. For those of y'all that don't remember, that show came up in our I think it was TV theme songs.
Speaker 2:Because I sang it and you were like what I was like. What is that?
Speaker 1:TV theme songs. Yeah, that was a fun episode.
Speaker 2:She's a small, wonder lovely, and something and something, wow, something, and then it goes and she'll make your dreams come true. She was a robot, right, she was a robot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I actually did look it up on Google after that. I was like what a weird ass show. But it was so 80s.
Speaker 2:People love it. I know People loved it and it is a cult. I am people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I loved it.
Speaker 1:So anyway, bucket had a little appearance on uh on small wonder. So, and also shout out to our tv theme song episode go listen to it, you will crack up laughing. We need to do another one of those.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I was just thinking there were so many, we should do another one. Yeah, we need and we could flip, because didn't you do 90s and I did 80s. Is that how we did it? Uh, yeah, so we could flip. I could do 90s, do 80s, ones. We haven't done yet. Yeah, because you whistled, I did, you whistled, did the.
Speaker 1:X-Files. Wait, and I did 90210. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I got that one. I didn't get X-Files, oh yeah, because I did.
Speaker 1:I did All right, moving on.
Speaker 2:What an episode. We'll do another one, yes.
Speaker 1:Okay. So same year, 1988, october 3rd, arkansas Governor Bill Clinton actually issued an official proclamation to declare a book it day because he liked the program so much. He believed the program was an effective tool in motivating elementary students to read direct quote. So which I mean? I feel like it is, I mean it's it worked well and it's still working or it still wouldn't still be around. So a year later, 1989, national Young Readers Day was established with the help of Pizza Hut in the Center for the Book in the Library of Congress. Cool so Pizza Hut worked with the Library of Congress. Cool so Pizza Hut worked with the Library of Congress. Yeah, national Young Readers Day, which they still celebrate at school, they have like a, like a read-a-thon day sometimes. Yeah, so I mean part of me, I'm conflicted so far at this point in my research because I'm like all right, I don't like corporate corporations being involved in public education unless you're just giving them money.
Speaker 2:Yes, then pass it along. But I do feel like this was a positive thing. It really was, and that's what I was just thinking Like the obviously commercialism side, right, like we already talked about. But then Pizza Hut doesn't have to go the extra mile and be like sure we'll help establish this National Young Readers Day and work with. They could just be like no, like our programs, our program go away.
Speaker 1:We're making money off them.
Speaker 2:So the fact because, like you just said, that day still exists, so they were establishing something culturally that would outlive its program, even though it's still going. But in theory, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that National Young Readers Day, so that to me, you know, goes above commercialism and is actually a service to the community, yeah, and so I mean you know we'll talk more about, like some of the issues that people have seen with this program, but there's not many. Excuse me, 1997, Book. It is on the World Wide Web. They debuted their website, let's go.
Speaker 1:Big deal. That means you're a big deal. And then I'm just giving you a bunch of dates now and just showing you how. Not only has it continued, but it's like continued to like invest in young readers in different ways. Cool, so 2001,. They actually partnered with the U S department of education to promote summertime reading. Summertime reading to prevent that summer slide that happens to kids and it's called camp book, or maybe it's camp book it I maybe I forgot a word there.
Speaker 1:Camp book, camp book, but it's parents do it. Forgot a word there Camp book, camp book. But parents do it through a digital platform Parents or guardians, not teachers and it goes through June through August. So they created that. Bless you.
Speaker 2:You got me choking on donut coffee and sneezing, and I don't know I coughed at the beginning of the episode how dare I? Yeah, I can't book it can't book it.
Speaker 1:Okay, I missed a word. Oh, she had to make sure she corrected me.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you we're good, all right. So, um then, then this hit close to home for me. In 2005, when Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Rita struck, they donated more than 250,000 books to victims through the Book it program. Wow, cool, because those are things you don't think of, like if you are not, if you've never been part of a natural disaster, like you don't understand the big reach, right, you think, and I don't know if it was just like kids, or if it was schools as well, or libraries I'm not sure, I didn't go in the weeds there but you don't think about like, oh well, now schools are wiped out, there's no books, there's no nothing. You have to start over completely. So, anyway, so that was something they did to help, I'm assuming, schools, yeah, and then in 2007, I have never heard of this and I'm so embarrassed as a self-professed bookworm and I want to see if you've heard of this.
Speaker 1:Okay, america's Biggest Bedtime Story. It's an annual webcast. Okay, it was established in 2007 by the Book it program and it was to encourage parents to read to their children at home at night. Cute, well, I keep saying parents, but I need to say parents or guardians, guardians, um, the grownups the adults in the kids' lives.
Speaker 1:And so what they do? They get a big celebrity to read a kid's book on a webcast. Their first one they did in 2007 had John Lithgow oh fun, and I I forgot the name of the book um, he was the first um. They had justin beaver a few years later and he broke a record. He has had the most views. Of course, that was like right in beaver fever era, um, and then they had team tim tebow on there right before he got signed to his team.
Speaker 2:Whatever, I don't really like tim tebow, sorry, unpopular opinion, uh I'm, yeah, unpopular opinion, but whatever, I wonder if he played baseball, just not kidding, he probably did, I don't know athlete anyhow all right so that.
Speaker 1:So they established that. Okay to encourage bedtime reading, yeah, and. And then this I just threw in because, like I said, if if you have never done the program, you've seen the logo in 2009, urban outfitters actually requested the rights for the logo so they could print it on shirts and stuff. So that's when it kind of came back into the pop culture zeitgeist of and they did it in like a retro way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, got it.
Speaker 1:Because everything comes back. Look at our podcast, that's all we do.
Speaker 2:That's all we do.
Speaker 1:We're so glad I know I mean hey, um, and, like I said, you can still buy stuff directly from book it if you want. We we do. Follow them now on Instagram. I was like they have an Instagram. Let's go, let's do it anyway, anyway. So the 40th anniversary of book it was last year. I mean 40 years. Yeah, it's crazy. Right, it is um, and I I read an article by this new york journalist uh, new york times journalist.
Speaker 1:She went and interviewed book it alums cool so like people our age or probably a little younger too, um, they had pizza hut, sponsored like a pop-up event and um, you could go in for, for book it alums, and you could go in and get like a little pizza. And so she went and like camped out there and interviewed people just to see like, and all she had was positive things, said like, wow, people loved it. Um, and a lot of people said it really sparked their love of reading that has continued into adulthood. That's so great. So, and it said they, it helped them kind of to discover the joy of reading, not just for school but for fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that was like, and let me ask, and maybe maybe this is coming just in general were there any constraints on the books, For example? Was there like suggested reading lists, or was it literally just like between you and your teacher? Whatever, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm assuming it was the teacher that I couldn't find. I even. They even have like little um, like information tabs on their website that I read through. I don't know. I was trying to find that. I'm assuming it's probably the teacher. It's pretty open-ended, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think the teacher probably figures it out to a program like this, because I'm thinking of even accelerated reading, or reading counts is another one that my kids had to do when they were younger. It's not required anymore, I don't think, but or even like Sunshine State books here in Florida. Yeah, it's kind of like sort of a list or things are qualified Right, you know. So I think part of maybe what has made Book it so successful and people saying a love of reading is that the reading could be customized to the reader.
Speaker 1:And I think that was kind of the goal. Yeah Was the teacher who's working with kids and knows, hopefully, their reading. You know levels and abilities and kind of what they're into. Yeah, exactly so. Okay, so here were some criticisms. Of Book it Okay, all right. The first one is trusting the parent or guardian who signed the form.
Speaker 2:Okay, so they could forge it you mean Right, or just say they did it Because you did have to have your parents sign.
Speaker 1:Oh, oopsie, sign that you completed it. Okay, all right. So I actually read another new york times article, um, where the writer was saying her mom did lie on for on her sister's forms, because the writer herself was a big reader, like like I was and still am, still am. Um, so she didn't, you know, it was easy for her, but her sister was not. She struggled and but they were a low income family and this was before book. It had limits on how many certificates you could get.
Speaker 1:So, like the old and it was her younger sister, so the older sister, like you know, filled out hers, whatever, but the mom just kept adding ones for her younger sister. And so she was, like you know, filled out hers, whatever, but the mom just kept adding ones for her younger sister. And so she was like, hey, it's like free, free food for our family, right, and so that, like that, those free pizzas really helped them, yeah. But then it was kind of. The writer was saying it was kind of funny because at the end of the year there's like an award ceremony and the teacher came up to her mom and was like, oh my gosh, your daughter is like our star student. All these books she read and blah, blah, blah. And the writer was like. I saw my mom like lie to this teacher's face because she was trying to help our family.
Speaker 2:Like what are you going to do in that moment?
Speaker 1:Her sister got this award for reading 392 books that year. Oh my God, but think about it, that's 392. Well, I guess not 392 pizzas, but that's a lot of pizzas that help that family out. Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:So I think from Pizza Hut's standpoint they probably don't care, because either way they were still frequenting their business or whatever it must have happened more often than not, because now they have limits. Right.
Speaker 1:Which you know. Of course, lying is not the answer. Lying is not the answer, but also I think it's a glaring flashlight spotlight really not a flashlight on how our society doesn't take care of people and you have to lie to to make sure your ends are met. Like sure.
Speaker 1:Sometimes Sure, but anyway, um. So that was one of the criticisms. Okay, okay, is you have to be able to trust the adult, which is a valid criticism, I guess you know. Another criticism was that it encourages an external reward instead of the internal reward of the enjoyment of reading. But, as you just heard, when I told you Book it, alums said it really sparked their love of reading.
Speaker 2:Right, I think, as long. What is it like? The means meets the ends and justify the means. So if the end goal is a lifelong learner, a lifelong reader, then it's okay.
Speaker 1:if they got pizza along the way, well, and sometimes, sometimes you have to have that external reward first before that internal reward develops.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:This is very basic, but I was thinking about potty training.
Speaker 2:Oh, God, why were you thinking about that? No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1:Well because, like I had one kid who was very easy to potty train, that was Caden.
Speaker 2:And I'm just going to say exactly who it was.
Speaker 1:Cooper was harder.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we did have to do more of those external things you get this many stickers on your chart and you get this.
Speaker 1:For him to finally realize okay, the internal reward of not messing my pants Although I guess that's externally, isn't it? Yeah, that's not an internal or just knowing that, okay, I'm like in line with my peers, cause he's a little late to the game with that, and so it for him. It took a while, but sometimes you have to have that external stuff. Or even with like exercise, yeah, because as a personal trainer, that in in our like information before we got certified, external and internal motivation is talked about a lot, because people who are new to exercise and fitness have maybe have never done it in their life, you might need that external reward. Like, okay, if I go to the gym or go for a walk two times this week, then I get to buy myself a new book or something like that, since we're talking about reading you might need that at first, before that internal reward of oh, I set a goal and I hit it, like I'm you know, et cetera.
Speaker 1:So I don't know. I think that's kind of I think we both agree on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it. I think it has its place for sure. And yeah, it's tricky. Yeah, so it's tricky, I think in book its case totally fine, oh yeah, but in general, like it is certainly rewards attached to stuff. But then I think about like my own kids and it's like, yes, they should have pride in where they live, so therefore they should like take out the trash and do the dishes and all this, which I do for free, obviously, but also like when I, or even in school.
Speaker 2:Right, they should want to succeed at their schooling, but like I wouldn't go to my job if they didn't pay me.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying? Sure you would.
Speaker 2:And again it's different when it's your home and you need to help out. But like I get it, you know.
Speaker 1:Well and honestly, if money didn't matter.
Speaker 2:But money does matter unfortunately and there are a lot of things I put my time to that I don't get paid for yeah in the way that I, that I should like this podcast like this podcast, yes, and even even my studio businesses. Right now it's like, well, I'm not really making a living yet, no, but, you're still doing it, but, but it's because eventually I would like to. But you will, I will, it will happen. Remember my, I remember my word of the year breakthrough, breakthrough breakthrough.
Speaker 1:Here we come. So, interestingly enough, there was a psychological paper written about this in 1999. Yeah, it was published by Psychological Record, okay, and it was entitled Effects of Extrinsic. Okay, say that word, extrinsic.
Speaker 2:Okay, so even you're having a hard time with it. Effects of Extrinsic Whoa.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Extrinsic Reinforcement.
Speaker 1:Okay Effects of Extrinsic. Whoa yeah extrinsic reinforcement, okay, effects of extrinsic that's wrong whatever. Reinforcement for reading during childhood on reported reading habits of college students okay, so book it alums pretty much. Yeah, yeah. And here is part of their official conclusion of the study, when it was completed, that they published. These results provide no support for the myth that extrinsic rewards for reading undermine intrinsic interest in reading. Rather, extrinsic rewards for reading set the conditions where God damn it.
Speaker 2:These words why do they have to use them like five times? I don't know when?
Speaker 1:intrinsic motivation for reading may develop. Right so, it right.
Speaker 2:so it's saying it's fine, it's basically what we said okay, cool, so there you go, but proof in the pudding. Proof not just us being like I think it's fine, but like smart people who can say those words right, yeah, proved it exactly there you go exactly um.
Speaker 1:and then, of course, the biggest criticism is um inappropriate commercial commercialization of public schools by this big corporation I mean basically Pizza Hut exploiting schools for marketing purposes and for financial gain. So that's the biggest one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which we, we kind of touched on and I.
Speaker 2:That's why I have mixed feelings about it, but I feel like the positives outweigh that totally and and you have to have the resources to launch a program like this. So, like your average, you know, non-profit or grassroots organization, yeah, you might, on a local level, be able to pull off something like this, but not, and to the level that pizza hut did.
Speaker 2:So it is kind of like you have to have, and could they have? Well, they couldn't have really done it without attaching Pizza Hut, because then what's the reward? Right, and the reward is part of that. I'm not going to say the word, but the motivation, the extrinsic. I did it. Oh, my God, extrinsic, it happened.
Speaker 2:Okay, sorry, everyone, what were we talking about? Oh, so, yeah, you have to have pizza. What? What did you say? Like they couldn't, just so what I was hypothesizing Wow Dang, we're getting science-y Was that Could. Is there a world where pizza hut could have done this without putting pizza hut stamp on it? No, but there's not, because the reward was literally their product, right, right, so, yeah, it's commercialism and it's marketing in schools, but I mean, even at my schools, their sponsors put stuff in their, you know, on focus or in their folders or whatever. You get a coupon on a certain day to go get something and you know, look, that's the way our society is. And to your point earlier when you were talking about the mom who lied about the number of books she read.
Speaker 2:But the way that our society is set up is that it does rely on private businesses to handle a lot of social issues, which private businesses don't always do very well. But that's sort of our setup. It's like well, that's why we have to have fundraising and organizations that go ask for sponsors, because as a society we don't do it on our own or our government doesn't take care of it. Oh, adequately. Well, right, I mean, that's just our setup. It's true, it's capital. We rely on that capitalism, which in some cases, there are companies that that take that on.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you know, and so in this case at least, since that's how we're set up anyway, they did something good, and I mean I don't.
Speaker 1:I I do feel like the idea came from a good place, definitely, you know, like how can we like help kids, you know? But again it came because it was hitting close to home, absolutely, and you know, and anyway, I. So final opinion on book it, I'm here for it, me too I hope it sticks around forever.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna ask my kids. I mean, I don't recall any book none of my kids have done it I can't imagine they they have ever done it, because I would have noticed yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm actually surprised. When we lived in Missouri one of the times and they went to school and one of them went to school on the military base, One of them went to middle school right outside the gate and it was a rural area. Literally there was a pizza hut and a Sonic and that was it Okay For like 15 miles. So I'm surprised they didn't have a book.
Speaker 2:It yeah Program there, Cause like hello, yeah, and you don't have a lot of competing options, you guys it was a rough road.
Speaker 1:Sorry to all my friends who still live there. I'm glad I have a pizza hut, it sounds like so. Yeah, and it was a rough road. Sorry to all my friends who still live there.
Speaker 2:but they have a pizza hut, it sounds like. So, yeah, and it was. Unfortunately it was a pickup only. Yeah, oh, maybe that's why, though, maybe that's why okay, because then you would get it to go. Yeah, I, I'm guessing the amount of people that do book it now, even though it's still there, is pretty low. Yeah, and you know it's funny.
Speaker 1:I just thought about that. One time my husband's stepmom came to stay with the kids because we had to go somewhere for like two days and for his job two days and for his job and she came to stay with them. She's she was like, oh, let's go get something. She's so fun, like, she's like such a fun grandma. And she was like let's go get some food. And she was like, oh, there's a pizza hut. And in her head she's thinking, oh yeah, when my kids were young, like the pizza was so fun, she's like we can go in, sit down, and she didn't realize it was pickup only. So she was like we got there and she's like it was so disappointing because we just had to like sit there and wait for the pizza.
Speaker 2:I know I was like oh.
Speaker 1:I'm so sorry. I should have warned you.
Speaker 2:But yeah, anyway, that's it. That's all I got. This was so fun and I love how it has inspired our summer reading program of our own.
Speaker 1:Can't wait we're gonna think about fun. Maybe it could be. I mean, would we get in trouble for saying book it probably?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I mean probably not.
Speaker 1:I mean, would they even know? Probably because I'm going to tag them. And then why wouldn't they listen to this episode?
Speaker 2:I guess we can find out, because.
Speaker 1:I was saying we could do Book it 2.0.
Speaker 2:I love that Book it 2.0.
Speaker 1:But like we don't even have any money coming in, Well, we have what Like $20 a month, I think it's like $28. So we'd be like y'all can sue us, but what? You gonna get Nothing.
Speaker 2:Right, true, but if we're assigning books, it's not book it oh, facts you know what I mean? Okay, we'll take it whatever all right, we can brainstorm off air with something all right. Thanks guys for joining us for joining hope.
Speaker 1:It was a fun trip down memory lane. Yes, if you like this and you want more, become a patron and get our bonus episodes all of them yes, no, half of them.
Speaker 2:You, half of them. You get half of them, get all of our bonus episodes. It's what?
Speaker 1:Eight bucks a month, eight dollars a month, help us out, and hey. What we really need, though, is for y'all to go give us reviews and go follow us on YouTube and join the 15 other people who follow us.
Speaker 2:It's up to 23.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, so y'all are listening 15 other people who follow. It's up to 23. Oh, okay, so y'all are listening Also. Yeah, just give us a like and a follow and share us. Share us on your socials, tag us and things. We absolutely love it when people send us things we've missed. Yeah and hey, you'll get a shout out, Cause we'll. We'll try really hard to say it on air.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it on air. Yeah, why do I always say on air Like we're a radio show? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess we're not live, but we are like sound waves.
Speaker 2:We are broadcasting, we are sound waves, we are actual sound waves. All right, guys, till next time, see you later, bye.
Speaker 1:Bye everybody.
