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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek, S2 E3: Date Nights and Alternative Lifestyles
The proposed open marriage between Mitch and Gayle is heating up, but will they find excitement on their separate Thursday night date nights? Plus an Economics project has Jen feeling all types of ways about Dawson, while Joey finishes the project on her own.
We're rewatching Dawson's Creek, Season 2, on Hulu (Jan. 2025). Join us!
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Hello everyone and welcome back to our latest Nostalgic or Problematic where we are re-watching Season 2 of Dawson's Creed. We are on Season 2, episode 3 today, and it is entitled Alternative Lifestyles oh, my gosh, that name. Here's the summary A class assignment gives Jen a chance to win Dawson back as Pacey learns the truth about Andy's wealth. Yep, with a lot of other things in between, but yes, also, this was the first time I watched Dawson's, not on Amazon, because it is now on Hulu. Is that where it was? I paid for it. I paid $2. Girl, no, it's on Hulu for free money. Well, I mean, you paid for Hulu, but Well, so Amazon got two more of my dollars. What are you going to do? Remember, we just talked about this, I know, I just, I don't know. It came up and said do you want to pay $2? Sure, well, now you know you don't have to. Okay, all right. So here we go with this episode. For those of you who are new here, quick explanation. What we do on Nostalgic or Problematic is we rewatch things from the 80s and 90s and we discuss are they nostalgic or problematic? Yep, basically that's it. Ta-da, yeah, basically that's it. And Danny uses happy faces and frowny faces and I use hearts and X's, yeah, and sometimes I don't use anything. I just have a feeling about something or something you want to talk about. So we don't know, I mean, not all of it is like that is problematic, that is nostalgic, that's not. It's not it's. It's a lot deeper. It's a little deeper than that. And if you're watching us on YouTube, um, I still have on my Rainbow Cheetah onesie from our Lisa Frank documentary episode. So go check that out if you haven't yet. I love that. So let's jump in. Okay, so the opening.
Speaker 1:So before the intro music plays, is Dawson and his dad mostly talking about sex, and if he's having sex with joey, and it's basically just dawson's dad being a parent, yeah, trying to talk about the importance and understanding the consequences, all the things you would think, and dawson just being an antagonist, I mean. But also he like tells his dad, I'm a sexual being. Ew, Would you ever say that to your parents? No, never in a million years I wouldn't even say that to my parents now, at 44. Well, he said something like I'm a sexual being and his dad's like are you and Joey having sex? He goes no, but I'm a sexual being or whatever, like he was just kind of pointing out that at any moment it could happen, I don't know, but ew, but I did think it was interesting because the dad was doing this whole. We would never make out in front of our parents, we would sneak around or whatever. And Dawson's like so what's the difference if you're sneaking around doing it in a car, or I'm just here at my house doing it, and Dawson's dad says well, I think parents should at least make it harder for kids to do that, or something like that. That was kind of his rationale. I mean, there's a difference in doing it without like like dawson's like, just like. Here I am, like I'm just gonna be making out of my bed and right then, like we talked about this last episode, then like what's the word I'm looking for? My brain is just like flatlining, yeah, um, then like being blatant about it and then being okay with it and just not in the face about it, maybe, right, I think too. It just is very.
Speaker 1:Any of us that were teenagers at that time, that's probably our, what our parents' attitudes were too. Was your mom like that? What? Very like not in my house? Uh, it was kind of weird. Bedroom doors shut. Oh yeah, I wasn't Well and my house setup was different than our setup.
Speaker 1:Like our floor, like we have an open floor plan, so like the living room is in the middle, so the bedrooms, like you know, and then we have our loft area. But in my house growing up it was like the bedrooms were out in the way back in the house, Right. So that was a no boy zone for Danny. Like I was not allowed to have boys back in my bedroom at all. We had to be in the front of the house because we had, like, our living room and then, like a front room area.
Speaker 1:But I don't know, my mom was weird because, like she would, she would leave, she would let me have my boyfriend there in the house. And I had a serious boyfriend for a while when I was like an upperclassman, and when she wasn't there, sometimes she would and my grandma would like get so mad at her about it. But she would say, well, they're going to do what they're going to do, whether they're in a parked car on the on the side street or they're in my house, right. But sometimes that would freak me out so bad that she like knew I was there. It prevented things from happening.
Speaker 1:Interesting, I say sometimes, sometimes, yeah, like there was still plenty of making out happening, but like, yeah, and my mom, you, you know she was a single parent at the time and was working, and so like she literally had to just be like figure shit out because, yeah, there's only so much you can monitor, correct? Yeah, and she is right, my parents were pretty strict about it, but same thing, like they were both working by the time I was a teen, but then I had younger brothers, so if I wasn't supposed to have someone over, like they would tell on me or our neighbors would see. So generally I wouldn't have a boy over unless they said it was okay which they never did if they weren't there. But yeah, yeah, and I even remember coming home from college, my college boyfriend came with me and normally he would sleep in a different room and I don't even remember we were up late and we both fell asleep in my room. I don't even think he was on the bed and by the time we woke up in the morning my dad had left us a really not nice note, whoa, and we were probably like 20 or 21. That's hilarious, and it was basically like about the disrespect of it and it was bad, and I didn't really care. I was kind of like I was like, fine, we'll just go back to college and sleep in the same room there, yeah. But my boyfriend was like so upset, he was so embarrassed, yeah, and I was just like it's fine, like well, you know, it's your parents, yeah, it's like I don't care that much, but he was like mortified. That's funny.
Speaker 1:I remember when my boyfriend came home with me from college for something I don't know, and I was like 20, 21. And my mom, he stayed in the room with me but my mom brought like an air mattress in there. So it's like she was kind of like just, I guess, to make herself feel better. It's the suspension of disbelief. But then also it also put in my head well, like, oh, like I don't know, like it was just yeah, maybe he should sleep on the air mattress, yeah, and he did, he did, he totally did, and so I mean it's just funny because I don't know my mom was weird. I feel like she was not that strict. But then also, I don't know, yeah, I don't know Like, yeah, I just thought that it. I thought that whole opening scene was just was sort of funny. It was funny, um, and then we go into the opening sequence which has the other song. Now, yeah, it still throws me off. I know, um, okay.
Speaker 1:So then the episode starts and I know it was common for the time and it's still common now, but it kind of bugs me when people make fun of jocks in such a stereotypical way, like jen and abby did. I know Jen and Abby are supposed to be not nice and snarky, but they're like they're so stupid and they're Neanderthals and da-da-da-da-da and it's like, okay, but what? Because they play on a sports team. Well, there was a lot of toxic stereotypes in this episode. Yes, in this episode, for sure, and I realized TV of the time. But I think when I watched that younger I probably was just like, oh, yeah, they're dumb, but this time I was like that really bothered me. Yeah, because you have athletes in your house, you know. Yeah, right, right, and it's just we wouldn't want them to say whatever about the band geeks or about the whatever. So, like it's, why is it okay to make fun of people to play sports, right? I don't know that. It goes back to the whole like having stereotypes of any kind is is problematic because it does you. You have assumptions about people and everything's under one umbrella. So I didn't like that.
Speaker 1:So then we we've got where Andy is frantic because she doesn't have the notes from her economics class. I could totally relate to that. Yeah, she had missed the notes or not taken. She lost her notes or hadn't taken notes. And they're about to go into class where they're going to have a discussion about it. So for some reason she's asking Pacey for the notes. She doesn't know him well enough yet. That's true. Who does not have notes? And his best advice? She's like what do I do if he calls me? And he's like just say pass. She's like what? And he's like just say pass. And of course then the teacher calls on her. She doesn't know the answer, so she passes. And the funniest part of all that to me was the camera shows Pacey giving her a thumbs up. I camera shows Pacey giving her a thumbs up. I thought that was so funny. I could totally relate to her like panic.
Speaker 1:I used to get a lot of anxiety with school because I was a good student, except for the F and P I had. Oh yeah, except for that, I had one nine weeks. My first nine weeks of my freshman year of high school was awful and that was my only time I ever made bad grades and I had a lot going on like emotionally and mentally, and so it. Then the second nine weeks I was grounded. The entire nine weeks I did nothing fun Cause.
Speaker 1:My mom was like, hey, in my house only A's and B's were accepted because they knew that my sister and I, that was our best work. You could do it. Yeah, now, if we had a C and there was times I did get every now and then I would get a C in. You could do it. Yeah, now, if we had a C and there was times I did get every now and then I would get a C in, like math, of course, um, and it was because. But they were like, if you're getting a C and you're working or even anything lower than that, but you have put all your effort into it, like you've gone for help, you've spent all the time, if that is your best work, then we'll accept it, of course. But thankfully, I mean, my sister and I were never really struggled a lot in school, except for PE. Except for PE, I struggled in math. Let me, let me fix that. I did. But once I had tutoring and stuff I did a lot better. I was back to being an A or B student.
Speaker 1:But anyway, what was I talking? Oh yeah, so I would panic about doing well in school and I can remember that kind of anxiety of like, oh my God, oh my God, I'm not prepared. Yes, oh yeah, I mean that happens to me now. Oh yeah, if I'm like going into a work meeting and I remember, oh crap, they're going to ask me about this thing that I didn't look at yet or whatever, yeah, I mean it happens, and so I totally related to that. But then I wish we could be more like Pacey's Pacey, I know. So then we go into the actual project that they're going to do, right, yeah, so they're going to do this micro economics project. So, yeah, they, they pair off, except at the end, joey off, except at the end. Joey's the last one left, so she's a single person working on this.
Speaker 1:Um, and the teacher gives them different economic variables. Yeah, you're married and you have this job and you have that job. You make x amount per year. Um, we had the same sex couple, which let's talk about that for a second, which was the two, two stupid jocks. Of course I like that. The teacher like the way the teacher included it was not like no, the teacher was like, okay, you'll be a same-sex couple. Yeah, it was very casual, but I didn't like that. It was a running joke the whole episode. I did not like that. It was good and bad. The way the teacher presented it as just like, this is a normal part of our economy, yeah, was good. Um, and then when they actually presented the project at the end, the two of them kind of owned the project, I felt like, but I still felt like it was from like a comic point. Everyone else was kind of laughing at it, but to me, the two people in it presented it seriously. I don't know, I don't know, I just watched for that, but everyone else was like.
Speaker 1:The whole narrative around it, though, was the 90s homophobia. Yeah, I was like, oh my god, it's so funny that they're gay. Gay is a joke, right, mostly. And and also, you're taking this, what is supposed to be the stereotypical straight male athlete and say like it's so preposterous that they would be like a gay couple. Why? Yeah, because that's feeding into harmful stereotypes of what gay and straight or even is or looks like, or right, whatever, and athletes too, and athletes too, yeah. So I just so that that did not age. Well, no, no, and then.
Speaker 1:So then what ends up happening is is, joey is on her own because everyone gets paired off with I can't remember his name, yeah, that poor kid, but he's a stereotypical, quote-unquote, dorky dork I guess, although he seemed nice enough and he's serious about the project, and she just keeps rolling her eyes and like belittling him. No, how about you just do it, put my name on it. And then she says this line to to. Actually, I don't think she was talking about him. I think she was talking about Dawson. When she's trying to convince Jen to just like put herself out there and try to get, she says she said something about how Dawson's not like that or whatever, and Abby's like he's jerking his gherkin and humping the mattress every morning.
Speaker 1:I was laughing so hard, I was dead. I was like, wow, what a line. I was laughing so hard. Well, because I also wrote down in that scene. She said he's a 15-year-old boy, he doesn't know what love is. And I was like, oh, actually correct, good job, abby. But yeah, I was laughing super hard about that. Yeah, that whole, that whole setup. So essentially, abby's trying to sort of pressure Jen since she has this one-on-one time with Dawson for the project, to kind of throw herself at him, which, again, jen doesn't have to do what Abby says, but it's bad advice. Well, jen's not in a good place, she's vulnerable.
Speaker 1:But again, their clothes, the whole 90s vibe was bringing me back. It was really good. The little slip dresses, oh my God, the floral everything, the floral everything. I loved here for it, here for it. I have to you that I didn't. I mean, I get that it's part of the arc of the show and it kind of resolves itself at the end.
Speaker 1:But when Joey tells her sister repeatedly she doesn't want her advice on her project, yeah, because Joey tells her sister repeatedly she doesn't want her advice on her project, yeah, because joey tells her sister who is she? A single mom now, okay. So I wrote down on here, I wrote what happened to her boyfriend also, where the hell is bodie the boyfriend have they even addressed that? Like where he is, no, okay, well, they're not married. I knew they weren't married, but I was like, where did he go? I remembered, like in the first season. He like went somewhere but like he came back. He was like on a business trip, like it was when she was in labor, yeah, but he came back. Yeah, he came back. They talked about it and we just forgot. Like where the fuck is he? I have not heard a word about it.
Speaker 1:But the implication in this scene was that joey's sister is saying you're doing a project, as a single working mom, I can give you advice. And Joey's just like well, no offense, I don't want to be like you, so you're not the person I want to ask. You're not exactly doing a great job. Yeah, basically. Yeah, pretty much. And oh man, the whole scene. I was just like infuriated. I was just like you've got to. And when they're meeting they're like, oh, we would get this kind of apartment and we would like have this or that. And Pacey's like I need a Viper. A Viper, let's go so stupid. And teenage boy and him and Andy were partners. But I just wrote down.
Speaker 1:I remember thinking about all that grown up stuff, like at that age, like the kind of stuff I was going to want, like where I wanted to live, I had kind of apartment I wanted to have, et cetera. Yeah, I had dreams that I was just going to leave after high school and go to New York. I mean, that's what I was a grownup thing and I really wanted to do that. I really really wanted to. In fact, it's funny, you know, when you have yearbooks or whatever. We had these things at my school that were like senior, like scrapbooks almost, that everybody would order, like the company that made our like class rings, like Jostens or whatever the hell it was, and you would like write messages in there instead of yearbooks.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I found mine, not probably when we started recording, and I was like, going through all this stuff and so many people in there wrote I can't wait to see what you do on Broadway, and like all this stuff. It was so funny and I was like, oh, dream big little Danny, it's okay, hey, look, we got to dream big at that age and at this age, um, but anyway, yeah, I just remember being like, oh, remember being that age, that age and the world was your oyster, yeah, and and you thought, when I get out of college, I'll have a great job and a great home and a great car, or if I don't go to college and I just go work, like, whatever it is, you're getting close to the age where you can make those decisions Right, and so in your head you're going to do things a certain way or go a certain place or do it different than your parents or your siblings or whatever. And I just that kind of like the feeling that you can't really explain to people that age, that that's not always how it goes. It never is. You just have to figure it out as you go. Yeah, but anyway, I just wrote that down.
Speaker 1:What else do you have? I wrote here's a random tidbit. So Jack Kerr Smith is the name of the actor. He was the second oldest cast member. Guess how old he was when he filmed the season 23? He was. He ended up. I think he started it at 26 and finished at 27. Wait, how old was the girl who played Andy 29.
Speaker 1:Wow, what, they don't look like it Right At all. What they don't look like it Right At all. What I mean? Especially now, people look younger, much older. But I feel like, isn't that wild Almost 30 years ago? Yeah, that's wild that they look so young.
Speaker 1:But to be fair, when I was 29, I probably well, did I ever tell you the story of what happened to me when I was in college and I graduated like we did quarters instead of semesters. So I graduated, um, like in the fall quarter after, like I was like a extended senior long story. But anyway, I had like in between time where I didn't have classes, like days, whole days where I wouldn't have classes. So I would substitute teach and they always needed substitute teachers at middle school because nobody likes to sub middle school. I got called one time mid-morning because the teacher got sick at school and they needed me to come. So I showed up at like 9.30, 10.
Speaker 1:The halls are empty and I'm like racing down the hallway and at the time I had really long blonde hair, whatever, and I'm sure I was dressed like 22 year olds dress. And this teacher stopped me and said ma'am, I need to see your hall pass. And I said what? Or they didn't, obviously didn't say ma'am, well, whatever they said, maybe, actually, maybe they did because it was the south, yeah, everybody might have. And I was like what? And they're like why are you out of class? And I was like because we didn't have badges, guys, this was was in two, like 2001. You don't have a big yellow sticker. No, I had nothing, except I was walking down the hall Like I had my purse or whatever. And they're like they thought I was a student. Oh, that's awesome. Not even high school guys, middle school.
Speaker 1:I wonder if, once you started talking to her, it occurred to her no, I said my name is Mrs Thompson, I'm subbing for whoever, and they were so embarrassed and they were like, oh, I'm so sorry. So, by the way, for somebody who looks like they're in middle school, subbing in middle school does not go well, they do not listen to a damn word. I mean, to be fair, I don't think they listen to anyone, but it's probably especially bad if you look like that, yeah, or you're small like them. So, to be fair, when I was 29, I probably could have passed for a high schooler. Yeah, guaranteed. I mean they do, right, I don't look at them and go, oh, why do they look so much older than everyone? Right, they look the age. It's not like, oh, what's her face? Who was on 90210? Gabrielle Reese or whatever? Yeah, no, she played Andrea. Andrea, she took. She was in her thirties, I think. Yeah, she wild. And they put, the way they dressed and styled her made her look older, oh, which is weird.
Speaker 1:But anyway, okay, moving on, I love and also on that we're talking about Andy and Jack. I love the banter between Andy and Pacey. It's just fun. I know it's so fun, it's just cute. It's like moonlighting or cheers or whatever. Yeah, he's always razzing her and he gets the exact response he wants and she's a little like frantic and like wide-eyed, but she gives it back to him. That's what I think makes it like you don't really like get mad at Pacey, I know, because she's kind of flirtatious in a way and she's giving it back to him as well, you know. So I love that too.
Speaker 1:I wrote this down and this happens, I guess, twice in the episode Jen in Dawson's bedroom and then I just put cringy Jen in Dawson's bedroom. Oh, it's backward. Dawson is in Jen's bedroom when they're doing their assignment. Oh, I thought you were saying Jen and I was like no, no, yeah, oh, I wrote. Oh, yeah, I wrote for Jen, whichever bedroom they were in. Yeah, and he's uncomfortable, yeah, and he's just trying to do the assignment.
Speaker 1:And she kept trying, she kept trying. It was almost painful to watch, cause I remember how that feels and you just keep trying and it's not landing and uh. And then so she like tries to play it off and she walks out the room all confident, but as soon as she turns the corner off, and she walks out the room all confident, but as soon as she turns the corner, did you see, like, yeah, she was like, oh my god, she was crumble, crumble and embarrassed and rejected all over again, like it's just a sadness, oh, it's so sad, uh. And then I also just put, even though we've already talked about this before jen's haircut really is so cute. I know it's adorable. I had a similar haircut during that time. Oh, I did, but it's so cute. Well, it was similar to hers. It was more along the lines of like Rachel from Friends, like it totally was one, so a little longer than what she had, a little bit, but then I went a little bit shorter, so maybe it was pretty similar. I'll have to look at the pictures. It's adorable.
Speaker 1:But also, speaking of sadness and loneliness, mitch and Gail, okay, so when they were like, oh, let's have date night and both of them try to go out and like cruise for somebody, right, so it's date night, but not with each other, right, thursday nights, which is just such a like non-romantic way to approach it. Anyway, right Thursday nights we're going to go out on our own, separately, and if we meet someone or sparks fly, then whatever happens happens, but only on Thursdays, and we have to tell each other about it. I thought that was weird. Yeah, that's weird too, but I mean all the rules are different, but granted, I mean, if that's their groundwork, fine, yeah, but also I groundwork, fine, yeah. But also I thought that was not a great example, because it's only one person who was really okay with it.
Speaker 1:Gail wasn't really right, so, but then, like the, the thing that made me sad and you could feel the loneliness was when they both came home that night and they're like, oh, how was your night? And they both lie and they're like, oh yeah, I did this. And then they get in bed and they're both just like laying there and it's just so sad. And then she turns away from him at the end yeah, she, I noticed that, but they were just like. She turns on her side, so her back is to him and he kind of looks at her and then just turns out the light. It's like, oh yeah. So their first, uh, thursday date night didn't go great.
Speaker 1:I loved when uh, pacey was talking to andy and he says he's the black sheep of the family and that won't change Meaning, like no matter what he does, he always will be. I just loved that. Oh, okay, so this is a little TV reference. Did you ever watch the show Bones? Uh-huh, so I put the successful career woman that Joey follows around was on Bones. Oh, she was. She was the director of the Forensic Science Institute or whatever. I'm watching her and I'm listening to her voice and I'm like who is that? And I realized it was her. I didn't write down her name, but that's her.
Speaker 1:Um, and then she lets joey like look at her design and joey's like well, and this is very 90s, yes, because now we've got all these electronic ways that servers will do your order. She's like well, this floor plan that you all are working on won't work because you can't have the bar on one side and the kitchen on the other, because then you have to turn in your kitchen tickets on one side and your bar tickets on another and your servers are just going to be running around. And of course they're like genius. I know, thank you, joey, for telling us that You're so talented. And now like who cares? You just hit send. But also it's like they probably would have figured that out on their own, yeah, but I get it.
Speaker 1:But also tv. It inspired joey and she did say to dawson she goes. It made me feel like I can own my own business one day, yeah, and I was like, okay, you go, joey. But I also I think too on that, like whenever her and bessie like have a combo after all, that like once like Joey's feeling kind of bad, that she made Bessie feel bad or whatever. I think they did a good job showing like Joey struggle with wanting to just be a teenager and have fun, but then also loving her sister and wanting to help her too. Yeah, like I think they did a good job showing, like you know, I think they did a good job showing like you know. And then they did a good job with Bessie showing like she's like nope, you don't have to work here anymore. And then Joey's like no, I want to. I'm sorry. And that is a tricky place to be for both of them, right, because Bessie needs her help but also wants her to be a kid, but needs her help and, but also wants her to be a kid, but then Joey wants to be a kid but then also wants to help. You know, like, yeah, and I think they're a good job of that. Yeah, I thought they did a good job of that too.
Speaker 1:And I thought that Bessie was very vulnerable in that conversation, which I thought was an interesting choice, and I liked it because typically it's like the pair the parent figure is a little more mature and wise, and then the other person, but even in that scene she was like she's like Bessie, I admire you. She's like really Like what do you mean? I mess everything up. And I thought that was very cool, like I thought that was really well done. Well, it helps them show to like Bessie's her sister, not her parent, true, right, that's not her parent, true, right? That's a good point. And I think that's a good point to make because she's had to take on responsibilities of parents, but she's still just her sister, correct? So that's a different relationship, that's different.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, another line did you list? Did you hear, when abby said opportunity is not a lengthy visitor? No, and that's from christmas carol. That's a christmas carol line. I mean, it's in the book, but then it's also in the one we did, and it's in the Muppet Christmas Carol. Wow, the Christmas past ghost one in Muppet Christmas Carol says opportunity is not a lengthy visitor. That's my least favorite Muppet ghost in that. Well, there you go, that's why I didn't remember it. But Abby, well, there you go, that's why you didn't remember it. But abby said it and didn't say that's from christmas carol. But I was like that's from christmas carol reference. Yeah, that was a fun reference.
Speaker 1:Um, let's see what else do I have? I only have one more thing. Okay, what is it? And my last sentence was boo tamra is back at the end of the episode. Oh, my god, I have tamra.
Speaker 1:Exclamation points yes, so, um, at the end of the show you see, see Pacey walking by. Was it a convertible or was it just yeah? So it's like this red convertible and she's got sunglasses on and it like zooms in and you see her head swivel to like watch him walk by. It was really, really gross. Let me see if I had anything else important. I think I just wrote down lines. I liked he was walking with Andy, he was walking with Andy. So we know what the next episode, episode four, is sure to bring. It's actually entitled Tamara's Return. Oh man, okay, well, make sure you guys tune in next time for literally Tamara's Return, and make sure you listen in to our regular episodes as well and follow us over on Patreon. Yes, thanks for re-watching season two with us, or at least listening as we re-watch it. We appreciate it and we'll see you next time, guys. All right, bye.
