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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek, S2 E2: Sex Talks and Forgotten Birthdays
On the next installment of our Dawson's Creek rewatch, we talk about sex... or, talk about how the characters talk about it (1998 style). A few highlights from the "Crossroads" episode include Pacey's forgotten birthday, Dawson reading Joey's diary, Jen's continued struggles and the return of Abby.
You can watch the series along with us on Amazon Prime (as of Jan. 2025).
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Hello listeners, Welcome back to our installment of Nostalgic or Problematic, where we are rewatching one of our beloved shows of the past, Dawson's Creek. We already did season one last year, so if you missed that, go back and tune in. We are now on season two, so this week we are talking about season two, episode two, which is entitled Crossroads. The summary of the show everyone, or the episode, I mean. In a rapidly changing world, for shit, that's not the right one. That's the actual summary.
Speaker 2:So we're having trouble because, first of all, I wrote down this is Katie. By the way, I wrote down that the name of the episode was x-ray, because I saw that on my screen, but that was just um amazon prime asking me if I wanted to like yeah, use that thing which by the way.
Speaker 1:What is that, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:I don't. Is it like blu-ray but x-ray?
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know. It's not the name of the episode, though. Now watch it on a Blu-ray player. I don't know what's going on. Okay, here's the correct summary. Dawson's preoccupation with Joey causes him to forget Pacey's 16th birthday. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Speaker 2:So sad.
Speaker 1:That sounds it came out. For those who are wondering, it was released in October 13th 1998. Wow, I didn't realize it had the OG dates on there yeah that's pretty cool. Where were you in October?
Speaker 2:13th 1998? Okay, so I would have been a junior in high school.
Speaker 1:That was when I was no. You would have been a senior right.
Speaker 2:No, because I graduated in 2000. Oh right, I thought you graduated the year after me. Two years, yeah. So I would have been a junior. So I would have been maybe in my chemistry class talking about this, because everyone in my chemistry class Just chemistry, just chemistry. Well, we had a group in that class that would talk about Dawson's. Creek Okay.
Speaker 1:And we would get in trouble because we were always talking about Dawson's Creek. I love that. So I was in college and we used to go. I think I told you this we couldn't live in our sorority houses because the small town had an ordinance where if you had more than five females living in a house it was considered a brothel. Oh my goodness, now the fraternities could live in their houses. They had these big, huge houses.
Speaker 1:They lived in. We had small houses that were just made for meetings, but anyway we also had like a little living area so you could go up there. We had like a key code and we would go up there and watch Dawson's.
Speaker 2:That's so fun.
Speaker 1:Like little watch parties. Yeah, not all the time.
Speaker 2:Was it on? What night was it on? I don't know. We'll have to look that up. I don't know. Listeners if you remember tell us Okay, so the episode is not called X-Ray, it's called Crossroads. Yes, so okay, and that was a good summary. Yeah, Obviously like. That's like the main plot, but there's little side plots going on too. So, first of all, that opening where the infomercial is on the TV and they're making out and they're making out Hilarious. That was like memories, though.
Speaker 1:Oh, for real.
Speaker 2:Because I feel like if you had someone to make out with during that time period, at some point you probably made out with them during an infomercial just playing on the TV, because you would just turn the TV on and then whatever else came on, and then if you got distracted with your person, it would just play.
Speaker 1:That just person. It would just play that. It just hit me.
Speaker 2:That was like the first uh version of netflix and chill it was infomercials, seriously infomercials, and make out it doesn't have the same ring as netflix and chill, but right, but yes, and. And the infomercial was funny because obviously it was made up, but it was because it was like make pasta and fresh hot dogs no, that was real, I think what? Yeah, I thought they were just making fun of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were like making noodles. No, no, no, no. That, I think, was a real infomercial.
Speaker 2:I mean you can make noodles, but the same thing can make noodles and hot dogs. I will do a circle back.
Speaker 1:Okay, do a circle back when we record.
Speaker 2:Well, the fact that, like you can't tell if it's real or not, like I couldn't tell if it's real or not, just tells you how ridiculous the infomercials were at that time.
Speaker 1:But I always wanted to be on one, did you too? Oh yeah, and like the Home Shopping Network, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, like QVC is over in Tampa, it is, and sometimes I get yeah, that's where they're headquartered that I get casting notices for that. Sometimes Shut up, yes, I would.
Speaker 1:The best thing about QVC is you just have to talk the whole time Like you can't stop talking, right, hello, you're going to pay me money to just keep, and they say weird shit sometimes. Have you ever watched that? And I just be like this is such a beautiful brooch. It reminds me of my grandma's brooch, and she lived in Indiana grandma's brooch and she lived in indiana.
Speaker 2:But they just like, yeah, well, they have to. Yeah, um, it's great. Anyway. There was one that was like a full-time gig and it was like 160 000 a year, but it wasn't in tampa, that particular one. You had to live in new york and it was like every day, so it's not like, oh, I can just like fly to new york and do this job or whatever, cause that's so easy I thought of it, but but the ones in Tampa?
Speaker 2:what I'll get is like the show's already got a host or whatever. And you're coming on like to wear the clothes or and it's not a ton of money it's like could help build your profile. I've heard people that get in there like get a lot of work, like once you're in the door they just keep calling you.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying you need to get your foot in the door. Man. I told you like once I let go of the pink hair, then I think I'll do it. I think I'll start.
Speaker 2:I mean the pink hair might be an advantage. Not really, you don't think?
Speaker 1:I don't think so and I'm too old for it to be an advantage. I think if I was younger, yes, right, right but I see what you're saying.
Speaker 2:They're looking for just kind of like the plain jane mom, if you want somebody that looks like they're in their 30s or 40s.
Speaker 1:You probably don't want somebody who has pink hair, unless it's very, very, very specific do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, and and also like, especially with things like that, they want you to sort of look generic. That's what it is, because if you show up with pink hair, it actually probably, at least for filmed stuff yeah, it hurts your chances for another job because it's so memorable, correct? They want, like the person who's on the qvc ad, to to not be super recognizable as a person in the ashley furniture commercial or the disney commercial. So for those listeners who don't know, tampa's like three hours from us, so that's pretty far back.
Speaker 1:It's a horrible drive yeah, it's literally on the other side of the state, so much traffic so for me.
Speaker 2:I've put in for a few things just to see, but it's like it's not enough money for it being so far away to do all the time. Unfortunately it's not just in like melbourne. I'll be nice, just go work there orlando orlando I go anyway, whatever moving on. Okay, so the infomercial. Okay so this there. There are a few layers to this that I want to unpeel. So first of all, Dawson's parents. Catch them making out. God, that's like.
Speaker 1:I don't ever want to catch my kids making out Me either.
Speaker 2:I say that on purpose.
Speaker 1:I do too. Same no, which is funny because two of our children are dating, and so it's nice that we're just like we don't want to know, so just be quiet. I'll talk to you about it afterward. But, um well, also too, like it's part of being a teenager. Like it is, you're gonna make out, and I'd rather you be making out in my house on a couch than in a car parked in some weird deserted street totally agree because it's gonna happen.
Speaker 2:It's gonna happen, yeah, so okay, so the parents catch them, but then she still spends the night she did. Yes, in the morning is when they confront them with the books and stuff.
Speaker 1:But she was coming back in. She left because she was walking back in their house from their porch, because she came across Gail on the porch, but I thought she was leaving the house. No, she was coming up to the door, because, as she was coming up to the door, gail got her and then Dawson came out.
Speaker 2:Okay, I guess I didn't see that right Because.
Speaker 1:I thought that would have made no sense.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's what bothered me. And then it was a school day, so I was like she spent the night.
Speaker 1:No, because she was walking back up Because she was like she didn't see her there at first, and then Gail was like Joey.
Speaker 2:And she was like oh okay, I thought it was like reverse, she was trying to like leave without being noticed.
Speaker 1:Well, they were trying to go to school, but she like got it creaked on over on the rowboat or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course she rode herself over, which they didn't show. Um, and so then, for listeners that didn't watch it yet, um, so then gail dawson's mom has this whole book. It was called like what was it called reproduction and repercussions, or something? I?
Speaker 1:am so a mom that gives books because I don't want to do it. Yeah, I, I still have one I need to give to cooper and it's like I've put it off. It's so bad, like, anyway, I, I have ptsd because I was the one who gave caden like the big, big talk and he cried okay, so obviously he. He wasn't ready, mom I mean, mean, he was a lot younger, he was 10. But it just had to happen because it came up and so anyway. No, I understand.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that makes a little more sense.
Speaker 1:I'm like they caught the making out, and then she still spent the night and then they went to school.
Speaker 2:I was very confused so she did. Probably they didn't show, but she went home. Yes, came to like.
Speaker 1:because was very confused, so she did, probably they didn't show, but she went home, yes, came to like because they're, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend now to go to school together and that's what the parents grabbed them. Okay, that makes more sense. Well, you know what I noticed? That was annoying we talked about last time I thought there was like this big hair reveal for jen and the short hair. Nothing was said, it's just she woke up in the morning with short hair. That was weird and I swear I thought I remember and we talked about this yesterday, but we'll say talk about on here. I thought I remembered her having like this big haircut moment, but I think I was thinking of felicity because that was on air, like where she's cut her hair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it totally was. Yeah, maybe it is a little odd that they don't mention her hair at all, and it's just different it does come up like somebody says like jen, what's going on with you?
Speaker 1:because, as we see in this episode, she's not well and she starts making some not great choices.
Speaker 2:And somebody says like first it's the hair, then it's this right, okay, so they kind of does, but they don't ever like I thought there was gonna be a reveal. Yeah, no, it's just, it's just short now. Yeah, um, okay, so then we've got pacey failing his driver's test. Oh yeah, and the memories. I know you still can do in-person driver school and in-person driver's ed, but I, you don't have to like really, kate did in person. Oh, my kids just did florida virtual and then went and took their test, huh, yeah. Well, what I was gonna say is that room was definitely bringing back memories and and I don't think can, did he take it at school?
Speaker 1:oh wow, he did it during like spring break or summer.
Speaker 2:Maybe it was summer, okay, summer I don't think my kids school offers anymore. I could be totally wrong, but they alternate which schools offer it.
Speaker 1:I think okay, like the end, it was easy for us because he drove the little golf cart down there right, and then he could just learn and then get back in the golf cart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, but it just brought back like so many memories of like I know those driver's ed classrooms right, yes. And then poor pacey failing it by one on his birthday which we learned. And in that opening scene I couldn't tell if he was just giving the police officer, like trying to get sympathy, because he was like oh, and on my birthday. I was like he's such a like I couldn't tell if it was actually his birthday, oh, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I thought maybe he was just saying that.
Speaker 2:But then as the show goes on. It's like oh no, it is actually his 16th birthday.
Speaker 1:I know and nobody noticed. But before we keep talking about that, I almost forgot something about the parents talking to Dawson and Joey about sex. Yeah, I remember watching that and being like, oh my God, that's so embarrassing for Dawson and Joey. But now as a parent, I'm watching it and I'm like that's so uncomfortable for the mom and dad. Yes, Because other perspective. I feel like we're not like overreact, like you and I are not like super crazy overreactive parents. But I don't care who you are. It is awkward talking to your kids about sex, Totally Because they don't want to listen. No, I don't want to talk to my. I am 44 and have been married 20 years. I don't want to talk to my parents about sex and have been married 20 years. I don't want to talk to my parents about sex. No, Okay, no, Obvious Like I. Just it's a thing. I and I have friends who are very like blood, Like yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I will say it's easier for me to talk to my daughters about it but like, like, I will not talk to my son.
Speaker 1:See, I will not.
Speaker 2:Can, like I, I will not talk to my son. See, I will not. Can you imagine being the one that gave ferris the talk? No, and? And thankfully like I? I guess there's another layer there, because I'm his stepmom too. Oh true, so it's like really uncomfortable, but my so, my husband has, and I'll make little comments here and in there, but I've never like actually sat him down, though, to be fair, when he was, when I was pregnant with Tegan or Aaron I think it was Aaron, so he was five he did ask me yeah, he came to me and said, well, how does this work?
Speaker 2:and I tried to gloss it over like, oh well, but they don't love each other.
Speaker 1:And then?
Speaker 2:you have a baby. He's like no, like how does it get out? Like it was more about like the act of birth and less about like whatever but I was like, I just remember thinking, oh my gosh. But I, you know, and you, you're as honest as you can and try to be as appropriate as possible for their age.
Speaker 1:But but it's still I mean it's uncomfortable for those of y'all who do not have children. Or you have small children and think you're not gonna feel uncomfortable, that's fine, maybe you won't, but I always think it's funny, like to hear parents who have small children and only one, all these things that oh, but it's going to be easy and we're just going to do this?
Speaker 1:Let me tell you what once you get there it's a lot different. It's hard and, like you're saying, being opposite gender identities or biological identity, whatever gender, it is hard to talk about body parts that I do not possess, correct, so, like I can't tell you do you know like the mechanics of all?
Speaker 2:I don't know, you don't know.
Speaker 1:All I know I can. Now, I think they have an advantage because I will tell them, like for girls, like this is true, you know, you need to understand this, this and this and something that I tell Caden not Cooper yet but like we have this funny joke that I need to trademark these because I have the three C's that we talk about. Okay, and I'm not going to go into details, but it's number one is consent, number two is communication and number three is consequences. If you can't do any of those things, then you're not ready to be doing what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Right, whatever it is Correct, or but mostly you mean like.
Speaker 1:But like physically, physical intimacy of any kind, not just intercourse Right, and if you're not able to communicate and I said this to him the first time I talked to him about it I said you're not able to communicate with your partner, whoever it is because I didn't.
Speaker 1:I didn't know what he, who he was liking, or whatever you know, he's, he's attracted to Um, and I said whoever you're with, you need to be able to talk to them and say is this okay with you? Does this feel good for you? Do you want me to not do this If you can't do that without being embarrassed?
Speaker 2:you're not ready. Yeah, yeah, which that's a? You know that's a big ask for teenagers.
Speaker 1:So you're probably not ready, then Right.
Speaker 2:Exactly Because it's hard for adults to do that Totally. But I do. I will say, and I love that conversation, because I think the earlier you're, you just make yourself be uncomfortable and have those conversations.
Speaker 1:It.
Speaker 2:It's like with anything. Then you're like, oh, that wasn't so bad, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And then you're like good, good, good good, good.
Speaker 2:I don't know, Maybe it is I don't like it you don't like it, I hate it I hate it, I dread it.
Speaker 1:Oh, and I mean Troy took the reins with. I said I am not talking to these kids about masturbation like well that is on you.
Speaker 2:You're like, that's where I draw the line.
Speaker 1:No, one wants to talk to their mother who is a young boy. No, oh no, yeah, I am not, but I, but I do, like I did want it to be addressed, that it's normal and all of those things right. I never want the stigma what I've said to like my girls too well the ones that are old enough, but when you have the same parts it's essentially what I've said to like my girls too Well, the ones that are old enough to understand. But when you have the same parts, it's easy.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's easier and you can kind of gloss over it, like not gloss over it, but you can be like it's okay, you know, for girls, and without getting into like this is what it? Is and what you do, Because, like you know most, of them't know.
Speaker 1:We're off the fucking rails today. We're really going for it, talking about I'm just tracking one of my teenagers. Speaking of yeah.
Speaker 2:Speaking of. She's not there, but she's on the way, Okay good, good All right.
Speaker 1:Sorry, all right, moving on from that weird rabbit hole, I mean it was.
Speaker 2:But like that's interesting when, from the parents perspective this time, yeah, we're like, oh, I feel, feel for them that and and when we first watched it, we feel for the teenagers, yeah, so that's really interesting. Yeah, okay, so we talked about pacey failing his driver's test. Yeah, oh I just thought it was funny. Um, when grams woke up, jen, and she opens the curtains and right away she's got a Bible verse, oh. And God said let there be light.
Speaker 1:And she was saying I knew that whole song Rise and shine and give God the glory glory. I sang that every summer in vacation Bible school. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a catchy one. I know that one too, I mean it's kind of catchy. It's not bad for a church song. And then when Jen makes the joke, um, because grams is like you know, watch your language when she says hell, oh yeah, and she goes mom it's not a bad, or mom grams it's not a bad word.
Speaker 2:You can say it on network tv now oh yeah, I just like when, like, there's little jokes about, about, kind of like for the audience's benefit, I don't know. I just thought that was really funny, even though it was like sad to see her so sad in bed. And again Grams is like I'm worried about you, what's going on? And I want it to be like her freaking grandfather just died, Remember. And what do you mean? What's wrong?
Speaker 1:I mean also to like, her grandfather died.
Speaker 2:Plus, dawson and Joey are dating and she still likes him, which maybe Grams doesn't know. That does she know, well probably not okay. Good fact good, but but still. But even if she didn't at a baseline right, you should know she's grieving a loss well, and she probably is noticing like she's not hanging out with the kids no more.
Speaker 1:So she doesn't have friends around, she doesn't have a support group. Yeah, that's true but it is, I will say, from graham's perspective too. As an adult, sometimes we miss very obvious things, true, true, because we are adulting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're busy. We got so much going on, yeah, and we do miss.
Speaker 1:We do miss some stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do, you're right. What else did?
Speaker 1:you have. Well, okay. So I didn't really love this episode, not really anything great happening.
Speaker 2:It wasn't my favorite.
Speaker 1:There were a few moments that I was like oh, my goodness, which we'll get to, but generally I felt like it was kind of so the only the next thing I have. Um, I did. I also watched this episode in segments throughout the day, so I was a little distracted more than usual, but anyway, the next thing I had was about dawson reading joey's diary. I had a huge frowny face. Yep, yep. Oh, speaking of pause, we haven't told people how we write our notes, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:But you don't even have them this time, well, because we kind of dropped them last season, remember.
Speaker 1:I didn't.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought we said like we didn't have a lot of like hearts and X's, and it was just more of us talking about the show and we were pointing out what we didn't like and liked. We said that at the end I'm gonna find the recording. I just haven't been writing. Okay, I've just been right, and then it's like obvious, if I don't like it, I just give myself, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, we used to and I'm still doing it, and katie's not I can did hearts and x's, I did smiley faces and frowny faces. That's right. I said that backwards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yes, so I did smiley faces and frowny faces. Um, the frowny face was for problematic stuff, or it also became encompassing of things we just didn't like. True, true, true, because that's what we were. I think that's what we talked about is, we were like we kind of just like evolved into talking about what we liked and not liked.
Speaker 2:True.
Speaker 1:But we will address what we liked and what was problematic, even if we don't have our little emojis, because you can't see them anyway, exactly so. Anyway, nevermind, katie doesn't have any, but I do, uh. So I had a big frown face for uh dawson reading her diary and I put red flag, oh yeah, hello, like if somebody read my diary I would be so pissed.
Speaker 2:Oh, I said don't leave your journal out, exclamation point. I mean not on her, I. I wrote that before he opened it. Oh, like, like. As she was walking out of the room and he looked at it, I wrote that like, oh, no, like, um, but still no, I agree he shouldn't have read it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't care if it's like sitting right in front of you. That's like you don't read other people's texts, even if you can see them. Correct?
Speaker 2:no, I agree with that right and also like a journal slash diary, like when you read your diary like we just let it all out, it's a safe space. So even some of the stuff she was saying about Dawson that he read about how I don't know His movie was stupid and dumb. It was, and then him like baiting her. Later he's like that was so shitty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he's like your costume. Like your costume, did you like being in my movie? I want to know your thoughts on the movie and immediately she knew yeah, she's like you read my journal. Fucker, that would have been it for me. Yeah, I would have been mad too.
Speaker 1:And then like it, they don't even take the whole episode to make up?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, because of jack's advice, which we'll get to, but I love jack I know we'll get there okay, so I had to the the molly Ringwald reference. Yeah, 16 candles when. So it's like Jen who figures out his Pacey's birthday first? Yeah, Although he gives her like he's like I'm feeling very Molly.
Speaker 2:She's like which she names all the different movies and she's like well, you're not going to prom and you're not, you know, and she, so I thought that was funny. And then, just like a quick one, people rollerblading like on a scene transition. Oh yeah, they were like going to the high school and it's like all these people rollerblading up and down the sidewalk Also on that note, I had at the dock party all the clothes and bathing suits so good, so 90s.
Speaker 1:And then there were some people with like super soaker water guns.
Speaker 2:Yes, I saw that too. I was like between the super soaker water guns. Yes, I saw that too. I was like between the super soakers and the rollerblades. This is amazing, I loved it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the bathing suits were good at the party and all the outfits uh, and then oh, and then I just put um, abby is back.
Speaker 2:Yes, y'all know I was having. I was happy to see her, although that little interaction her and jen had on the bleachers was weird. But then I was, it was fine. Later, like when she was like oh, you didn't get the right note to get out of gym because you're still cleaning and I just made it up but I don't know.
Speaker 2:Just that whole scene. I was like what. And then Jen's like, instead of being like you're weird and strange, she's like, yeah, let's hang out. I know I was like what, but also Jen's desperate, I know, and someone's paying her attention so and intriguing her and also, instead of making her feel ashamed of her past in new york, abby wanted to know all the deets right. So and was it kind of like um, what's the word? Impressed by right, like she was like oh, you know yeah that's true.
Speaker 1:I also was giggling because I used to forge notes to get out of pe all the time and then my mom got like I got so good at forging and then I this is so dumb I got so good at forging my mom's signature and I would put her um work phone number on there just as like an out and she found it.
Speaker 1:She was like so mad, obviously Cause I've been doing it forever, and she was like Danny, like what if they would have called me at work? And I'm like, well, I did not think that because I hated which is hilarious, because I'm a person like fitness, Now my job I like I hated PE oh, that's so fun. Well, because all we did in PE was sports and I still hate sports. I don't like playing them, I don't like watching them. I am very uncoordinated when it comes to sports of any kind. And it was hot. I grew up in Louisiana and we had to go outside. And I like, when you have PE first period and you fixed your hair all morning and yeah, anyway, whatever, that is also one of the only Fs I've ever gotten in my life was PE.
Speaker 2:Oh man, anyway, it brought back memories. Yeah, no, yeah, no, I get it, though I get why you would want a note for that. Um, okay, so when pacey, finally, he gives dawson a couple opportunities to remember that it's his birthday and dawson is just in dawson world. And then dawson comes to him because he's upset about this. What joey wrote about him in his journal, in her journal, and that little blow up between them I thought was really good. Yeah. And Pacey says no offense, dawson, I don't think anyone cares.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I was like damn, come on Pacey. And then Dawson's just got. And you guys know I'm a Dawson stan, I love Dawson. But I was like dude, like are you? Oh, you're just so self-absorbed.
Speaker 1:So self-absorbed? And can we talk about his derpy clothes?
Speaker 2:So I didn't mind the clothes. Jesus, I really didn't.
Speaker 1:His haircut is derpy. And then the scene that it bothered me the most whereas when him, right before he like corners Joey about whatever they're walking on the bridge or some shit, and I was like you look so stupid, they're walking on the bridge or some shit, and I was like you look so stupid, like I'll have to watch it again Because she's in like that brown tank top and the jeans. I don't even know, I was just distracted.
Speaker 2:Like, very like girl next door, so stupid 1998. I couldn't.
Speaker 1:Like I mean there's a 90s, like goofy clothes, of course, but like that I was, like you know, the oversized, like V-neck sweater t-shirt, uh-huh, and then like the cargo shorts and like the socks with the I don't know. He just looked ridiculous.
Speaker 2:It was too much. It was too much, it was ridiculous. That's so funny.
Speaker 1:All right, what else? I'm still thinking about it.
Speaker 2:You're like hold on, I got to get over this. I I don't have that much.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, I did think this was problematic in very 90s. So where Grant, graham's and Mitch's friend whoever that guy was we're giving them marriage advice separately, separately, right. Neither one of them said shit about marital counseling. Yeah, you're right, it was just have an open marriage. Hello, straight man said that. Yeah, I don't even remember what Graham said Renew your vows. Renew your vows Okay. Nobody says maybe go to the root of the problem. Why, you felt like you had to go be unfaithful to your husband Because obviously nobody said marital counseling Right.
Speaker 2:Cause, like that's my first ask. Maybe go see a professional Right.
Speaker 1:So if you know, if I know of someone having marital, you know we're in our mid forties now so it's common that we know people who have gone through that, or ourselves, right? Um, that's the. My first question is um you know? And of course, both parties have to be open to it. That's the main thing to going to counseling.
Speaker 1:That's true, that's my first thing, that always happens, you need to go talk to someone like and I guess that I think the reason I wrote that down is because I feel like the language surrounding therapy and counseling and mental health has changed a lot in the past. However many years ago that was no, I agree, I think it's. I think it's gotten better. We still have a long way to go, of course, but I feel like now it is just therapy and stuff is widely more discussed and accepted and counseling, I know, and people openly talk about it, like I have several friends who have openly talked about them going to marital counseling and how like they were at the end not the end, but they felt like they were at the end of their relationship and they went to marital counseling, but they were both committed to it for like a year and it was very helpful and they still go just because they're like you don't just go and you're done.
Speaker 1:Right, you got to still touch base.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I heard Michelle Obama, I think was on Conan O'Brien's podcast and she talked about how they did and do go to marital counseling.
Speaker 1:She talks about it in both her books. Yeah, I love her so much. I love her too, I love him too, I just love them. Yeah, we miss you.
Speaker 2:We miss you. They're still around, just not in the same capacity. I mean, I miss you where you should be, where you should be, right, exactly Anyway. So yeah, I hadn't actually written that down. I thought it was funny when Mitch was talking to his friend and the friend's like oh, you got to avoid the big D, no matter what.
Speaker 2:And then he says something about an open marriage and Mitch is like what is this the 70s? Are you going to tell me to get some beanbag chairs, lava lamps? And I was like wow what is happening.
Speaker 1:But also that is something too I it just popped in my brain. Um, I feel like I don't even want to use the term open marriage, Cause I don't know if that's correct, but like having numerous partners is more accepted. Now too, it's not seen as like oh it was the seventies. Or swinger.
Speaker 1:I like polygamy, or polyamorous polyamory is what I mean polyamory is now more spoken about and in society as a whole. Right, and it's not so taboo, yeah, or antiquated like it's, not like some. It doesn't have to be like that cheesy, right, like I know. I know several like intelligent adults who are able to be in polyamorous relationships. Well, sure, and I that's another thing I thought of when you're like yeah, cause he, he talked about it like oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like in this very I don't know what's the right kind of term for that that I'm trying to think of.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was like derogatory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, not like, not like. Oh, that's bad. He wasn't saying that, no, it was just like what do I look like? Do I need a mustache? Am I in the seventies Like I don't? Three C's that you were talking about?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:There's consent communication, and what was? An understanding of what those consequences might look like or just physical consequences.
Speaker 1:I mean emotional.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, that's what I was thinking of that in that perspective Right, but that's like any relationship. Oh, you're rolling the dice, you get married and oh, you're rolling the dice, you know, like it doesn't matter. So I, yeah, I think it's interesting to see how, and I'm interested to see how this storyline with this open marriage idea, which we'll talk about a little more- okay so then I switched to which we already sort of touched on andy's bathing suit.
Speaker 2:So cute, I love it. It was like orangish reddish. It was really, really cute, I loved it. And then she says something to pacey, because pacey was looking at like the senior cheerleader, yeah, and she's like older women, like younger men or whatever, and I just thought it was funny because it's kind of like in in the context of like so in the show, in the context of two teens who are like the same age.
Speaker 2:It's like not really a great thing to say because she's talking about someone who's maybe a year older, maybe, and then. But then I also thought it was funny because you told me she was one of the older cast members, yeah, and I feel like there's a little thing happening. Well, I know there's a little thing happening there, so I just thought that was kind of a funny little line because she's older than him.
Speaker 2:Hello, he had a relationship with a teacher last season I forgot about that, okay, so in that, well, when I wrote this down, oh, I was like. I was like oh, I love that line. But now that you say that, I'm like oh, yeah, maybe I don't, pacey, stop going after older women like I mean wait until they're, wait until you're at legal, at least come on oh yeah, so I also oh but wait, that sounded weird because we're not faulting him for a an adult no, no no, no, no, no wait, let's.
Speaker 1:We'll rephrase that caught our problematic before we even aired. Look at that look at that.
Speaker 2:We're like we need to reframe what we said because it was incorrect. We do that a lot, though. We do, yeah, I know, and they're oh, it's hard, it is hard, so I I wrote down that at that dock party. So if you haven't seen the episode, it's, it's just what it? Sounds like it's hard. It is hard, so I wrote down that at that dock party. So if you haven't seen the episode, it's it's just what it sounds like. It's like a dock at the Marina. It looked fun.
Speaker 2:It looked really fun, I would totally love to go to a dock party. Nobody was like out on the water or anything, it was just like, oh, except, except. Then Dawson is up in a motorboat. I was like a motorboat yeah.
Speaker 1:Hello, and he was all cool. He was like in his derpy clothes, his derpy hair blowing right into it.
Speaker 2:So everyone's hanging out on the dock and on different boats, but Pacey was kind of giving awkward Kenny energy from Can't Hardly Wait. Oh, I know awkward Kenny energy from Can't Hardly Wait. Oh, I know Because he's walking through the party and people like running into him like watch out where you're going. Like nobody knows it's his birthday and he's like running into people and just super awkward, at least at the beginning.
Speaker 1:And then the poor girl's like this is gross and like dumps the drink out. Yeah, I was like no high schooler gives a crap what that drink tastes like. No, they are going to drink whatever's free and you hand them Correct.
Speaker 2:I know, I totally agree. It was that part was really funny to me. I was like, well, that was weird. And then I thought that and again, maybe this is the whole point, because this is what teenage girls drinking alcohol really are like.
Speaker 2:But I just felt like the Abby and Jen drinking scenes were a little dumb, Well, and it was a little much, it was too much. It was like I was like they were like so drunk and dumb. But then I'm like, well, maybe when I was a teenage girl, if I had been that drunk I would also act like that, so maybe it was realistic.
Speaker 1:Okay, but here's the thing. Here's the thing that I hate that they do on any kind of TV movie where people are supposed to be drunk especially with teenagers is they'll be like drunk and then something will happen and then they'll sober up like really quickly, right, y'all know, if you are drinking that much they said they drank like three bottles of champagne or something Um, you are going to be so sick and so messed up for hours. Yeah, if somebody says something to hurt your feelings, you don't just automatically be sober again Like it happened. Pay attention to that. That always annoys me in movies and TV shows and stuff, because I think that's also a toxic thing for young people watching thinking, oh, if I get drunk, I can just like you're drunk when you want and then you're not, and then your, your wits come back to you and you don't like think rational thoughts, right.
Speaker 2:And I think, like we talk in general in society, we talk a lot about, like, the poor judgment when you've been drinking, yeah, but what you just mentioned, that physical side, oh yeah, we don't. I don't know that. We talk about that much where you like. As it is, you know, we're in our 40ies, so if we drink too much we feel terrible too. Oh, for real. But as a teen, like I remember just even in college, like just being so sick, so sick, puking because you're putting poison in your body right, yeah, and your liver can only.
Speaker 1:I only know this from bartending, because you have to not over serve people, right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Your liver metabolizes about one serving of alcohol an hour. Okay, so that's why, when we are serving drinks at the theater, people order a drink before the show. Okay, then they sit for an hour, watch the show hour. A little over an hour they get another drink at intermission, sit for another hour. They're usually fine to go home because they've had the time to process, but they've come in and they've already had other drinks. That's where we have to be really careful, especially on Saturday nights, friday nights.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if they've been out to dinner, you have to pay attention because if they come in already having something, then they have something on top of that, or they order a double, because I'm talking about a single serving of alcohol guys, Single serving right.
Speaker 1:Single serving takes an hour. Now you have a double or a large pour of wine. You're already past a single serving. It's going to take your liver longer to process that Right. So when you're in college and high school, you're out drinking Hello. You're not winning an hour between, or you're not drinking hello.
Speaker 2:You're not many joining an hour, or you're not, or you drink a bunch at the start and then slow down. Or that was me. Yeah, what I would do. I drink a bunch at the start and then, maybe not throughout the night, keep going, but I'm already yeah, irresponsible drinking, so and yeah, so like the physical side of that is correct is so yeah, I thought it was silly too.
Speaker 1:I was like that was a little much and also not accurate. I didn't. I felt like it was like they you could tell they were acting like. I felt like it just wasn't an act which I don't not like. We need to have accurate portrayals but also we kind of do because, yeah, you don't want teenagers to think, oh, look how funny they are and silly. Now, granted, they did look a mess and like it was not glamorized.
Speaker 2:I'll put it that way yeah, no, it wasn't glamorized, but I know what you mean. It also was just it. It did look like at least the two of them were having a good time together, even if next to everyone else they look kind of ridiculous. Yeah, no, and everyone else drinking at the party too, right, like you said, that looked like fun.
Speaker 1:That doc party, you meant the party, but like I mean, I would be having a cocktail as a 44 year old, well, yeah, oh, probably as a teenager.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, Exactly. So that part was a little glamorized but not the two of them Okay. So then we meet Jack Yay Kersmith who I love Love.
Speaker 1:He was at him and James Van Der Beek were at the. Remember the 90s thing we were going to go to in Daytona? Yeah, they were there last year.
Speaker 2:Oh man, that's so cool, right? And?
Speaker 1:he looks the same. He also has aged well, has he?
Speaker 2:Okay, yes, All these folks from Dawson's have aged. Well, that's awesome, yeah. So the storyline with Jack he comes into Joey's family's restaurant to get a job and they hire him.
Speaker 2:And so he is working the ending shift with Joey and she explains this like argument she's in with Dawson and he's like well, go on, I can close up. Like what are you going to do? Shut off the lights, lock the door. And she's like well, she said something like we haven't even had our first whatever, cause I just started dating. We haven't even had our first whatever because they just started dating. And he's like well, you haven't had your first makeup either. And it's like something clicks in her brain and she's like oh, okay, I'm going to let you lock up Bye. And she's like fine, but like, joey, this is a big fucking deal.
Speaker 1:This kid read your diary and then tried to trick you about getting you to say the stuff he read about. Right, like I would not be wanting to go anywhere as derpy clothes, so I would not be trying to, and she hates his hair. I said she instead of we, cause I like it, but yes like I would not be trying to rush Like he needs to be coming groveling, being like that was a real dirtbag thing. I did yeah, Because ew, I know.
Speaker 2:Like if my husband did that I would be pissed Right and it's. You know however many years now. Yeah, honestly.
Speaker 1:Honestly and I tell him all the time he's like who are you texting? Because I am a texty text honestly and I tell him all the time he's like who?
Speaker 2:you texting because I'm, I am, I'm a taxi tech, katie, and I text all the time. Oh, I'm a big texter and it annoys our husbands, I think sometimes but it's fine, I text lots of my friends.
Speaker 1:That's what we do. We text whatever and she'll be like who you texting, who you're texting? And I also have a lot of gay male friends who I also text like bobby and carlos and such. Yeah, and he's like who I'm like. You can read my text anytime you want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, if you, seriously, if you feel like you need to which is that's a whole other problem, right, but he's like I have. He said I literally have no desire to know what you and your friends are texting about my husband's the same way he's like I do not care.
Speaker 2:If I look like especially intense, like if I'm like yes my eyebrows are furrowed and I'm going, going and going. He might be like what He'll say like who are you talking?
Speaker 1:to.
Speaker 2:And then I'll tell him whoever it is, and then I'll just like quickly summarize like oh, so-and-so is upset because of this, or I just need to tell them what time to be somewhere, and I don't scroll through that and figure it out. Oh god but if I have a weird look on my face and I'm like typing much more rapidly than normal, and I already text pretty rapidly same.
Speaker 1:He might be like uh, hello are you okay, like what's going on over there, but anyway, yeah, anyway, that's funny so their makeup though I had on there when they had their little um cheesy like makeup kiss in the rain. Oh, oh yeah, I wrote that down too. I was like that's so 90s.
Speaker 2:He's like at the party yeah it starts to rain, it's getting dark and he turns and there's not wet at all. But then she does get wet as it goes on. But his first few of her. I noticed that her hair was completely dry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and can we just say, kisses in the rain.
Speaker 2:Hello we just say kisses in the rain, hello, they are not romantic, they're a fucking mess. I serious. No, I agree, do you remember? Did you watch the office? Yes, when jim and pam got engaged at the gas station and it was raining, I remember thinking of that. Sorry, spoiler alert everyone. Oh, a very old show, as we're talking about spoilers from this other old show. It's fine, um, but I remember even at that time because I was excited because, yay, jim and pam, you know forever but then I was like oh man, like that looks really not fun and cold and gross and uncomfortable yeah
Speaker 1:kissing in the rain, not, not the best doing anything, and I hate getting caught in the rain. I need to hate it, me too. I absolutely hate it, and I am not trying to make out with nobody up in the rain, although I will say recently I was out with my husband in our hot tub and it started pouring and you were making out.
Speaker 2:No, we weren't at that moment. But at that moment, but it was like it was kind of nice, it was a weird sensation, the thing I can oh, because you're in a bathing suit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm already wet, and then it was like warm, and then the well, because you're already wet, it was okay, like I feel like if I am prepared to be wet, like I also hate water rides, because if I'm at a theme park, like I am not dressed in like water gear, why, not I'm just kidding, I mean, some people do though some people do. They're ready, that's their business.
Speaker 2:Live your life, uh, anyway, so cheesy rain kiss yeah cheesy rain kiss, oh, um, before the rain at the party I had that when, um, mitch and gail confront each other about the marriage stuff, and then that was a a moment where Gail says to Mitch, because he was being a little convoluted, yeah. She says, are you saying we should take sex out of our marriage? And he says God, no, I don't know if you noticed that, I didn't.
Speaker 1:Why did I not pick up on that?
Speaker 2:And I was like I was like, oh okay, mitch, calm down okay.
Speaker 1:Mitch calm down, but then valid answer.
Speaker 2:He was like God, no, no, I don't want to not have sex. But then he suggests that they have an open marriage and they don't really like resolve, that they just kind of look at each other.
Speaker 1:And I think that's gotta be okay. So, even though I'm not on Gail's side for anything, I think that would that would be hard if your partner approaches you with this, this idea that you have not ever had before Because they've been married like 20 years, right, yeah, that would that would be very like taken aback, like if you're not because then it's like if you are also not in agreement for that. That would be very awkward for both people.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean kudos to him, I guess, for bringing it people. Yes, I mean kudos to him, I guess, for bringing it up. He's trying to figure something out and I'm probably going to have a problematic stereotype, like I did last time with this.
Speaker 1:So here we go.
Speaker 2:But I'm just going to be honest and maybe we can talk through it. My thought when he said it was I was like I don't think like I would. Again, I'm, you know, I guess around their age, but but a woman, I don't think that I would suggest an open marriage unless I had someone in mind. Oh, you know what I mean. I don't think I would because why would I like? I think I would only suggest it if it was like. I'm having this feeling. So therefore I want to talk to my partner about it and see what they think. It seems odd to me for him to be like let's do this If he's doesn't really like, unless he's already attracted to someone. Oh, I see where.
Speaker 1:I see what I'm saying, I see where you're saying that can be problematic Stereotype, because I don't think that's how it comes up. I I mean I don't know, because I am not somebody who could handle emotionally a polyamorous situation. I couldn't, I could not. It's not for everyone. No, like you, have to be a very evolved person in a lot of ways that I am not.
Speaker 2:And I think it's the relationship too. Oh, correct, but I could maybe do it, not you personally, but like a person could maybe handle that in a dynamic with someone that they couldn't in a dynamic with someone else.
Speaker 1:And I honestly, I honestly am jealous of people who are, like, evolved enough to be able to handle it. I am just too jealous and I know that it's a very toxic trait and I will say I and I have so many like self-esteem issues I would constantly be comparing to whoever else was in the relationship with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, and that's and so I know that.
Speaker 1:So I would never even venture. But I think, I think I don't know, I don't think you have. I think usually it probably comes up not because you have somebody in mind. I think it's just because you want to have the potential for somebody else to come in mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which I guess is what they're setting up in this storyline.
Speaker 1:It's but, but I don't know, and especially for you personally, so I don't think that that's antiquated or whatever you said. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think. That's just. I think, for me to even get to the point where I would say that it would have to also, it's a big ask.
Speaker 1:So if you, haven't had that as part of your relationship for at least according to the storyline, they have it right.
Speaker 2:They haven't dated other people. Well, she did as an affair, but like they haven't been out there dating or like trying to like have romantic relationship with new people for a long time. So to me it's like I guess what I'm thinking personally is like is it worth bringing this maybe uncomfortable thing up to my partner if there's no reward on the other side of that Like? If there's no like, oh, if he's cool with it, then I can do this. If it's just like, okay, he's cool with it. But now things are weird until one of us like takes the other up on this.
Speaker 1:I don't know, it just seemed but I think open relationships too, though, are more like. It's different, it's not one way, right. So it's different depending on the humans that are in the relationship. Like it's not like. There's not one map of how to have an open relationship or polyamorous or whatever Right so.
Speaker 1:I think, for some people like I I do know some people who ha, who are long-term partners that they are okay with each other having, you know um, interactions with other humans without the other person. But then I know some people I know a couple who's married and they will only have interactions with other humans, with each other, yeah, so so that's just two examples, but there's like a million ways on how it can all be. Yeah, so I think it, but anyway, now we're talking about polyamory.
Speaker 2:I think the reason that I thought maybe I was thinking something problematic is because I had assumed maybe he was having an affair last episode oh, yeah, yeah and so now I'm assuming he's attracted to someone, and that's why he's oh okay, you see what I'm saying. So that's why I thought maybe it was a problematic thing, like, oh, men, just can't like have um, like I don't know, outside the box ideas it's got to be based in sex and attraction.
Speaker 1:That might be, katie, you might need to dig in, but then when we just talked about it, I was like, well, if it was me?
Speaker 2:so I'm not really putting it on men, I'm kind of maybe more like thinking hmm, also thinking of the storyline, like where are they going with this?
Speaker 1:well, everyone we're going to find out. And also let me just clarify, we have zero expert level on polyamory.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:So like zero. I feel weird that we even like spent so much time talking about it, cause like what the hell do we know? I mean, I do have friends and people in my life who are who, so I have spoken with them about it because I'm always so well, we're not giving advice on it. That's what I mean, and I may have fucked up everything.
Speaker 2:that was just said, we may have so that's fine. And we'd be happy to hear, if we did. Oh, what I did ask myself, though, and then we can move on from this when this first aired in 1998. Yeah, and they just said open marriage without really explaining it. Did you know what that was? Yeah, I don't know if I would have known what that was I mean I was in college, though Maybe I would have. I don't know if I would have known what that meant.
Speaker 1:Just based on that alone To be fair, I did grow up in a pretty I mean I don't want to say like open, since we just said open, I mean I did know a lot of things growing up.
Speaker 2:And maybe I did too.
Speaker 1:I lot of things growing up and maybe I did too.
Speaker 2:I was just trying to think back and I was like, without context, I would have. Well, not, you were also younger than me, so you were a little younger than school, so maybe I didn't know, I don't know. Anyway, I was just curious. I did um, okay, there you go. Um, oh, okay, so all I have left. I don't know what you have left.
Speaker 2:I only have one thing okay, I have jen telling abby that she loves dawson and wants him back. Oh yeah, which I couldn't tell if that was the alcohol talking. But then that was that moment where she seemed sobered up and so I'm like oh dear. And then, um, andy, giving pacey that magic eight ball. I know which they then drop in the water and he's like that can't be a good sign, but I thought that was.
Speaker 2:That was kind of cute it was cute like because the storyline's sort of shown that she's got a lot of money too. So to like, go out and buy this sort of like. No, she said she had it in her car.
Speaker 1:Oh right, and she was gonna give it to him, uh jack, for christmas, but she forgot it was there.
Speaker 2:I love that so he got a birthday gift?
Speaker 1:yeah, that wasn't that was for him wasn.
Speaker 2:It wasn't like she took the effort, but still it was something what was your last thing.
Speaker 1:I just put poor Jen Like I just feel so bad for her Cause she is emotionally and mentally in a horrible place and she is self-destructing Yep, and that happens a lot. It's just like the slow unfolding this season and it's just, and then, like when she came home from the party and she looks in the mirror and you know her makeup's all over her face and like I just like it just crushes me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it just crushes me because I have been through times like that where you are just not well and you just don't know what to do. And she's young I mean she's 16 in the show and I think they wrote that well in that. She's just lost.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, like you said, as the season unfolds we'll see more of that. But this was a good setup for that. Where we see her having trouble getting out of bed, we see her engaging in risky behavior with the alcohol um longing for, like the boyfriend or connection or whatever.
Speaker 2:And, um, I totally feel that and as a young person, I think it really can feel like the end of the world, which we've talked about before, oh God. But even as an adult, like sometimes stuff happens and I'm like, oh, I feel way worse about this than I should, right, but then, like, with the age and wisdom, comes wisdom and I'm able to be like, oh no, this is going to be fine, Correct.
Speaker 2:But you can see that she's not and she, she we've talked about that too, that loneliness. She just like she's not really connecting with Graham's, she's not connecting with Dawson at this point, her family, the rest of her family's in New York and they don't want her there. And then it's like now she's kind of connecting with Abby, but is that like?
Speaker 1:but it's not. It's like a surface, it's not like yeah and then there's a whole other storyline that happens with abby, and once we get there, oh man.
Speaker 2:But anyway, oh man buckle up anyway, so that was all I had. No, that was me too. We're like oh, that episode blah.
Speaker 1:But then we talked about it it wasn't that blah now that we got into it. I don't know why?
Speaker 2:maybe it's just I was saying to danny yesterday, maybe it's because the first one of the season was so good. Yeah, and also I didn't see Pacey's frosted tips in this episode Are they already gone.
Speaker 1:Girl, you don't remember? He was buying hair dye at the end of episode one. I don't remember that Andy helped him pick it out there in the store. I remember, so because she don't give him a hard time. She was like you'll look better with brown.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right. You're right. I guess I didn't remember from a week ago, but I liked the frosted tips I did too. I think that's what made me notice it. I was like oh, why does his hair look?
Speaker 1:like that. I'm so scared. I'm going to feel like that when I go back, brown with your own hair, I'm going to be like, oh shit, where's the pink? I'm going to love it.
Speaker 2:No, I am scared, I'm scared, I'm going to look. Uh well, I was talking to my hairdresser about this cause.
Speaker 1:She has fashion color. She has it in her bangs and her two front strips. It's very cute. She has dark hair, like we do, um, and I was like I don't know, should I go back dark? And she was like she's like, honestly, yeah, probably just for hair integrity, since you're growing it out. But we had this whole conversation about it and she's like I said, I'm just like I don't know and she's like you know, I go through this too, because in the back of my head I'm like am I just going to look like a boring mom? And I'm like, yes, I feel that, not that y'all look boring If you have one color hair. I'm just saying for myself are you going to?
Speaker 2:correct yeah.
Speaker 1:Especially because I'm so used. I've had it for over a year now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I'm so used to having fun hair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it is just hair, doesn't matter. No, matter what it'll look great, okay, yes, well, thank you for tuning in We'll see you for episode three of season two and for all of our regular episodes as well. So we'll catch you next time, guys. Yeah, we'll catch you next time, guys. Bye.
