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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek S2, E1: The Kiss and Frosted Tips
We're back with our popular Nostalgic or Problematic series, and we are embarking on season 2 of the 90's/early-00's teen angst classic, Dawson's Creek.
In episode 1 of season 2, Dawson and Joey grapple with their new romance, while Jen grieves her deceased grandfather and Pacey decides to get frosted tips. You can watch the series along with us on Amazon Prime (as of Jan. 2025).
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Hello and welcome back to Generation Inbetween and we are in our next segment of Nostalgic or Problematic, back for 2025. We haven't done one of these in a while and we decided it was time to revisit Dawson's Creek, capeside, capeside, mass. We're back. We are back Capeside, so we are starting season two, and I don't know how long this is going to last, because we just realized that Amazon Prime in 13 days will have Dawson's Creek season two no longer. So we shall see what happens. We'll do a little research after this and discover where else it might be. We might just have to watch like bad quality ones on YouTube or pay what? 20 bucks to download all the episodes, something like that. That would be so annoying. It might be worth 20 bucks, so annoying, I don't know. It wouldn't, it wouldn't Anyway. So we are back to season two. So if you are new to our podcast, hello Hi. Thanks for stopping by.
Speaker 1:Yes, and we started a series last year called Nostalgic or Problematic, where we rewatch things from the 80s and 90s and kind of dissect them and talk about them from a current lens, whether or not they hold up and are still nostalgic for us, or they have lots of problematic things which generally from the eighties and nineties. There's both. That's what we're learning, so we can hold the nostalgia along with recognizing the problematic shit that we used to do, and say that we have maybe improved on and maybe not, maybe not, maybe not, maybe we still have lots of problems. So our season one rewatch was fun and, like I just said, it was a combo of nostalgia and problematic. The main problematic was the damn teacher relationship. Yes, a 40-something-year-old teacher having an affair with a 15-year-old boy. So ew, gross. That went on way too long, way too long into the season. But now we ended season one. For those that don't remember, dawson and Joey finally kissed. Yes, so episode one of season two is actually called the Kiss, and here is the summary Dawson and Joey embark on a romance as Jennifer tries to cope with the loss of her grandfather. So that was something else that happened Jen's grandpa died at the end of that episode. Yeah, the season finale. Yeah, yeah, the season finale. So let's jump right in, okay. So, speaking of the title, I loved that.
Speaker 1:Season two episode one started right where the season finale of the first season stops, right away, and we're going to talk about this, as it happens, but I so what was interesting is, yes, it was like right back in the bedroom where it ended. But then there's a new theme song, yeah, and everyone's hair was different. Everyone's hair was different and I was like, well, how are they? And then they had some really creative ways in the episode that they accounted for. Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about it. Um, but yeah, I loved how it's. It kind of just started there and not and I liked that scene because already they're already like awkward and having doubts. Yeah, well, because I hate to.
Speaker 1:Sometimes with season finales of shows, especially back in the 90s, it would be like this big season finale and then you'd come back the next season because, guys, before streaming, we waited months and months and months, um, and then you got one episode a week. It wasn't like a full season released and you could binge it. It was one episode a week until you were out, until they were done, and sometimes longer than that if there was a holiday thrown in and they threw in a rerun or whatever and, um, they would like skip a bunch of stuff. So it'd be like, for instance, instead of Dawson and Joey ending up right back where you left them, like a whole summer had gone by and they'd be holding hands, walking down the hall at school. Like I always hated that Cause. I'm like, well, what happened in the meantime? And then they'd give you like vocal summaries, like, oh well, you know, this summer, blah, blah, blah to fill in the holes, and I hated that. So I really liked that.
Speaker 1:It just picked up right where it left off, even though Dawson's hair was different. Well, like his hair was the same in that scene. Oh, it sure was. It was right. So that's what I mean. Yeah, it was kind of smart how they did it, and but then you know every show, but dawson's for sure they've got that couple minutes at the beginning, before the theme song montage, the little yeah, so it was like they're in the room and then, um, right away, like joey is like oh poof, what do we do? We'll pretend it didn't happen, you know, and like all this kind of drama, uh, and dawson too, they're both equally dramatic. But and then the theme song comes on and they look a little more grown up, yeah, then season one the hair is shorter, they look more like college kids, in my opinion, than they did, and I was like, wait a minute. I literally just saw Dawson in that scene with his hair from season one.
Speaker 1:So then, one of the first scenes of the actual show, him and Pacey are getting haircuts. Oh my, god, god and okay, this is skipping ahead of minus, but we'll talk about it since we're there. Pacey with the frosted tips, dying, hello every teenager and early 20s male yes, identifying person, maybe I'll just frost my tips. Oh man, that was the hot hairstyle. It did look pretty good on him. I gotta say it wasn't bad. I loved me some frosted tips on boys. Yes, I loved them. I mean, and like Justin Timberlake made it like real famous. He did his. I don't know if he was the first, not the first, but like he's one that immediately comes to mind for me, I forgot that Joshua Jackson had it this way in season two. I knew it was coming and then, when that happened, I was like, yes, I remembered, and I was like I just love that.
Speaker 1:They're like at a salon like that. Teenage boys don't usually go to salons. They go to like Caden goes to wherever can fit him in the fastest. So he's like super cuts, sports clips, whatever. I don't want to be there, I just want you to cut my hair. He does not care.
Speaker 1:Because here, here's the nice thing when you are a male identifying person that has short hair, if you don't like it, it grows back in less than a month. Easy, right, yeah, so why spend a bunch of money? That's his logic and it actually makes sense. He's like why would I spend a bunch of money? He's not wrong, and my son and my husband are the same way. Yeah, like my son, like I always think he looks great, but of course, like he's like oh, I've got a bad haircut. But he usually, if he mopes, it's maybe for like a couple hours and he's got. So your son has, I would say, like hair. That's maybe a little more straightforward. Oh yeah, it's not tricky. Well, your son's hair is very curly, very thick, so if you go to the wrong person it can look a little wacky for a while, but even then it's not long and curly hair is hard, the way he wants it, you know. So it's my husband's the same way. He won't even tell me. He'll just be like oh, I'm running to Publix and he will. He'll run to Publix, but he'll also come back with a haircut and I'm like oh, you got your haircut. He's like oh yeah, there was no line.
Speaker 1:That's such a different life than I lead, because I have to get my roots colored so I don't look 85. And what it's serious, I don't know. I've never seen you look 85. So I don't know. Because every six weeks my butt's in a cilantro and you know, I get my stripe. My stripe comes and I'm like, ah, and sometimes, if I like am too late on my appointment, uh, my youngest really likes to call out my stripe. He'd be like, ooh, mom, I'm like, yes, I know, thank you, I have a white stripe of hair and guys just don't hate on me.
Speaker 1:I tried to go natural once and it aged me and I don't need to be doing that. No shade to others who want to do it, and you know, feeling it. Yeah, I've seen people that it does not age them, which is bizarre to me. They look older when they color their hair and I'm like, how, that's not my life. Even my sister was like, ooh, don't do that again, just stop. I mean, she can say that because she has no grays at 50. Yeah, none, I noticed that Bullshit. And she's naturally blonde. Well, they hide, yeah, and you only have like a couple streaks. I have a couple. I've been getting a few more, so they just look fun. I've been getting a few more, but they just look fun.
Speaker 1:Mine's, my whole head. It's really bad. It's like when it comes in, it comes in, yeah, it's like it's my whole head, my. It's fine because I'm. I have a great hairstylist who colors my roots and it's great. Anyway, so, hairstyles Frosted tips for you.
Speaker 1:Also, while we're talking on hair, did you not think it was funny? Like, this is the season where Jen cuts her hair short, but they haven't got there yet, so they're just pinning her hair up to make it look like it's long. But did you notice that? The whole episode, now that you say that, yes, but I did not notice that before. Yeah, yeah, and it's very evident she has short hair, that they're pinning up because she has the little thingies, the little wisps, the wisps and the bottom. And I'm like, oh, yeah, because it's not until the second episode, maybe the third, where she chops it all off.
Speaker 1:Oh, but I'm not sure, why did they just not have her? Oh, because, literally, her grandpa died the night before. So in real life, why? That's what I'm saying. I think she just cut it. I think she just cut it. I don't know, I'm cutting it. I don't know, we'll have to look that up, but anyway, I thought it was funny because I'm like, oh yeah, like her short hair hasn't been revealed yet because it didn't happen yet in the storyline. Or maybe they had to refilm this episode or something, yeah, cause that's, that could have happened, that could have happened, and and they had already cut it. Or just the suit, oh yeah, yeah, she cuts it short.
Speaker 1:And when we get to that episode we'll talk about how big of a deal haircuts in the nineties on TV shows were. Oh, yes, they were Okay. So we kind of skipped over. I skipped over to the frosted tip. So what'd you have before that?
Speaker 1:In the first five minutes you see Dawson's dad with no shirt on, and that was I was going to let you be the one to bring that up. I knew it. I know I can't help it. I was like, oh, he's here, there he is, and no shirtless, no shirt, he was very cute and I feel like, like I remember seeing that scene or just anything with, like Dawson's parents or adults sort of either being intimate or kissing, and I remember it bothered me when I was younger, like almost like, oh, a mom and dad. But then now when I watch it, I'm like, yeah good, oh, it bothered you watching him. It did not bother me. I think it bothered me, like just seeing older people. Oh, because you're like middle-aged people, gross, not gross, but just like, made me uncomfortable, oh, it made me uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:But we're not going to say how I was going to say this is a PG show, but no, it's not. Oh, we don't know. We got the E now. We got the E, we got the E. It happens. Well, you know what I? I I'm telling you he was like my first I, I mean, I was, I was 18 when this season came out.
Speaker 1:He was a hot topic of discussion. This was like before, like the daddy era, where people talked about daddies all the time. Right, like, right, like now it's like a thing. It's like a thing. But it wasn't really then. And I remember we were taught we would talk about Dawson's dad. We didn't even know his real name, like his actor name. It was just you're like Dawson's dad. There he is, yeah, what's his name on the show? Oh, mitch, I don't know. Mr Leary, mr Leary, mitch, leary, mitch, I mean, that's a cute name. That's a cute name, see.
Speaker 1:And then it's weird that we're saying this about names, because for some reason I thought about Dawson's mom's name for the first time Gail. Gail and I. I used to hear that name all the time. But is anyone named Gail anymore? Did you really hear that a lot? Yeah, no, you didn't. Yes, not people my age, but I remember friends of mine. I can think of three friends that was their mom's name. Oh, so you think it's an uncommon name. Anyway, I don't know anybody.
Speaker 1:I had a moment where I was like man, there used to be a lot of people named Gail. Where are all the Gails? I think I remember one of my I think one of my good friends in high school. Her mom's name was Gail and that was it. Maybe some ladies at church or something, I don't know, but I didn't think there was a Gail phenomenon.
Speaker 1:Where are all the Gails? Maybe just where I'm from. Where are the Gails? Someone tell me I mean, but you, I don't know, it's a cute name, I don't like it. You don't like it. I mean, if your name's Gale, it reminds me of, like Claire, gale. I just think it's cute. Anytime. I think of Claire, I think of Breakfast Club. That's true, I saw this meme the other day and it was like if I would have known how hard it was to name a kid, I wouldn't have held so many grudges in my life. Oh snap, and I was like that so true, all the names that you you know, okay, except you can't use. But anyway, go ahead. What else you got? Oh well, oh him.
Speaker 1:We're still talking about hair. I want to go back to hair, because dawson's new derpy do. It is derpy, it is not is so cute, it is, it is so cute, it is so derpy. Looking better. It's better than the other one. The other one was shaggy and I don't like it. His hair in this show just remains derpy the whole time.
Speaker 1:So, first of all, what does derpy? I don't know. We say this word in my house a lot. You do, I don't know. I think try, invented it, but it fits. It reminds me of like frumpy. No, is that what you're trying to say? Kind of like dweeby, like, okay, I don't know, maybe something like that. No, like dweeby wonky, like, just not cool, it's exactly how it sounds. Yeah, okay, right, that's fair. I cannot believe.
Speaker 1:You said I thought you would agree with me. No, no, I liked both of their haircuts, him and pacey. Okay, but they're very different they are, but I thought each one like suited them. She got range, you would think all right, moving on from hair, all right, what do you have? Oh, oh, I have this pulled up. I don't know why, because my other notes I realized I wrote it in a notebook, but anyway, um, I liked the, um, the references to other couples on shows.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, where he's like it took, uh, he being pacey, uh-huh, says to dawson, because dawson's relaying to him that there was this kiss he's's like well, it took four seasons for Sam and Diane, and I can't remember that Scully and Mulder haven't even gone together yet, which I was like. Oh my God, what a time capsule, what a time capsule. I love it. That was so fun. But it's also like addressing the thing within the show. It's like I'm saying this like we're just friends, the show like the show itself, because people are like will they? Or he even says it's the will, they won't they, will, they, won't they. And so I feel like I remember at the time thinking, and especially now, good on the show for like not dragging that out for four seasons, god, I know, I mean, as we'll see. I mean, it's still up and down, not everything is is happily ever after, but good on them and just being like you know at least you're just going to be together. Yeah, for this portion of the audience what they want, you know what.
Speaker 1:Yes, one thing I didn't like was her not going to France. Oh, I have that too. Yeah, bullshit, like immediately, like one kiss and my whole trip's off. Listen y'all, you don't do that. You don't do that for other people, okay, no, no, especially when you're 16. Yeah, live your life and it's a summer, it's not like six years, it's a summer, and if you're supposed to be together, you'll be together when you get back. Like, do not pass up a once in a lifetime opportunity for a significant other. I'm just saying when you're 16 years old, it's different. If you're like sharing a life together, already Kids and you have to pass up on things that's just called adulting everyone, but that's something you will have to do, oh, yeah. So don't do it when you're 15, 16, 17, 18. Like, yeah, you're young, save it for when you are old and boring and have to Correct. Yeah, I didn't like that. I hated that too. I didn't like that at all what I did like was Andy's. Andy arrives. Jack's not there yet, but he's coming, jack will be there. I was going to say I didn't see he's not.
Speaker 1:Siblings, are they? They're twins or just siblings? I can't remember, they're just. I don't remember if they're twins or not. Okay, I don't, I don't close in age either way. Yeah, but yay, I, I loved when she popped on the scene. Yeah, she, and she's one of the oldest of the cast. She, she looks very young, but she is, she was one of the oldest, really, yeah, she looks she may have been the oldest, yeah, okay, so, yeah, I loved that.
Speaker 1:I. I mean, it's not funny to impersonate an officer. Oh, it was funny. I had to kind of remove myself because you know, you guys know I'm true, true crime mind and I'm like, oh man, like women have literally been um, killed by people pretending to be right. But also, it's like I, I feel like the way that they filmed it was in such a non-threatening way, broad daylight. I was like I know she's. He's like in a j crew shirt, like hello, he's also like 16, I know. I'm like what? Hello? Yeah, no uniform. And he jumps out the window. I have a police car instead of like opening the door. Well, she ran into the door. Oh, that's true, that's true. I just remember thinking that was like a funny way to get out, but I guess that was the only way he could get out.
Speaker 1:Now that you say that, yeah, that whole scene was funny and also just like the way no hate or anything, but it was just like very obvious to me now as like a writer for many years, the way they fit so much exposition in that conversation. It was like I live on this street and I moved from here and I'm also friends with the head cheerleader and I was like, well, ah, there's so much happening Because that's how Andy talks. Okay, like, she is like high strung and she like has anxiety and she's just like very, very. You may not remember from you, well, but that's just how she talks. She always has lots to say. So we meet her and like and that immediately spot on, this is her. Everything is 600 sentences.
Speaker 1:What did she mean when she called the cheerleader a homo sapien? Did she literally just mean she's a human being or did she mean, but the way she said it she was like she was like, oh she, she was like she wouldn't be interested in you. She's a homo sapien, right. I was like what? Because she means that humans would not be attracted to face. Okay, I mean, I guess a bad joke, well, and also like 90s I'm like, is she trying to say something? I don't know I was. I was like, is the cheerleader gay? Like what Did I miss that? Okay, but what was the name of that actress? That's what I was just trying to look up. That's why I was on IMDb. Was it Allie, something or other? Yes, yes, allie. Oh, my God, I can't think of her name thing, varsity blues. And she's got that like raspy voice and she's so pretty she right now.
Speaker 1:Have you seen that new show? I haven't watched it, but with billy bob thornton, called land man girl. You know, I'm not gonna know anything new. She's in it, oh really, and I don't know if she's supposed to be his wife or something, but the whole I know, right, well, but look, the premise is that he's like an oil rig owner, really rich guy, oh, and he has a trophy wife, so that's his wife. Okay, well, that makes sense. And then it's like the whole like underbelly of that world, like, yeah, people getting beat up, look up her name. Look at, look up varsity blues and it'll pop up. That's what it is. Yeah, and she was in that with James Van Der Beek. I cream bikini. Yes, her, what's her name? I'm looking ali larder, larder, larder, that's it.
Speaker 1:She was in so much stuff in the 90s, her and amy smart both. Yeah, they were in like everything she was and she's just gorge. She's beautiful and I love her voice and yeah, yeah, she's great. I don't remember. Do we see her a lot during this season or is it just kind of like, kind of in this episode, kind of in and out? But okay, I couldn't remember if, like, we saw her, like, if she was like a scott foley situation, I think. So I don't remember. I'm trying to remember, I don't know. I that's, idk, that's my answer. Idk, I love it. Okay, something else I did not enjoy, I just.
Speaker 1:Poor Jen, okay, I wonder the scene. Okay, so she's grieving, you know, she lost her grandpa, plus she's realizing like Dawson and Joey are like getting together. She's kind of like figuring that out, and so she just feels so like lost, which we already knew. And so she's like outside sad and like Dawson's all bebopping Cause he's going on a date with Joey. Right, he comes over and they have this conversation and she was asking about Dawson and Joey and he's like, well, whatever.
Speaker 1:And she's like, well, what about Dawson and Jen? He's like, well, I just think what you really need right now is a friend. And she's like, yeah, that'd be nice. So he like gives her a hug and everything. She's going through a hard time. And he's like, okay, I gotta go. And he's like and don't be so sad, don't hate the world, it's nice out. And I'm like what the fuck are you doing? Like she just told you that she's sad and she hates the world and she's obviously having a hard time. He's like you need a friend. Okay, bye, don't hate the world, it's nice out. Hello. Oblivious dawson, oblivious dawson.
Speaker 1:And do you think? Do you think that's bad writing or do you think they did that on purpose to make dawson seem? Oh, no, I think they did that on purpose. Okay, but it's just annoying. I don't like it. It's annoying. Yeah, it's. It's like you need a friend. It should be me just kidding bye. Yeah, how are you being a friend? And also, why are you still grieving? It's nice outside, hello, or like you know, okay, you need a friend. I have plans. Why don't we get together after I don't know something? But also he's a teenage boy, so maybe, yeah, we have a touch with and I mean the with graham's not grieving was interesting too.
Speaker 1:Graham's not grieving in the way that jen wanted her to. Well, I thought that was interesting. But I I understood what graham's was saying because for her, like she was saying, he had a stroke and for two years he's been bedridden and she's, like I just prayed for his release because she knew he was living a life that he didn't like. That was not him, right. So I can understand you kind of, probably from her point. Like she said they were together 40 years or something right, wow, yeah, something like that. And so you have to get to a point where you can start to distance or you're going to shatter and then you have to think, okay, like this is not the life they want. So I have to just be okay with this.
Speaker 1:And I don't think she was okay. She was sad, but I think she had been grieving for two years already. That's what I was thinking, you know what I mean. Like her grief point already came, yeah, probably when she realized he was not going to ever get better, right and, and you know, again, that's like interesting, like with with real life, like even with my mom, like we have alz, you know, it's like you've already kind of I'm not saying it will be good when eventually she passes or that I won't be sad or that my family won't be you would traditionally grieve, isn't there, right?
Speaker 1:And it doesn't make them less of a person or undeserving of safety and love and all those things which I do think graham obviously provided to him well, yeah, and jen too, uh, but it is not happiness, but yeah, like you said, like really Like release, relief, like knowing that you did do all physically and mentally and emotionally that you could for the person and then that was just their time to go. And I do think I mean probably to a piece of this that nobody ever talks about, with full-time caretaking. There probably is a sense of relief that nobody wants to say because you feel guilty, but it's okay, it's normal to feel that you know, for two years she's had her spouse in bed like with no, you know, I mean she, her whole life has had to revolve around that. Yeah, so there probably was a sense of relief as well, especially because he was not living a life she knew he would want to be living. Right, do you know what I'm saying? Yes, and I think that that is okay. So that's probably another piece of it for her, you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just I know we talked about this last season where we always just feel so bad for the loneliness of Jen. Oh, yeah, the loneliness, it's so heartbreaking and I really felt that this episode, even though I agree with what you're saying about Graham and her grieving process, it does feel like Jen is alone, yeah, in this journey again. Yeah, yeah, whether it's right, wrong, not like it just is well, she doesn't have. You know, like, even before dawson and joey were like dating, they had each other like besties. And it's hard as somebody who has moved, even as an adult and you've moved, you know, know, you've switched schools it's hard being the new person when everybody else is established, yes, and then you have something shitty happen and you don't have a person, yeah, and the people around you are like, oh, I'm sorry, oh, you need friends, but then I already have this whole life, right. And then, like, her grandmother is not exactly her favorite person in the world either, right, her grandmother is not exactly her favorite person in the world either, right, so yeah, I do. And jen goes through it this season, guys. So I'm just, if you haven't watched it, yeah, their stuff, she goes through it.
Speaker 1:So the loneliness and the I I think that's interesting to have all of that angst kind of focused on one character. I mean, obviously they all have their own things going on and and all that, but to have all of that on the shoulders of one character is an interesting choice. Well, they do bring in other things this season because they well, you have to remember, this is like a nineties you know, drama, teen drama, so you have to have your token people, right, right, you, drama, teen drama, so you have to have your token people, right, right, you have to have your girl next door. That's joey. You have to have your. You know cute little heartthrob, sarcastic person. That's pacey. You gotta have you know sort of narrator, right, main person, that's awesome, of course. And then there's gonna be other characters that pop in. I'm not going to tell you who Andy is at the moment, but, like you know, and then Jack, he has a whole storyline that he is a token for right, etc. Etc. So I think Jen is just the token outsider and and then she becomes the troubled person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's giving Shannon Doherty. Yeah, and I know to know that was another reference they madeherty in 90210. That was another reference they made. Yeah, about 90210. That was it. And I was like, oh yes, this is so great Like I'll just watch 90210 or whatever. Yeah, that was that was crazy.
Speaker 1:So what about the storyline? Now that we've mentioned their names, with Mitch and him, what's going on there? I've heard a sad face because I just I feel for Dawson's dad because he, you know, gail, she'd be like, you know, trying to jump in first thing in the morning and then be like, oh, I rushing home from where I could be and like I don't ever want you to doubt me again. And it's like bitch, he can't just get over it, like and I, she's not really, she wants, and I get it because she wants to just be like let's move on, like I fucked up, let's move on, I'm sorry, let's fix it. But, but it's easy to say when you're the one doing the thing, yeah, but when you're the one feeling the effects of the actions, you can't just move on Right. And he is going through that super hard struggle of all. Right, can I live with this the rest of my life and move on, or I just need to be done with it? And it's a hard ask.
Speaker 1:And she doesn't like that, right, because she's like just either divorce me or say yes, and he's like I don't, I don't know, and I think that's unfair of her to like make your decision, right, like well, you've been having an affair for all this time. You were not making a decision. You wanted to be sleeping with this guy and being married, so be sleeping with this guy and being married. So, right, and really honestly, she never really did make a decision. She got caught. She got caught. Yeah, it's not like she came down and said I'm so sorry, I've thought about it or I really fucked up and over and I processed it, but it was like no, no, no, it was like I'm caught.
Speaker 1:And now, oh shit, what do I do? Right, because because probably in his brain, if it me, he's thinking well, how much longer would this have gone on? Will this happen again? That's not even with the same person, right? Is it just a tendency? And and like they could do it once? Could they do it? And if there was a reason for it happening once. Obviously he's like what? It's empty, everyone don't worry. Don't worry, guys, everything's fine.
Speaker 1:So I just I feel, for I feel for him more than I feel for her. Yeah, I really do, I get that, I get that and and it's, it's shitty and like now that I've been married as long as them I can, I, that would take the wind out of my sails, and then some some. If I had to deal with that, yeah, and I don't, I would probably be like him, I'd be like I, I I don't know what to do, right, and I and I agree with you Like I don't think he needs to know right now. But then the other side of that is at some point you have to, like you said, come to a full decision, yeah, which is either a full walk away or a full. Maybe I'm not okay today, right, but I'm committing to being okay for the rest of my life, because I'm not going to be a martyr or live in resentment or or put my family through that for the rest of my life. So at some point you have to pick something.
Speaker 1:I actually wondered in that first scene and this is just maybe cynical me, when he didn't want to. I was like, well, is he having an affair? But then you see later on, like I think that's kind of an unfair gender stereotype. Maybe that's not in there. Do you think Because she had an affair? No, no, no, I'm saying because he wasn't in the mood. Oh, maybe you're like, you're thinking there had to be a deeper reason. So is that a gender stereotype? I don't know, that's what I was just wondering. Or is that like, actually true, like, like well, I think I I will say this as much as I hate on the patriarchy all the time yes, I do think there are some unfair stereotypes put upon men with sex. Okay, there are times like he is going through it emotionally and doesn't? He did not.
Speaker 1:His wife was in this, his beautiful wife throwing herself at him and this cute little nightie first thing in the morning, which, if you know anything about hormones for men, usually good time, perfect time, good time to catch them. But I think it's unfair Not that you were doing this, no, no, I know but I think that it is an unfair thing to think that men also can't have emotions, shut them down physically, okay, because we are led to believe that they can have sex for most of the time, yes, but also, emotions can stand in the way, like, and that's what was happening. So I appreciated that he's not having an affair. By the way spoiler alert, okay, that that was there because it. It wasn't because of that, it wasn't because his right, his sexual desires, are being met somewhere else, it was because he didn't have them right in that moment. For her, the emotions, exactly yeah, but Exactly yeah. But I think I think we don't. We don't expect men um, I'll, you know straight, men, I guess, is probably a better. We don't expect them to have that same emotional response. We expect that their physical needs always overcome their emotions and with women, it's the reverse, right, and I don't think that that's all the time true In either way, in either case, right, I think we are led to believe that so strongly that we've made ourselves think that, yeah, I also think too.
Speaker 1:Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. No, I mean, and when you say, like you hate on the patriarchy, that't that, but that is the patriarchy, you're not saying it's, you're right, it's you're saying individual, the individuals that have to live by those patriarchal rules, but the patriarchy hurts men too. Well, that's what I'm saying, yeah, that the men, it's not the individual men necessarily, it's the system of that, correct, right, that that would cause us to think that other people, as well as men, to think, oh, what is wrong with me? Right, because there's nothing, for example, like when you said it made you think, oh, is he having an affair? Yeah, that would be feeding into that patriarchal ideal, because why wouldn't he? Just, why wouldn't he? She's there and cute and who cares if she heard his feelings, you know, right.
Speaker 1:Which also, like the other component of that is I just know how things were written at the time. I know so there was that too. I know when I was like, oh, are they trying to tell us through this? Correct, but again that. But they were written like that because it right that that's an easy storyline. Yeah, because everyone will absorb that and believe that, right? So does that mean that in this storyline, the dawson's creek writers are actually being a little bit elevated? Maybe, wow, maybe, but I don't think they intended to. I think they did it by accident. It's an accidental or or to throw us off the scent, I know, to make us think that. But then he goes to see a divorce lawyer or whatever, and you like, see, oh, it's not that, it's just he was thinking about probably more, more of that, more that, just to like, yeah, confuse us. Yeah, to throw us, which is not the, not the hardest thing to do, my friends, not back then or now. What else you got? Okay, I think I only have one more thing.
Speaker 1:So, while Joey's getting ready to go on the movie date, there's a song that comes on and I instantly remembered all the words to it because it was on that soundtrack that I had the Dawson's Creek soundtrack. Oh right, I was trying to figure out what some of them were. Yeah, oh right, I was trying to figure out what some of them were. Yeah, and I. The song. It was like I'm coming, I'm coming home to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as soon as I heard those two, those two phrases, I was like I know the rest of the song, I remember every single word. Oh, my god, isn't that weird. I was like how do I know? It's so weird, how, like, music can stay in your brain but like you can't remember where you put your keys. Yeah, like I haven't, probably haven't heard that song since 1999. Well, no, because why would I? It wasn't like a popular song. It was one that was just on that soundtrack cd that I would to. Yeah, so, probably early 2000. And it's not like it's been replayed over the years on things that you listen to. So like over 20 years ago I had probably haven't heard that song, but I and I loved it. I love that I had some really good harmonies, did you notice. And so that's probably why I used to like it so much, cause I could.
Speaker 1:There was always a line for me to sing Um, me to sing um, uh, that's why I know I, that's why I love the indigo girls so much. Yes, they're a good example. Oh, my god, I love the alto harmonies and there's alto two harmonies on indigo girls. Yeah, yeah, they got, they got some. Anyway, that was that was my last thing. What else? Yeah, that was it too. Oh, you know, yeah, that was it. I was just a double check. Yeah, that was it. I was just double check, yeah, that was it. And I was curious like what's gonna happen with because, because I knew andy had a brother, so I was, I remember, thinking at the end, I wonder when he comes in. And then, um, also, just, I, I guess I thought that jen's hair was already short, but that wouldn't have made sense because we're still in.
Speaker 1:She has a whole scene where she cuts it. Okay, yeah, maybe that's just me remembering that at some point jen cuts her hair and now watching it again going yeah, jen got a haircut for season two. Yeah, but if you like were watching it in order, that wouldn't make sense. You're like, wait, where's jen's long hair? But I guess because, like retro, retrospectively, I'm like, yeah, her hair's short in season two. Yeah, even though storyline that wouldn't have made sense for this one. No, but I think it's coming up. I want to say she cuts it. It's soonish. I thought she cut it the first episode, but obviously that didn't happen yet. It must be the second. It must be coming up, yeah, so we'll keep watching as long as we can access it. I am intrigued. Yeah, I need to. I need to find the haircutting one. Uh, like today, we'll find it somewhere, somewhere, somehow. Also, we should probably pause for a second and talk about James Vanderbeek did just announced recently he has stage three um colon cancer.
Speaker 1:Oh, I did not see that literally recently, just like over the holidays or something. Um, I want to say it was in the month of December, yeah, cause I kept meaning to talk to you about it and we had lots of other things happening. Yeah, but yeah, it's really sad. And he has a big family. Stage three is, I mean, it's not incurable, but that's pretty far along. It's really sad.
Speaker 1:And he's young. I mean he's our age, yeah, he's our age, and he's got five or six kids. Yeah, I don't know a lot, a lot, but I, he, I think he started speaking about it just to raise awareness. Yeah, good, I mean good that he's doing that. But, like, also, if he didn't want to do that, totally fine. His private information is. But he's got a broad reach and I think a lot of people, especially our age, we're getting to that. We're not there yet. We're getting to that colonoscopy age, unless we have a risk factor.
Speaker 1:So having someone who we view as a peer say, I have this thing, I think could help a lot of people and save a lot of lives. Well, I mean, I don't know if you remember years and years back when Katie Couric's husband got diagnosed and she did hers on air on the Today Show. When that happened, women, especially the rate of them getting their colon screenings, went up exponentially. Yeah, so I mean it for people who think it doesn't matter. A celebrity celebrities like talk about stuff. It does, though it does, it really does. It's just like when we talked about it with X-Files, um, with um, jillian Anderson playing a forensic scientist that is called the Scully effect, like it is now a societal like term because again, exponentially, rates went up with women in that job profession. So it does, I mean it makes it does make a difference, but it just made me sad to see that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so gosh, wishing him well and hopefully he will have access, I'm sure, to the best care out there, as much as he can get, and certainly for his children's case, I mean he's got little little ones and it's also. It's also too like jarring because he's a really healthy guy, like he talks a lot about, like he takes very good care of himself with what he puts into his body and how he moves his body, and like he's a very like health conscious person. Yeah, they like live on a farm and like grow their own food and like all the things that now they're not off the grid but like a little bit that rural lifestyle, they're very in tune with nature and health and all Very holistic, yeah, and so to see like, oh gosh, even he has a deal with cancer is it's jarring. You know, I think that's maybe the most important thing that he can bring to this is that I don't mean this like to be ominous, but like no one is safe. So, like, get screened. Yeah, get the medication that's available to you If you notice signs. Yeah, like, don't just think it's, oh, that's for people who have, maybe on what I view as an unhealthy lifestyle, or yeah, whatever, and and I do this, this and this I mean, yes, his age and his celebrity, for sure, but what you just mentioned might be, like the biggest way he helps this cause, yeah, is people realizing. And he's, and he's younger than the risk age. I know A lot younger, it's 50, sometimes even older than that before they even screen you Dang.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, we're wishing him well. We'll keep an eye on that during this season Nostalgic or problematic and hopefully we will be able to watch some more. I don't know, we'll figure it out. We'll keep you guys posted. We'll watch as long as we can, as long as they're on Prime. Let us know what you think of season two of Dawson's Creek. As long as you can watch it. Yeah, and I know some of you listen and don't watch Dawson, so we're kind of giving you, you're going to learn all about it. You're going to learn about season two by listening to. I know I love that. I love y'all that listen to these Dawson's episodes and have no fucking clue what we're talking about. It's even better because you're like what is this show? It's the 90s, that's what it is, baby. But thanks again for listening. We'll see you back on for another normal episode. See you soon. Bye.
