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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between. If you love 1980's and 1990's pop culture content, this is the podcast for you!
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
American Girl Dolls & Books: Xennial Icons
Did you used to dress your dolls in specific eras of American history?
OR did you have one that looked exactly like you and shared your hobbies?
OR did your parents tell you those dolls were too expensive, and just gave you the books instead?
If you feel any of these moments, you might be a Xennial. And we are too.
Join us today as we delve deeply into the origin of these 80's babies that took America by storm.
This episode was made possible by the following sources:
American Girl official website
American Girl on Wikipedia
Facts about American Girl, via Good Housekeeping
https://19thnews.org/2022/12/american-girl-book-inclusivity-right-wing-backlash/
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Email us at generationinbetweenpodcast@gmail.com
Request an episode topic here
Do you like your American history fictionalized and with a female protagonist? Are you team?
Speaker 2:Samantha, molly, kirsten or Addie.
Speaker 1:If you've ever designed a doll to look just like you or had your parents tell you that doing such a thing was way too expensive, you might be a Zennial American Girl fan, and we are too. Hi, I'm Katie.
Speaker 2:And I'm Dani and welcome everyone to Generation In Between, a Zennial podcast where we remember, revisit and relearn all kinds of things from our 80s childhoods and 90s teens slash young adulthood.
Speaker 1:That's right. And today we are continuing in the spirit of the holiday season with an episode on the item. Millions of kiddos hoped they could unwrap and hug on Christmas morning American Girl dolls and books, of course, although you can't really hug a book, well, you would hug a book I probably have hugged books yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:That's not even funny.
Speaker 1:Why are we laughing? I don't know I'm thinking of you hugging a big stack of books. I'm going to do that today. Well, that's awesome, but before we get too into that, Dani, I'm going to put you on the spot. Oh great. Do you know what Saturday is Double show day? Yes, that's true, Double show day. We listeners. We are both in A Christmas Story at the Hennigrave. We do have two shows Saturday, but it's something else.
Speaker 2:December 7th Is it when they were first released?
Speaker 1:American Girl Dolls. No, it's not related to American Girl Dolls.
Speaker 2:It's a real life thing. December 7th, is it something sad? No oh okay, welcome to the show. Here's something sad. Oh, let me just apologize everybody. I've had mucus either in my throat. Now it has moved up to my sinuses for like a week and a half and it is just not leaving. So, excuse me, while I sound weird, that's all right, Perfect.
Speaker 1:I'm taking most of the leads, so you'll only have to sound weird a little. December 7th. December 7th is our one year podiversary it is. We were recording before that, but our first episode went live that was the one on pagers December 7th 2023. That's crazy, so it's almost been a year. So we'll have to reflect on that, maybe in our bonus episode.
Speaker 2:I know maybe we should do that in the new year. That would be fun. A whole episode, that would be really fun. Let's do it, let's do it, let's do it.
Speaker 1:What has been your favorite episode so far? I'm just going to continue to put you on the spot.
Speaker 2:Off the top of your head. I was thinking of that when you said it's a year because we've had so many good ones. I can tell you what my least favorite was. Let's hear, I already know, but tell me all the true crime. Y'all know I don't like true crime, yeah, at my least, uh. But my favorite ones, I think honestly, are the ones that we like, did spur the moment, like when we're like we don't have time, let's do. Trivia, let's do. Or the tasting, like taste testing was so fun that was really fun.
Speaker 1:Those are my faves, I think yeah, those are really fun and hopefully we'll do well, not necessarily more spur of the moment, because we're trying. I know I feel like we've been pretty organized, but we're trying to be even better. Yes, speaking of, we are still working on YouTube. We thank you all for hanging in Today. If you came and saw one of the first ones we upload and you're like, nah, come back, because this one, we have good lighting. We're using a new streaming platform, not Zoom, no offense. Zoom, you're great for video conferencing, maybe not so great for podcast videos.
Speaker 2:I don't think you're supposed to use Zoom for podcast.
Speaker 1:I don't think so either. So we're on a podcast specific platform we won't name yet, because we're going to see how much we like it. Yeah, um, and moving the camera a little closer, better angles. Oh, and another really important thing yeah, we did not work out first.
Speaker 2:We did not. I was telling Katie like we were sitting there texting back and forth like how can we make this better? Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, honestly, we usually do Katie's workout before we record. Cause we workout before we record because we try and just if y'all know Katie, she tries to get as much done in one time as she can because she has a lot happening. Okay, so we try to have a block of time where we can just knock a whole bunch of things off our list, but then we look so raggedy horrendous we're like just giant sweaters, sweatshirts over the sweaty clothes, but then our no makeup and our hair is all matted and I don't know and I not a good start, you know.
Speaker 2:And I actually put in contacts today cause I actually got some more. I was like I had like three pairs left. I wear dailies and I don't like to wear my glasses on a daily basis, um, just cause they get in my way. This is like old people problems. But my eye doctor would not answer the phone. Guys, oh, I emailed them, I called them, I left messages. I needed more stupid contacts, yeah. So finally I drove over to the office. Oh no, I was like hello, can I please have my prescription?
Speaker 1:they're like sure, oh, hello, anyway, they just want to see you.
Speaker 2:I don't know why we're talking about contacts.
Speaker 1:Well, that's okay so come find us on youtube. Podiversary more on that to come. So, whether you're an og jennifer or a new listener, we are glad you are here. Yes, and here are some really quick ways you can help us. By the way, here on the show, you can leave us a five-star review wherever you are listening, any platform you can also do the five-star review wherever you are listening Any platform. You can also do the same on Facebook. Leave a comment and a five-star review. What else, yeah?
Speaker 2:Oh, share us. Share us on social media, on all the platforms. We're still trying with TikTok guys. I just realized today oh yeah, we haven't been doing that in a while.
Speaker 1:We're going to be back. If we get some good YouTube clips, we can make shorts from that too.
Speaker 2:Yes, Yay, and just tell your friends about us. If your friends want a sticker, let us know. We still have some.
Speaker 1:We have stickers we will send them for free. And if you are a deep, deep cut fan, head on over to Patreon and become a subscriber. And we're also on Apple Podcasts now. I tell you I got that in place this morning.
Speaker 2:Wait, we've been on Apple.
Speaker 1:Podcasts Sorry, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts. So you could always subscribe to the normal feed, but you can be a patron now on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2:Oh for their little like extra stuff on Apple Plus or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you would like our bonus episodes, you don't have to go to the Patreon app. If you're paying $8 a month, it'll show up in your Apple feed.
Speaker 2:Ooh that makes it easy for people like me who just want to click and make it easy, and they're both the same.
Speaker 1:So if you're already on Patreon, then you can stay put. But if you want to, just yeah, if you just want to give it a shot and I believe Apple gives a three-day trial as well, so you can give it a shot and be like eh, which you probably won't be, because some of those bonus episodes are hilarious, They'd be crazy and also like, if you don't want to to do that, that's fine, the best thing you can do because, listen, I am one of those people who's like if it costs money, I'm not doing it.
Speaker 2:I am the worst and here I am telling people come do this. And then all my podcasts.
Speaker 1:I'm like, I'm not doing that, but anyway the best thing you can do is share us, share us, share us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and review us as well, because that helps us a lot.
Speaker 1:Yes, and subscribe on YouTube even if you're not going to watch us there. We're up to nine, so I would love to get in the double digits this week, y'all, maybe you could be lucky.
Speaker 2:Maybe, you could be the 10th person to watch SB Raggedy on YouTube?
Speaker 1:Yes, and you don't even have to watch, just subscribe.
Speaker 2:Do people? I mean, is that like a thing, like I didn't know that people would listen to podcasts, watch podcasts on YouTube? They do. Okay, I see, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really don't. I like podcasts because they're audio and I can well, as you mentioned at the top of the episode, I can be doing a hundred other things, but some people even like it on the background, like Carlos. When he's working, he'll turn on the YouTube and he'll still be able to like, look up and watch us while he's doing other stuff, and he likes that. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:Like I would be so distracted. That's crazy.
Speaker 1:Like I would be so distracted trying to do actual work and hear us jibber-jabbering agree, but you know it takes all kinds. There are people who can, there's like several people who listen at work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like that, they've told us they listen to us at work and I'm like are we like the um saturday night live npr. Ladies, ladies, do you know?
Speaker 1:the sweaty balls. That's a great podcast.
Speaker 2:That's not my. I can't even fake that voice Cause. Oh my gosh, it's so good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're like them, but anyway, the point is whether you're listening on Apple, patreon, spotify, watching on YouTube on our Tik TOK. God bless you. Um, we're thankful for you and just keep sharing as much as you can. Sharing is caring. Sharing is caring. Alright, dani, I'm so ready. I think it's time to meet these dolls. Let's go, but first let's meet the dolls. Let's meet the dolls for the first time ever. That sounds like a but first tell me, did you have American Girl dolls books or any of their?
Speaker 2:merch. Okay, guess what I found the other day.
Speaker 1:Oh my God.
Speaker 2:I'm going to pull. I have my phone in my hand because I took a picture of this. I had the original American Girl doll. Yes, samantha, samantha. And I actually have a picture of me on Christmas morning with her. I think it was the year after I had her. Okay, I don't think it was the year I got her, oh gotcha, but it was written on the back that it was Christmas 1988. Because my grandma would write on the back of pictures when stuff was Thank God, because we never did.
Speaker 1:Mine too, my grandma did.
Speaker 2:And here it is. Look, and she was in her full little outfit.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, that was just in the reel you posted, wasn't it? Oh, did I? Maybe not?
Speaker 2:No, I think I waited, look how glamorous we look, so good yeah.
Speaker 1:My sister with her feather bangs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyway, that was 1988. Yeah, christmas 1988. That's awesome. So I don't know if that's the Christmas I got her or I don't know, but it could have been.
Speaker 1:I did have her timing.
Speaker 2:It could have been, and when I remember and I'm sure we'll go into all this when you start going over it she was the only one for a while, and then Kirsten, maybe I don't know, I'm not trying to say your thunder, but she was the only one I had, and the main reason I wanted her this is so stupid and will sound really dumb in 2024 was because she had brown hair and brown eyes. Yeah, and you couldn't find a lot of doll. I mean, there wasn't a lot of representation for anyone.
Speaker 2:Well, hold on. I mean obviously diversity was lacking hugely, but I remember like being so excited she had brown hair and brown eyes which sounds so dumb because now I mean they're everywhere.
Speaker 1:but yeah, no, that doesn't sound dumb and I mean it's a good reminder, right Like that. We feel comfort in and feel seen in things like toys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean now, granted, there were plenty. I mean like I hate to even say that like representation. I hate to even say that representation because there's tons of white dolls out there, you know what.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know you weren't saying like I know what you mean, yeah, I get you Anyway. So, anyway, so did you have them? I did not have the dolls. Oh yeah, my parents were of the camp that they were too expensive. Yeah, they were very pricey and we'll get into that. But I did get a lot of the books because I get the books separate.
Speaker 1:So I had all of Samantha's books, all of Kirsten's books, molly's books, later on I had Addie's books and I really love them and then we'll get into this too. But you could only buy them through mail order catalog. Yeah, originally, yep, you could. They weren't at stores and the internet didn't exist. Well, it might have, but not for consumers, so you couldn't buy them online. So I remember the catalog coming, oh yeah, and even those early years, um, it would have like the early years of their existence. It had, of course, the dolls and the books. But have all this extra stuff you could get. But I never had a doll, never did. Oh I know, do your kids have one? Um two of them do. Okay, amelia and I did the like trip to the american girl, uh, store in orlando.
Speaker 1:So I'll pull up some of those pictures for the social I want to say she was like eight or nine, so there's a picture of her coming out with like a big bag and it's really cute. For a while she wanted all the stuff for it, like the, the bike and I don't know, the house, all the stuff. And then, um, and I think I was kind of vicariously like living for that.
Speaker 1:We do that and then erin, I think, has one, but I think someone gave it to us, yeah, so none of them have been like huge, huge into it, but there've been little snippets of it here or there.
Speaker 2:you know what used to happen to me. This cause I have two boys, everybody. And I mean not that boys can't play with dolls, but mine didn't want to. And um, I I don't know who put me on an American girl mailing list, but for years, every Christmas I would get this American girl catalog. Oh my gosh, and I'm like this is cruel torture for somebody who does not. Right, you can't anybody that wants these dolls.
Speaker 1:And I'd be like I want that, cause you don't have any nieces either Do you, no I mean my sister does.
Speaker 2:They have chosen not to have children, as well as Troy's older sister, and then his other siblings are younger, Right. And then, well, I do. Ooh, I need to probably revert my step siblings. My step sister has um a do. Oh, I need to probably revert my step siblings. My step sister has a daughter and son, but we're not very close.
Speaker 1:Got it, so you wouldn't buy her an American girl, and then my step brother has boys, right.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I would not Like, if I got her, that I wouldn't.
Speaker 1:Right and again boys could want that, but that's probably not something you're going to like, go out and buy for them without them expressly saying they want it, for sure.
Speaker 2:But they did not want that, yeah, and so I'd get this catalog and I'd be like dang it again. So they still have a catalog. Well, I don't know, this was like back. I don't remember where we lived, it was like years ago, but I swear and we moved all the time and it would follow me every Christmas. I'm like dang it.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, that's amazing. This is so mean, but now I really want one, so I'll have to look that up. All this research I did and I don't know the answer to that. The catalog yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure they still do.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm pretty sure. Okay, so we've come this far, but I'm just going to give everyone definition of American Girl dolls. Okay, okay, in case you don't know or you need a little reminder. So American Girl is an American line of 18 inch dolls released on May 5th 1986 by Pleasant Company. The dolls portray eight to 14 year old girls of various ethnicities, faiths, nationalities and social classes throughout different time periods in history, and they're sold with accompanying books told from the viewpoint of the girls. Originally, the stories focused on various periods of american history, but they have expanded now to include characters and stories from contemporary life. Oh, so it's not just historic periods anymore which we'll get into, but originally it was meant as sort of historical fiction.
Speaker 2:yeah, and like american girl. When I remember when it came out, it was not the american girl we have now capitalism yes, like they didn't have tons of stuff, extra stuff there and it was more. I felt like it was more. I don't want to say simple because that's not the right answer, but it wasn't as like, like they were dolls, but I felt like the history piece was bigger, was a big deal Do you know, what I mean. Yeah, I don't know why I remember that, but I do remember that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I remember that too. So just a little overview Since 1986, 162 million books have been sold, wow, right. And 36 million dolls have been sold to the company's catalog, retail stores and website. So that's an example there 36 million dolls, but 162 million books, so there's more books sold over time than the dolls, although, to be fair, one doll would have several books, right. So there's that.
Speaker 2:They're like a collection, Right, and when you would back in the day when you would buy a doll, it would come with a book or two.
Speaker 1:It came with like a six book series. Oh, it did.
Speaker 2:Let's see, I remember that. Yeah, okay, according to this, so, oh wait, I do remember that. Yeah, it was like the whole series.
Speaker 1:You would get the whole series, yeah, and they weren't like super thick or anything but, they were pretty short. And then their retail stores have welcomed over 114 million visitors and they really kind of paved the way for experiential retail, meaning you don't just go buy something you experience the.
Speaker 1:Thing while you are there. They really kind of were at the forefront of that, which we see a lot more now, but that was a big deal when they started doing like their little theater and their tea parties and there was like a doll boutique where you take your doll and your doll could get its hair done and they still have all this and their makeup and yeah, they kind of were at the forefront of all of that I love that so much so cute, it's so ridiculous, but I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it too. It's fun. I it's probably a good thing. I did not have children that wanted dolls because I would have spent a fortune you'd have everything in here right now. We'd be like, wow, I mean because, to be fair, though, like we are still spending a fortune now because the kids are into video games, and like collecting cards.
Speaker 1:So what's the difference? I know, but that's one thing I had fun with that, and I'm just like you're like dr mario. Please can we just play that over and over again I love that you can get their hair done.
Speaker 2:That's so cute.
Speaker 1:It's so cute and their social media channels today have over three million followers. What do they do on there? Um, they post about the different girls. There's still dolls that come out and books that come out. We're going to talk about that. Um, they have a girl of the year every year, so it's like introducing a new character and she has her own book and she looks a certain way and so like all of that. And then they have a lot of the historical stuff too on their social, and then they also have a virtual museum so you can go like an official I mean, you can go anywhere online and find the history of this stuff and all the different dolls, but it's like their official.
Speaker 1:Here's the dolls that came out and here's all the things you want to know about them and the different characters and books. It's pretty cool. I went and checked it out. I liked it, so I mentioned that it was released by Pleasant Company.
Speaker 1:So, let me tell you a little more about that. So the American Girl brand was the brainchild of someone named Pleasant Rowland. Wait, their name was Pleasant. Her name is Pleasant. That is so cute. Yes, she is an educator and an entrepreneur. No, duh, yeah, born in 1941. She is still alive and is 83.
Speaker 2:Go girl.
Speaker 1:You go.
Speaker 2:Pleasant, but you know what? If you have a name like Pleasant. If you're in a bad mood one day, you're like I'm Pleasant. It's me. That's a lot to live up to. If you name a kid Pleasant, they either have to be the opposite, or that I know you can't be in between.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't it be funny if they were just the grumpiest person?
Speaker 2:in the world That'd be awesome.
Speaker 1:So obviously I don't know her well. She doesn't do a lot of like interviews and stuff, but the pictures I saw of her and everything, you don't know her well, I don't, just a little. I only have met her zero times and seen her face to face negative three times. But she does seem pleasant, pleasant, she really does. She seems like she lives up to her name.
Speaker 1:So she was very highly educated from an uh like a affluent family in chicago. She became a school teacher in the 1960s and actually got into writing textbooks okay and was pretty successful at that, which will come back in a minute and then she actually became a news reporter for a while and so she was visiting colonial williamsburg in the early 1980s and she does not have children of her own and she noticed a toy gap in the market when she was trying to find dolls for her nieces and she was like at this really cool historical place and there was like literally like nothing to buy for them. That was fun really. The only option was like barbie, you know, which was like fine, but she was like, hmm, I think we're like really missing out on something here. So from that idea she started the american girl doll company.
Speaker 2:At age 45 you go middle age okay, so like there's still time for us, my friend. I mean, I'm not making dolls, but let's hey to have a great idea in my notes.
Speaker 1:I put pause for zennial effect.
Speaker 2:No, you did not I did, she totally did guys in caps, in all caps.
Speaker 1:Um pause, what does that mean? What is what I wanted?
Speaker 2:all the 40s, 42 and 43 year olds listening to be like wow, like like we could hear them Pause for applause, even though no one's here and this is not live. Well, you should have had a bigger reaction. I'm sorry, you're right.
Speaker 1:It's the cold meds it is. It is it's delaying your zennial effects, so zennial effects. So she of course, saw this opportunity to create this product that combined historical education with imaginative play, and she was very big into literacy and reading. That's kind of her specialty. So by this time she actually lived in Wisconsin. So the dolls started their manufacturing days and the book publishing in Madison, wisconsin.
Speaker 2:Everything is in the Midwest.
Speaker 1:I said, these girlies are Midwest born. Seriously, all the time Everything we talk about is like invented in the Midwest, telling you it's those winters, man, I know nothing to do.
Speaker 2:Nothing to do but invent stuff.
Speaker 1:So she's just like pleasant. My friend, the one I don't know that well, she seems like a really cool lady. She's a huge philanthropist, mostly locally, like. She's kind of known through like Wisconsin and then the Midwest, but other places too. So her company, american Girl, was completely self-funded. Wow, she got no loans, no investments. She had saved now this is back in the early what? 1980s 1.2 million dollars in her textbook royalties, what, yeah? So apparently she was really good at writing textbooks, um, and she invested it into her company and she told cnn when they asked her about this years later, american girl seemed like a million dollar idea.
Speaker 1:I did put,000 aside in case all failed and plunged in and, as we know, it paid off, dang. So I found her on Forbes list of like whatever and she's like in the 40s of like whatever list. I was on. They have a zillion lists, oh yeah, and it says on there like self-made millionaire or whatever, like that might've been the list, like people who like did it themselves. Now, granted, you have to have money. Well, you have to. You have to have 1.2 million set aside from the textbooks that you wrote because, like, your parents put you through school.
Speaker 2:Well, I was going to say it all comes back to some kind of privilege to begin with. It does, it does. So you have, like that's a part of the thing, that the whole like meritocracy, like myth, right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's like, oh yeah, if you just work hard enough, you right, you got to have some luck and privilege mixed in with it, cause you got to be able to, first of all, be allowed to be in the right rooms and then to even cause. I mean think how many people have amazing ideas that don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1:Well, in how many years it takes you. Oh yeah, if you're like, I need funding, I need someone to support this. Trust me, I know from trying to like sell businesses or sell book ideas or whatever, even this podcast, like we can't like, someone's going to have to find us or we're going to have to take it to other people and be like hey, don't you want to like not just you guys listeners, but like companies and big podcast networks? Because we don't. I mean, we definitely come from privilege. I'm not saying we don't, but if we had 1.2 million to invest in it, we'd be blowing up, right, I think. I hope.
Speaker 2:I mean, we still have a lot of money, we still have privilege that we have equipment that we can use.
Speaker 2:We have the time to do it? Yep, right, so I think that's it's. That's just interesting, though, cause like I'm sitting here like go, girl go, and I'm like, but also, yeah, she did have you know, and not that not that you can't celebrate her success, but it's still something to be noted. When cause I think that that is a, that is a trick of our country, is that? I was like well, if you just try hard enough and pull yourself up by the bootstraps, man, not really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not really. You have to have help other ways and have to have privilege other ways. But go go pleasant for what you can with what you got and for being a philanthropist on top of that.
Speaker 2:That I love Good job. Because, I'm not going to like throw names under the bus here, but how many rich people do not do that? Yeah, in modern day times yeah, oh, so many.
Speaker 1:We won't say any names because we're not trying to get banned from any particular platforms, but, um, yes, okay. So in 1986 she actually launched the company. There were three dolls at the launch, oh okay. And it was Kirsten Larson, who was a Swedish immigrant, oh right, and she was adapting to a new life on the American frontier in the 1850s. And then Samantha Parkington was an orphan living with her wealthy grandmother, and it explored the contrast of wealth and poverty during the Edwardian era. I forgot her backstory completely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then Molly McIntyre, a spirited girl living during World War II, and she offered insights into life on the home front and the sacrifices made by families during that war. So it's pretty cool. So we already talked about this. When they were first released, it was only the mail order catalog. So they were originally made in Germany by a company called Gots, but the dolls were made in Germany. Yeah, oh, they were originally made in Germany by a company called Gatz, but the dolls were made in Germany. Yeah, oh, they were. I don't know the connection there, like why that was, but they were.
Speaker 1:But and we'll get to this too production shifted to China after Mattel acquired the brand in 1998 and that timing kind of you can see, that's when, like the retail stores, and which again, pleasant doesn't leave the picture for a while, I mean, she's still living on this earth but not involved in the day-to-day anymore. But even when Mattel bought it, she was still involved in the day-to-day for a while. So in 1986, the dolls cost $65. That's a lot. Back then, in 2024, that would be $199. Yeah, so now I'm like okay, mom and dad, I get it Like that's expensive. It put them out of reach for most people. They've actually become more affordable over time, like they cost more but they're more affordable. So just the doll and her book and her basic clothing. So doll book, basic clothing. So doll book basic clothing in 2024 is 125.
Speaker 1:Okay, so like $70 cheaper than when it first launched. If you like, account for inflation, things like that. So in the first two years of the pleasant company launching, these sales grew. The first year was 1.7 million, which is pretty good. She made her investment back to 7.6 million in the first two years Exploded. So as the brand grew, new historical characters were added. Addie Walker we mentioned her in the intro. She was introduced in 1993, and she was the first doll to explore the experience of escaping slavery and rebuilding life and freedom during the Civil War era.
Speaker 2:So I'm wondering about that one, because I was thinking about that when we started talking. I remember when she came out like there's so much more to the, to the black human experience than having to go to slavery, correct. So I'm just you know, know, like I wonder how the black community felt about that, like were they excited or were they disappointed that it was that that?
Speaker 1:that's what it was. Yeah, and obviously over the years it's expanded and there's more. Thank god characters now. Thank goodness um. But I do wonder like how that I don't know how it was received.
Speaker 1:That'd be something to look into. But I do, I will say, and I I consulted, like lots of sources for this. They'll all be listed in the show notes. But, um, it does seem like they take a lot of care with the research and how things are presented. That's good. There's another example of that that we'll come across here in a little bit, with an indigenous character, that communities were consulted and even the design of the doll herself incorporates things that the community requested. Oh, that's good, based on authenticity and that sort of thing. But the other part of it, you know, because some people have complained that these are sort of like oversimplified versions of whatever but they kind of point out like their children's books and their fiction. So it's like how much can you really get into the weeds?
Speaker 2:of some of this stuff. Yeah, I think that's probably where it's important that you have the right resources, informing you, right, because I think too, people are like oh, but it's for kids, blah, blah, blah, correct, but like I think that even to be able to say that as a a position of privilege, right to be able to be like well, I don't, I don't have to tell you about this history because it's not pertinent to you or whatever. I don't know true. So I that that wasn't exactly how.
Speaker 1:I wanted to know. I know what you mean, though I want I just but just.
Speaker 2:But I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that they have had consultants for groups, that they are not a part of Correct and I hope that that has made a difference. But I could see I could cause cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation we've talked about before.
Speaker 2:There is a fine line right, and I think it comes when you're trying to figure it out it's who's benefiting from it and who is informing you about it like so now my brain's going okay, so they had the consultants, that's great, but is the community that they're making money off of getting any benefits?
Speaker 1:Right. Did you find any of that? I don't think so, other than like basic philanthropy, like money going back to yeah. So then that's a whole other thing. It's commercialism based on the stories of other people, right, which?
Speaker 2:would be appropriation Correct and that makes Same with the dolls. Yeah, yeah, because it's like oh yeah, let me bring you in and pay you a fee to consult you about this, but then all the money you're making off this is any going back to the community you're right yeah To causes that you know because appreciation I mean Jamila actually taught me this Both parties have to be benefit like equally beneficial, right.
Speaker 2:So it's, it's like a, it's um, it's not just like a here I'm putting on this costume or I'm selling this doll and making all the money it. Both parties are learning something or whatever, right, so it's appreciating, and I guess that's probably not happening. Maybe that.
Speaker 1:I think, so I think you're probably right. Like they got it half right, right. I will say I remember reading Addie's stories and and really being upset about like the state of all of it which you should right, which is important, which is like the emotion they were trying to elicit, and I was probably the age where that might have been the amount that I could absorb, although that's an argument too, I know, Can we be more honest as people, as children or younger?
Speaker 1:We just assume they don't want to know this or that and it's just slavery was bad, and now we don't do it. That's all that they can comprehend, but maybe that's not true. We don't do it, that's all that they can comprehend, but maybe that's not true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's, and I think too, that opens up a whole other thing. It's not just like when slavery ended that the black community was treated equally Correct, Like we're still in 2024.
Speaker 1:That's the thing, right. It's not just like, oh, it ended and everything was equal, right.
Speaker 2:Because I feel like we were taught that a lot. We were taught that like, oh, the civil war ended, Voila. And then I remember, even as a kid and maybe you're the same way, Cause you're very like, you also think outside the box I remember thinking to myself wait a second. So we had this country that was fighting against each other, and then the war ended and then all of a sudden, we're supposed to believe that all the people who were supporting this just went back. And then I remember thinking but all the people who were enslaved?
Speaker 1:what did they do then?
Speaker 2:I remember thinking that too, and you weren't taught that in school, and I don't know why we can't be more honest about our history in this. Well, I mean I don't know why, but I know what you about our history in this.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean yeah, but I know what you mean and it comes back to things like this it does, yes, I think it can be both. Like we've said, it can exist in both spaces, particularly Addie was 1993. Yeah To say, oh yeah, yes, good for talking about it in this way and introducing like a humanized character through her eyes.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, commercialism I mean, and capitalism and racism and probably patriarchy, because all the things tra la la down the street together they do they do.
Speaker 1:So let's see. Okay, so this is what I was going to say. Each doll's story and I think this includes addie walker, um are they, the company says meticulously researched. But they have this like star author. She doesn't write that much anymore, named valerie trip, who's also a white lady, um, and she is also pretty accomplished. She actually got the job because she's a friend of pleasance. She graduated from yale and has a master's in education from um harvard. So she wrote oh yeah, here it says right here. She wrote all the books in felicity josefina, which was an indigenous character, kit molly and mary ellen, and three of the books in the samantha series. And then she's also written four of the five best friends character stories to date, which are some of the more modern ones so they have a white lady writing the indigenous story yeah now who she consulted, but still don't know.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, okay, so she's kind of like, put hand in hand with these books, okay, um, okay. So then in 1995 so it's still the pleasant company they haven't sold to mattel yet they actually decided to release some contemporary dolls called this is funny, you're going to laugh at this not the name, but what I'm about to say called American Girl of Today. In 2006, they renamed it to Just Like you. In 2010, they renamed it to my American Girl and in 2015, they renamed it to Truly Me, what I don't know, and these are not American Girl dolls.
Speaker 2:They're disconnected.
Speaker 1:They are American Girl dolls, but they're like contemporary dolls, like Bratz or like, so they are the same size and same dimensions as the American Girl dolls. I guess the difference is they're not historical characters. Oh, okay, so the line has over 100 different dolls and each doll has a different combination of face mold, skin tone, eye color, hair color, texture of hair and style. And so American Girl says that they did this to allow customers to choose dolls that represent the individuality and diversity of today's American Girls. So they have contemporary clothing, accessories, furniture, all the things, and they release new ones. That's what I was talking about. Like, every year they have another one that comes out.
Speaker 1:So they're constantly making more of these and each year a Girl of the Year doll is released and usually she has a specific book with her. Claire was the girl of the year for 2008. She was an ice skater. Marisol Luna was the girl of the year for 2005. She was a dancer and then I believe it was like 2022. I don't have it written here. There was one release who had hearing disability and had like a hearing aid and a story that went along with that. So they have all these dolls that maybe don't have stories, they just look different. So they have all these different like things you can pick from, but then, additionally, every year they have like a named one, okay, that has a book, yeah, which may or may not look like you and they're not historical.
Speaker 2:They're just whatever they're not they're contemporary.
Speaker 1:Okay, they're all contemporary, yep. So, as I mentioned, in 1998, pleasant company was acquired by mattel for 700 million dollars yeah um.
Speaker 1:so the brand did continue to produce historical characters for a while. It continued to expand those contemporary dolls um, including that girl of the year line that started when mattel was there. But the historical dolls remain central to the brand's identity at the time, like Mattel said, that was important to them. Okay, some other places you can find American Girl, and we're going to talk about the retail store in a second, but they're in films. In 2004, julia Roberts' company, her production company, produced one direct-to-video movie called Samantha, an American Girl holiday.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it spawned some spinoffs, also through her production company Felicity, an American Girl adventure, molly, an American Girl on the home front, and then a theatrical release. I remember this when it came out in 2008. Do you know the actress, abigail Breslin? What?
Speaker 2:she look like.
Speaker 1:Did you ever see Little Miss Sunshine? Oh, yeah, her. Okay, okay, and this was 2008,. So she was younger. Kit Kittredge in American Girl and that was in theaters. Girl.
Speaker 2:I don't remember that, Although I mean I had a two-year-old and a husband who was deployed.
Speaker 1:There's a reason. You probably didn't see that one, I don't know. And so in 2009, along with those girl of the year dolls uh they started releasing direct to video for each girl that's where the money is yep.
Speaker 1:And then, in october 2016, they began releasing films on amazon prime. Oh, there you go, yep. And then, um, oh, this one's interesting and I did not know this, so our episode may become very relevant at some point. Oh, in february 2019, mattel and mgm announced the development of a live action children's movie based on the doll line and, following the success of the live action barbie movie, mattel is partnering with Paramount Pictures on a live action feature. So they are actually I did not know this, but Mattel is in talks to do live actions for all sorts of their brands.
Speaker 1:Barbie was obviously very successful Hot Wheels is one that's in the works. Lame Magic 8-Ball.
Speaker 2:What? Okay? Polly Pocket? Okay, now, that would be cool. I would like that. That would be cute.
Speaker 1:Rock'em, sock'em Robots oh my God. And Uno, the card game, okay Okay, this is capitalism gone too far, guys, I knew you were going to. I should have put pause for capitalism Pause for capitalism effect yes.
Speaker 2:I whatever Like. I can't lie, though. I loved the Barbie movie. It was good, but you can't replicate that, because I think the Barbie movie was supposed to stand for so many other things than just a movie about a toy. Correct, what the hell is Uno going to stand for?
Speaker 1:That's a very good question. What I don't know if they're, I mean I would guess they'll pick a specific American girl to follow, or maybe it's like a girl who reads American Girl and maybe it's gonna be time travel? That would be cool.
Speaker 2:I would be still there for that excellent adventure. American Girl doll version.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, so okay, so I should have said this at the top of the episode and maybe on the bonus I'll expand, but I finished my first Stephen King book. I know I'm so excited and it was about time travel. Oh, was it? It was really good. I haven't read that one.
Speaker 2:It was kind of like without spoiling it.
Speaker 1:But it was like. The premise is this guy finds this wormhole and thinks that if he can kill Lee Harvey Oswald before he kills JFK, then like the course of history will be improved, like Vietnam won't happen, like all these different things Vietnam, conflict, war, whatever and so it's kind of about him adapting to life, but but the wormhole takes him to 1958. So he has to be there for like five years before he even gets to the point and it's. It's really good and, of course, like he falls in love and it's a whole thing.
Speaker 1:It was quite good and it reminded me I like time travel stuff and I like historical stuff.
Speaker 2:I like time travel stuff. Except I read this book that I hated one time that had time travel in it, and now I can't remember the name of it. Was it the time traveler's wife, maybe I don't know. I hated it. It was so weird and I love weird, but it wasn't the right kind of weird.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I keep going, not the right kind of weird. Okay, time travel back to American Girl. Yes, here we go. American Girl Place, the brick and mortar store. Is there just one? No, no, there are only eight open right now, but at its height there were like 20 all over the world. But now mostly the ones overseas have closed, so they sell American Girl dolls, clothes and accessories. The very first one was 35,000 square feet in.
Speaker 2:Chicago, that's like an Ikea 1998.
Speaker 1:So I remember like going in this as a teenager, like just thinking it was cool, but I was like too old to like get anything, but it was cool. I mean I just remember it's still there, it's huge. Then they had stores in New York City and I told you about one of the services that the store provides is a doll hair salon.
Speaker 1:The dolls can get their ears pierced Get out. Isn't that the cutest thing you've ever heard? That is hilarious. And they also have a doll hospital, kind of going back to our cabbage patch. And you can bring your doll for repair. So, as of March 2024, there are eight remaining retail stores Chicago, new York city, los Angeles, orlando which is when I've been to Charlotte North Carolina, dallas, franklin, tennessee, carolina, dallas, franklin, tennessee and McLean Virginia.
Speaker 2:McLean, I've been there. That's close to um. That's close, that's in the DC area.
Speaker 1:As I say, I think it's kind of like a DC.
Speaker 2:DC adjacent. Yeah yeah, I keep moving around, guys, cause if you're watching on YouTube, my back hurts and my sinuses are bothering me, so I'm just wiggling Katie's like what is she doing?
Speaker 1:No, I don't care.
Speaker 2:If you're watching, that is what's happening. If you're listening to me, then you don't know, but now I just don't know. Now you don't know, but now you can just imagine her wiggling back.
Speaker 1:So you know, every time I look this stuff up I have to look up controversies just to see, we got to know. We've kind of touched on a few more right. So the first, there's nothing like huge, not like lisa, frank craziness, nothing like that that I found anyway. Can you imagine if pleasant rowland was like was like a marriage. Yes, what's to that guy? What's his name?
Speaker 2:frank, no that's no last name, I don't what?
Speaker 1:what's his name? Frank? I feel like. I feel like he had his own last name. He was Frank. Frank, that's how pleasant at the age of 83, he doesn't marry Frank Frank. Okay, so first thing, the price right, so it makes them inaccessible to many kids.
Speaker 1:Of course you can get the books in libraries, even school libraries, but the dolls and the merch, you know we went $125. That's without accessories. You get them the doll, the book and basic accessories 161. So a big critique of it is that the dolls are inaccessible to the communities that they say they're intending to represent. Again, right problem. So like, oh, we're gonna make this doll to look like whoever which, which, again, economics is across all the way people look.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Of course.
Speaker 1:But then the children can't. There's only certain kids of a certain socioeconomic class that can even access these.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, so that's a big one, because you're catering to like just talking from an economic standpoint. So basically, upper middle class kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But economic wise, but saying they're educational and you know right, but saying they're trying to educate on all kinds of stuff, but then you're only accessing. You know what this is. This is so random and I'm just going to throw that out there Cause it's in my brain. I didn't know this about Shaquille O'Neal. Okay, I didn't know this about Shaquille O'Neal. Okay, wait, is it him or somebody else?
Speaker 1:I think I know what you're going to say, and if you are, it's him, is it him? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:I didn't know this, but I think this is so neat and he applies to Zennial stuff and I just have to throw this in there because I wish more celebrities would do stuff like this. Cooper was telling me one day that Shaq designed shoes to sell at Walmart because he was so frustrated. Now, granted the fact that he has made a lot of money on endorsements and stuff, but he really does give a lot back. Like if you look into celebrities that give things back, he's you can find a lot. But anyway he said he wanted to design shoes to sell at Walmart. So kids who can't afford, like Jordan.
Speaker 2:Jordan you know, the Nikes and all the stuff could have access to some cool sneakers and they are cool Cause I. What happened was we saw him one day in Walmart and I was like, oh, those are cool. And he's like, oh yeah, that's check. And I don't know how Cooper knew that by YouTube, how the kids know everything.
Speaker 1:TikTok, who knows?
Speaker 2:But I think that's important to recognize, like with companies, who knows? But I think that's important to recognize. Like with companies, are you, like, really trying to reach everybody or are you just trying to make your dollar? Because that's capitalism, I mean, right, but I think there's ways where you can adjust, like maybe you don't make as much money in your company, but then more kids are able to enjoy and learn from your dolls.
Speaker 1:Right, and the things that come with them, the books and all the things. Yeah, absolutely yeah, I agree. So that's just like the forever and ever not controversy, but criticism.
Speaker 1:Then, in May 2014, the company was met with criticism on social media because it decided to discontinue four characters, the originals from the historical collection. Two of them one was an african-american doll, cecile ray, and then a chinese-american doll, ivy ling. They said it was a business decision and they basically just said, like we don't sell enough, we're're not going to keep these ones on. And then they've also drawn criticism on the recent focus on contemporary line, you know, which some people say lacks depth, and the more critical issues, for, like you know, the characters' backstories and that sort of thing. But they're supposed to be different though, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're set aside, but you don't always have to learn something from a doll.
Speaker 1:It can just be fun. Well, I found this quote that I wrote down because I thought you would really like it. No, but it's, it didn't. This is actually the opposite sort of what you were just saying. Oh whoops, but you say it other times, so it's okay. So my Little Pony writer Friendship is magic, her name's Lauren.
Speaker 2:Faust. Oh, writer, I thought you said writer like R-I-D-E-R. I was like, wait, huh, it's like, what depths of the internet are you on? Okay, w-r-i-t-e-r.
Speaker 1:Writer. Okay, it's funny you said that because every time I use talk to text and I say writer, it comes through as writer. So I'll'll be like I need to hire that writer. And then I'll look at it's like I need to hire that writer and I'm like what is happening? What's?
Speaker 2:because our language makes no sense the w silent and it's weird and it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1:Well, this anyway, my little pony writer with a W Okay, there we go Named Lauren Faust, and she had a Twitter post that went viral where she was talking about them discontinuing these characters, and her quote is that American Girl was once radically positive for girls before it was homogenized for money.
Speaker 2:Well, I get that point too. I mean, I get it yeah.
Speaker 1:Because that's not how they started.
Speaker 2:They started off with a bigger mission in mind, but then the ching, ching, ching money came along, yeah, so I see what she's saying yeah, that's kind of wait what is she. What does that mean? She writes for my little pony, it's a toy well, no, there's, there's a series.
Speaker 1:My Little Pony, friendship is Magic.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, I'm like wait, you might have seen it on Netflix.
Speaker 1:No girl, See, I don't, my brother, you might have seen it on Netflix. You know, before Netflix like cracked down yeah. We would just use my brother-in-law's password and he like doesn't live by us or anything, so he would like Netflix and it would be like recommended for you, my Little Pony. Friendship is magic. And he's like this single guy. He's like what is this? Because we were watching it. Anyway, you know, there is a whole genre of people, the bronies yes, yeah, they're really.
Speaker 1:I know I'm just looking at that. I'd be going down some rabbit holes sometimes, y'all.
Speaker 2:I really do, I know.
Speaker 1:Anyway, let's move on. Okay, another controversy, but where you and I will probably side with the company is has to do with LGBTQ plus rights. So they came out with a book I don't have the year on here, that's's weird, or maybe I have it over here. I want to say it was 2017, but it might have been. It's probably later than that, maybe 2021, 2022 called body image how to love yourself, live life to the fullest and celebrate all kinds of bodies. And the book faced intense backlash, um, for its inclusion of a transgender pride flag and mentions of they, them pronouns and gender affirming care. So they talk about that in the pages. It's not like all about that but that was like what's included because it has to do with body image.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, so, um, people have especially the people who don't like it have criticized two pages titled gender joy, which starts by saying messages about how bodies should look are different depending on a person's gender. Luckily, it's not your job to look the way people expect. It's your job to be you.
Speaker 2:I love that and what is the problem with that? Nothing, listen, I'm not gonna get all too in the weeds here because I can't do that, but whatever these people who got problems, whatever you think, believe, etc. Et cetera et cetera. Whether you like it or not, human beings that are transgender, exist, correct, and, and whether you acknowledge that or not, they're real.
Speaker 1:They are there and like and here. Yes, they are. Yes, they're living in the world.
Speaker 2:Oh no, let's not see it written down. Well, that's fine, but guess what? They still exist. Yeah, but still, it's still a thing, Right, I mean it's I just whatever they had. That because correct, all bodies and all humans need to be recognized, and thankfully we are living in a time where there is so much good language for things that we didn't have before. Now is there a good acceptance? Not yet, but we're climbing there, yeah, but anyway. Well, good for them for doing that.
Speaker 1:So what happened with that it's still on shelves and they're still selling it, the book it's the first from American Girl to explicitly address gender identity Good. I like that. So, yeah, it's still, it's around, you can get it. Just some people don't like it.
Speaker 2:Well, get over it Period. I don't like a lot of stuff either, but you know what you just don't buy it.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't like dogs, but they still exist. They do. There's so many of them especially at my house.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, dogs are not equal to humans. I was just being an idiot, oh I forgot to tell you.
Speaker 1:Karen stopped by to bring me that backdrop and she brought her dog, oh.
Speaker 2:Her dog.
Speaker 1:Milo. He looks so much like my dog. It's not funny. I know it was weird. It is they. They're the same kind of dog but, as far as we know, not from the same line. Oh, speaking of dogs, did we ever show you pictures of?
Speaker 2:my sister's dogs?
Speaker 1:No, and I was re-listening to that episode and I was like damn it, they never showed me the pictures.
Speaker 2:I will later.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I saved the most interesting controversy for the end. Oh, I can't wait, mainly because I was like, hmm, is it because they don't have boys?
Speaker 2:No, but there actually is a boy doll now, which we'll get into February 2017, the company announced that they were changing the certain dolls' bodies not all the dolls to incorporate permanently stitched panties. These are the things we care about America.
Speaker 1:Public reaction to the change was overwhelmingly negative. This is hilarious, as fans of the franchise complained that it stifles customization and it devalues a well-established brand. There's a quote someone said it reduces them from heirloom quality to be passed down for generations to low quality retail Because they got drawers on. I guess so. So they actually reversed their. I guess so. So they actually reversed their decision later that year and the customers who had already bought a doll with permanent underwear were eligible for an exchange to have the dolls retrofitted with conventional torsos. This is a big deal y'all.
Speaker 2:These are the things we care about.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Well, I mean Ken doll has had his, he's had undies forever, but not barbie not barbie patriarchy I mean, um, I don't want to get too in the weeds on it, but like, don't you just cover it up with clothes anyway? What's the difference? That's so weird, I don't.
Speaker 2:Why did we, why did they even feel like that was needed, like why did they even?
Speaker 1:want to do the underwear in the first place, let's envision the meeting that this may have happened at.
Speaker 2:I'm guessing it was probably a man who had the problem to begin with. I'm sorry, I don't know. Maybe it wasn't. It was probably Frank Frank. Probably was Frank Frank.
Speaker 1:It's his fault.
Speaker 2:He might raise his hand at me and be like hello everyone.
Speaker 1:I'm Frank, frank Talking of our development.
Speaker 2:The next line of dolls. I really think we need some permanent stitched panties and he probably needs to wear panties.
Speaker 1:He probably did honestly, oh why like we?
Speaker 2:why that's so weird and stupid and dumb and like and for people to have like the biggest reaction to be like you're reducing the value of this.
Speaker 1:What I'm on underwear? I don't know, I guess because you can customize everything else, all the clothes, but do you customize their panties? Well, like you can decide what clothes to put on them and stuff.
Speaker 2:But if it's permanent underwear, then you can't.
Speaker 1:It's just part of the doll.
Speaker 2:But like you don't customize the underwear, right, they just wear them. They don't like I mean, I guess.
Speaker 1:Because that's weird.
Speaker 2:Now, if you customize panties for a doll, then I don't.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think different outfits come with little bloomers or whatever that you can put on them.
Speaker 2:Oh, like period appropriate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not so Like outfit, like time period. Well, maybe I don't know, they got everything else.
Speaker 2:They did have a doll, though. That had something to do with their period, didn't they?
Speaker 1:I think you're thinking of they have a book, okay. That's about girls' bodies. I don't have it written down here, but my girls did read it and it was super helpful.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I talked about things like period. That's what I'm thinking of.
Speaker 1:And it was like released by American Girl but wasn't like connected to a doll. Okay, if that makes sense, yep, so just a tidbits. Um, so, the one I was talking about before, uh, the indigenous doll from the nez pierce tribe. Her name was kaya and it took five years to develop her um and she was created with special permission from the nez pierce tribe who worked with the author, janet shaw, probably not from the tribe, but maybe you don't know, but maybe who knows?
Speaker 1:to make sure kaya's story was told in accurate and respectful way, and an example of this is kaya, unlike other dolls, does not show her front teeth, because this is considered a sign of aggression in Nez Perce culture. Yeah, so she's the only one to date that doesn't have those showing front teeth. In 2019, american Girl launched the Collector Dolls series, and they are in a partnership with Swarovski. I can never say that.
Speaker 2:Swarovski Crystals.
Speaker 1:And they had three collector dolls but like I saw, one was like over five grand.
Speaker 2:Like these are really expensive dolls they got Swarovski Crystals in their eyes or something A thousand or more. In their eyes On each doll no we're on a doll.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Oh they're. Oh sorry, they're in a, they're on the gown. Oh, I should have said the panties I'm like.
Speaker 2:Oh, the purpose, I don't know I'm trying to think of like a swarvarsky, whatever. However you say it, american girl doll, I guess she made of the crystals I guess it's just her outfit. I immediately thought of the crystals. I guess it's just her outfit. I immediately thought of her eyes. Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's just her gown. Sorry, just her gowns. And then, of course, you knew that this was going to happen in 2023. I'm surprised it took this long. American released three Disney Princess dolls oh, of course, jasmine, belle and Rapunzel and then this year, in 2024, they released three more Cinderella, tiana and Ariel. Okay, why it took till now I don't know, but hey, I'm sure they're very cute. In 2017, american Girl introduced Logan Everett, which is the first and only boy doll Only one. He's in a band. He's in a band.
Speaker 2:He's in a band, let's go.
Speaker 1:I think he's a drummer, and I thought I had read that in one source, but then when I went back to confirm it I couldn't find it. But he's in a band um, you can, cuss, do like custom dolls that are boys. Okay, so he's just the only named boy doll, but you can make a doll that's a boy or um, presenting as a boy, if you want to, yeah, male presenting um, and I found out.
Speaker 1:do you know what the worst thing is that you can do to your doll? To like, make it get ruined, leave it in the sun? That's a pretty bad one. Get her wet? Oh yes, but they're plastic. Water makes her eyes rust, what? And her cotton body mold creepy and it wreaks havoc on her lovely hair. So now you know, okay, well, don't do it, don't put them in the water. Guys, don't do it. And that is it.
Speaker 2:That's all I have.
Speaker 1:That's everything. I'm kind of mad at myself because you brought up that book about the body and the periods and I literally have that in my house. Maybe we'll just do one on that or something. Yeah, Because it was really good. I read it first. Not that I'm like one of these like oh, what are they going to tell my kid, but more like oh, what are they going to tell my kids.
Speaker 2:So if they ask me, yeah, I'm like prepared Well, and you want to know what I mean. I think you should know what information is being presented to your kid. True, true, you wish someone?
Speaker 1:gave me this book, oh girl, when I was younger, because it was like honest, but you could read it by yourself and like process what was being said and presented to you about your body, and I remember it talks about things like body odor, like all sorts of stuff that like is nothing to be, ashamed of. But if you don't understand how all this works, you know it's just anyway, so maybe we'll bring that up later. But that was American Girl.
Speaker 2:We did it American Girl and we talked about some weird stuff on the way as we always do, as we always do, but I think that's okay.
Speaker 1:That's what this podcast is all about. We do, and maybe the YouTube will be amazing If it's not on YouTube. You know, something went wrong y'all, or we were like Dani wiggled too much, I feel like though I was like I don't watch our YouTube videos.
Speaker 2:I watch like five seconds. I was like, oh no, but I feel like I wiggle a lot. That's okay. Katie is so good about being professional and stationary. Have you noticed, though, I'm a fidgeter with my fingers. No, because you can't see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh see. But I think that's a learned adaptation, because as a kid I used to do that too, like I would look perfectly still, but my wiggles were places. People couldn't see them.
Speaker 2:Isn't that interesting.
Speaker 1:Even now on like Zoom calls, I'll be like out of the frame, like all sorts of movement, but all you see is the stillness good job to learned behavior I don't know if it's good or not, I know.
Speaker 2:Is that good or bad? I don't know. I just wiggle all over. Yeah, I just it's just how it goes, but I feel like there's probably a middle zone that, yeah, you and I I need to move a little more.
Speaker 1:You need to move a little less. Yeah, yeah, that's okay. Well, um, I did not come up with a witty ending. Do you have one until next?
Speaker 2:time crap.
Speaker 1:No, I got nothing.
Speaker 2:Well, until next time um read a book, oh no no, maybe we we should only have witty endings if we are like really have one that's true. We shouldn't, we shouldn't, we should not pressure ourselves to be witty because, I feel like our wittiest moments happen generically when we plan right.
Speaker 1:The jokes don't land or or, like sometimes when I'm writing stuff out, it will come to me organically.
Speaker 2:Well, that's generically. Yeah, oh, I meant organically.
Speaker 1:That's what I know our generic jokes oh, I don't know, but hey, listeners, if you have a witty ending for this one, send it to us. Yeah, I'd love to hear what they are. Maybe we'll do a little reel based on what people send us and see what we like. So thanks again for tuning in. We'll have some more really fun holiday content for you next week. And if you're a patron, hop on over to the After Show and we will see you there.
Speaker 2:Bye everybody, it's been a while.
