.png)
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between.
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Slasher Film Nostalgia: A Spooky Superfan Lookback
Are you afraid of things that go "slash" in the night?
What's your favorite scary movie?
If a masked, chainsaw-wielding villain makes you spill your popcorn, you might be a Xennial. And we are too.
Join us for a nostalgic journey into the eerie and iconic world of 80s and 90s slasher films with our special guest, Cody Shealy. He's a slasher superfan AND a Ripperologist.
Join us for some Halloween fun!
Leave us a glowing review wherever you listen to podcasts, and connect with Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast at all the places below:
Patreon
TikTok
Instagram
Facebook
Email us at generationinbetweenpodcast@gmail.com
Request an episode topic here
Were your dreams of being a camp counselor tainted by the murders of Jason Voorhees. Were you ever scared to fall asleep at night because of a man named Freddy? If you ever spent Halloween night peeking around each corner to make sure Michael Myers wasn't lurking nearby, you might be a Xeniel. And you might also be a fan of 80s and 90s slasher films. Hey everyone, I'm Dani and I'm Katie, and you're listening to Generation In Between, a Xenial podcast where we revisit, remember and sometimes relearn all kinds of things from our 80s childhoods and 90s teen and young adulthoods. And today, everyone, we have our final spooky season super fan guest, which I think is going to actually air on Halloween Day. So that's super awesome. And it is our very own final girl, if you will. It is my friend, Cody Shealy. Welcome, Cody.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you a little bit about Cody. So Cody is like, he's got so many amazing talents. He is a special effects makeup artist. He's a visual effects artist. He is a ripperologist, which Katie is pumped about oh man, so excited. He's also a voiceover actor. He's a scare actor, which is how I know him, also with his makeup skills.
Speaker 1:And he's also a short film actor and creator, so he's a huge horror fan. He makes amazingly cool creations with his um 3d printing abilities and he's just generally an awesome person. You guys, he's super nice and awesome. Um, I actually met Cody. Okay, cody, remind me of the math. Was this two years ago or three years ago?
Speaker 2:Um, but scream, land I. According to Facebook, I think it's two years ago.
Speaker 1:That's wild. Okay, so I met Cody. Um, we worked on a project of our friend OP Garza's. Um, we did this little event called scream land and and it was. Whenever people ask me to explain it, I have a hard time without going into like a paragraph, but basically it was like an immersive dark art exhibit slash haunt, slash improv event and Cody was the special effects makeup artist and made us look gory and crazy and amazing, and he also had a few nights where he was acting as well. So that's where we met and it was six weeks of so much fun. It was probably one of the funnest spooky season things I've done. And also, by the time y'all hear this, the event will already be over, but Cody's also doing some stuff with our friend OP again this weekend. Yep, yeah, they're doing a haunt, what's it called?
Speaker 2:I believe it's Dark Garden or Dark Harvest. I think it's Dark Garden. I'm pretty sure Dark Harvest might be another haunt, but it is Dark Garden over at Echo Verde in Melbourne.
Speaker 1:Yes, so that's super awesome. I'm so sad that I could not participate. I have prior commitments already by the time I found out about it.
Speaker 2:I'm so sad.
Speaker 1:I know, but I can't. I'm going to try really hard to get over there tomorrow night, so hopefully I can at least attend for a little while, but anyways. So that's that's how I know Cody, and this is Katie's first introduction to him. But you guys share something, don't you? Yeah, so well, just met Cody when we got online right now, other than emails back and forth organizing the episode, yeah. But I know a lot about him Because not only is he an 80s, 90s, sl slasher film super fan, he's also a true crime fan listeners, just like me. So today he isn't going to only be talking to us about these films, but also some of their connections to the real life cases which you know. I am here for that and I am terrified.
Speaker 1:yes, I like scary when it's fake. I don't like scary when it's real life, but but, but, but we know love, lots of people love it and we are here for fandoms. Like we are here for fandoms I was just saying the other day we just had on another guest this week that is not aired yet, but hopefully by the time y'all hear this at well, um, we had a tales from the Crip super fan on and I, yeah, it was fun and I was like man. You know, this is one of the funnest parts of having a podcast is getting people to come in and talk about things that they like, love so much, that are so out there and fun and crazy and cool, and it's just, isn't it fun?
Speaker 2:I don't know, it's really fun.
Speaker 1:And you learn a lot that way. I mean, we learn a lot for the episodes that we research. No-transcript knows a ton about things like we have today. It's like a bonus because we get to learn even more from someone who's passionate about something else. And you know what else has happened which has been amazing and I can't wait to see. I know this is probably going to happen with this episode too. Several of our super fan episodes listeners have told us it has like made them go and like watch a show or whatever. Like Troy, my own spouse, because he listened to that Stephen King super fan episode, he's like it, like reignited he was, was like I need to go find all the og, like stephen king books. So he's been on this hunt now like finding him. And now he's like reading and like he is not a reader. But oh my gosh, he's been obsessed because and it made you go out and get a- cd, so I had never read a stephen king book before I came wow
Speaker 1:yeah, I came to like spooky, scary, horror as an adult. So Stephen King's most popular books, right, were popular when I was a kid, young adult. So I literally just picked up my first Stephen King book from the library after we recorded that episode and I'm still reading it because they're all very long. Yes, he is so deep though, but it's great and so, same thing, that episode inspired me. I was like you know what? I have literally never read a Stephen King book, cover to cover. I've seen some of the movies and miniseries and know the because I am a person living in America. I know the premise of a lot of these, but I haven't actually read the words that he wrote. So there you go. Inspired me, okay. But before we dig into like the eighties, nineties, slasher, true crime topic that we're going to do, when Katie read your bio, cody, and she saw you were a Ripperologist, she was so excited because she wants to ask you a few questions. So let's do that now, okay.
Speaker 1:To tame your excitement.
Speaker 2:Yes, we won't get too in the weeds listeners.
Speaker 1:Um, we'll keep. Keep it to a couple minutes.
Speaker 2:I will circle back to Ripper during this whole thing as well, don't worry. Okay, cool.
Speaker 1:Well then, why don't you, for now, just tell us what is a Ripperologist? For those that are like, what the heck is that supposed to mean?
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, of the word. A ripperologist is someone who studies the uh jack the ripper uh case. Um, that can extend beyond just, you know, the canonical five murders and uh, extend into, uh, what is known as the white chapel murders. Uh, which were the 11 murders that happened in white chapel during that period of time? Um, only five of those victims are directly linked to the serial killer known as Jack the Ripper, but there is some contention about how many and which ones might also be. But, yeah, it's just someone who studies that very specific period of time in a one square mile radius of London.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's a very specific thing to know a lot about. But I know for true crime folks the Jack the Ripper stuff is one of the most fascinating cases because it's unsolved and at this point you know it's been a really long time ago.
Speaker 2:It's not going to be solved Like that's not happening.
Speaker 1:And so there's obviously a lot of theories and things like that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, go on, cody oh, I was just going to say the um. For a lot of people in the true crime community, this is also like their first true crime case as well, because it's so well known. It's so in sort of brain and pop culture and movies, comic books, tvs like um I just heard someone describe it not too long ago of um jack the ripper happened 136 years ago. Uh, the anniversary for mary kelly's death is actually coming up on the 9th of november. Um, it'll be 136 years, um so, but they happened so long ago and they're so far removed from everything that it's become mythology at this point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's almost like it didn't happen, even though it did, but it kind of feels in that sort of vein.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, well, cool. Well, we can loop back to whatever you've got from that in your notes when we get there. But listeners, that's what that means, yeah, and why I'm excited about it.
Speaker 2:Awesome, well, listeners that's what that means and why.
Speaker 1:I'm excited about it. Awesome, um, well, so I think let's go. Let's go. What kind of questions do we have for Cody today? Danny, all right, so let's start like we did with Ripperologist. I said slasher film in the beginning, but we know we have to. Sometimes not everybody knows what everything is. So, cody, for those of our listeners out there cause we do have a lot of younger listeners so they aren't familiar with all our lingo For those who may not be familiar with the term slasher film, can you give us a definition like what it is, who created it, what are some examples, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2:Right. So this is a long answer that I took a lot of notes on. I love that.
Speaker 1:We love long. I did a lot of research.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes. So, just in the simplest terms, a slasher film is boiling down to its bare bones A film in the horror genre that features an antagonist that uses a slashing weapon to kill victims, which?
Speaker 2:is why commonly, like, jason has a machete, freddie has the finger knives, michael uses a kitchen knife, et cetera, et cetera. That has, of course, been broadened. Now slashers can use hammers, guns, it doesn't really matter. More specifically, nowadays a slasher refers to a sort of series of tropes within the genre. You're sticking with the killer's POV for quite a bit of it. Gruesome kills, of course. This is also where you get like your, your horror movie tropes of the final girl, of, you know, the jock the cheerleader, so on and so forth. As for, like, who created it, uh, no one actually knows who coined slasher film. Right like, it can be traced to a couple of like magazines and publications throughout the years, but there's no one direct. This person said it, and there it is. Um, funnily enough actually, though, uh, slasher uh harkens back to true crime, though. Um, that is, uh a sort of media moniker for serial murderers and spree killers. Um, during the 60s and 70s, they were often referred to as slashers did you know that?
Speaker 1:I did not know that, katie, I did not know that. Interesting Cool. So no matter how they did it like let's say it was strangulation but if it was a spree or a serial killer, they might have been referred to as a slasher killer or not really no, not no In the true crime sense.
Speaker 2:the slasher is much more specific in knife wounds, basically.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Got it.
Speaker 1:That was a really specific in okay knife wounds. Basically got it okay got it.
Speaker 2:That wasn't really good. Yeah, yeah, sorry, go ahead, I cut you off. You're fine. You're fine, uh, for for the genre as a whole it has. It was originally just stuck to the, the roots of uh knife of or bladed weapon of some kind, and has since expanded out into, like the terror, fire films or slasher films, despite art not only using bladed weapons and so on and so forth, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So it's now. It's kind of just like a formula. It doesn't have to be a specific weapon, right?
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. It's more about the sequence of events that happens and the way they're shot.
Speaker 1:Got it. Okay, that's it. I don't think I really knew truly what the actual definition of it was and, honestly, it seems so obvious. I never really thought about how these big iconic killers from the movies that were mentioned did kill by slashing, right, it's like so obvious when you say it, but it's like, oh yeah, freddy had sharp fingers and then there was like a machete involved and there was a knife. Like they use these different ways of, yeah, killing that were stabbing. Essentially, yeah, we're slicing. Yeah, there you go. Sometimes the things that are okay, so okay, great.
Speaker 1:Now everybody out there knows what that means. So, cody, we know you're a super fan. We know you're a horror super fan. When did you become a slasher film fan? Specifically like we want to know how old you were? What are your memories associated with the first slasher film you saw? All of that we want to know all right.
Speaker 2:So um I I came somewhat late to the genre I used. Uh, growing up I was like really scared of like horror films, gremlins like traumatized me growing up but uh, I think I was around like 14 or so and, uh, my, my girlfriend at the time, uh brought over jason x, which is the one he goes to space, uh, and that is the first slasher film that I like officially watched.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's so fun. It is. Jason x is fun. Uh, throw out any notion that it's a horror movie. You're gonna have a great time with it. It's so ridiculous and so fun, uh. But yeah, it's, that's the. That's the one that I first watched and immediately went. I need to watch all of this series of movies and I think, like the next day or the weekend, I ended up going to the library and grabbing a Friday part one, two, three, et cetera, et cetera, and and going through all of the films and just loving that whole series.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. So that was the film, like you can remember. Specifically, that was it.
Speaker 2:That was your turning point. That's what got me into fx makeup actually that's what got me in there.
Speaker 1:That's so cool too. I love that, though, because you know, sometimes, when you think about things you love, like I can't remember when I fell in love with whatever, xyz. But I love it when an origin story you can pinpoint, like nope, it was that movie. Right there I said I love this, I want to do this, like that's amazing. Yeah, have you ever seen Jason X Katie? No but I mean, it sounds amazing.
Speaker 2:I know I need to watch it.
Speaker 1:Inspired and also that you I think that's an interesting origin story too, because you didn't watch that series in the way that most people would think you watched, maybe like the outlier first, yeah, and then that's what inspired you to go to oh yeah the the classic way that people would watch it right, which is really cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah it. Jason x is not, uh, was not well loved. It has sort of become cults, you know. Now, because it's it's absurd, like again, I highly recommend it. Like get some beers or whatever your favorite drink is, sit down with snacks and just watch it and have a great time, because it's hilarious I'm definitely going to.
Speaker 1:I did not. I honestly did not even know there was a jason in space. Did? It, I think I think I've seen all the friday the 13th movies, but not jason. I liked. I liked Freddy, the best out of all the creepies, even though he terrified me to death. But that's a whole nother. That's another day. Anyways, all right. So next question for you, cody and this I know we'll have a long answer, because there's no simple answer here what is it about the slasher films that makes you such a super fan?
Speaker 2:uh, so it's actually funny. You said that there's gonna be. There's actually a very simple answer for this, for me. What? Yeah, this one has the easy answer. Uh, it's.
Speaker 2:It's quite literally like, on the one hand, because I'm an fx guy, so the kills and the gore and like the effects work in it can alleviate a lot of, like, any negatives you can say about those kind of films you can immediately go, yeah, but the kills were amazing, like the practical effects or the visual effects or whatever were amazing. Like, ignore the story, forget that. And the other thing is like having just an iconic kind of villain. You know, one that you look at and you immediately recognize it. Um, I brought him up earlier, but, uh, I did say, like art, the clown is a perfect example of this nowadays.
Speaker 2:Um, with the terrifier films, like he is a freddy krueger level icon in 2024, which is insane, yeah, and, and so that's, I think, just a good indicator of you know, if you have a lasting villain and you have if your slasher movie makes people feel a certain way of any, any sort sort of way, they're scared or giddy or whatever, right, then I think you have a good formula there yeah, and I like that you mentioned like the effects, because that's so true, because a lot of slasher films the script sucks like a lot of them, not all of them, not all of them.
Speaker 1:I'm going to clarify because I love me some scream, like I love scream scream is in its own yeah ballpark for real, um, and actually, guys, when we started we're on zoom with cody.
Speaker 1:We should have said that we were on zoom with cody and his his video is not working. We're on Zoom with Cody. We should have said that we were on Zoom with Cody and his video is not working. So we're just talking to an orange box that has the letter C, but he was like when we came on. He's like my webcam's not working, but I have on a ghost face mask right now and I was like dang, but don't worry, we'll have a picture of it on our socials. He said he would take a picture. And also, let me just call attention to the fact for Cody and our listeners, katie's studio praise God is getting a new AC unit right now and there are drills and hammering. I don't know how much is going to be picked up.
Speaker 2:Probably not much, because remember the day they were doing the roof right above us.
Speaker 1:Cody, they were literally like 10 people hammering and it didn't get picked up. So these mics are pretty good, but if you do, hear anything.
Speaker 2:I'll hear anything.
Speaker 1:Good and also Zoom has gotten better. I've noticed that I remember when the onset of the pandemic COVID and everything went to Zoom, my work calls, everyone could hear, like my kid crinkling a wrapper in the next room and my dogs barking and all of that. And now my dogs can be literally next to me barking and I'm like I'm so sorry. And they're like, oh, I don't hear it Because Zoom's technology has gotten really good at knowing what to filter out. So anyway, but if you do hear something that sounds like we are being murdered in a slasher film with some sort of tool, we're not, we're okay, we're not we're not living our own slasher film currently, not currently, hopefully never, because we already decided immersive podcast experience, that's
Speaker 1:yeah, I love it. We already decided when we were talking I don't remember now what we were talking about when we were talking about it sometime this month um, that I would never be a final girl. I would be one of the first to die. Yeah, we were talking about um hunt and I. Final girl material. You are, and so is Cody. I would be done instantly. I I, my name would barely be in the credits. So anyway, um, yeah, I. So back to the effects. So, okay, we're about to talk to you about some of your favorite films, but I'm going to ask you a question that we didn't like show you ahead of time, cause I just am curious.
Speaker 2:Fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't get nervous From a special effects standpoint, and then we'll go into just your favorite franchises in general. Which slasher film franchise from back in the day do you think had the best, most entertaining effects? You can think about it for a second.
Speaker 2:Could you repeat that you were kind of cutting out. I couldn't.
Speaker 1:Oh no, oh no.
Speaker 2:It's my internet. It's my internet, okay.
Speaker 1:So, thinking back to the 80s and 90s slasher films, what franchise slasher franchise do you think had the best effects? That were the most entertaining, I guess.
Speaker 2:Okay, so just like broad term effects, not not the kills necessarily, or anything like that, but just whatever you want to, whatever qualifications you would like to put on them.
Speaker 2:I want to throw it as like a toss up between, like the nightmare franchise and like the first wish master. I think are both Okay. Really, any of those like semi supernatural ones had some really cool effects in them. That like wishmaster was really guilty of this in the first. I think the opening I don't know five, 10 minutes of the film.
Speaker 2:There are so many like practical and even digital effects. As digital effects you could be in that you know eighties, nineties era, but some digital effects there's like 30 of them in this opening shot and you watch it and you think about like all the work that went into that and you went. You just think like why, why did you do that? Like what, that guy's on screen for 10 seconds but he's a giant snake now what are we doing? That movie rules, though. And then Nightmare for that same kind of like just overly elaborate effect shots a little more deliberate in Nightmare but like Dream Warrior has some fantastic visuals and fantastic practical and digital effects work and stuff like that. So I think both of those are probably up there.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, I know, on Friday, the 13th series I can't remember which movies it was, but where the girl is like going all over the ceiling and stuff, like he's killing her and she's like, um, she's like with her boyfriend and she goes uh nightmare on elm street, the first one, that is, tina's death that's it.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, that's nightmare on elm street. That's nightmare on elm street, yes, I remember that. And then, like, this is what I'm thinking in my brain. And then there's one scene and it's the nightmare on elm street, I think with johnny depp in it, and he comes up through the bed, and that scene lives forever in my memory of fear that one's great, that one's great yeah, you know how they did those?
Speaker 2:no, how uh, it's a rotating set, so the whole room rotates on its on its, uh, on its axis. Uh, tina's one is a combination of a rotating set and also just wire work. Basically that's cool. And then the johnny depp one is. The set starts out on normal, you know, flat earth. Basically he gets drug into the bed and then that set rotates and the blood pours out of the bed. If you watch the scene, actually you can start seeing the blood tilting towards one side. It's because the roof got so heavy that the rig started to tilt on its own, but they could only do the one shot.
Speaker 1:Wow, oh, so they did it in one shot. That's it that's all they had wow, dang, no pressure special effects people. Oh yeah, get this right. That's amazing, I know, that's so cool, I know. All right, you want to ask some questions, sure, well, okay, so now maybe we're at the long one now we are long answer, so we've touched on some of these already, but maybe a little more in depth.
Speaker 1:Your favorite 80s and 90s slasher films and franchises and some of them, of course, carry on to this very day, and then also, once we get to the end of that, if you have any that you don't like as well. Um, we'd love to hear about that and and why you feel that way so favorite, uh, like franchises.
Speaker 2:Um, obviously, friday the 13th, um, that one should be obvious by this point, of course, and also dream, uh, both of those probably extremely obvious um, and I just love both of them. Um, again, friday 13th, because that, just that launched my interest into, you know, the slasher genre and horror movies and FX work. And then Scream, like you were saying earlier, the writing is so good in Scream and I contend that there has never been a bad Scream movie, like, if you weigh the Scream films, all six of them, against any other slasher franchise, the, the worst scream movie probably outdoes the best of that franchise as to in terms of writing, character and all that stuff. Um, so I think it's probably one of the most consistent slasher franchises out there, uh, and just a joy to watch every time. Least favorite um, it's not the franchise that's my least favorite, it's pretty much just like I'm gonna say like the first half of the franchise is halloween oh yeah, I don't like halloween either.
Speaker 2:It's not my jam so I no shade to anyone who likes it. I completely understand why people like, especially the first, that first halloween. I didn't like it cause it was very it's very slow paced, um, and doesn't have as much going on in the way of slashing in it. Um, it is visually gorgeous, it's. It's great. That score is amazing. Uh, of the Halloween films, I do like the recent ones that came out the um, the Blumhouse trilogy I did actually really like, but yeah, halloween's never been my thing. That and like I think Leprechaun has also been One that I'm like. The first one I like. I like the first one and I like the recall that they did Not too long ago and that's oh, and Leprechaun and the Hood, both of those are fantastic actually, I forgot about that one.
Speaker 1:I saw that one in the movie theater, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Oh, speaking of, Okay, you're going to love this story, cody. Okay, I love Scream and I was at like the best age when Scream came out, because I was in high school and I saw the original in the theater, me too. I saw the original in the theater, me too, and it was just so different, right it was, I don't know. I just it was funny, it was smart, it was unexpected and I mean, come on, matthew Lillard is the best. I love him beyond, and they had so many like hot, like super popular stars at the time, like Neve Campbell, and Drew Barrymore was in the very beginning and like it was so great.
Speaker 1:But here's my story. It has to do with scream too. This was. This will forever live in my memory. So, um, we went on opening night, me and all my high school friends. One of my friends at the time was a year or two older than me and he was the, and Cody works in a movie theater, so he'll appreciate this. He was the manager at the time of our one of our local movie theaters. So what he did in that open this would never happen nowadays. What he did in that opening scene of screen two, where they're in the theater watching the movie and then the girl dies.
Speaker 1:He dressed up in a ghost face costume and right at the moment where jada pinka gets stabbed, he came running down the aisle that rules and the funniest thing and we didn't know, he didn't tell us so, but the funniest thing I had this big dude next to me, like I mean he was probably, he was probably six, four, I didn't know him, but we were. He was like on the end. He came with friends, they came late, so he, they had to sit separate. He sat on the end seat, big guy older than me, you know. Anyway, he sits there.
Speaker 1:My friend comes darting down this man screamed like a baby girl, okay, and he was like oh my God, he was clinging to me. This man screamed like a baby girl and he was like oh my God, he was clinging to me. This man was there.
Speaker 2:That's great. I actually, funnily enough, I did a similar thing when Scream 6 came out at our theater, because we do employee screenings in the middle of the night. You know just the employees watching it before anyone else does screenings in the middle of the night. You know just the employees watching it before anyone else does. Um, so I oftentimes will go dressed up, uh, relevant to whatever film's coming out, if I can manage it. So I put together a scream six costume with the cracked mask and everything that the aged mask and I stood at the end of the hall of our largest theater it's this long hallway, long dark hallway walking in and I just stood there, perfectly still, and when certain employees would come by, I would, you know, lunge at them and stuff like that. It was fantastic. Oh, that's great.
Speaker 1:When it's funny. You guys said this about Scream 6, because, same thing, I think I saw the. I definitely saw the first one in theaters and then I remember standing outside to get a ticket for the second one, like in the big line opening night or something. And then I kind of like lost track of the Scream movies for a little bit in college and then being out of college and having kids and stuff. But last when Scream 6 came out, my daughter one of them was going through a bad breakup. That's very weak.
Speaker 1:So her and one of her girlfriends wanted to go see it and I was like man, I always liked the Scream movies, so I'll go. So I missed three, four and five, unless maybe I've seen parts of them accidentally, but never like deliberately have watched them. And I went and I was like, yeah, still holds up, I loved it. And but what's funny is, to your point, there were a lot of ghost face people in the audience, yeah, and I did have that moment where I was like should that be allowed? I know, because, like it may be, one of them is trying to like pull something off, but also they're all just. I mean, obviously nothing happened to us, they were all just fans, yeah, but it did feel weird to be like surrounded by people where you couldn't see their faces and couldn't see their faces, and so I'm trying to watch the movie, but I'm there literally with my children.
Speaker 1:So my maternal instinct, my eyes, are like darting around every time someone's killed in the film. You know, like looking at the exits, like how do we get out? I mean, obviously we were totally fine, but it was so good and so it made me like I just need to like sit down and go through them all and go through them all or spend a week like watching one a day or something, just to go back through them, because I always have loved them. Troy, it was funny because we went oh God, I don't remember, maybe this was last Halloween. He's like I don't know if I've ever seen the original Scream and I was like what, and so it was so much fun watching it with somebody who had never seen it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It was Especially never seen it and yeah, it was especially cause, like I know what's coming and he's like what, what? Like it's just. It's so much fun experiencing that for the first time with another person. Like my, my kids are not into scary stuff. Well, cooper will watch some, but I mean he's hit or miss. Caden cannot handle. He does not like scary stuff and it's hilarious because his girlfriend, who happens to be Katie's daughter, which their business is now on our podcast she wanted to watch Halloween and so he watched it and I was like, wow, look what you do for girls, you like. Anyway, I feel like the scary movie and I feel like it's this way still with, with the children, the young folks which actually we didn't talk to cody about, where he sits in this I mean well yeah, um is, I remember being scared of those movies but be like that being a perk of them watching it with the person I liked.
Speaker 1:You know you get that adrenaline boost and it's like, oh, I'm scared, you know, and I think it still holds up. Watching my own kids who are teens my son too and his girlfriend it's like we're gonna watch something really scary or I forget what they oh, they were watching the a quiet place series recently, the ones that are out, and they were just saying how terrifying they were and but as a couple, it's like a thing, yeah, to do yeah, it's really cute.
Speaker 2:It is cute anyways, yeah ask cody about?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, I already know the answer to this, but you don't. So, cody, we have to ask you, and we ask most of our guests. Sometimes we forget, um, so you're not a zennial right no, no, I'm not you were born in what year?
Speaker 2:95 okay. Yeah, so he's straight up millennial right, I'm the end of millennial, yeah.
Speaker 1:Very, very end, very end. But this makes me happy, though, when there are younger people who still like love the things from like our time, like God that is sounding so old, our time Like we're so 95. But I love it because he probably knows way more about our generation's horror stuff than we ever will. Absolutely yeah, so I love that. Um, do you think let me ask you this do you think that the horror genre has gotten better since the 80s and 90s, or do you think it's gone on the downward slope?
Speaker 2:I. So I just watched smile 2 that just came out, um, just I think last week or so, and I can sincerely tell you that, um, I think it's gotten better. I think it's gotten better, I think it's gotten more consistent. Okay, we still have you know, we still get our. You know, this movie is fun, not scary Like Megan. That that came out I think last year wasn't necessarily scary, but God, it's a fun movie, it's a fun time to watch.
Speaker 2:But as far as, like, if you want straight horror, like just that genre, but as far as like if you want straight horror, like just that genre, I think we're doing great, we're in great hands with like the newest, I guess, generation of directors and everything like that. But the other thing, of course, the important thing to remember with horror, like a lot of film genres anyways, it changes and evolves as it goes on and a lot of horror is reflection of today's society, of today's society. I know last year, or earlier this year I should say, we got films like the first omen and immaculate, which have to do with women's rights and and body autonomy and stuff like that. So it's influenced by stuff that's going on in the real world. Smile, the smile franchise by Parker Parker Finn.
Speaker 2:All it deals with various types of mental health issues and various people dealing with those. The first one is, you know, just a like a health worker and the sequel is a pop star, and there's some common ground found between those types of people with still this ever arcing loneliness and depression and mental health and anxiety. And then of course we have, like I said, on the flip coin of that, we have Megan, we have the child's play series still going strong Five nights at Freddy's, like a lot of gateway horror still happening. That's, you know, less reflective of stuff and is more escapism and more just fun. So I think we do have to. We still have the evolving horror, but it's still, I think, just as good, if not better yeah, I think that's a pretty fair statement yeah.
Speaker 1:I do. That's exciting too. It is as a as a fan, okay. So now, yeah, we're ready the part that I've been really excited about. Well, I've been excited about all of it. So you just mentioned how what's going on in society in real life can influence some of these films, particularly contemporary slasher horror films. Also, sometimes these films are inspired by true stories, whether it's like a direct retelling or whether it's just pulling things from lore such as jack the ripper or other mythology or true crime headlines. So I'd be interested in what sort of things you have in front of you, research wise, on some of the true crime connections, specifically with these 80s and 90s slasher films.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, so, um, to sort of get into that, I'm actually going to uh, take it a little bit further back from 80s, 90s slasher and just kind of extend it. Starting out just horror as a whole, right okay, I love that uh, so if I say the word universal monster, who do you think of frankenstein? Frankenstein's a good one, anyone else?
Speaker 1:um, I was right, I was gonna say godzilla. Okay, I don't know not universal.
Speaker 2:I I'm. I'm hinting at dracula oh Like the, you know, the universal monster.
Speaker 1:The universal monster Right, right Bram.
Speaker 2:Stoker wrote or published Dracula in 1897.
Speaker 1:Was it really that long ago have?
Speaker 2:either of you read yes, oh, my God.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Have either of you read Bram Stoker's dracula?
Speaker 1:yes, yes recently not recently.
Speaker 2:Okay, so um, not recently, no, uh, so as, as you may know that that book is intercut with uh, sort of like newspaper vignettes of of certain events going on, to sort of his framing device and transitional uh device yeah, so I'd like to actually read one right now, just as a frame setting.
Speaker 2:Okay okay, okay london lies today under the spell of a great terror. A nameless reprobate, half beast, half man, is at large. The ghoul-like creature who stalks through the streets of london is simply drunk with blood, and he will have more okay, oh nice, nice dramatic reading by the way, voiceover actor if anybody out there wants to hire him.
Speaker 1:Yes, if you need him, okay pay me, I will do things.
Speaker 2:Uh, so, uh, yeah, uh, just little little trick here. That's not from dracula, what? That is the star, which is the largest circulation of an evening paper in the united kingdom. Uh, that was posted saturday, the 8th of september 1888. That is about jack the ripper ripper.
Speaker 1:So that was a real life newspaper thing that they put into the novel what's that? I'm sorry sorry, is it my microphone? I?
Speaker 2:don't know.
Speaker 1:No, it's my internet um, so that's like you're saying, that's a real life, like it was a real life newspaper article that they put into the novel.
Speaker 2:No, no, I just framed it as something from the novel. Just to trick you, Just to trick us. Yeah, that's all. That's all.
Speaker 1:Just to pull the similarity. That's why you asked if we had read it recently, because we would have known you were lying to us.
Speaker 2:I like that. The reason I bring that up is, again, bram Stoker wrote Dracula or published it in 1897. Contemporary research that has effectively come to the conclusion that the book Dracula was written in direct inspiration of the Jack the Ripper murders. Um, and the, the big comparisons, uh, of that uh being a lot about um, so Bram Stoker's Dracula, if you want to break down, like the thematic themes, uh, a lot of is about the fear of uh foreign invasion from, like you know, quote, weird eastern european countries and like different customs and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Um, and you know, the framing in london feels extremely deliberate for a portion of the book um, and disease and and death and calamity, um, at the time of the Ripper murders, uh, london as a whole got this idea, uh, that the Ripper was this Jewish madman, you know, some foreign European vagrant going through and cutting up their women. Um, there was a huge, huge anti-semitism in the area, um, and so that sort of fueled more or less the at least tones of dracula, as well as, uh, some of the vampiric qualities being associated with Dracula. Vampire has been around for a while. He did not create them, of course, but some of those those things can still share, you know, uh, similarities within them. As you know, Jack the Ripper is known for one thing and that is ripping Um, and they did not use that word lightly, uh, and so that same kind of bleeds over into Dracula of, you know, draining the victims of blood and and gruesome scenes and all that sort of thing, um, so that's you know that Katie make a lot of sense how he would.
Speaker 1:So are you saying that, that they think he was just inspired by it or that he was deliberately writing?
Speaker 2:around the themes of jack the ripper. Uh, it was definitely more of a of a inspiration. Um, at the time that he started writing it, uh, I believe the ripper murders were still going on sort of quotations on that. Um, I believe he started writing somewhere around 89 or 90, somewhere in that late, late 1800s, um ballpark, shortly after the ripper murders either started or shortly after they ended, when it was still kind of fresh with everyone and um, him being in, uh, I believe he was uh, dublin, uh, he's an irish writer, so him being in, I believe he was Dublin, he's an Irish writer. So him being in that kind of general sphere of the United Kingdom area, he definitely would have been unindated with news about the Ripper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. And these themes of like the xenophobia and all of that. Do scholars think that Bram Stoker felt that way, or was he just making a comment on society as he saw it?
Speaker 2:I think he was. Just. The implication is he's just making that comment about society and and maybe just playing on people's fears, as, again, horror reflects society's fears. Uh, as again horror reflects, yeah, society spheres. At the time, society sphere was, you know, these, these quote, strange foreigners, um, and that sort of thing, but I don't know that, uh, he necessarily felt any particular way about it, one way or the other, I think, because I mean, if you think about, he frames dracula's from, uh, you know, transylvania, he's uh romani and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:If I think, if he were more directly trying to do it, he would make him from poland or or, or something like that yeah, right, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, interesting authors be pulling from headlines way back. Well, they say ripped from the ripped headlines and then I noticed, when he was like it was in the 80s and 90s, I was like thinking, oh, 1880s, 1800s we go way back to the 80s and 90s on generation in between we do taking it back, okay, yes, what else you got for us with the true crime?
Speaker 2:so I've got, I've, I've got some more sort of continuing off of that, that springboard of like fiction pulling from ripper specifically, um, the first known, really known, uh, I guess story inspired by the jack the ripper murders was published october 1888. Um, for context of timelines, katherine eddo and liz stride were killed on september 30th 1888.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, that's fast yeah, um, and the book is uh, uh, cursed Upon Mitre Square by John Francis Brewer. Uh, it is about Catherine Eddowes' murder at Mitre Square, uh, which happened September 30th. Um, it is not a good story, it's not good, but it is one of the earliest and one of the the first ones, um and uh, other ones are In Darkest London by Margaret Harkness, using the pseudonym John Law, published in 1889, and a couple other ones. And then we have movies getting again a little closer in time. The one that's actually really interesting is that, uh, the film jack the ripper in 1959, produced by monty burtman and robert s baker. Um, it's the. So, when I say jack the ripper, what do you picture in your head? Like? What does he look like? You know?
Speaker 1:I think of someone in just almost like an old-time suit, like well-dressed but dark and like a hat, and I don't know if I read somewhere that people saw someone with like a mustache or facial hair of some sort, but not like a huge guy, but like an average-looking guy in nice clothes. Yeah, I would say the same.
Speaker 2:What kind? Of hat I think a top hat damn, I was thinking a top hat.
Speaker 1:That's wrong. You think a top hat?
Speaker 2:do you, uh, do you potentially picture him with like a cape or cloak as well? Yes, yes yeah, that's the iconic imagery of him that comes from, uh, the 1959 film jack the ripper, and that was directly inspired by dracula and the curse of frankenstein giving him a top hat and cape. Those are not from witness accounts or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Uh, he wouldn't have worn any of that as he would have been mugged isn't that funny to think that we think that that was like I don't even know hardly any. I mean I know like what's in the public knowledge. Think that that was like I don't even know hardly any. I mean I know like what's in the public knowledge of jack the ripper. I don't know specifics but, like you and I both had the same picture in our heads and it had nothing to do with factual information. Totally, that's kind of scary to think uh, the.
Speaker 2:The actual witness description of the Ripper is someone between I believe it's 5'5 and 5'7, which is average height for the time, somewhere around 30 years old. He did have a dark carroty mustache, which is just a thick pointed mustache, dark overcoat, sometimes fur line, sometimes not, not in saying that he owned more than one coat, black gloves and he wore a flat cap or like a newsboy cap would be the common sort of thing, and his dress attire was not unusual for the time. As it was autumn in Whitechapel he had to keep warm, so him wearing a heavy coat and everything like that wouldn't be seen as weird, but also it would cover any blood stains on him.
Speaker 1:So functional and blends in and hides shit yeah, functional and secretive.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I need to move on from Jack the Ripper because we'll be here for an hour and a half if I keep going.
Speaker 1:We can circle back, but I just want to get through a couple more, a couple more films oh sorry, I will jump in real quick and say Katie wants to ask you your opinion on that, but we'll save it for a little after show clip, I think. Yeah, we do like a short after. Yeah, I'll ask you on there that's perfect, that'll be fun. Okay, so keep going. This is fascinating.
Speaker 2:So moving on from that into two more modern slasher films directly. So the other thing with slashers is that. So the earliest ones would be psycho and peeping Tom, which came out in 1960, same year, and that's sort of where you're like. Just that's your start of it, or at least pop culture start, I'm sure there's probably a niche, one that I missed in my research.
Speaker 2:But that's your big start of it, um, and then it sort of branches out into these sub genres of itself, um, so we've got, like, uh, splatter films which are splatter film you're uh gratuitous gory over the top, borderline cartoonish gore levels of movie.
Speaker 2:Um, we've got uh blood feast 1963. It is considered the first splatter film. 2000 Maniacs in 64. Color Me Blood Red, 65. The Wizard of Gore in 70. That sort of stuff, and some would say like the Terrifier films, are a recent example of the splatter genre. The Hatchet franchise. The Hatchet franchise is another recent example of splatter films. Okay, then there's also the Krimi films, which is another. I'm calling it a subgenre Because it has it's own style, but it's much more in terms of, like Foreign influence.
Speaker 1:Okay so it's.
Speaker 2:These are German slashers, basically. Oh, what are they called? Krimi, I believe is the pronunciation Okay, k R I M I, okay, and it it comes from. Post-world War II, germany ended up adapting Edgar Wallace's crime novels into these films 1950s to the early seventies featuring villains in bold costumes accompanied by jazzy scores. Um, some examples are like fellowship with the frog from 59, which is a murderer terrorizing london. Where does that come from, I wonder? Uh, similar adaptations such as green archer, dead eyes of london in 1961, so on and so forth. The other genre in here that again falls into that sort of foreign influence, and it's my favorite sub-genre of slashers, is Italian giallos. Giallos are fantastic. They are murder mystery crime procedurals with heavy emphasis on like eroticism, sexuality and psychological horror.
Speaker 1:Oh, they are great. I have to say I did not know slasher films had so many genres. I will say did you know that Like it was, like, like this is fascinating to me, yeah, yeah. And what did you say? That one's called.
Speaker 2:It's, that is uh the giallo. Giallo, it's fun to say, means yellow in italian.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, okay I don't know the connotation on that one I can't answer that question for you.
Speaker 2:I just know it means yellow, that's, that's all I know, but it sounds cool.
Speaker 1:Anyway it does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they are most well known for, like those those themes, of course, I talked about, but they are, uh, the cliches. Amongst them are the it's a lot of pov shots from the killer. The killer is usually wearing, uh, dark black gloves and some kind of overcoat or something like that. They're usually dressed completely in black, um, and they usually use a razor blade or a knife. Uh, it's a lot of slashing and, uh, it plays out like a client crime, procedural, sometimes a bit gory, sometimes not. Um, they are very dramatic. The lighting uh, they use lighting to set mood in this a lot more and to tell emotion. So, like, if you have your, you know your female protagonist is in a darkly lit warehouse. She turns a corner and suddenly the lighting on her is bright red. She's in danger, she's going to die, um, and they use that kind of stuff. It's, it's, it's really cool. Uh, definitely falls a little more art house at times, but it is super cool.
Speaker 2:Genre it's one of my favorite genres. And then in the early 70s, we have the exploitation films, which include the Hammer films, hammer production films, such as Hands of the Ripper man. He keeps coming back, he keeps coming back to him. He's extremely popular, um, and then even uh, like giallos, uh got influenced by the uh exploitation genre with films such as uh the new york ripper and uh tenebrae. Both of those were inspired by the exploitation genre, with new york ripper actually taking inspirations from, uh, I believe, some true crime stuff on its own. I would have to check the release date to confirm that, but I'm pretty sure New York Ripper has some inspirations within, like Times Square, torso killer, jack the Ripper, obviously, and and things along those lines. Okay, and then moving on into just other movies inspired by true crime cases, you guys probably know this one, but Ed Gein or Ed Gein I've heard it pronounced both ways Inspired Texas Chainsaw, massacre, psycho and Silence of the Lamb.
Speaker 1:Okay, I Texas Chainsaw Massacre scares the ever living shit out of me and I didn't know it was based on. Did you know it was based on real life to crime?
Speaker 1:Maybe not the first time I saw it, but yeah, I know, when I realized that and I watched it again, I couldn't finish it. I was so scared. Like I remember, as a cause, I have a sister who's seven years older, so she was watching it and, like I said, I grew up in the 80s. We all saw, most of us saw things we weren't supposed to see way before we could see it. That thing scares me, so that's like a real life person. That's so scary.
Speaker 2:It's so. That's the funny thing that you mentioned of upon realizing that this is based on a real person, it freaks you out more. That is deliberately baked into the marketing of that movie. I believe the beginning of the first one does say this is real right. It straight up is like this is a true story. Texas Chainsaw's connection to Ed Gein pretty much stops at wearing skin, and that's it. Which is the worst place for it to stop.
Speaker 1:I think you know comparably like if you told me oh ed gein only killed people.
Speaker 2:The chance I'd be like, oh okay, well, at least he didn't wear their skin. Like, no, he wore skin. Uh, no, ed was a, uh was a a grave robber. Uh, basically, he is now classified as a serial killer. He wasn't originally. Uh, the fbi recently update their qualifications for serial killer and he meets them now. So he is now a serial killer, but, um, he only killed two people oh, okay, is he?
Speaker 1:but okay, right, he killed two, but then he was the one that collected, like they found, like nipples and stuff the nipple belts.
Speaker 2:He made a nipple belt yes there are photos of of like some of that stuff online. Um, it's a very interesting. They're not gory or anything like that, it's like tanned leather. It's extremely interesting. But, um, yeah, he mostly grave robbed. Um, he pretty much just grave robbed. The two people he ended up killing were two, uh, older women who vaguely reminded him of his mother, and that seems to be the reason behind the killing. But it was not planned, premeditated, it was very quick. He had, he was, he suffered from low IQ, probably some other mental health issues and, of course, just as per case with serial murderers, terrible childhood, the worst.
Speaker 1:Oh, so bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember hearing about that like a podcast, yeah yeah, um, but he inspired, uh, yeah, he inspired leather face with the leather face part. Uh, psycho. He inspired norman bates with the relationship with his mother, um, as well as the cross-dressing and stuff like that. Uh, and silence of the Lambs. Buffalo Bill once again skin suit was the inspiration.
Speaker 1:Can I tell y'all real? I'll tell y'all real quick. I have to just keep busting in with these dumb stories. I have no go ahead. We kind of work on ADHD time because me so funny story. That is not funny. I hated that Troy used to do this. So this is going to make us sound so crazy, but when our kids were babies and you know, you give them a bath and you put lotion on whatever Troy, every time, I swear to God, every time he would do it, he would do the lotion and he'd go with the lotion in the basket and I'd be like stop, they're like babies. And he's like well, they don't know what it means. It's funny. And I'm like it's not funny. But every time and what was the other thing you said, put something with the skin. What's the rhyme?
Speaker 2:It puts the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes and stop. That's what you would say to our kids. That's so bad. So every time I think of Buffalo bill I, I now think of my husband, totally healthy.
Speaker 2:It's fine.
Speaker 1:My children, I mean it's it works anyway, I love just play.
Speaker 2:Goodbye Horses, it's all good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you'll be you'll be fine, it'll be okay.
Speaker 2:First horror movie to win an oscar, by the way. Yeah, yeah, facts, facts, great movie, but I think to your point.
Speaker 1:Part of what makes it so great and stand the test of time and people have these very specific moments that, as a culture, we remember from the film is because of the real life psychological component of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. So the other one, as again, we keep circling back to scream as well. Scream is inspired by a real case. What Yep? I knew that too. So I know, danny, you're not originally from Florida, right? No? Right, katie, are you?
Speaker 1:No, you're not originally from Florida, right?
Speaker 2:No, right, katie, are you? No, I'm not, I'm from the Midwest. Oh okay, do either of you remember? I say remember because I don't remember the exact dates of anything but remember the Gainesville Ripper.
Speaker 1:No no.
Speaker 2:Neither of you, okay. Okay, so Danny Rowling is the Gesville ripper that happened here in florida, of course, at florida state university, um, in and around that area, uh, he. So there's a weird thing, because I'm a ripperologist, when I hear serial killers and you know, we name them all, of course, because it's it's a good way to keep track of them, and when I hear a serial killer called ripper, I sort of almost subconsciously compare, right. It's sort of like this weird like don't call them ripper unless they sort of macabre, as it sounds earned the title, if that makes sense um I'm probably sounding terrible, I promise.
Speaker 1:I care about the victims. I swear Honestly, cody is one of the most gentlest, kindest people. I'm serious, I'm not just saying that, but I mean it conjures a specific type of killer when you say that.
Speaker 2:And so, if they, didn't kill that way.
Speaker 1:I can see how that would be.
Speaker 2:But go on, danny Rowling earned the name Rough. I probably won't get into too many of the details just because, but sufficient to say he earned the name with especially a specific murder that he did. Do he earned that name very well? Well, he did, do he? He earned that name very well? Well, uh, he was arrested.
Speaker 2:Um, I want to say he was arrested somewhere late seventies, early eighties. I should have written dates down, but I, I I'm thinking it was that, um four years after his arrest, uh, kevin Williamson, who is the screenwriter for the original scream, uh, was watching an ABC show called Turning Point that was talking about the Gainesville Ripper crimes and it scared him so much. Just the thought that, because, basically what Danny Rowling's MO was, he would break into women's homes and he would kill and mutilate them. That was it. And that scared, the thought of that scared Kevin so so much that he wrote scream as sort of like a that's way scarier than jason or freddy or anything like that, because ghostface is just a guy right, you know, who do you never suspect until the very end, it's all, it's whoever you don't think it's gonna be, and that it's.
Speaker 2:Whoever's wearing plaid, is it? If you go back and watch them, uh, not all of them, not all of them, but if you go back and watch, I want to say it's like one, one, two and three probably, but I know four does it, five does it, um, and I don't know if six does it, but yeah, one of the killers, billy, is wearing plaid. Jill roberts, where spoilers for scream uh, yeah yeah, I mean, if you're listening in uh, scream four.
Speaker 2:Uh, I'm pretty sure like, uh, mrs loomis is wearing plaid in in scream two. Um, I know that uh spoilers for scream five. If you haven't seen it as well, I know it's kind of recent, but uh, jack quaid's character, richie kirsch, is wearing plaid as well.
Speaker 1:It's a constant thing that they do I wonder if they planned that or if, after the first one, they just said let's keep this going.
Speaker 2:I love things like that yeah, I think after probably it happening two or three times, they started being deliberate with it. I think, like scream fours is is deliberate.
Speaker 1:I think yeah, because like I think five is as well I think about the first two, and I mean it was the the 90s.
Speaker 1:Like we all be wearing flannel back to the 90s yeah, yeah so like that was probably like I mean, it's a teenage boy, you're gonna put them in a flannel, right, the first one and then probably the second one, you know, but then maybe by the third one they're like it's not in fashion anymore, but they were like you know, let's keep it going. What would be funny is if scream seven has like four or five people in plaid and then, you don't know, everybody wears plaid the whole movie, seriously it just it takes place in canada uh, yeah, but yeah, no, it's a specific like blue plaid shirt um, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:It's that, that shirt, if you keep an eye out for it.
Speaker 2:You'll see it that's wild yeah uh. Have you ever uh heard of or seen the movie the Stepfather?
Speaker 1:Yes, that's based on a real thing.
Speaker 2:No, yes, it is.
Speaker 1:Like I get. Okay, so tell everybody about that movie who hasn't seen it.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the shorthand, because it's been a while since I've watched Stepfather.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just basic basic outline.
Speaker 2:So the shorthand of it is a woman new husband type situation, I believe the daughter sort of is creeped out by him, by the stepfather, and through the course of the film it is revealed that he's a serial killer who joins a new family, stays with them and then, when things fall apart, he just kills them and moves on. Yeah, that's effectively it, and that's real. There's like four movies too. It's so weird. So it's based on John List, who, in November of 1971, killed his wife, mother and three children and then disappeared.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know about this Katie. Yeah, was this the guy where, like people think they've seen him in Europe and stuff over the years. I don't know how much you know about the case he was never found right. Let me see if I could be confusing him with someone else, but or maybe this was the guy that they found with unsolved um mysteries and they did like a bust of him and like his current wife or something recognized him or a neighbor. I could be like totally crossing five different stories.
Speaker 2:I know people are going to be like I just remember that guy got away for at least for a while so john list uh eluded justice for 18 years yeah, yeah he was uh arrested after he was on america's most wanted because they made like a literal bust of him or something oh yeah, I remember they used to make those like yeah, and someone recognized him it was his wife, I don't know it was someone he knew, but yeah being like oh, I'm newly married, this man's so great.
Speaker 1:And then watching America's Miss Wanted be like, and that's it. Yeah, you know what? Because I think that story he realized like oh wow, that really looks like me, Because it was him. So do you think he was like? Watching America's Miss Wanted to see if he was on there. Who knows.
Speaker 2:I mean it's a popular show. I mean it's a popular show, it's a good show. I mean I met the host of it.
Speaker 1:This is great oh, side note, we have to throw in this and then we'll continue on with our true crime. Cody met a very famous final girl. What's her name? I was blanking. I see her in my brain.
Speaker 2:Heather Langenkamp, nancy Thompson.
Speaker 1:Yes yes, he met her and he has a picture with her and I thought that was really cool, I mean, he's met a lot of people.
Speaker 2:I have a signed sealed VHS copy of Nightmare 3.
Speaker 1:That's so cool, so cool, so cool, and then America's Most Wanted. So you met John Walsh.
Speaker 2:Yes, I met John Walsh. Yes, I met john walsh. I've met john awesome.
Speaker 1:We were just talking about his son's case on our um last true crime, or our first true crime. Um, obviously horrendous, but man, that show went on too. I think they said that they've caught 1200 fugitives and counting sounds about, right yeah yeah, nuts that's wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was a nice. He was a nice, quiet guy. Um, we delivered. My dad delivered shirts to him, uh, he had gotten them commissioned from a friend of ours and we drove up there, uh, to virginia's where uh they were I guess their studio it was or is, I don't know if it's still there but uh and delivered uh some shirts to it wow, yeah that's cool that's really cool.
Speaker 1:That's super cool. All right, any more true crime relations for us so I've got probably four more, I think um one of them is actually like a.
Speaker 2:It's tentatively linked at best, but I thought it was very fascinating, okay. So, uh, I don't know if you know this, this one's kind of a niche movie the Burning, the Burning it sounds familiar.
Speaker 1:I'm going to Google it because I swear it sounds really familiar to me. What's the premise? 1981.
Speaker 2:Friday the 13th, but not yeah. Okay, it's a Friday ripoff. It's a Friday 13th ripoffoff.
Speaker 2:Funnily enough, the makeup effects are done by tom savini okay yeah, same, same uh makeup artist so the story of that artist yeah, the story of that is um, there is a I want to say he's like a janitor or something along those lines um, and some kids pull a prank on him and it results him getting horrifically burned, uh, and he comes back for revenge, uh, and he's known as cropsy. Um, and that is inspired by a local. I want to say it's new york legend of cropsy. Who's this crazed man who lives across the tracks? He escaped from a mental asylum and was taking kids. Turns out that was a serial killer by the name of Andre Rand. What Dang Real guy. The urban legend turned out to be a real person. There's a great documentary on it.
Speaker 1:Wow, what was his name?
Speaker 2:Andre Rand.
Speaker 1:Andre Rand oh, we, so that was so. It was like an urban legend.
Speaker 2:But then it was turned out oh, just kidding, it's real yeah, it was basically like kids went missing in this area, you know, of new york, and it sort of spiraled into this urban legend because no one knows knew what was happening. Of course they, you know, runaways, what have you. And so everyone's kind of like oh well, you know, we'll spread this urban legend to keep kids safe, as you do. You know, stay out of the side of the tracks, cropsey's there, he'll get you. Andre Rand was a serial killer who frequented. He was a vagrant. He frequented the train tracks and allegedly I don't believe he's convicted for any of them allegedly did kidnap and murder several children.
Speaker 1:Jeez, dang Scary allegedly did kidnap and murder several children jeez dang scary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, again fantastic documentary I believe it's just called cropsy, uh, the documentary I highly recommend.
Speaker 1:It's really good oh, you'd be into that sounds good and then, uh, on the topic of uh giallos.
Speaker 2:uh, the killer is still among us is a really good giallo that is based on El Monstro de Florence, if I'm saying that right In English. The Monster of Florence, who is an unidentified serial killer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I'm looking, I'm googling images, as you're talking 1986.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm listening to you, I'm just looking at images that that movie came out in the middle of the, the serial murders of the monster of florence, the monster of florence is like comparable to zodiac. Um, for like the style of crime, bit of zodiac, bit of Ripper type stuff, but a son of Sam type thing, lovers Lane style killer would pretty much quickly dispatch the male and then kill and mutilate the women.
Speaker 1:So this is an Italian film.
Speaker 2:That is an Italian film. The director, camillo Tetti, I believe his last name is had made it as a warning for young people, to remind them don't go out there.
Speaker 1:This guy is still out there and that is a completely unsolved case dang and and, as is the case with unsolved serial stuff, eventually they just stop right and it's assumed eventually the killer moves or dies or something like that according to the, the fbi, the three main reasons a serial killer would stop is they were apprehended for an unrelated crime, they died or they moved on.
Speaker 2:Yes, we've now maybe started to lean towards that. There's a possibility that they just stop of their own accord. Golden State Killer did that Joseph DeAngelo, I believe, is his name. Uh, he just stopped one day and was dormant until he was arrested. What in like 2020?
Speaker 2:yeah, recently very recently, um and the same, with, like uh, dennis raider, the btk killer. He stopped for years and then resurfaced in the late 90s, early 2000s and thankfully he was caught before he could do any more harm. But he was gearing up to do it again, of course. And the Long Island serial killer who was just recently caught same kind of thing went dormant for years, and then he started to crop back up and police apprehended him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know in the case of, like the golden state killer, it was familial dna that that connected him. So like it wasn't his direct dna, it was, um, they had dna in the system and connected it with a family member of his and like figured it out that way, which is relatively common in america right now, but in other countries, uh, illegal because it's considered a privacy violation yep yeah, you can't do it.
Speaker 1:I want to say canada, you can't do it, and maybe france, I don't know. There's a few places where, um it's, if someone doesn't consent for that kind of like two or three degrees separation on the dna, it it's not you can't do it.
Speaker 2:That's why, if you read like 23andMe and any of those DNA testing ancestry things, read their terms of service. They will expressly mention that the police can use this.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I remember doing that. I'm like that's fine If I've ever done something where you need my DNA then, I deserve to be punished. Or someone in my family.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to know. Oh, facts. That's how, funnily enough, btk was caught in a similar fashion of his daughter went for a gynecology exam and they took DNA off her pap smear and compared it. Same kind of thing. Yeah, that was in early 2000s. They did that.
Speaker 1:Wow. Yeah, and those like dormant a long time? Yeah, those were. Yeah, yeah, it's wild, oh wild all right, what else? We got, I got the cookies we got uh.
Speaker 2:Don't know if you ever heard of uh, this movie town, that dreaded sundown. No, okay, so this one is great title this one is an interesting.
Speaker 2:It's based on a real, uh, I believe newspaper headline is the title uh, that's what they called the area for the longest time was the town that dreaded sundown. Um, this is the one that's less like. Everything I've listed has been, like you know, tangibly inspired by this. One is much more direct correlation. The town that read a sundown is based on the Texarkana moonlight murders, also known as the phantom killer murders, and the film, with the exception of, obviously, the slasher little tidbits here and there, the. The victims in the film are the people who died in real life. Their names and everything are the same died in real life. Their names and everything are the same wow, so did their family authorize that?
Speaker 2:no god, no, no, this is. This is like the 80s or something they know yeah but uh, funnily enough, every year on the anniversary of those murders they play that in the center of town on a big screen.
Speaker 1:It's weird as hell what well text arcana, I've been there. I mean no shade. If you're from there, you live there. I think that's where olivia's from yeah, but it is, it is interesting it's a small little place yeah, it's small and there's my. Yeah, it's interesting that you would want that to be your kind of like right yearly tradition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really funny because there's a there's a documentary I saw on netflix some time ago about just like kind of in that same vein of like cropsy, of like urban legends, that kind of steered into reality and they cover the tex arcana moonlight murders. They go there and they talk to uh I guess he's like the mayor at the time or one of the mayors, because technically they have two mayors um, but they talk to one of the people about like don't you like think it's weird? And aren't you concerned about showing that film every year? And aren't you worried that might inspire someone to pick it up and maybe try to get that fame or whatever? Uh, and the guy goes well, no, of course not. Of course not. That's ridiculous. He goes.
Speaker 2:In fact, you know they just they did a sequel to the movie just in 2014 because they were just here shooting that and he goes. And are you aware that the plot of that movie is someone becoming inspired by the Moonlight Murders to do a copycat? And he goes no, but they already shot the movie and so we were done.
Speaker 1:He's probably like um yeah, well, they gave me a check so that's fair play, fair play, get, get that money.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna, uh, but it is funny you mentioned that, like you know. It's weird that you'd want that kind of be like your legacy or your known thing. Um, over in in london and white chapel, you probably know this, but they have jack the ripper tours that visit all the murder sites. Some are better than others, um, and it's a. They have a whole tourism industry based on the ripper right whole thing. Yeah, locals hate it.
Speaker 2:Locals hate it I bet um to the point that, like anyone who like it, doesn't matter which tour you're on, because there are some that are really good tours that are uh, you know, this is this is where, um, polly ann nichols was murdered on. Uh, I believe polly nichols would have been august 30th. I might be wrong on that. Uh, late august was polly nichols, august 19th actually, I think. Anyways, uh, this is where polly nichols was dead. Um, you know, her full name name was Marianne Nichols. She was X, y, z years old. She lived this kind of they will talk about the victims a lot and those are the really good tours to go on, because those have some historical value to them. And then you have the ones who are just like you know, and then Jack slid her throat down to the bone and then pulled her organs out and it's like what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 1:Oh, no yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, locals there were like they'll shout at you if they see you on a tour. They will shame you for being on a tour. Absolutely, oh man, I mean I feel like the educational component.
Speaker 1:That's why I would want to do it. Yeah, because they are real people who we still don't have justice for and won't. So I think that that component's important and and maybe it's maybe it's morbid to be fascinated with that, but I think like my fascination with it is that we can't or haven't yet been able to figure out who it is, more so than, like, the way that it happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, but I like I go back and forth on that sort of thing because like, yeah, on the one hand, like I said earlier, I'm I am, I do my best to be like victim advocate and anytime I'm talking about ripper, like I even have, um, I have all 11 women's names written down here, um, because I don't know all 11 of their names, but I do know the canonical five, um, and I do try to talk about the canonical five as much as I possibly can. Uh, if anyone asks me about ripper stuff, and I do try to steer the conversation about them, what we do know about them, because we don't know a lot. Um, and on the flip side of that, right off to my, my left, I have a Jack the Ripper costume. So I'm like, I'm like two sides of it. I'm like, on the one hand, it's this horrible, tragic thing that absolutely happened, but on the other hand, like I said earlier, it's 136 years ago. It is practically mythology now.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There's this weird kind of back and forth of two worlds type thing about it and I think, do you have a top hat?
Speaker 2:No, god, no, I have a newsboy cap because I'm not even You're authentic.
Speaker 1:I like it.
Speaker 2:I actually I do have. I'm proud of myself. It's a combination of authenticness and like theatrical. So I have the flat boy cap and I have just a standard kind of Victorian style dress shirt, but I also have a satin Inverness coat over top.
Speaker 2:You get that cape effect without it being too opera cape and again, he would have been mugged. He would have absolutely been mugged if he did that. But yeah, it's such a weird like and you described it as like true crime, as a fandom uh, earlier, and it's. It's a weird thing because it is a fandom but at the same time, like at least me personally, I don't like to use the word fandom in relation to it. You know what I mean and it's this sort of like, yeah, this weird like tangential ether space of we're very interested in it, but also like this is horrible and it comes up a lot in like discussions about serial killers. People will go like, well, what's your favorite serial killer? Like, well, favorites not the right word.
Speaker 2:I know what you're asking me. But favorite is not the word to use with this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, correct. Yeah, that's how I view it too, that especially now, you know, this sort of season of justice where we have the ability to catch Golden State killers and BTK, like more of that where it's like these people still deserve justice, people still deserve justice and even the people who have been caught and haven't like those stories still deserve to be told because there's inherent value in their lives and in the like warning component for the rest of us. Um, and that's not to like victim shame or you know, it's never the victim's fault no, no, no no but just a reminder that there are these people who walk among us, Right?
Speaker 2:So like that's kind of where my I'm with you on that, where mine lies, and not necessarily making it more salacious than it has to be it's just sometimes really salacious on its own, you know, depending exactly, and I'll, cause I've got some, you know coworkers and stuff who don't know as much about like the ripper stuff or whatever, workers and stuff who don't know as much about like the ripper stuff or whatever, and I you know they'll talk about it in some not meaning anything, but they'll talk about it in this sort of romanticized sense that you know, because it's victorian london, it's immediately romanticized, and they'll talk about it in that sort of way of well, yeah, he just killed some women.
Speaker 2:And that's when I will get into the gory details, not as a salaciousness but as a hone in the point of this is what he did, this is who he was. He's just not human. He's human, but you know what I mean. Like the humanity is gone, you know he's just a serial killer, he's just an evil serial killer, basically. So that's always, uh, something I really try to reinforce and like, hey, no, before you sit here and think like, oh, it was, you know, just some girls got murdered, it's like, well, no and not to say that even even if they were just murdered, it still wouldn't be terrible.
Speaker 2:It's just, you know, it's to hone that point in of like no, he didn't just kill them like, he did so much worse yeah but now we're getting on ripper tangents again.
Speaker 1:Uh it always comes back to that always, always I know what um. So you said did you have any more true crime connections?
Speaker 2:I had the one more, and that's the. That's the, maybe one, that's the, I don't know if it is um. So this is where there is okay. So, uh, you guys, you you've seen friday the 13th, the original, the original friday the 13th at least. So it might be emphasis on, might um be inspired by the lake. I'm going to say it's bottom murders or Bodum murders. It's uh, finland, um, it's a lake in Finland.
Speaker 2:Oh uh, where, um, sometime between 4. Am and 6. Am. Uh, in June of 1960., uh, oh, I'm going to ruin these names. Myla Yorkland and Anya Maki, who are both, I believe, 15 years old, and Seppo Boisman, were killed by stabbing and blunt force trauma to their heads while sleeping in a tent.
Speaker 1:Oh man, reason number 100. Why you don't go camping? Uh, reason number 100. Why?
Speaker 2:you don't go camping? Yeah, see, guys, don't go camping. The uh, their fourth uh uh individual, who is there? Uh, nils gustafsson, who is 18, was found outside of the tent with broken facial bones and stab wounds. There is no, it's unsolved, oh yeah, so, um, you can probably already see the similarities between friday the 13th and this. Um, the only reason I say that this is tangential at best and maybe maybe not, is, according to basically everyone involved with the production of the original film, it was not inspired by this, which is about the most direct response you can get, right, and what are the odds that Sean Cunningham or Tom Savini or anyone involved, victor Miller, anyone involved in that production had heard of a Finnish murder from the 1960s while filming, filming a movie in the late 70s, early 80s? Like? Probably not, but a weird coincidence anyways, and I just felt like it was worth bringing up because I thought it was interesting anyways.
Speaker 1:Um, it is. So it's just kind of like. It's kind of like lore, it's not really facts, yeah yeah, like, and people are literally saying no, it was not inspired by that like I'm telling you fools no but yeah, they'll be saying it, they still be saying it, it happens that's an interesting coincidence.
Speaker 1:Interesting it is still it really is um wow, so that was a lot I think we can probably um loop back to some of like the ripper stuff and all that in our sure, in our bonus, but um, was there anything else for the general public on this topic, cody, that we didn't get to yet?
Speaker 2:um, let me, let me, let me stare at my notes for a second yes, I love that again. I wrote a lot about like just you know, and we went over it. But like the general definitions and like you know, hey watch this movie, watch that movie, type thing. Oh, that's a good one.
Speaker 1:So tell people, tell people. If they've never watched any of these 80s, 90s movies we talked about slasher films tell them your top three to go see. Should they start with jason x?
Speaker 2:probably not. Tell me I would not recommend it's. Jason x is an acquired taste and if you've never watched a slasher movie, it will either make you go well, I want to see what this is about or you'll go. This is so stupid. What are we doing like? Those are your choices. If you're used to slasher movies and you watch jason x, you'll be like okay yeah, okay, I'm either great with this or I will never watch it again and it will not ruin my perception of anything.
Speaker 2:no, um, like to get someone into the genre? Uh, the easy answer for that, obviously, is like the big three of halloween, nightmare and friday, although I I have to say, uh, put on part two or part three for Friday, simply because that first one is so long it's not a long movie.
Speaker 1:I think it's a little under two hours.
Speaker 2:It might be an hour and a half, but it feels like two hours. But they film a completely uncut scene of Alice making coffee, like cut that, oh my God, cut that. So it's a very slow, ppaced movie, of course. But, that being said, if you are aware of because who isn't aware of friday the 13th? Who isn't aware of jason? If you're aware of that, then watch part one, going completely blind, because then it will be effective, because it was effective on me, having watched jason x only and having been aware of Jason Voorhees as an icon, watching that first film is whiplash and is great. But otherwise, for those I would recommend, like part two, part three would be like a good starting point nightmare.
Speaker 2:You can do nightmare one. Personally, I push towards dream warrior. Nightmare three, because it's the best one. It is fantastic. You can watch nightmare two, I, I, I personally love nightmare two, but it is a departure and again kind of a whiplash movie, considering what came before. It was nightmare one and then nightmare two has nothing to do with nightmare one. It's just there and, yeah, very it's often cited as and I agree it's the gayest horror movie ever.
Speaker 1:It's the gayest slasher film ever okay, katie has to go get her power cord, but we'll keep chatting, yeah, okay, so y'all heard it from Cody. Start with the top three or Texas Chainsaw.
Speaker 2:Throw Texas Chainsaw in there too, why not?
Speaker 1:might as well. I mean it, you know, and that that was even, that was late 70s, right when that came out Like 70s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something like that yeah.
Speaker 1:So y'all heard it here from Cody. Listen, I mean listen.
Speaker 2:Watch those.
Speaker 1:We'd love to know y'all's feedback too, listeners, on what's your favorite slasher. Are you into slashers? Do you want to watch some? Now that we talked about it Are you creeped out by true crime like me.
Speaker 1:Are you fascinated? Like Katie and Cody, we want to know all the things. And also, we're coming to the end of our episode here with Cody, but he's not leaving yet. We're going to film a little after show on our Patreon. So, those of you listening, if you want to join our Patreon $8 a month because we're 80s babies you're going to support us. We make zero money and you'll have access to bonus episodes and some merch. I just showed Katie something I just designed. It's really good, you guys, I can't wait to get it myself. I know it's going to be fun. So join us then. But thank you so much for tuning in to Generation Inbetween. Thank you to Cody.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yes, we can't wait to talk some more to you in just a few minutes, but thanks to Cody for joining in and giving us all his super fan knowledge. And, like I said, join us on Patreon Also. Guys, please give us a like, a subscribe, a follow on all the things and share our episodes with everyone. And until next time, something for you to think about listeners. What's your favorite scary movie?
Speaker 2:What's your favorite scary movie?
Speaker 1:That was awesome. I wish we could see you, but you'll have to, I know, Can you do a video of that to send us too? That'd be awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that I could absolutely do, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, Well, thank you so much, Cody. Thanks listeners.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course.
Speaker 1:We'll see you on the next episode. Bye everybody, bye everyone.
