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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between.
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Spooky Nostalgia: Revisiting "Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark"
Remember being terrified by the ghost stories you read under the covers as a kid? Do you ever look at a green ribbon and wonder what if it has a morbid meaning?
If you ever double checked the backseat of your car before jumping in to drive home alone, you might be a Xennial fan of the "Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark" series. And we are too.
Join us as we kick off an early spooky season episode and take a nostalgic trip back to the 80s and 90s, revisiting the eerie magic of Alvin Schwartz's "Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark" series and the younger age classic "In a Dark Dark Room."
This episode was made possible by the following sources:
“Scary Stories” documentary: Amazon Prime
Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark via Wikipedia
Why Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark Frightened so Many Parents, via Smithsonian Magazine
Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, Movie versus Book, via Time
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Do you remember putting your name on the wait list at your elementary school library so you could check out a book that scared the ever-loving mess out of you?
Katie Parsons:Do you remember the thrill of staying awake past your bedtime, huddled under the covers with your flashlight, reading stories like the Babysitter, the Big Toe and the Green Ribbon? If?
Dani Combs:you answered yes to these questions, you might be a Xenial and you might be a fan of the scary story books of author Alvin Schwartz.
Katie Parsons:Hello, I am Dani, hello I'm Katie and you're listening to Generation In Between, a Xenial podcast where we remember, revisit and sometimes relearn all kinds of things from our 80s childhoods and 90s teen young adulthoods. And today we are having an early spooky season spooky themed episode because it is almost Halloween season.
Speaker 3:We're recording on September 19th, yeah, so you'll probably have this in a few days.
Katie Parsons:Hey, spooky season here in Florida. We're trying to usher it in a little bit because it is still so hot here. So hot, so hot, so hot. So we have other Halloween episodes planned for you the entire month of October and some special guests. But this is one we just could not wait on for today.
Dani Combs:No, we could not, and I'll tell you why in a second. But we are going to be talking about some classic 80s, 90s children literature, everyone, like I said in the intro, the Scary Stories books written by Alvin Schwartz. We're going to talk about the three OG Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark books, as well as another book of his called In a Dark Dark Room. Yay, so, katie, just by me saying these, do you remember any of these books? No, Okay. I don't think so?
Katie Parsons:So the story of the green ribbon, or the girl in the green ribbon, I think I know, but there's another Well, I'm going to read it later, so you will see.
Dani Combs:So you're literally going to read me stories, literally going to read you some stories and our listeners, of course.
Katie Parsons:Yes, I'm so excited so I have a Snoopy blanket I'm wrapped up in, I've got some coffee, I've got some snacks, because Dani did all the heavy lifting on this and was just like here, read your lines. So I'm very excited about it.
Dani Combs:So you don't remember these books. I'm assuming you did not read these books. I'm sure I didn't. Okay, do you?
Katie Parsons:even like scary stories? Read these books. I'm sure I didn't. Okay, do you even like scary stories? Hmm, that is kind of a loaded question, because I like mystery and suspense.
Speaker 3:Right, and you like true crime.
Katie Parsons:I love true crime. I mean, I don't love that true crime happens. That sounded really bad. I like the storytelling aspect of trying to figure out things like that. Okay. So, fiction-wise, I guess, like if I am reading a fiction book which I really often don't, I'm usually reading nonfiction stuff I will skew towards something suspenseful or scary Horror, maybe not, but I wouldn't say I don't like it. I just didn't grow up with a lot of it, and so if I find things now, I tend to want something a little scary.
Dani Combs:Okay, so maybe this is your evolving, I'm evolving, you know it's interesting. You say that because, like I, I like on, am on this weird like pendulum swing for scary stories. I, when I was a kid, I was a chicken, but then I, like, loved scary stuff. My mom was a huge horror fan and she was a huge reader and she loved Stephen King, yes, okay. So we'll talk more about that in a little bit. So I did read all these books, which is funny because they scared me and I was a scaredy cat and my sister out there will say, oh my God, yes, she was, I still am. The thing about me is I do enjoy scary. I don't like gory, okay, okay, and I don't like realistic scary. I don't like true crime. I don't like thrillers where it has like missing people and like serial killers.
Dani Combs:I don't like that because that's too real for me. Like I like the supernatural, Like we talked about X-Files, Like that kind of stuff I like Now, granted, like like you can connect to, like that Right.
Katie Parsons:But you've never met an alien or a ghost.
Speaker 3:That I know of.
Katie Parsons:That we know of that we know, of and they might all look like Ted.
Dani Combs:Bundy, for all we know. So okay, so I so I did, I did read these books and I loved these books and I got the idea for this episode because, randomly, I don't watch a lot of TV, which I say on here quite a bit. One night I had like random time on a weekend night. Cooper, my youngest, was sitting in the living room with me and I was just scrolling through Netflix, like usually. What ends up happening to me? I don't know if you do this. I don't watch TV often, so when I do, I start the endless Netflix scroll where I'm like, oh, that looks good, oh, that looks good. Half an hour later I still haven't watched anything and then I don't want to watch anything. Well, we were on Amazon, prime, I think, or was it Netflix? I wrote it down, I don't remember it was either prime or Netflix.
Dani Combs:There's a documentary about these books. Um, because there was a lot of controversy surrounded these in the eighties and nineties, with them getting banned and such like that and so. But they, they're like a? Um, a touch point for a lot of people in our generation and even kids a little bit younger, because these came out, came out in the eighties and nineties, but they lasted. They kind of stood the test of time, especially because any book that is controversial kids will pay attention to Right. So if their parents are up in arms about it, they're going to you know if you're not supposed to be reading it, Correct.
Dani Combs:So it's a super interesting documentary and I'll shed light on that a little bit more. And I was like, oh my God, I want to find the OG books, Like I want the books that, the original ones, because you can find some that were printed in later years that don't look the same. And so I put on like this internet search Thank you to all our listeners who saw it in our socials and spread it around and somebody eventually told me like I was like I looked on thrift books which, by the way, is a website I buy used books at and they're like no, you're not typing it in, Right, Of course. Of course I wasn't, Because I was like they don't have the original. And they're like it's right here. And I was like, oh, I just didn't scroll in the correct spot, it's fine, I found them. So, anyways, I got the OG books in my hand, Yay.
Dani Combs:I did some research and, like I said, I'm going to read some of my faves later. So what's going to happen is, in this episode I'm going to share some history and background about the books and the author, but then I'm going to sprinkle in some scary story lore as well.
Katie Parsons:Okay, I just remembered.
Dani Combs:I have to grab my phone real quick because I also have a song to play to you at some point.
Katie Parsons:Oh my gosh. So in your notes it says Netflix, by the way. So if the listeners are wondering, yeah, it says random documentary I found on Netflix, but I think that might be wrong, but I don't know. Oh, I see. Okay, so it's still my, so you'll find it. And when you were saying, like they like you typed it in wrong or whatever this is, this is a very zennial thing too, I get. I get frustrated when search bars or even my autocorrect doesn't know what I'm trying to say when I do it wrong?
Katie Parsons:Yes, does that happen to you? I'm like, well, obviously I was trying to do this. And I'm like, why don't you understand? Like you should already know how to correct that by now. Well, and you?
Dani Combs:know I am the worst with autocorrect on texting Like it always sends weird words. Yeah, and I am the worst with it. I is terrible, yeah.
Katie Parsons:I to a tap class, t-a-p on Tuesday nights, where we literally tap dance, and for some reason, every time I try to tell someone I'm going to tap class, my phone autocorrects to rap R-A-P class and I just hit send and then later I get out of the class and someone who I texted before class, before I put my phone away, is like you take a rap class, and I'm like no, I really actually don't, but actually maybe, I mean maybe. And one of my kids was. I was like oh, no, that was supposed to say tap he, he. And she's like, well, I never know with you. Well, true, so I was like yeah, I mean I would know of any that exist.
Katie Parsons:So well, maybe it will Maybe stay tuned, Put it out into the audio universe.
Dani Combs:There we go. Okay, so you ready, I'm ready, all right. So let's start with some background first. So Alvin Schwartz, the author of these books. He was born in April of 1927. He passed away in March of 92. So not too long after these books came out he passed away. He was American author and he was a journalist. He wrote more than 50 books dedicated to and dealing with topics like folklore and wordplay, and most of his stuff was written for younger readers. Okay. So Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark is a series of three collections of short horror stories yes, children. Okay, all right. So the very first one scary score, not scary stories. What's that scary? Scary stories to tell in the dark. That's one. Right here. I'm showing katie the picture, okay, this one.
Dani Combs:The full title is well, maybe that it doesn't have the full title. Usually it says like well, anyway, scary stories to tell in the dark 1981. That's when this guy came out. Did you say 81 or?
Katie Parsons:91?
Dani Combs:1981. Okay, three years later, a sequel comes out, called more scary stories to tell in the dark.
Katie Parsons:Okay, okay, literally just has the word more yeah, and that was 1984.
Dani Combs:And then they had a third one come out Scary stories, three more tales to chill your bones. But that didn't come out. Scary Stories, three More Tales to Chill your Bones, but that didn't come out till 91. Okay, so 10 years after the original, because they were so popular. So here's the deal. The three books each have numerous scary short stories and Schwartz drew really heavily from folklore and urban legends as a topic of all his stories.
Dani Combs:So it's really cool. So even if you've never read these, some of these stories may feel familiar because they're like in your vernacular. Somehow. He would research extensively for all these books and he spent more than a year on each book, which is a long time because you can see they're not very long, right, yeah, okay, so some of the ways he did his research was he would go to university libraries and he would research there. He would talk to professors of, like American folklore, literature, stuff like that. He even would go and ask local people in cities and farmlands to tell them like local ghost stories, wow, yeah. And he even went to a boy Scout camp and had them tell him stories and he thanks them in one of his acknowledgments.
Katie Parsons:That's so cool. So, you know, just at the outset, because these are fiction. Well, you know, now you're saying they might be based on potentially true stories, some of them, but like they're fiction, let's just say these are fiction books on some level. Um, and fiction, you know, is great because you can kind of just make up whatever right. But some of the best fiction is grounded in real things right, so I think that's really cool and that he didn't.
Katie Parsons:Just it makes me wonder if I was like I'm gonna do this, like I would just go online probably yeah go to reddit or something. But now that I'm looking at this I feel very inspired, like actually interviewing people and traveling around. And I mean he got really into it.
Dani Combs:He was super and like you can look in the back of his book and I'll, I'll, just I'll hand you the first one.
Dani Combs:You can look in the back of the book and like the, but don't look too far into the depths of it yet because I'm going to have you look at something else in a second. Okay, so in all his books he has, like I said, an extensive list of all the sources he used, the people he talked to, places he went, and sometimes he even has, like, further explanations of the original folklore that he used to inspire a certain story.
Dani Combs:So like it'll say like the page number of the story title and say, well, this story is actually based on Native American folklore of the this thing and blah, blah, blah. So it's really cool that he had. He kind of took something and made it a new thing, right, but it still had its spooky foundation or whatever. And, like it says in the title, most of these stories are made to be read aloud. Like it says in the title, most of these stories are made to be read aloud.
Dani Combs:Okay, they're made to share and he talks about that in all the intros is that ghost stories are, are are traditionally told like around a campfire in the dark or with your friends, and some of the stories even have like actions for the narrator to do while reading, like in parentheses, it'll say scream at the person closest to you, like before you read it, oh my God. And then the chapters are even grouped kind of like into sections, like it'll be like jump stories, like these stories are all designed to make you jump and some of them are about ghosts, some are just humorous and funny and there's even some songs, katie, there's even one that was in the documentary, and also there has been a movie made about scary stories.
Katie Parsons:Okay, Well, I noticed, as while you pull that up, that in his acknowledgements he thanks his wife. Yes, for musical notations. Yes, and I wondered what that was all about.
Dani Combs:Yeah, so you'll see if you turn to the contents, turn to the to the contents and find the page that says the Hearst song.
Speaker 3:The Hearst song where are you Like?
Katie Parsons:Hearst like dead people.
Dani Combs:Actually, I think I know where it is. You do here, let me see. Nope, yep, I'll let you do it. Okay, well, I'll show you in a minute. I'm going to play it for you. Anyway, there is musical notation, okay, so you can. And then there was an artist who was on the documentary, who recorded it and he added some stuff and I'm going to play you his version. Just a few seconds of it, okay, okay, nice spooky song. So this is the melody that's in the book. It's coming Long intro.
Speaker 3:Sets the scene. Don't ever laugh as a hearse goes by, for you may be the next to die. They wrap you up in bloody sheets to drop you six feet underneath Sheets. To drop you six feet underneath. They put you in a pine wood box and cover you up with dirt and rocks. It all goes well for about a week, and then your coffin begins to leak and the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out. The worms play peanut on your snout, they eat your pies, they eat your nose as you begin to eat and close. Okay.
Dani Combs:Whoa, yeah, so those are the words to the song that's written in the book. Okay, and that's the little. It just has, like a couple bars of like the melody, and I'll show you when we get there. So, anyways, it's a very varied book, right? And like Katie's face while I'm playing this, her eyes are big.
Katie Parsons:It just kept going. It was like you're going to be the next to die, but also we're going to put you in this box and put rocks on top of it and that'll be okay for like a week, because then it will leak. And it just kept going and I assume it keeps going from there.
Dani Combs:The part that always sticks with me is the worms crawling the worms. So everything is very macabre, you know, and creepy. So here's the thing though the stories in a couple of the songs were not the only scary things in these books. Some people, me included, think the illustrations are the creepiest part. Right, I could see that. Yeah. So Schwartz, he actually handpicked a guy named Stephen Gamal, who was a very little known self-taught artist at the time, to specifically illustrate all the scary story books. And, Katie, I know you're not super familiar with these, so just go through and look at some of the pictures.
Katie Parsons:Well, I'm starting with the cover of the OG, yeah, and just kind of explain what you see. It's like an old barn in a field and two tombstones and a full moon. But then, like in the middle of the field, where maybe you would see like a big old tree, there's like a neck and a skull kind of growing out of the ground, like huge, like bigger than the barn, but it's a clown face and he has a pipe.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Katie Parsons:Wow.
Dani Combs:And somebody in the documentary, an artist, actually recreated that Like and it was really cool, that's so cool.
Katie Parsons:Anyway, I just randomly opened to another page and it's like an older lady, maybe in her 70 70s, and she's in kind of an old timey dress, in an apron, her hair's up in a bun and it says the dead man's brains, and she's holding a tray with what looks like someone's head, with it like chopped off at the top, almost like it's a bowl or something, but then there's this cross stitch on the wall that says home, sweet home. Yeah, so I mean it.
Dani Combs:The pictures are all black and white, right right, I sure said that except the cover has accents of color yeah, the cover has a couple, but they're all black and white on the inside.
Dani Combs:Yeah, and they're very detailed, right, uh-huh, they're very detailed, right, uh-huh, they're very detailed, very Like almost smoky looking, right, yeah, and they're very creepy, and some of them are pretty gory, like you haven't turned all the way to the one page that I'll show you later. So I think the pictures make the stories even scarier. Because here's the thing when you read a story and you don't have pictures, your brain creates the pictures make the stories even scarier. Because here's the thing when you read a story and you don't have pictures, your brain creates the pictures. Right, so, my brain may not create that spooky lady holding the plate. My brain might create something a lot tamer, but when you read this story and you see and you're thinking of her.
Dani Combs:This picture, yeah, and some of these pictures. Everybody who grew up reading these can remember the picture that is burned into your brain. Right, that from these books, because there's several that I can think of, but here we're going to talk a little bit about Stephen Gamal and his illustrations. So here is the thing. You can see why his pictures probably caused some controversy, because these are elementary, middle reader books, mm-hmm. So the books had their 30th anniversary in 2011,. Okay, for the OG book, harpercollins actually re-released all the books with new illustrations from an artist named Brett Helquist, from an artist named Brett Helquist, and these illustrations were generally regarded as more kid-friendly and not as disturbing as the OG ones. But that actually resulted in widespread criticism from fans of Gamal's.
Katie Parsons:Because it's what makes the books, and that's why you didn't want the reprints, right, I didn't want that because that's not what we knew, right?
Dani Combs:Mm, hmm. So, into 2017, the books were reissued again and this time they had the original artwork back Nice. And in 2019, they did have a movie that came out, and to coincide with the release of that, the books were re-released again and they took images from the film and put them in the book. Of that, the books were re-released again and they took images from the film and put them in the book, which, by the way, I watched the movie last week. I was a tad bit underwhelmed, and we'll talk about that later. So, um, here's some fun, uh, fun. Little interesting fact, though, about Stephen Gamal. He was kind of a weird guy, as most of us creative peeps are right, especially artists who like to do macabre drawings, right. So his career actually started growing right when the OG Scary Story book came out, and by 1989, he actually won a Caldecott Medal for illustrating the book Song and Dance man by Karen Ackerman. And, for those of you that don't know, caldecott medals are given to artists and children's literature for artwork that is included in children's books.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, so like when the Wild Things Are. I remember that's a Caldecott winner. Yeah, so it's a pretty big award, it's a big deal.
Dani Combs:It's kind of a big deal, but at the awards banquet Stephen gave like some kind of strange and kind of rambly speech that really confused the attendees and apparently is still talked about in the children's publishing world. And the funny thing was the Association for Library Service to Children saves and provides links to all past recipient acceptance speeches online, but his is nowhere to be found. I could not find it.
Katie Parsons:So what was weird about it? I don't know. I couldn't even find details about that. Hmm, so who knows, maybe he was just like had too much to drink.
Dani Combs:That's what I was thinking. As we all know, sometimes if you're not prepared.
Katie Parsons:You're not prepared, Although he probably knew or do they not know? They're going to win until they get there. He probably knew he was nominated, if he was there? Oh, I don't know, but even still, but even still. And if you're not a public speaker. You're like, okay, maybe I'll have a drink to feel better and he's an artist.
Dani Combs:Or he just, yeah, and that's weird, we just won't save that one Anyway, all right, so that was just a little fun tidbit I found. But let's talk some more about controversy with these books, because that's kind of the biggest thing that comes up for parents when you start talking about the scary story books. When you start talking about the scary story books, this scary story series is listed by the American Library Association as being the most challenged series of books from the 80s and 90s and the seventh most challenged from the 2000s. It also made the list again in 2012. Dang, so it is a frequent flyer. And it's all the books. All three, okay, yep, all three.
Dani Combs:So the complaints have typically centered on its violence, its quote unquote disturbing subject matter and the potential unsuitability for younger readers, as well as religious concerns because it's about life after death and et cetera, et cetera. Critics have called the stories I mean, some of them do are about murder and disfigurement and cannibalism, I mean. But here's some of the quotes. They've called them sick, repulsive, disgusting, not appropriate for children. Dang, okay, yeah, they just coming in hot hot with that. And of course, the nightmarish artwork by stephen gomel has also gotten huge loads of criticism for being children's books, and among some of the groups who attempted to have this book removed well, all three books from school libraries was mostly school parent groups, like local school parent groups, and there's a group called the Concerned Women for America. Oh boy, yeah, I don't know who that is.
Katie Parsons:I'm assuming it's kind of like Moms for Liberty Rob for those of you who know that group, if you know that reference.
Dani Combs:But defenders of the books have included the American library association and also the bulletin of the center for children's books, so they had pretty big backing on not taking these out of libraries. Okay.
Katie Parsons:Okay, and what was their like reason for saying they they shouldn't? Yeah, defenders of the books.
Dani Combs:They really just claimed they're aimed at middle school, middle age kids. So upper elementary, not like kindergarten, Right, Okay so, and I would say, I have a sixth grader and he's here. He's still in elementary school, but I think fourth, fifth, sixth grade, these are. I don't like to, I I'm, but I lean on the side of just read whatever you want as long whatever.
Dani Combs:But they said also Defender said that these stories kind of help children deal with reality by putting faces on what they're afraid of, because it talks about things like death and loss and things in the dark and you know all these things and they had in the documentary they spoke about that.
Dani Combs:They were interviewing librarians. Like you know, kids think about these things, whether you want them to or not. So pretending like they don't and just not talking about it doesn't take it away, yeah. So it's kind of like they were defending it by saying put it there as a story and leading open to discussion.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, sort of sort of like a teachable moment, yeah, like it opens the conversation. Then, well, mom, dad, teacher, whoever, what, what do you think about death? And then that you know, whatever your family or personal beliefs are, then that's when you can talk about it, I guess.
Speaker 3:I mean, so I also would say as a defender of the books.
Dani Combs:It's also imagination, and if your kids won't check it out, if they're not interested in it, you know what I mean. Yeah, so I think I get real nervous when people try and limit artistic expression, even for kids. Like, would I read this to a kindergarten at night? I wouldn't, but some people might and some can. I've met young children who are super into scary stuff.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, because it's imagination play. Yeah, I mean, I know young kids, maybe not kindergarten but elementary age, who like to go to Halloween Horror Nights. Yeah for sure, and they have a great time and they go with their family and it's a core memory and I mean I've never been. I would like to go. I think it'll scare me a lot but I've always been like I'm too scared but like some of my kids have gone with like friends and family, even middle school age. And you know, I think it really does depend on the kid and you know you have two kids, I have five, and like, what works for one might not work for another.
Katie Parsons:I'm thinking my youngest. Granted, she's only nine, but they're reading a book in class right now which is not a horror book or a scary book. But when she just doesn't like something that's happening like someone's being mean to someone or whatever she's all upset because her teacher won't let her go to the bathroom. When she doesn't like parts of the book, she's like I don't want to listen to that part because they're reading it out loud. I know it's so hard because it's like well, I understand the teacher not wanting you to leave and so, but but then that's a teachable moment where I can be like well, the reason she's reading you this book is because this person is facing adversity and blah, blah, blah and. But it is kind of interesting how different people perceive books. Yeah, different ways. I think it's.
Dani Combs:I mean, when I checked these books out of the library I was, you know, a little older, elementary. Now I'll talk about one of his that I checked out, younger but, irene, I checked him out and I was scared.
Dani Combs:but I wanted to be scared, right Cause it was entertaining and fun and imaginative, right, and I I think it's tricky cause, like you said, every kid is different. So I I really feel like that is a parent decision, not a school decision. And I do think, with public education, private schools are their home, the whole thing, and you know, public access to books, that's that is a personal decision. As a parent, you have to decide with your kid, cause, like Caden was scared of everything, my oldest terrified, he never would have touched these books in sixth grade. He barely wants to see scary stuff. Now he is not into that and that's fine, yeah, right. But I think but that's my job, it's just like, I think, with sexual content as well, or violence or whatever is in the question, it depends on the personality, it depends on your parenting abilities and style, but I don't think there's any place for public institutions to prevent that. I don't think there's any place for public institutions to prevent that. I don't know what do you think about banning books.
Katie Parsons:I mean no, I mean I think definitely books shouldn't be banned. I do think maybe there's some that shouldn't be in elementary libraries, only because of what you sort of just touched on, the parental involvement, because parents do know their kids, yes, and so if, like my kid checks out a book, for example, I'm a pretty hands-on parent but I might not know that they're reading that book and the next thing, you know not even like that I'm worried about what the content is. But they're up every night with nightmares and I don't know why kind of thing. Do you see what I'm saying?
Katie Parsons:But I also think we have to put some faith in the professionals in our school libraries, the media specialists, who are always entrenched in this. They know what the books are about, they're well read themselves. We have to trust that they're going to hopefully like, if my nine-year-old, who you know is scared of a lot of things, is trying to check out one of these books, that that media specialist might be like let's check with your mom or whatever. But that's also putting a lot on them, I know. So it's hard. I don't know about book banning, I just think I don't know it's tricky. It's tricky, because anything that makes my parenting harder I don't want. I don't care if they're exposed to new ideas and stuff, but if they can't sleep because of some book they read, I'm not happy yeah.
Dani Combs:But then you know, I think too, like sometimes you know you grew up in a strict household for a few years. Back in the day I did not really and I'm not saying one way is right and one way is wrong, that's what I'm saying. But I think sometimes kids who grow up in a strict house, that might be their only access. Right, that's true, it's just a whole thing. So I don't. I'm not a fan of book banning. I do think it's okay to put on books like this is appropriate for ages, you know, for grades four or five, whatever fourth and up.
Dani Combs:You know, I know at Cooper School they have books that only sixth graders can check out or that only whatever. Now you can check out any. If you're in sixth grade you can check out anything pretty much. But if you're like in fourth grade, you can only go from these shelves, which is tricky too when you have advanced readers, because then they don't let them.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, that is tricky, he ran into that problem too.
Dani Combs:So it's a whole thing. Um wait, did I give you, did you give me the?
Katie Parsons:back.
Dani Combs:Okay, yeah, one okay, yeah, okay, because I'm gonna read in a second, but before I do that, um, so here we are. So we are. I feel like we're kind of all over the place with the book, like, should they be in the library, should they not? Um, and that's okay. I think it's not an easy question, but I think some of the nonsense that gets raised about it is kind of silly yeah, yeah, I would say it's probably like, like on practical level.
Katie Parsons:like I said, do I want my kids up with nightmares? No, do I oppose the writing or the illustrations as a parent. No, right, yeah.
Dani Combs:And okay, I did write down. It's in my paragraph of notes that I'm looking at now. The documentary is on Amazon Prime.
Katie Parsons:Okay.
Dani Combs:Forget what I said. It is called Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark. That's what it's called. Okay, anyway, the interesting thing was, I said, you know, alvin Schwartz passed away in the 90s. He had kids and his son actually went and sat down to talk with a lady named Sandy Vanderberg.
Dani Combs:She was like a leading voice in banning these from school libraries nationwide. Sorry, my mouth is doing all kinds of different things in my brain. Anyways, she was a PTO leader in a Seattle suburb. Okay, it was peak white lady and she was a big voice against them. And she was even on like national talk shows and stuff like protesting these books.
Dani Combs:And I mean her whole shtick was the satanic panic, inappropriate exposure, it's demonic, it's evil. That was her spiel. She tried to back it up and be like I'm not against the expression, I'm not against this, but not for kids, this doesn't need to be for kids, they need to not be in the library, et cetera, et cetera. I mean she wasn't a bad lady, those were just. That was her soapbox and that's what she was on. The interesting thing, though, like he wanted to meet with her, the son wanted to meet with her and just kind of explain like his dad's vision, his, his side of the story, like why he wrote these, why he thought it was important and just to kind of not really change her viewpoint but give her a different viewpoint. And so they sat down and talked and even after she talked with him she still felt the same and was saying the same things it was very interesting to see.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it was a civil conversation.
Dani Combs:Oh yeah, they were super respectful. They were both very kind. She had him at her house, okay, like they were in her living room, like how I think they were like had a beer or something or something and they were just talking, but she still was very like nope, I don't think they need to be in school library still. Okay, Okay.
Katie Parsons:But, anyway.
Dani Combs:so now that you've heard all the hoopla, I'm going to read you some stories.
Dani Combs:Okay, so I mean, there's so many good ones, but I wanted to read y'all some of the ones that scared the shit out of me when I was a kid, and I also think some these two will feel a little familiar. Okay, cause they're pretty popular urban legends, um, urban legends and, like I said, these were not banned in my house, not banned in my school at the time. I don't know if they ever were. After that I left. But you know, my mom was a horror fan and Stephen King, so she was probably glad I had these.
Katie Parsons:Anyway, here we go. So when you read I'm not going to talk because I just want everybody to like, like, I'm not gonna be like ooh or wow or oh, they're just'm just going to. Let you finish reading each one and not speak, and then we can talk.
Dani Combs:I'll read one and we'll chat. That's what I'm thinking. Okay, sounds good. The first one is called high beams and I'm going to show you the picture first, cause I need you need to have a visual. It's a young girl driving a car, looking scared.
Dani Combs:All right, there you go. All right. The girl driving the old blue sedan was a senior at the high school. She lived on a farm about eight miles away and used the car to drive back and forth. She had driven into town that night to see a basketball game. Now she was on her way home. As she pulled away from the school, she noticed a red pickup truck follow her out of the parking lot. A few minutes later the truck was still behind her. The truck was still behind her. I guess we're going in the same direction, she thought. She began to watch the truck in her mirror.
Dani Combs:When she changed her speed, the driver of the truck changed his speed, and when she passed a car so did he. Then he turned on his high beams, flooding her car with light. He left them on for almost a minute. He probably wants to pass me, she thought, but she was becoming uneasy. Usually she drove home over a back road. Not too many people went that way, but when she turned onto that road, so did the truck. I've gotta get away from him, she thought, and she began to drive faster. Then he turned his high beams on again. After a minute he turned them off. Then he turned them on again and off again. She drove even faster, but the truck driver stayed right behind her. Then he turned his high beams on again and once more her car was ablaze with light. What is he doing? She wondered. What does he want? Then he turned them off again, but a minute later he had them on again and he left them on At last.
Dani Combs:She pulled into her driveway and the truck pulled in right behind her. She jumped from the car and ran to the house. Call the police. She screamed at her father Out in the driveway. She could see the driver of the truck. He had a gun in his hand. When the police arrived, they started to arrest him, but he pointed to the girl's car. You don't want me, he said you want him and crouched behind the driver's seat. There was a man with a knife. As the driver of the truck explained it, the man slipped into the girl's car just before she left school. He saw it happen, but there was no way he could stop it. He thought about getting the police, but he was afraid to leave her. So he followed her car. Each time the man in the back seat reached up to overpower her, the driver of the truck turned on his high beams. Then the man oh boy, yes.
Katie Parsons:I see what you mean about like the urban legend, right? Yes, because we've heard like different versions of this, right.
Dani Combs:So these stories are in a category called other dangers, okay, so you remember I told you that category called other dangers, okay, so you remember I told you that some were jump stories, yeah, some were ghost stories. These are called other dangers, okay, and these are specifically stories that have been passed down through years.
Katie Parsons:Okay, Right and that almost feels like a true crime Right.
Dani Combs:And here's the thing he writes here. These are stories that young people often tell about dangers we face in our lives today.
Katie Parsons:Because, first of all, and maybe maybe, men feel the same way. But as a woman, a young woman, a 42 year old woman, whatever how scary is it when you think someone might be following you For real, it's terrifying, it's terrifying, terrifying, terrifying. And you, and what have we been told? If you think that drive to the police station like that's only happened to me a couple times, where, well, I actually have a ghost story associated with that, but I don't know if we wanted to hear that today or not but um, of someone following me, that, oh, I don't like I think may have been from a different um world but anyway
Katie Parsons:um, I, it's so. So that's what I mean about this story. It's kind of brilliant because it's scary on two levels because you're afraid for the girl because of this actual human man following her Right. But then the second part of that is that, like, that's not what she actually should have been afraid of. There was this other danger and if that other danger, there you go. If that other guy hadn't been there, she probably would have been overtaken or killed or whatever was going to happen with that.
Dani Combs:And I think it's interesting because it's like, the person you're supposed to be afraid of who's the truck driver is the person who was trying to save her. Yes, yeah. For some reason, these stories in this chapter stuck out to me more in my memory than the creepier, ghosty ones.
Katie Parsons:Well, and like I knew what was going to happen in that story when you were reading it. It's really well written and I liked it, but it was like, well, I know how this ends because, like you said, the urban legend of it and all yeah, yeah, so the next one will seem super familiar.
Dani Combs:Okay, okay, and we'll talk about it after. But like I said, these were the ones that stuck with me over the years, that I remembered the most, and there's probably lots of meaning behind that. Here we go. The next one's called the babysitter. It was nine o'clock in the evening. Everybody was sitting on the couch in front of the TV. There were Richard, brian, jenny and Doreen, the babysitter.
Dani Combs:The telephone rang. Maybe it's your mother, said Doreen. She picked up the phone but before she could say a word a man laughed hysterically and hung up. Who was it? Asked Richard. Some nut, said Doreen, what did I miss? At 9.30, the telephone rang again. Doreen answered it. It was the man who had called before. I'll be there soon, he said, and he laughed and hung up. Who was it? The children, asked Some crazy person. She said About 10 o'clock the phone rang again.
Dani Combs:Jenny got to it first. Hello, she said it was the same man. One more hour, he said, and he laughed and hung up. He said one more hour. What did he mean? Asked Jenny. Don't worry, said Doreen, it's somebody fooling around, I'm scared. Said Jenny About 1030, the phone rang once more when Doreen picked it up.
Dani Combs:The man said pretty soon now and he laughed why are you doing this? Doreen screamed and he hung up. Was it that guy again, asked Brian? Yes, said Doreen, I'm going to call the operator and complain. The operator told her to call back if it happened again and she would try to trace the call. At 11 o'clock the phone rang again. Doreen answered it Very soon now the man said and he laughed and hung up. Doreen called the operator Almost at once. She called back. That person is calling from a phone again. That person is calling from a phone upstairs. She said You'd better leave, I'll get the police. Just then a door upstairs opened. A man they had never seen before started down the stairs towards them as they ran from the house. He was smiling in a very strange way. A few minutes later the police found him and arrested him. I love that I messed that up right on like the key point. Sorry, everyone. My bad.
Katie Parsons:So that's like the call is coming from the house.
Dani Combs:Yeah, Anybody remember that movie? And he he even references it in the back.
Dani Combs:When a stranger calls it was made in the 70s. Oh, creepy AF Scarred me for life. Also, the reason why this story, I think, is it could never happen like this today, mm-hmm, where they're calling from the same phone line Right. Where they're calling from the same phone line, right. They could call from a cell phone right in the house or whatever, and it was hard to trace calls before caller ID before like all this technology. So like that was so scary when back in this time, to think somebody could call you and be in the house and you wouldn't know.
Katie Parsons:Yeah Right, it's really scary, and I like the setup of the hour by hour, by hour, because then at the end you realize the person's been there for hours.
Katie Parsons:That's the creepy part. That's really scary. It's not like they just walked in and they're just chilling watching TV. I mean, I was trying to rack my brain and I don't remember right now. Maybe listeners will remember I'll'll circle back. But there is a true crime story like that, basically in a farmhouse, and when they like investigated it later but it didn't end well, um, like, the parents tried calling to check on them a few times, didn't hear, get there, everyone's dead, including the babysitter. And um, they ended up like realizing there had been calls throughout the night when they do the investigation, and it was like, you know, 50s or 60s, like where phones would have been like this.
Katie Parsons:Maybe that's the origin. I'll look it up and it was like really scary and it ended up being some like local person that was like stalking the babysitter and he had been making creepy prank calls to like women all over the sit-out Prank calls, like he was creepy and evil, like saying like sexual things and stuff. When they finally figured out who it was and people had been calling and complaining about it but they couldn't figure out who it was. I don't think he was in the house though that's not what happened but he like broke in and like after calling from somewhere, else I don't like the true crime Katie.
Katie Parsons:I'm just telling you. You took it to another level. I will, I'll figure out which case that was. No, I don't want to know If any of our Okay. Well, you can, I'll tell you which one it was. I basically just told you the whole case. I know it doesn't matter who it was or when it was no-transcript.
Dani Combs:In 81. Alvin schwartz published a book specifically for younger elementary readers in 1984 and this it's an I can read, easy reader book, okay, and it's called In a Dark, dark Room. And he used a different illustrator, don't worry, called Dirk Zimmer. So, katie, don't read any of the stories, just peek through the pictures and explain how different the pictures are in this one. Oh yeah.
Katie Parsons:Well, first of all, they have color. Yeah, they're all color and they're bright colors, so like pinks and yellows and greens and the scary quote unquote, scary things like the skeleton is even looking not too scary. There's like a pirate. It's kind of goofy, scary looking. Yeah, it's cartoonish, yeah, very cartoonish, like I guess I could see if I was a younger kid. Like this would be a little bit scary, but it definitely is more approachable for younger readers.
Dani Combs:For sure, yeah. So this is the one that I remember scaring me the most in my younger years. Okay, Interesting when I was in elementary school in the 80s, you know 85, 86, 87, that's the one I remember scaring me most Cause. I would check that out Like cause. It's an easy reader book.
Dani Combs:So, you're supposed to check it out in kindergarten for a second yeah, second grade. While you're, you're, reading is developing, and I am going to share two of the stories that I still distinctly remember, even more so than the ones I just read, and they still freak me out, okay, okay, still scare me. So here we go. Are y'all right? All right?
Dani Combs:And then I'm gonna, I'm actually gonna share with you in the back he even in this one he shares, like the origins of some of the stories. Cool, so, even for easy readers. So here we go, everyone. So in a dark, dark room. The very first story, who? This is like a cultural touch point again is the green ribbon. Katie's already shaking her head. So the picture is a little girl with a green ribbon tied around her neck. Once there was a girl named Jenny. She was like all the other girls, except for one thing she always wore a green ribbon around her neck. There was a boy named Alfred in her class. Alfred liked Jenny and Jenny liked Alfred. I'm going to show Katie the picture of Jenny and Alfred.
Speaker 3:She's on a swing.
Dani Combs:One day he asked her you wear that ribbon all the time. I cannot tell you, said Jenny. But Alfred kept asking why do you wear it? And Jenny would say it's not important. Why do you wear it? And Jenny would say it's not important. Jenny and Alfred grew up and fell in love and one day they got married. Here they are.
Katie Parsons:Oh, she's still got the green ribbon on, that's right, okay, okay.
Dani Combs:After their wedding, alfred said now that we are married, you must tell me about the green ribbon. You still must wait, said Jenny. I will tell you when the right time comes. Years passed, alfred and Jenny grew old and one day Jenny became very sick. The doctor told her she was dying. Jenny called Alfred to her side. Oh yeah, there's a picture of Jenny and her sick bed. Alfred, she said, now I can tell you about the green ribbon. Untie it and you will see why I could not tell you before. Slowly and carefully, alfred untied the ribbon and Jenny's head fell off. See that picture right there. That picture there's like. So it's Jenny's head on the ground, her fingers are like laying over the bed, and there's a black cat.
Katie Parsons:And there's a black cat Because, of course, let's just make it like slight, let's elevate the spooky slightly with a black cat, okay, okay, so that's like you know that one. That's the story that a lot of people know. So, juniper Tree, which is a Grimm's Brothers fairy tale yes, and you know the Grimm's ones are, they're dark like all of these that one's the one of the lesser known ones, right, like we know the Little Mermaid, we know Cinderella and all these things, but that one I was in a stage production of it several years ago. And there's a scene similar where the evil stepmother because, of course, coming from a stepmother, it's not my favorite trope, by the way ends up like inadvertently, like killing the daughter, I think, but it might have been the son and like decapitates him, like this was a stage play, y'all, yeah, and to hide it puts a green ribbon, ah, until I think it's the son. And then the daughter comes to, like play with the son and thinks that she's the one that did it, and then she like cooks him in a soup.
Speaker 3:And it's a whole thing.
Katie Parsons:Oh boy. So as soon as I saw the green ribbon I was like, oh, I know that, but I'm green ribbon. I was like, oh, I know that, but I'm sure it's had lots of other but I think it may have originated with that grim story.
Dani Combs:Well it may. It says in the back um that the green ribbon is based on a european folk motif in which a red thread is worn around a person's neck. The thread marks the place where the head was cut off, then reattached how interesting. So similar I mean he doesn't elaborate in this one because it's for K through two.
Katie Parsons:Oh yeah, there's probably more, even beyond that. And I mean, and then obviously like the practicality of that, like a ribbon is not going to keep a person's head on, but it's the effect of it, it's the idea?
Dani Combs:Yeah, I had. I remember even as a kid, remember even as a kid, like having so many questions. Yeah, like what about did she wear it when she took a bath? Like did she ever wash it when they got married? Like he wasn't, like, hey, you might want to take the ribbon off.
Katie Parsons:Right, yeah, like even as that's interesting because as an adult, of course, I think all those things. But that's interesting that you said you had those questions as a kid. I was a weird kid, you know this no, I mean I just like I was a weird kid, you know this. No, I mean I just like probably other kids did too, I'm sure yeah.
Dani Combs:And I think that there could be so much fan fiction written on these, and there probably has been. I haven't delved into that corner of the internet but there probably is tons of fan fiction that could go into all these things. But anyways, okay, so here that was the one one, and I'm sure a lot of listeners out there are like oh my God, yes the green ribbon, but another one that stuck with me from this book is the Night it Rained.
Dani Combs:Ooh, I don't think I know this one. Okay, well, it'll sound familiar. Okay, it was late at night. I was driving past the cemetery when I saw a boy standing in the rain. Do you want to ride home? I asked yes, please. He said I live on Front Street next to the school. I handed him my old sweater. It's cold tonight, I said, and you are wet, you better put this on. After that we did not talk. When we stopped at his house I said keep the sweater, I will get it tomorrow. What's your name, Jim? He said Thanks for the ride. Oh, I'm not showing you the pictures Pause.
Katie Parsons:Pause. What does Jim look like? Because it's important, I know.
Dani Combs:Sorry, sorry, k2. K2. Sorry, okay, there's Jim. Jim is a little boy. He's standing on the corner, okay. And then here he is getting dropped off at his house. The man is in a red car. Sorry, how could I dare? Horrible storyteller. All right, I stopped for the sweater. The next day and a woman came to the door. Is Jim at home? I asked. I've come to pick up my sweater. She looked at me in a strange way. It must have been another boy. She said Jim is our son, but he's been dead for almost a year. He's buried in the cemetery. I told her how sorry I was and I left. I didn't know what to think. So here he is at the door, oh boy, okay. The next morning I went to the cemetery. I wanted to see Jim's grave. Lying across the grave was my sweater.
Katie Parsons:I didn't know that one.
Dani Combs:I've never heard that one yeah, oh, I didn't know that one. I've never heard that one. Yeah, so this story is based on variants of the widespread folktale the Ghostly Hitchhiker. Okay, so sometimes it's a woman you know in a wedding dress, Sometimes it's, but the story is always you pick up somebody, you drop them off and then you realize.
Katie Parsons:Right. And then later, when you loop back for whatever reason, if someone tells you, oh, they've been dead, however long, or you get to the house and it's like burned down. Yeah, so there's lots of and they're gone or something. Okay, that's a pretty prevalent. That was a good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah I like that one.
Dani Combs:So those two now burned into my younger kids memory. So the second and third. So that was for the younger readers, Okay.
Dani Combs:But then he came out with two more additions to the scary stories, to the original, yeah, to the OGs and, honestly, the second and third scary story books. I I at first didn't remember reading as much, but as soon as I started reading them again, as like recent memories of the stories came back Right Like I remember the other one I remember checking out and I was like I don't remember. But then as soon as I started reading them I was like, oh, yeah, so I have three stories to read you, okay, okay, oh, my gosh, yeah, and these are the ones with the creepy Katie's like hiding in her.
Katie Parsons:I am.
Dani Combs:Hold on, I got to pull it tighter. Okay, her, like you're doing so great, you're so brave, so good, you guys, okay. So the first two are from the sequel more scary stories to tell in the dark, okay. And the first story I'm going to read you let me turn to. It is called the Bed by the Window. Okay, here's the picture. All you see is like a dilapidated brick wall with a shadow of a person in a bed. Yes, that's all you see, and we'll talk about it after I read it. Here we go.
Dani Combs:The three old men shared a room at the nursing home. Their room had only one window, but for them it was the only link to the real world. Ted Conklin, who had been there the longest, had the bed next to the window. When Ted died, the man in the next bed, george Best, took his place, and the third man, richard Green, took George's bed. Despite his illness, george was a cheerful man who spent his days describing the sights he could see from his bed Pretty girls, a policeman on horseback, a traffic jam, a pizza parlor, a fire station and other scenes of life outside.
Dani Combs:Richard loved to listen to George, but the more George talked about life outside, the more Richard wanted to see it for himself. Yet he knew that only when George died would he have this chance. He wanted to look out that window so badly that one day he decided to kill George. He is going to die soon anyway, he told himself. Difference would it make? George had a bad heart If he had an attack during the night and a nurse could not get to him right away. He had pills he could take. He kept them on a bottle on top of the cabinet between his bed and Richard's. All Richard had to do was knock the bottle to the floor where George could not reach it. A few nights later George died, just as Richard had planned he would, and the next morning Richard was moved to the bed by the window. Now he would see for himself all the things outside that George had described. After the nurses had left, richard turned to the window and looked out, but all he could see was a blank brick wall.
Speaker 3:Ooh.
Dani Combs:Right, yes. So the reason I like this story is lots of reasons, but it reminds me of, like an old Twilight Zone episode, where it's creepy in one way because, like, obviously he's going to, like, kill his friend, but then the meaning of it is even more profound, right, like, he wants this thing, he's greedy, he does something bad and then he's like, yay, and then the rest of your life you're just staring at a brick wall.
Katie Parsons:Right, right, kind of like that's what you get. Yeah Dang, I love that one.
Dani Combs:Yeah, I like stories, that like have like little lessons too.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, Like don't be greedy. And like kill your roommate, I guess, even if he's old and has a bad heart, and on the flip, side.
Dani Combs:It really spoke to his roommates like positive outlook.
Katie Parsons:Well, that's what I was going to say, because what was the roommate seeing? That he wasn't.
Dani Combs:I think he was just creating things for his friend's benefit.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, okay, I see that.
Dani Combs:You know what I mean. That's what I think. That's my interpretation of the story. Okay, and I think it just shows the juxtapositions between the two personalities. Like this guy was trying to, even though all he saw was a brick wall. He's trying to create this world. So his friend thinks all these happy things. Hey, there's all these happy things out there.
Katie Parsons:Yeah.
Dani Combs:Instead of laying in the bed like well, I'm just staring at bricks. Today again like he turned it into something different interesting?
Katie Parsons:or is the interpretation that the guy did see all that right and then whatever fate, fate the universe, whatever gave him a brick wall because that's what he deserved, or that or that? Okay?
Dani Combs:Interesting and a lot of the stories, most of the stories I don't want to say all, but a lot of the stories in here have kind of open endings, right. So you're supposed to kind of think which I like, it's like critical thinking kind of like ooh, but what now? Or they kind of abruptly end like that and that's it, kind of like ooh, but what now?
Katie Parsons:Or they kind of abruptly end like that and that's it, like you don't know why, and there's no follow-up paragraph. That was like his friend could see it. Because of this, yes, but because of his black, evil heart, he was doomed to a brick wall. Like you don't even get that. It's just like he looked and there was a brick wall, the end. Yeah, yeah.
Dani Combs:So I like that I think that's good for kids, too, with critical thinking. I think that's good for kids, too, with critical thinking, you know, and creative minds. So this one is a little little different. So I'm going to read it and then we'll talk about it. Okay, okay, so this is called a ghost in the mirror. This is a scary game that young people sometimes play, trying to conjure up a ghost in their bathroom mirror. Many don't really believe that a ghost is going to appear, but they try to raise one anyway for the fun and the excitement. I'll show you the picture, sorry.
Katie Parsons:Okay.
Dani Combs:It's a broken mirror with a scary face. Okay, some are willing to settle for any ghost, but others have a particular ghost in mind. One of these is a ghost named Mary Worth, who also is known as Mary Jane and Bloody Mary, who also is known as Mary Jane and Bloody Mary. She is the heroine of an old comic strip, but some say she actually was a witch who was hanged at the infamous witch trials in Salem, massachusetts, in 1692. Another of these ghosts is La Llorona. Am I saying that right? Look at it. Can you see Llorona? L-l-a-r-o-n-a. La Llorona, yeah.
Katie Parsons:I think so.
Dani Combs:The weeping woman who wanders the streets and cities and towns from Texas to California and throughout Mexico looking for her lost child. Still another is Mary Wales, a young woman who was supposed to have been killed in a car accident in Indianapolis, indiana, about 1965. Her ghost is one of the vanishing hitchhikers that we were talking about. It is said that again and again she thumbs a ride home in a passing car, then vanishes before she gets there.
Dani Combs:Here is how ghost hunters try to raise a ghost. Number one they find a quiet bathroom, close the door and turn off all the lights. Number two while they stare at their face in the mirror, they repeat the ghost's name, usually 47 times or 100 times, what I don't know If any ghost will do. They say any ghost in place of a name. If they do manage to raise one, its face will slowly replace their face in the mirror. Some say a ghost is likely to be angry at being disturbed. If it gets angry enough, they say it will try to shatter the mirror and come right into the room. But a player can always turn on the lights and send the ghost back to where it came from, and when that happens the game is over.
Katie Parsons:So do you remember doing this? I remember Bloody Mary, yeah, but I feel like it was only three times that you were supposed to say it.
Dani Combs:I remember playing Bloody Mary and I feel like we did that before I read the story in this book. But I feel like we did all the things. We turned the lights off, you look in the mirror, you say mary three times and then scare yourself and scary stuff happens or she appears.
Katie Parsons:I mean, she never did.
Speaker 3:Maybe we need to say I'm not doing it or a hundred, I'm not doing it, but also a quiet bathroom.
Katie Parsons:What's that? I know it's like you need a quiet bathroom. I'm like I don't what. Well, that doesn't. I'm safe yeah.
Dani Combs:I'm safe, you guys, I know I. Just the reason I marked that one is because I knew you would remember playing that I did. And I can't even tell you how many sleepovers that we scared ourselves half to death?
Katie Parsons:Oh, definitely. Between that and the light is a feather stiff as a board. Yes, and it's like you that you think they're levitating, but really everyone's just lifting up this person. I mean, I'm not and I'm not making light of that stuff. No, I'm not. They're certainly like, I'm making light of kids, just everyday kids, thinking they can like conjure that Right. Do those types of spirits exist? Is it possible for people to levitate with the correct energy and people who know how to do that stuff?
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Katie Parsons:I think so, but you know a bunch of middle schoolers at a sleepover Probably not.
Dani Combs:Yeah, but also here's my thing. Like I said, I don't like to know factual like murder, people, things happening, which is ironic because the stories I read were like about that. But anyway, I don't know the answer. If there are supernatural things, there's a question mark, right, Right. But I also don't play with supernatural. I do not mess with that, I don't play. I did when I was a kid, but as an adult, you know, I don't mess with that. Like I, you would not have me going and doing a seance or doing Bloody Mary. There's ghosts at the theater we perform at, like legit For sure. Well, that people say and I will not go downstairs by myself in the basement, I won't play, I will not mess with that.
Katie Parsons:Well, I think that's just altruism, right? That's this idea that we're not sure, right? You're not saying, yes, absolutely this exists, but you're also saying, yes, absolutely it doesn't, so you're open To it being a possibility. Yeah, so you don't want to disturb that.
Dani Combs:Or whatever.
Katie Parsons:And I mean, you know it's funny Because there are. You know, every story, especially oral tradition, gets elaborated, onated on and passed down and la la la. But usually at the core of some of these, especially the ones that exist in lots of different places from lots of different people, are based on something. Yeah, you know so, like especially if you hear it over and over. Well, not so much now that we have the internet and stories are shared that way, but I think when they had to be shared, really orally or or books or whatever it, there's more of a chance, yeah, that the thing they're talking about happened somewhere in that fashion to someone. Yeah, you know, oh scary goosebumps.
Dani Combs:Okay, I have one more story to read, just one more, and then, when I'm done with this story, we're going to talk about the movie adaptation for a second before we're done. We're almost to the end of our episode, which is sad, but I have one more story. This is from the scary stories. Three more tales to chill your bones, okay.
Speaker 3:Let me show you the picture first.
Katie Parsons:Yes, this is one of the more macabre pictures, so explain it. Oh, okay, you know what she looks like. You know what I'm going to say? Uh-uh, the girl from the Ring, ah yes, who comes out of the well, yeah, that's what I'm looking at Like a more abstract picture of her with, like, the long dark hair and this distorted face and the long face, yeah, and she looks like she's in a like permanent state of shock or trauma. Okay, on her face.
Dani Combs:What else do you?
Katie Parsons:notice, is there something on her face, uh-huh, okay.
Dani Combs:What is that? Just remember that, you'll see. Okay, okay, just remember that, all right. So this story is very short. It is called the Red Spot. Okay, all right. While Ruth slept, a spider crawled across her face. It stopped for several minutes on her left cheek, then went on its way. What is that red spot on my cheek? She asked her mother. The next morning it looks like a spider bite. Her mother said It'll go away, just don't scratch it. Soon the small red spot grew into a small red boil. Look at it now. Ruth said it's getting bigger. It's sore. That sometimes happens. Her mother said it's coming to a head. In a few days the boil was even larger. Look at it now. Ruth said it hurts and it's ugly. We'll have the doctor look at it. Her mother said Maybe it's infected. But the doctor couldn't see Ruth until the next day. That night Ruth took a hot bath and as she soaked herself, the boil burst Out, poured a swarm of tiny spiders from the eggs their mother had laid in her cheek.
Katie Parsons:I've heard that one before. I've heard like or versions of that, yeah, so okay.
Dani Combs:Oh, that's terrifying weeks ago I had a monstrous zit on my cheek, that which is still there. I still have a scar like marking from it. It's like a marking yeah, it is like a mark and I'm like, oh my god, what if?
Katie Parsons:what if it's a spider egg nest?
Dani Combs:and it's what if? What if there's something burrowed in my face?
Katie Parsons:Right, well, and I think that that's so scary because, first of all, people, a lot of people, are scared of spiders anyway. Same Me, like like Dani, uh-huh, and I think too. So, first of all, I am that mom Like every time my kids come to me, they're like, oh my God, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, eh, it's probably a bug bite. The next day it's bigger. That happens sometimes Like every line she had. And then, finally, I would probably be like, all right, let's get an appointment but not till tomorrow.
Katie Parsons:You know, like I was like oh yeah, that is like I mean in every parent listening it's probably like yeah, exactly, I mean stuff so scientifically something like that could happen. Right, yeah, it could.
Dani Combs:So that's the scary part too. And then the ending of the story. You don't know what happens and you're like is she okay? Does she live? How many spiders was it? Was it like? What does that mean? Like did her face explode?
Katie Parsons:Did they just crawl out and they're done, right Like what happened after that. Yeah, when she's in the bathtub, did they all just drown, right Like what happened. Anyway, that one was bad.
Dani Combs:So that was my last one I was going to read, because you could see why it burned itself into my memory. So let's talk about the movie adaptation really quick. This is where I got confused. You can stream the movie on Netflix, okay. Okay, the movie version is on Netflix. The documentary is on Amazon Prime. Okay, all right. So the title of the movie is Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark. They were not messing around, but it was based. They used all three of the scary story books for the ideas in this movie.
Dani Combs:It was done by my computer, just went to sleep, sorry. Director Andre Ovidal and producer guillermo del toro, you all may know, yeah, um, he directed and produced hellboy, the shape of water, the? Um, he did a version of pinocchio not too long ago and a movie called nightmare alley. So anyways, um, you can stream this on netflix right now and I going to read you the summary. Like I said, I was like kind of underwhelmed. It was kind of disappointing for me. But anyways, here's the summary. The shadow of the Bellows family has loomed large in the small town of Mill Valley for generations. It's in a mansion that young Sarah Bellows turns her tortured life and horrible secrets into a series of scary stories. These terrifying tales soon have a way of becoming all too real for a group of unsuspecting teens who stumble upon Sarah's spooky home.
Katie Parsons:Okay, so she writes the stories yeah.
Dani Combs:But the summary of it kind of doesn't really tell accurately. So basically it's about these teenagers on Halloween who go into this haunted mansion. They find this book Okay and it's the book that they realize this Sarah Bellows character wrote. Her family tortured her and locked her away and she wrote these and then she ended up in an insane asylum. Okay, they find this book and one of the girls in the group of kids is a writer. Like, she is a writer, she. She writes all the time and she starts reading the book. As she's reading the book, stories, new stories start to appear and they happen in real time, so scary stuff starts happening to each one of her friends.
Katie Parsons:I mean on concept, that's a pretty good concept. Yeah, so it started off.
Dani Combs:I was like oh, this is going to be. And so I was like how are they going to take all these stories that are about very different things and put it in a movie? So that's kind of how they did it, Okay.
Speaker 3:So like the red spot happened to one of the kids, older sister.
Dani Combs:So did spiders come out of her face?
Katie Parsons:Yes, and I would say that visual was perfection.
Dani Combs:Okay, that that was perfection. Um, I felt like the young. The young talent in the movie was great. Some of them looked familiar to me, but like nobody I knew. This movie was made in 2019. Okay.
Speaker 3:So, like.
Katie Parsons:I said I am not other things.
Dani Combs:Yeah, I'm not up in current on like TV shows and stuff like so they could be young actors. They were great. The vision, though, on how to incorporate these stories continuously throughout the movie Not great Okay. I just didn throughout the movie. Not great, okay.
Dani Combs:I just didn't feel like it was great. I thought it was just kind of meh, like the premise sounds cool, but then it just kind of fell apart. I just I didn't like it and I didn't feel it didn't feel like super original, like the books felt so original, even though they were based on on folk folklore and like urban legend tales. It just didn't. It didn't have the same essence as the books did, in my opinion. But here are the things I did think were great.
Dani Combs:How they brought some of the illustrations to life Like I said with the red spot were really good. There was another one with this creepy lady who I don't even remember the name of the story. They did a great job with that. They have this one story about a scarecrow that comes to life, and they did really good with that visual. So I would say how they brought some other artwork to life was great. They did have the her song, nice, and it was playing in a music box. Oh yeah, yeah, just the music, not the words. Okay. So I liked that, um, and actually there wasn't a lot of like blood and gore for it being a scary movie. There was some violence, but there wasn't a whole lot of like like blood and gore. Like when the kids disappear, they are gone, they get snatched and they disappear. They one of them disappears into a thing Like they kind of eat them in this hug. It's very creepy, I know, I know it's creepy, so I did. I did like those things, but as a whole, creepy.
Katie Parsons:Um, so I did, I did like those things, but as a whole wah-wah, I wonder if some of that is kind of what we've been talking about today, yeah, where, yes, there were illustrations that helped your kind of guide, your imagination, as you were listening, but that I think that's different than a movie. That's being like it happened, happened like this, yeah, so when you're reading the stories and a lot of the things not explained in it too, you had to have that critical thinking and all of that. So when you're watching it play out in a movie and it went like this and it went like that, I think maybe that whole component of the wonder and the whatever that you felt in childhood wouldn't really exist in that space, maybe, yeah, and also they may just have not done things as well as they could have, but Well, and I do think as a bookworm, the movie is never as good as the book.
Dani Combs:It doesn't matter how, because there is just something to be said about imagination so much and my imaginations. Interpretation of what I'm reading on a page is gonna be different than what Katie's imagination is gonna be. So when you're watching a movie version of a book, it's the script writer and the director's imagination version, not yours. So I always think the book is better, always, it doesn't matter what it is. Some of them have translated yours Right, so it's. I always think the book is better, always, it doesn't matter what it is. Some of them have translated well Right, but I just the book's always better.
Katie Parsons:So, yeah, yeah, I can feel that I mean I saw um, where the crawdad sing movie first, before I read the book, uh, because like a daughter of mine wanted to see it and we went and I loved the movie and then I read the book and it did have more in it, but that was one where I was like I actually really liked the movie, but I read the book second. So I don't know, but there were a few things that were different. Well, you know, a decent amount more detail, for sure, because it's a book, oh yeah, yeah, but I was like, yeah, okay, I got the same vibe from the movie, but I had seen the movie already. So then the bad side of that is, when I'm reading the book, those are who I'm seeing as the characters and like the scenes, instead of my imagination being like, oh, I bet she looks like this, I bet the house looks like this, I bet the marsh, the swamp, whatever, looks like this.
Dani Combs:I was just defaulting to what was in the movie, which I you know. We have a rule in my house and that has been in action since my kids were tiny you are not allowed to watch the movie version of something if there is a book version. Oh, okay, you are not allowed to let me. You're not allowed to watch the movie version first is what I meant to say. You have to read the book first and then watch the movie. Yeah, so we did that with harry potter, we did that with percy jackson, we did that with diary of a wimpy kid like I'm trying to remember, interestingly enough, I read where the crawdad sings and I hated that book. You didn't like it, I hated it so I didn't see the movie.
Katie Parsons:I wonder if you would like the movie. Probably not. I did not like anything about the story.
Dani Combs:What you just didn't like the story. It just I didn't, Was it the?
Katie Parsons:writing itself or the storyline. It's been a while since I've read it.
Dani Combs:I read it because of a book club.
Katie Parsons:I was in.
Dani Combs:I read it and I was, of course, like it was so good.
Katie Parsons:I can't wait, I was like bye, I'm not going. You're like no, well, what's interesting is the ending of that book, is not how they do it in the movie. Oh, interesting, generally, yes, okay, but there's a little bit of a different twist. A little bit of a different twist, yeah, well, anyway.
Dani Combs:That brings us to the Speaking of the end, we went on too many rabbit trails. Today we stayed so focused?
Katie Parsons:Not really. We did a good job. I didn't even tell my ghost story. After show After show.
Dani Combs:All right, Ghost story on the after show. If you liked this episode you like kind of the spooky retro. Don't worry, we're going to have some more in October. We have such fun guests coming so many.
Katie Parsons:Oh, we're going to have, when we have them so maybe not every episode some audio from some of our listeners and past guests. You know y'all are usually great about messaging us or putting on social media your thoughts, so we've started asking people to go ahead and send us a voice memo with those thoughts, almost like leaving a message on an answering machine or voicemail, if you know about that. So we have our first one today. I think you'll recognize the person. If you wanna leave us a voice memo, you can contact us. If you know us in real life, just send us a text. Otherwise, you can contact us on social media or at our email, which is in the show notes, and we'll let you know how to send that to us to put at the end of the episodes.
Dani Combs:Yay. Well, thank you all so much for joining us today on generation in between, a Zennial podcast. If you liked what you heard, give us a like and a review wherever you listen. Please, please, please. That helps us greatly. And share us with all your friends of all generations who like spooky stuff and don't follow us on all the socials. We even have our very mediocre, not very active tick tock. Who knows how long that'll be going? And if you want to access our little after show episodes as well, and eventually some cool perks, that we're going to get to at some point, but for now, you get after shows, which is so much fun, so fun. You can find us on Patreon. Become a monthly supporter for like eight bucks a month or a dollar or whatever you want to give us. It's great, but until next time, listeners, look out behind you, okay, bye, bye.
