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Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Xennial co-hosts Dani and Katie talk about their analog childhoods, digital adulthoods and everything in between.
Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast
Dawson's Creek, S1 E13: Wake-Up Calls and Cliffhangers
Could you forgive a parent for disrupting your life and hurting your loved ones? If offered a life-altering travel opportunity -- could you pick up and go? Join us as we unpack the finale of Dawson's Creek's first season, "Decisions."
Tune in as Katie and Dani assign smiley and sad faces (and hearts and Xes) to the season finale episode of this teen classic.
Want to watch with us? We're rewatching it on Amazon Prime.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to our nostalgic or problematic series where we have reached the end of season one of Dawson's Creek. Wow, we made it. We made it to the end of season one. The last episode is called Decisions. Here is the summary An offer for Joey to study abroad forces her and Dawson to reconsider their feelings for each other. Jen's grandfather suddenly awakens from his coma. Wow, way to ruin that plot summary.
Katie Parsons:Yeah. It's like now you don't even have to watch it. I know, yeah, so like that's how it starts, right, that's the opening scene. No, isn't it, joey?
Dani Combs:okay, so I actually had. The first smiley face was joey and dawson are like foreshadowing cliffhangers at the end of the episode yeah, and then yeah, and then that, okay, okay.
Katie Parsons:So so was that the whole smiley, or did you have more to say about it?
Dani Combs:hello like what's that? It uh, no, yes, that was. Yeah, she. I just thought it was funny, because they're like talking about how annoying it is when shows end on cliffhangers, which is exactly what this episode did. Yeah, so, and they're like, but what if something? And then she's like it's a cliffhanger, and then everything gets back to how it was anyway, and he's like, but what if it doesn't? And then the end of the episode guess what? A cliffhanger which we'll get to, which we'll get to. Yeah, I did have another smiley right after it, because it says Gramps wakes up, because I cried, because he said bye, jennifer.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, that's what I wrote down, gramps saying Jennifer's name, yes. And just like the very top of my page says just so many personal feels, right, like you know from not to go too into the weeds, but like my mom doesn't say my name anymore, right, and if there is ever a time she does, I think like a year, year and a half ago, she did and it was so precious and so just like not just like waking up from a coma, which is amazing, oh yeah. And like seeing them cognizant and knowing where they are, but to say your name, yeah, it's just so powerful To hear it in their voice.
Dani Combs:Like my sister and I, you know, my dad passed away when I was 11 and I am 43., so a long time ago, right. So I haven't heard his voice in a really long time. A few years back, we were at my mom and stepdad's house for Thanksgiving, which we don't normally do. Our family is not one that gathers together often. Well, everyone like my, step, my stepbrother and his family were there.
Dani Combs:My family was there, my sister and her wife were there. My stepsister was not there, um, but for some reason we all were there and, um, they had some boxes that they had. I think I mentioned this before. Like, a lot of stuff got ruined in hurricane Katrina but we did have some stuff that was in storage that was untouched. But my mom has a lot of stuff. So does my stepdad. So we don't know sometimes the stuff they actually have. They don't know sometimes the stuff they actually have. They don't go through it and they're older, blah, blah, blah.
Dani Combs:Well, they found all these VHS tapes. So back in the late eighties, early nineties, my dad bought one of those giant camcorders and he loved using it for all the things. My parents were divorced at the time but anyway, they found all these videos that we were watching. That were home videos he took, and to all of a sudden hear his voice again was like jarring, wow, like my. You know, my sister and I remember sitting there, like it was. It was shocking because you forget, which sounds weird, but like you just kind of forget, and I don't know if that happens with your mom, because you still hear her speak. That's not your name.
Katie Parsons:Right. So that's an interesting thing I actually have on my phone messages. My mom left me that. It's one of those things where I just like not deleted and then at some point it's like, yeah, memory is full and it had been maybe like three years at the time I saw them. So I like saved them and like I've exported them to like other files, but they're actually on my phone so I can access them anytime.
Katie Parsons:And you know, because I talk to people like on my social media platforms about Alzheimer's and things like that and I actually have like a version of it where it splices a few calls together over the course of maybe like eight months and you can actually hear a little bit of decline, like when you listen to them back to back. But like the first one in there where she's like, hey, kate, you know telling me all the things, it's jarring, even though, like I can be there and she can say a sentence to me, it's not the same as like intentional speaking and calling for a reason and like all the things that go into leaving a message for someone about something you need to tell them, you know, and that always, like when I re-listen to those you know like I access them all the time they're on my phone.
Katie Parsons:It's a very jarring thing that that's the same person and it wasn't that long ago.
Katie Parsons:So I can totally see that. So just that simple and like what I've said this whole season I love most of their writing and just that storytelling that it could have been a moment that was like almost too much, like it could have been like a grabs her hand I love you so much, do great things with your life, I'm so proud of you. But it wasn't. It was like just saying her name and like a normal greeting and that by itself, to me, was so powerful and really set like such a tone for the rest of the episode, for all the storylines, but certainly hers and Graham's, yeah, so I thought that was good.
Katie Parsons:And then, you know, we get into this whole part where Joey asks what does she ask Jen and Dawson about getting a passport? And they're like what do you need that for? And Dawson immediately looks panicked oh well, you know, there's this scholarship for a trip to France. Whoever can't go because she doesn't want to, because of her boyfriend, which, by the way, is such a high school thing to do, although, although We'll get to that and, of course, like the 42-year-old mom in me who sees all these things, she's up against dad in jail, not a lot of money. No way, I'm like girl, go hack your bags and take your butt to France and she says something about how she has to. She would leave in two weeks and immediately. Dawson is already inserting himself into the narrative. I wouldn't say it's like trying to sabotage her, but trying to kind of put doubt in her mind why she shouldn't go, and I hated that.
Dani Combs:I hated it too. I had that as a frowny and I had in capital letters do not miss out on traveling abroad for a boy in capital letters.
Katie Parsons:Or a girl, or a girl, whatever.
Dani Combs:Like that is something I've never gotten to do is travel abroad for lots of reasons and circumstances. And I told my oldest, who's a senior, like Katie's oldest as a senior we were talking to a friend of his at the college. He's like oh yeah, john's doing this, um, this program where he can travel abroad and study. And I was like, if you get a chance to ever do anything like that, do it. You're traveling on the school's dime, it's organized for you, you have a place to stay, you're fed Go.
Katie Parsons:See the world.
Dani Combs:I hate that I have not had the opportunity to do that ever, Even you know, we were in the military for 20 years, Troy Seller World.
Dani Combs:I did not, You're right, I'm right. So, like everyone's, like, oh, you must just so you know Right. So anyway, I like that. I didn't like that. And I also ironically, we were just talking about my dad I didn't like when Dawson was talking to Joey I don't remember if it was in the school like right when they started talking about it, or later, and um, I don't like it. When she where he, she was like, well, what would you do if I went to Paris and he's like, oh, I'd probably kill myself. And he was like you know something painless, and I just, I really don't enjoy when suicide is made light of and again, this is the 90s, but that is problematic, it's problematic Also, it's just like because obviously he wouldn't really do those things.
Katie Parsons:That's the making light of it point. But like again, it's Dawson.
Dani Combs:Like Dawson, you have an opportunity to be like.
Katie Parsons:I will really miss you but cannot wait to hear about it. And I mean, what a shitty friend to be like. What a shitty friend. Make it about him. Exactly Make it about him, I don't know. Maybe in this final episode the Dawson stan is going to go away.
Katie Parsons:One thing, okay, so kind of in the same vein so these are like two kind of whatever Is when Bessie basically guilts Joey into going to see her dad. I didn't like that either. I did not like that. Like I get for the storytelling. You needed it, because there's a whole component where she has this moment with her dad that we'll get to.
Katie Parsons:But like having family members who are incarcerated currently. You know, I feel like I'm always the family member defending the children in that situation and saying do not make this child, yeah, go see the the family member or answer the phone when they call. This is their decision, not yours. It doesn't matter if it's their parent, it doesn't matter if it's their grandparent or their aunt or their uncle. They get to choose how they use their time and energy and if they are not at a point where they can talk to that person, they don't owe them that. It's not their fault and that's how I felt watching that scene. You know she's like well, we go every birthday and I went last birthday and you have to go this birthday. She doesn't want to go see her dad in prison. She's not going. Yeah, period, period. And I know for the storytelling she needed to. Well, I know, but I agree.
Dani Combs:When you have trauma of any kind, you should not force children to confront that in the way you think is proper, Unless there are some really scary things happening If they're harming themselves and you have to handle what's happening you know whatever.
Dani Combs:Or there's an abuse situation, they need to report something like that. But you should never force a child who's going through trauma to confront it because you think they should. And I mean not to keep. I don't know why my dad keeps coming up the first 10 minutes.
Dani Combs:My mom, um, when my dad died, I was 11, I was young, I didn't want to go to the funeral. I he had an open casket Memorial at our church and um, and then a closed casket, you know, burial or whatever. I didn't want to go to the church and my I was in therapy at the time and the therapist told my mom do not make her go. Good, if she does not want to go, do not make her go. And my mom was totally on board, so she found somebody to come sit with me. You know, while they went, and my mom got so much heat for that, while they went, and my mom got so much heat for that, for not forcing me to go. But somewhere in my little 11-year-old brain I didn't want to remember that Dad died in a really tragic way and I didn't want to see, but not like you would have seen it. But you know what I mean.
Katie Parsons:Yes, and I think too, particularly for family members. At a memorial or a funeral or whatever, everyone's kind of looking at you Right and not in a mean way. They're there to support you To be there for you. But to be 11 and be processing it on your own and then sort of have to be performative, is maybe good for everyone else, but not good for you. And doesn't matter as far as your dad you're not doing it for him. Well, correct, you know there. So I think about that with.
Dani Combs:Joey, like she's not going for herself, she's going because she feels obligated. Yes, and that's, and guilted, and guilted, yeah, and that's not okay, and that's not going to heal nobody. That's not gonna heal her, that's not gonna heal her dad that's not gonna.
Katie Parsons:I mean actually in the whatever, but yeah, well, kind of happened, but it does generally. In real life. The opposite happens totally and and I think bessie even said like well, he's your father that's like oh, that's oh, and I hate that I hate that too it's's like so Family does yeah, family does not make things obligatory.
Katie Parsons:But then I also had kind of like a meh or like what the hell when she's talking about what he's incarcerated for now? Granted, he was selling, but it was marijuana related, yeah right. And I was like this man is incarcerated and away from his family for freaking marijuana. We could have a whole lots of theories about that.
Dani Combs:I know that's a whole other thing, but that made me mad, I know, I know. Because, I was like did he kill someone?
Katie Parsons:Did he like he was caught with marijuana, which it sounds like it was a large amount of it and he was probably illegally selling it, but I was just like how awful. And, of course, obviously more common back then.
Katie Parsons:But that's still happening, yeah, drug infractions and people are locked up for years well for a lot of their life, low income and certain you know backgrounds of people and anyway, that's another episode. But I didn't like that either. But I did say that joey's dad is kind of handsome. I know they got cute dads up in here yeah, and like you know, like, like he looked like her, he did, he really looked like they did good with that.
Katie Parsons:They did really good with that and and just seemed very just like a kind face, you know, like the eyes, yeah, and I think you're meant to like feel badly that he's there, so he has to look like that, yeah, but yeah, the eyes, everything, yeah, I liked him as well.
Dani Combs:Well, I had another frown. Damn, we're going hard early. I had another frown like a problematic was when Jen and Graham are in the hospital and Graham goes on this whole thing about how he woke up because, god, it was like God's timing and then Jen's like, okay, but like he's responsible for this. But what about, like AIDS and kids getting hurt? Like he's just suddenly not responsible for that, and her only answer is we're not meant to understand. When I was in the church, that was always the thing that irritated me and I never understood that. Like so all the good things happened because you earned it by praying hard and being dedicated and God's good grace and all these things, but then the bad things it was just because we're not supposed to understand his plan, right, right, I am not hating on anybody's faith, okay, I just want to. I just want to put that there. But I understood Jen's frustration.
Katie Parsons:Yes, I actually wrote the prayer, stuff relatable, oh yeah, meaning like, yeah, that you're that. And again, not hating on anyone's religion, but part of the reason as an adult I left organized religion was because of the sort of don't ask questions mentality. Not all religions or particular churches or groups do feel that way, but at least the circles I was in that's how it was. Like you said, like something good happens, praise God. Something bad happens. Well, you never know what he's doing and it's like well, what about this, this and this? Or even you know, even like church leaders who got in trouble for stuff. Well, you know, we're all human and God calls us to to understand that and that is, he's the one that should judge. And I think just eventually I got to the point where I thought I'm just, I just really want to think for myself on these things now.
Dani Combs:Well, there are a lot of double standards and hypocrisy and Christianity as a whole. I don't care what branch you're in of. Christianity, yeah, and I can only speak on Christianity because I was one.
Katie Parsons:Right.
Dani Combs:So of various denominations, in sex or whatever, I mean S-E-C-T-S, and so you know that I understood Jen's frustration and I will tell you, when you go through a grieving process and you are a Christian person, you are like I was angry at God for a really long time. When I was a kid, my dad was very devout in his faith. He was very devout, very involved in like our church. He was very involved in the community. He helped build a free daycare for, like low income families at our church, which I forgot about until, like we were watching those videos. But and he's like anyway. So I'm like you know he had these battles with depression and I'm sure a lot of his prayer was save me from myself.
Dani Combs:So when I was a kid I was like, well, why didn't he? But then all these other people are just walking around doing you know so all of those double like, double standards and like, oh, just accept God's plan. It was all, and nobody when they lose a loved one wants to hear that plan. It was all and nobody when they lose a loved one wants to hear that Like that was God's plan. No, and like you know, I think that's what Jen was saying was like okay, well, is it? Was it God's plan for him to go into coma? You weren't saying that then.
Katie Parsons:Right, you know, right, like now that he woke up, it's his plan.
Dani Combs:Now, it's his plan, but then guess what Then he passes away?
Katie Parsons:and then what Then? What are?
Dani Combs:you going?
Katie Parsons:to say A hundred percent. Yeah, I mean that whole part was just very, very of that time, maybe because I was at age at that time and dealing with a lot of those things, but obviously still very relatable today, you know, depending who you're talking to, and that sort of thing. Yeah Well, what else do you have?
Dani Combs:Jeez, I'm pe. Should I even talk anymore? I had a lot of like like this was a sad episode.
Katie Parsons:It was, it was heavy.
Dani Combs:It was heavy, it was very heavy because then I also like I just had, like this wasn't a problematic or nostalgic thing, but I just had, like Pacey, when he was talking to Joey about his dad and you know he's got like this really messed up like relationship with his dad.
Dani Combs:His dad is pretty emotionally abusive and it just made me think like how hard parenting is in general. But if you have like generational trauma behind you, which he obviously does like, and then like Pacey's going to carry that into his next, and like you know, I think about like our parents generation just trying to every generation I feel like tries to do better if they can, and it's it just made me think like, and then like Joey's dad you know he's in he's in jail and like she's trying to get by without a mom and has a dad who's not there, and like that's going to affect her one day when she's a parent.
Katie Parsons:It's interesting to watch that as a parent, yes, and think about it, and think about it, and think about it, yeah, yeah. And he in that scene, pacey, has that line where he tells her that his dad was bummed, that he didn't do well in a sports event. Which is so arbitrary and dumb and that he overheard his dad tell his brother well, at least I have you. Can you imagine? Yes, Yuck.
Dani Combs:Yeah, I mean, I think we all can imagine how yucky that feels, how yucky that is, and it's weird because you know that whole saying of sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me, is not true? Yeah, because words carry weight Absolutely.
Dani Combs:And like my kids remember stuff that I've said and I don't even remember I've said it and it's like oh my God, I really said that to you. I'm so sorry. Yeah, you know, like, cause sometimes you say things and I mean maybe his dad said it and didn't mean it, or whatever, but that's what he remembers, hmm, yeah, anyways what else do you have?
Katie Parsons:Um, I just put a heart and I just said I loved when Joey gets in the rowboat and rose away. Why I just like you go girl. Oh, I don't know. I just love that part. Uh, like there's a couple times she does a whole like love that running, literally running away and rowing away from dawson in this episode. So this was the first one. Um, just I don't know. But she's just her own person. She's like I don't want to be here anymore. I'm gonna get my little rowboat, which I didn't call a canoe. I have made progress this this season. You guys, I have done it.
Dani Combs:Oh man, so we have to talk about the song, talking about Sad, that plays multiple times in the episode, that Sarah McLoughlin song. What's it? Angel, oh yeah, angel, okay. So all right, we'll be honest right here. Katie did not finish this episode until right before we were recording. Yes, I walk in. Today. We finished one episode, she goes. Okay, confession I have 10 minutes left of Dawson and I'm like that's literally when everything happens.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, she's like 10 minutes of the last episode of the first season of Dawson's. We can't just like skate by. You have to watch this.
Dani Combs:So watch this.
Katie Parsons:So of course that song comes on and she's like, of course katie's like of course that makes you remember the sad dog commercials? Yeah, the in the arms. Yes, what was that whole commercial for? Um, well it's. It's for the like humane society or something.
Dani Combs:It's all the like abused animals. I couldn't remember if it was for pita or for like.
Katie Parsons:I think it's for the ASPCA, okay, I think. Anyways, it was all over this episode, like literally all over, yeah it played like, and then later a different verse would play and then. But I mean I love that song and boy Sarah McLachlan was having quite a time during this time period. Like Adia.
Dani Combs:Yes.
Katie Parsons:Loved that song. I Will Remember you. She had another one in City of Angels, I think.
Dani Combs:And this was Lilith Fairtime too, Lilith Fairtime.
Katie Parsons:Headline and that song's great and they used it great in the episode. It's just it's had such staying power. I mean it's definitely nostalgic. It totally is 100% Like. You hear it and you're like know, yeah, that one I'll Be by. Edwin McCann was on there, the I'll be your crying shoulder. I love that one. Bless the Broken Road, which a lot of people I know, rascal Flatts did a version of that.
Dani Combs:I think it's a country song, but it's a girl singing it.
Katie Parsons:It's a girl I was trying to figure out if I could recognize the voice. I'm sure it's listed somewhere. It was on that Dawson soundtrack that I had. It was on that Dawson soundtrack that I had. It is yes. I wonder if it's like Trisha Yearwood or something.
Dani Combs:It kind of sounded like her.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, it sounded like her, who needs Google when you can go?
Dani Combs:to your CD collection and just look Well, because that'll tell me the exact one that was on the recording.
Katie Parsons:True, true, but anyway, yeah, that song Broken Rides.
Dani Combs:even though it is a country song, I still really like it. I love that song and I do not like country songs.
Katie Parsons:It's such a great message, so like if for some reason you haven't heard it, it's all about how the kind of stumbles in our life lead us to the good thing. Right, and like was God bless the broken road that led me straight to you?
Dani Combs:Yeah, Well, I just have like a whole page of sad things, not like problematic. Just I just wrote the word sad, sad, which we've talked about quite a few of them, but it made me so sad when Jen is just like so lonely. Sad when Jen is just like so lonely, she just needs to feel that attachment to somebody and something. You know her grandpa. She can't have it with him. Her and her grandma don't have it either, doesn't really have any good girlfriends around, and then she kind of doesn't have and she's trying so desperately to get just that feeling of a someone and it like broke my heart to watch her clinging to Dawson and he's so uncomfortable.
Katie Parsons:Yes, I actually said, because I was watching it while Dani was here, she's waiting for me, rage scrolling through her phone. No, I don't know that, she has to wait for me. I was cleaning out my email but rage scrolling through her email because of the email, not because of me. No, um, but yeah, I said wow, you know, his acting's really good here, because you see what you were saying, the sadness of jen, kind of juxtaposition next to his discomfort, disattachment, um, like, almost like. Oh shit, what do I do?
Katie Parsons:I don't want this girl in my room and this was a girl he would have loved, like I don't know what the time frame is two months, three months earlier I hadn't really thought about her loneliness. That's a really good point that you bring up. She's not with her parents and even her grams, while they kind of have that connection at this point in the season and in the episode, her gram's brain capacity is on one thing, oh yeah, which is the gramps who's in the hospital and maybe waking up, and then he's not doing good again. So like there's not a capacity there other than pray, and then they're arguing about that. So just wanting someone to see her, I know, and not to see her, but like want to be with her and want to comfort her and she doesn't have it. I know, dang, that is sad.
Dani Combs:It like broke my heart, and then Joey and her dad at the prison fence, 10 on sobs. I was crying Even when you were rewatching. I was like I had to not listen, I had to just be like was crying Even when you were rewatching. I was like I had to not listen, I had to just be like I'm not listening to this again, cause she asked him. She says do you really love me? Though, and I was like that is what every person wonders, especially when you are a teenager with a troubled family situation.
Katie Parsons:you think that constantly and she says that, like she verbally speaks, that and oh yeah, yeah, so like if you didn't watch the episode and you're just listening to us. She does go out for his birthday, but Dawson goes with her. Are they on like she goes back, though? Right?
Katie Parsons:right, so she goes once and missed visiting hours. So they spend the night together in a hotel like nothing happens, like normal Dawson bedroom stuff. But Dawson is like, oh, it's a first night away together and she's like why is he sounding like a vampire? Well, vibe though? And she's like you can just oh, it's a first night away. Sound like that though, oh my god, that would have been a flashback to one of the movies he watches, or a callback, but um, yeah so then they go back home, okay, fine, yeah.
Katie Parsons:But then she realizes when she's talking to pacey right and he's saying she says oh, but my dad this and that, or was it dawson who said to her? But did you tell him? I think it was pacey, he's like you. Did you tell him, I think?
Dani Combs:it was Pacey. He's like, did you tell him that? Yeah?
Katie Parsons:She's like well, I'm mad at him and I'm whatever. And Pacey's like well, did you tell him Like maybe you should? So they decide to go back? He like takes his dad's car.
Dani Combs:She's like hey, you stole your dad's car.
Katie Parsons:He's like borrow it. But yes, yeah, which I loved because the season.
Katie Parsons:He's like if it's family, you're borrowing it, you're not stealing it. So they go back and it is past visiting hours but Pacey, I guess, gives the guard 20 bucks, supposedly, and so she can't go in. But her dad comes out and it's cinematically really lovely, yeah, because it's dark, but not like pitch dark, yeah, it's like just past twilight-ish. And they're standing on either side of this chain link fence, kind of hands in the things, like they can kind of touch each other and having this conversation. I loved that too, but I thought it was and I know again, they needed it for the storytelling but I thought it was interesting when she's like do you really love me? And he's like, yes, of course, and it's beautiful, and then he's like but you know who really loves you?
Katie Parsons:Dawson Leary, I know, and you love him don't you and I was like okay, that was a little bit forced, like they're having this beautiful moment about them and now all of a sudden it's like, oh no, of kids these age, which we are, and you see someone who cares a lot about your kid, whether that's a friend, whether that's a romantic interest, whatever. Sometimes you do say something because you're like I see this, do they see it? You know whether they want you to get up in their business or not, but it was funny because I was like it was awkward.
Dani Combs:Okay, now we're talking about Dawson.
Katie Parsons:It was awkward. It was awkward.
Dani Combs:I agree. Well, my last thing, my very last thing, and then we can talk about whatever you have left. Okay, I remember this was nostalgic for me because at the very end I remember screaming when Joey and Dawson finally kissed, and Katie did, she squealed. I was like, oh, she squealed and they finally kissed. They're like god, attention, lord release. And they finally kissed. And the interesting was thing that I forgot when I finished the episode. I was like doing something and I forgot to stop it, and so it went right into the next episode, which was season one of season two. I mean episode one of season two, I mean episode one of season two, and that season, that episode, picks up right where this one left off Really.
Dani Combs:Right after the kiss Dang and they're like conversation and all that Cool, so so it really is a cliffhanger, and there's not a lot of shows that do that. Yeah, usually like it comes back in and there's been time, they've been dating for three months, but it started exactly at the kiss, same song, same everything, wow.
Dani Combs:So they must have filmed it. Because, like in advance, he hadn't, he didn't have his new season two hair yet, and like so he. They must have filmed it and then decided where to put it but anyway, that's actually really cool.
Katie Parsons:I didn't have much else, just the. I like the line where Joey says and this is that final scene in Dawson's bedroom. So first of all, dawson's acting, he's like just up in her face staring at her while she's talking, and it was so sweet, and. But that's the tension even more, because you're like clearly you want to kiss her, so just kiss her, but he just keeps letting her ramble on and on, and on, and on and on. And maybe she's doing that on purpose because she's scared of the impending kiss when she stops talking and she tries to walk away. So what I did like about the kiss was that he does kind of not not in a bad way, but kind of pull her back. She's going about, about to go out the window and go down the ladder and gives her a kiss. So at first she's like, okay, but then she kisses him back and I was like, okay, and now we're both kissing together and I really liked that and the lighting was good.
Dani Combs:Well, it was funny because the camera pans out and you just see their silhouette in the window and I was like oh, and now Jen's going to see them and Danny's like, no, no, that's just how it ends, and I was like, oh, okay, so now that we're here at the end, yes, we should have some final thoughts. So the question is, since the whole point of our series is Dawson's Creek nostalgic or problematic Is Dawson's Creek?
Katie Parsons:nostalgic or problematic? Hmm, I think nostalgic, but that's only if you could remove the accepted pedophilia storyline. I think it would be almost perfect. As nostalgic there's also all the homophobic jokes, of which there was another one in this episode that we just watched.
Dani Combs:They're pretty much in every episode.
Katie Parsons:They're in every episode. Like it took me a second. I was like oh yeah, I just heard that that is what was said. I think if those were not part of it I could easily stomach the rest of the small things. I think the black boyfriend's a bit much too.
Dani Combs:So I don't know, now that I'm thinking about it, you mean them making an issue?
Katie Parsons:Making an issue. Sorry, I was like this is the first one you listened to. That would sound a little jarring.
Dani Combs:No, the fact that they say that all the time I wrote that I said, like so many things from the 80s and 90s, it's both. For me, it's giving both and it's a weird place to live in. It is because I said the three biggest problematic things for me this season, because then there's a whole another part.
Dani Combs:it's another part yeah was obviously acceptable, the acceptable pedophilia with miss jacob storyline, that whole thing which was the first half of the season, okay, um, that was the number one. Problematic number two was the lack of cast diversity. Okay, number three was the homophobia, gay jokes which you just said. All those things.
Katie Parsons:Yeah.
Dani Combs:I mean, those are all really big, those are and those are substantial, those are big, problematic things that can totally ruin it. But looking at it through a different lens, I feel like it's evidence to watch it now that there has been a lot of growth and change since this show debuted in our entertainment. You know like, I'm not saying it's an excuse that it's a product of its time, like I don't want to say, oh well, it's product of its time, it's fine, just be problematic, leave it. Like I don't want to say, oh well, it's a product of its time, it's fine, just be problematic, leave it alone. Yeah, I don't think it dismisses it, but I think it does describe it. Yeah, you know like, and I feel like you can watch it and recognize there are problematic things when before maybe we weren't as aware and now we are.
Katie Parsons:I totally agree with that and I think that it's. It's certainly a product of the time and again, not an excuse. I mean, we watched, can't hardly wait, I know, and I said I haven't watched this movie in forever and, oh my god, right, didn't even notice or forgot about this, this and this, like right, this wasn't supposed to be a nostalgic or problematic until I watched it and so I think, like you said, this is a, this is sort of a product of that, but also we can see and we can see how it's advanced. Yeah, still not perfect, still a lot of issues, but people are talking about it way more. I will say some things that really impressed me, other than like it's a good story and you like the characters and the writing.
Katie Parsons:Um, again, I've mentioned this in other episodes they do a great job of presenting teenagers as independent, intelligent beings who make decisions, and sometimes they're not great ones, but they make decisions. They deal with the consequences of those decisions. Um, they're dealing with adult things in the best way. They know how, all of them in different ways. I mean even Dawson, who's, you know, got this like quote unquote, kind of picture perfect life His mom's having an affair that ends up being a very public affair and that's a very adult thing that he has to deal with. Obviously, joey's got the more obvious thing His dad in prison, mom died of cancer, all the things, pacey and his relationship, and then Jen and you know, basically being sent away from home. So but really like not showing them as victims, right, but showing them as like human beings doing the best that they can with what they've been given. Yeah, and I like that.
Dani Combs:I think that that's great, yeah, and I like that. I think that that's great, yeah, and I, I think too, for me there's so much nostalgia just in, like the clothes and the music and like the pop culture references, you know, and I it, and it also I wrote. I wrote down that it made me remember what a sucker I am for teen dramas from the past. Even when they are so messy, I am a sucker for them and I think that's the key piece is because it has so many things that were part of our own coming of age sprinkled in there, like, oh, I wore that outfit, a similar outfit to my homecoming dance.
Katie Parsons:And.
Dani Combs:I plucked my eyebrows to look like hers.
Katie Parsons:And pageants really were like that. I know First.
Dani Combs:Yeah. So I think there's, you have to. There's both. I think it's equally problematic and equally nostalgic, but you have to hold space for each. It's like the yin and the yang, absolutely, and I think you have to acknowledge and point out, like if there are younger generations out there or whoever watching, rewatching the show, it's important that you recognize what is icky when you revisit and why it's icky and why it's icky and why we've hopefully kind of evolved from there and how we can do better.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, and so, listeners, you may be wondering what's next. Well, we're not sure yet. We've got to sort of. We have a whole lot of ideas we do. We're probably pausing on Dawson's for this series Doesn't mean I won't go on and watch season two, but we have some other things, a nostalgic or problematic pipeline. I guess you could say that we are going to do and then maybe loop back to this because, as you mentioned, season two is a whole different animal.
Katie Parsons:Yeah, we have more characters come in more characters, more issues, we have another death, oh yeah, yeah. So we'll, we'll see, um, and if you I mean, like I said, we've already got kind of a little lineup of what we want to do. But if you have some ideas for nostalgic or problematic, even one-off things, like when we did Can't Hardly Wait, or whatever let us know, because there might be ones we hadn't thought of, or it might be one we're already working, sure, sure, sure, and we can give you some good news.
Katie Parsons:We may be pulling in some guests too to do a few with us, for sure.
Dani Combs:Because that was fun?
Katie Parsons:I think definitely, and we've had some people request to come back, carlos, carlos, and you know, yeah, yeah, we may have a little movie fest with Carlos, so that'll be fun. Yeah, so that's it. He doesn't know yet, but now he does. He knew. Yeah, that's true.
Dani Combs:We did tell him. We've talked about it, we have talked about it numerous. We talk about lots of ideas, now when we actually make them happen is the key. The key, okay? Well, that brings us to the end of our nostalgic, problematic season one, dawson's Creek. Yes, stay tuned for the next in our series. We don't know yet when that's going to debut, but stay on the edge of your seats.
Katie Parsons:Yes, and thanks everybody for listening and maybe go listen to some. Sarah McLaughlin, get in your feels today. I don't know this is heavy. Or just watch the episode and you'll hear the whole song numerous times. So you can do that too, and we'll see you guys next time here on generation in between bye.
