New Wave Invasion: A Special Guest's Perspective

Do your favorite tunes set dark lyrics on top of synthesizers and drum machine beats?

Do you have your own personal Jesus, or at least like to sing about it?

If you listened to alternative music long before grunge came along, you might be a Xennial New Wave fan -- and you'll love hearing from our special guest, Brant.

Listen in as Brant talks about the origins of New Wave music, how access to it has changed in his lifetime and what the music means to those who love it most.

This episode was made possible by the following sources:

The Best New Wave Bands via Ranker

New Wave Music via Wikipedia

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Transcript

Katie Parsons: 0:01

Do you enjoy the sounds of synthesizers, British accents and electronic drum machines in your music?

Dani Combs: 0:07

Did you or your older siblings own cassette tapes of groups like Depeche Mode, the cure, flock of seagulls and Yaz? If you answered yes to these questions, you might be a new wave fan, and you might be a zennial and we are too. Hi, I'm Katie and I'm Danny, and you are listening to generation in between, a zennial podcast, podcast, whoo, what was that? I don't know. We are a zennial podcast, not the other word I just said, where we revisit, remember, and sometimes relearn or learn for the first time, as we're gonna do a little bit of today, all kinds of things from our 80s childhoods and 90s, teen slash young adulthood. Yes. And if you couldn't tell by our intro today, we are talking about new wave music, and we have a special guest with us today to talk about that, and that is my husband and our amazing sound engineer. Brand, welcome. Yeah, he's so excited. Older siblings, am I in the wrong place here?

Katie Parsons: 1:08

Well, well, we should start there, because we do do this with every guest we do, we ask, Are you a zennial? So you'd be born between 77 and 83 I mean, I know the answer, but tell us, I'm glad you explained that, because I don't know what a zennial is. But no, I am not. Okay, so which generation do you align with? I don't align with it. Oh, I don't like the generation.

Brant Parsons: 1:30

If you want me to go off on what I feel about my generation, I guess technically, Generation X. But okay, all right, I don't, don't want to be included in that. Oh, so you were, oh, here come all the Gen Xers, unless they agree that's at Brandt. So you would have been then, well, you'll get into this. The type the music we're talking about. This would have been like your teenage years when it started, when it started, was when I was younger. But yeah, it was teenage, when I fat, when I discovered it and started listening to it. Okay, great, so we're gonna just kind of follow your lead today. I don't know if you want to tell us anything else about yourself before we get started. What's your history with music, with radio, all of that? I mean, I guess my history of this is just listening to it since high school, working as a DJ in Orlando, playing this music for 10 years on real radio. One, oh, 4.1 which was number one during the week, not on the weekends. I worked on the weekends. I think we were number one once. You really do have to clarify one ratings book, our music was number one in the demos that you want in radio. But so I've been around this music, not just listening to it, but also trying to turn other people onto it, sometimes successfully, sometimes not successfully. Yeah, he's pointing at me.

Dani Combs: 2:55

Yes, I have to tell you, though, when we mentioned Depeche Mode and the cash mode in whatever episode Troy was listening to it, he's like and Katie said she didn't like it. He turned the podcast off and put on their greatest hits. I know I'm turning away listeners with my musical tastes.

Unknown: 3:15

The Pesh moat saved my life. Katie doesn't would care if they didn't exist. Basically, I can't believe you don't like them. I Okay. It's not that I don't like them. I just don't always like to listen to them. Okay, that's her between days that start end and why? To be fair, she listens to some of the music I do that I grew up. I actually do that she never heard before she met me. But Depeche Mode is not one of them, okay? It's not one in, like, my personal rotation. Okay, you're allowed to like what you like. Thank you. I was not trying. I'm all mad. Bye, no, I'm just kidding. All right. All right. Well, go on. So tell us about New Wave music. What do we need to know? Tell me what you think New Wave music is. Oh, should I go first or Yes? You can't say Depeche Mode. Can we call attention, though, real quick to the other sound effects that may be picking up? It may not be yes. Literally, the roof is being replaced, not just at the studio, but above the room where we currently are. There's hammering and all sorts of things. So you probably could hear it. I don't know construction time again, Depeche Mode, listeners will know that way. Oh, okay, so it's on theme. Okay, so you asked us what we know about New Wave music or not? What you know? Okay, what you would consider it? Because I actually am shocked, because I did not know the answer. Okay, I won't answer because I was reading up on Wikipedia before I came. So pretend you're pretend you're still ignorant. What did you think before you read Wikipedia? I don't know. I feel like I think. I think what I thought I disagree with Wikipedia. But go on. I think what I thought about new wave was it was, what it was became something different than the label it was given. If that.

Dani Combs: 5:00

Makes sense, but I'm gonna let you answer before I go, yeah. I mean, mine's much more like,

Katie Parsons: 5:07

bigger picture, not very specific, just I would be like, it's like very emotional music, often slow alternative. I often think of like British singers or groups,

Unknown: 5:22

not really pop music. I guess some of it crossed over, but like what you would think was kind of like on the fringes of what would be popular, that's kind of what I think popular by accident, part of, part of my lure anyway, because I hate popular music, and because, as a rule, most, I think when a lot of people like a lot of things, that means it's not very good.

Brant Parsons: 5:44

That if you know Brandt, you know this is true, people will be like, I love whatever. And he's like, not me, yeah. Doesn't matter what it is. If it's popular, I'm suspicious it shouldn't be popular. I will say he likes pizza and Christmas. So there it is, that, and those would be popular. So I'm just saying, I'm just saying, that's great, but go on, okay, the thing with new wave music is and I again, I didn't, I didn't know what Wikipedia was going to say when I looked it up. It was what by if you look at the official definition of it, by the time I was listening to it, it wasn't called New Wave anymore. Like the official definition of what people say is that it was kind of post punk. It was actually American at first, like Blondie Talking Heads, those kind of things, giggling at the roof. Sorry, sorry, not just laughing at me. No, I'm not. I'm giggling at the roof. But I think you can I think the accepted idea of what New Wave is now like. If you listen to Sirius XM, their station is called first wave, which is a playoff of that they play a whole bunch of different things. It's very eclectic. If you actually look at what each band is, there's synth pop, there's alt rock, there's dark wave, there's goth, there's there are bands that are like typical bands. You had four piece bands that just happened to be in the 80s, and they became college rock, or they became alt rock, when really they were just rock bands. But that all kind of got grouped in a new wave. It all kind of got grouped into the fashion of new wave, which was different, because, as you know, the 80s were just gaudy and grotesque, with all the colors and and and all those things. And this was the opposite of that. This was people in black. This was people gender bending, wearing ambiguous clothing, and just kind of not what everybody else was wearing. And that became considered New Wave. So it was more of a culture thing, and it was a music thing. And so New Wave, I don't even know if there's a definition, so we call this show new wave. And everybody knows new wave, but I don't know what you like. Some people would say, some bands are new wave. Others would say, Oh no, they're not new wave. It just depends on who you talk to. But I guess for the all encompassing thing, this would be the music that was prevalent to the alternative community in the late 70s and 80s and into the early 90s. Yeah, yeah. I feel like, I feel like

Dani Combs: 8:11

that's kind of where, when I looked at the Wikipedia definition, I was like, oh, some that check. But then I was like, that doesn't seem right, but I don't know, because I'm no expert. So I was like, I can't wait to see what Brandt says,

Brant Parsons: 8:22

Yeah, wait, and I'm not an expert. This is my experience with it. And, yeah, I grew up in Podunk, Ohio, where we had no access to anything, and, you know, and then in Miami, where I had limited access to this, but I had friends that had found it's not like you have to always remember it was so hard to find music, even for us compared to you guys. Yeah, true, and you just didn't hear if it wasn't on radio. There are two radio stations in America that were playing this, and it was W, l, I R in New York, and K rock in LA nice. And then by the mid 80s, MTV was playing it in, you know, on Sunday night at midnight, with 120 minutes. And then there were crossover groups, and we can talk over on some of those that did come in a new way, but it was really hard to find this music. So while we were being force fed pop music, everywhere, you had to work to hear this, and that kind of came along with it also. So it was sort of like exclusive in a way, because it wasn't easy to get to so, and if you really wanted to, you had to work really hard. So there was, like, a little bit of, I don't know, maybe, like, ownership of that too, of like, being part of that culture, because that, there was that component too. You couldn't just turn on the radio and listen to it, yeah, and then there's a counterculture to it. You remember what the 80s were like? I don't know if you guys do, but like, we had terrible president, and, yeah, like, the worst president in history, and Ronald Reagan, and, you know, Britain had one of its worst Prime Ministers in history, and Margaret Thatcher, and they were just so and I know you would disagree, but the royal family is so terrible, and they're terrible, I'm just fascinated by that. And. So those, those are kind of the factors that went into this also. And you had, you had AIDS that was killing people and, but it was killing gay people, so they didn't care about it in the White House, and they didn't care about it in whatever house that Margaret Thatcher lives in, and, and so you had a community that was facing this and making music for it, and but more so the community of people that wanted to embrace something different and not be the pastels. And you know what passed for 80s music. And alongside you had people who had no musical talent, that had ideas, and you could do that with synthesizers, easier than learning how to play a guitar. Yeah, you could. You could learn how you didn't have to learn how to play the drums. You could have a drum machine, and

Unknown: 10:44

so you were able to express maybe some of these ideas without having to have a lot of music. And then those people, then eventually maybe learned how to do music. But technology was changing also, and some people wanted to embrace that in their music also. Yeah, every time I think, when I think of new wave music, that is what I think of as electronic. Electronic music items. I don't know what they're called. I mean, they're instruments, right? Synthesizers, yeah, synthesizer is what I think of drum machines. Like, that's what I think like, my sister loved Yaz and like, I also I was listening to them to prepare for today. And that's what I think of like, well, Yaz or Yazoo, depending on which country, yeah, true, true, true facts. By the time she found them, it was, yeah, so,

Dani Combs: 11:25

but that's what I think of. And I think it's interesting you said, like this, this is for this was, like, anti establishment music, which is what punk rock was. So this was, like the kind of the next era. This was less aggressive, less aggressive. Well, I, and I don't even know if it meant to be anti establishment, but

Brant Parsons: 11:44

I mean life, especially when you're teenager, life sucks, yeah, and you're depressed and the world, and it was bad in the 80s, you had, you know, when I was growing up, you had, you learned about nuclear war on every corner. You always thought there was going to be, you know, there could be a bomb any day, and so you're worried about that. And then, you know, we were so repressed sexually from AIDS and and STDs, and that was a scare on us. So, like, art growing up was just like, you know, in fear. And you had music now that was different. That wasn't just Poppy love songs, that wasn't dance Hubble, Ooh, that was on 80s pop radio. And you had stuff that actually had, like, like, thought to it. And, you know, a lot of people that listen to it, you know, we can go back. A lot of my friends also listen to things like the Beatles and and groups that this later Beatles, not the poppy Beatles, but like when the Beatles got smart and and wrote intelligently, and really, you know, locked themselves in the studio, and you had lyrics and you had words and things had meaning. And it wasn't just gobbledygook that capitalism, yes, exactly. It wasn't just, you know, spitting out things and, you know, and one of the things that I was listening, that I was learning through this is, is, and we'll go in all the different things, but you could consider Prince new wave on some of the stuff he did. You could the go. Go's were considered new wave when they first came out. Cyndi Lauper, yeah, in fact, it was funny, because when we were talking about doing this, I knew it was coming up. I was like, Oh, I gotta start thinking about this. Cyndi Lauper song was on MTV two, or whatever we have. And I was like, you know, that's actually kind of that really wasn't pop music for what in here. And so you can consider, like, some of that new wave. So some of it broke, broke over. Some of it crossed over just once or twice. Some bands never really crossed over. But there's like that fringe element. But if you really wanted to be immersed in it was, it wasn't mainstream, yeah, but then it became mainstream, right? It kind of took, I think, of friends. You remember that episode of Friends where they had the flashback, and Matthew Perry Chandler. He was in his flock of seagulls phase, so he had the hair, the hair, yes, well, that's the thing that's interesting. And also shout out to Mike score of flock of seagulls. He lives probably 10 minutes from here. What? Yeah, he lives in Rockledge, and he was a hairdresser, and that was where the hair came from, but in the early 80s, and it's called the second British Invasion, and it kind of coincides with MTV. And you had some of these bands that were considered new wave, that would have been considered new wave, that made it because of the video. So you had, you know, you had Dexys, Midnight Runners, you had Human League, Duran, Duran, which, believe it or not, even though they were kind of little poppy. They were considered at one point to be more, more new wave the police, which was an amazing band, but they were different, but they kind of benefited from that first wave. So in the early 80s, you actually had some of these bands that were known for a song or two, like a flock of seagulls, which I don't leave Iran's not my favorite song of their space age love song is but their one song gets on MTV and got a lot of play, and so those kind of things. So you had bits and pieces of it that came across. But it was not everything came got it. And then, and then later, in the late 80s, you probably had a year or two there where, you know. The Passion mode finally cracked through with violator the cure was cracking through with their songs. Even if it was like a terrible song like Friday, I'm in love, it still like came through. And then Nirvana came, and everything got messed up, and all gone. The famous chord from Nirvana played, and everything changed, but Nirvana, actually, that song debuted on 120 minutes, yes, because it was, you know, alternative and but that changed everything. That changed too, because alternative became mainstream then too, yes, yeah. Well, so are there any groups that you often hear lumped into new wave that you don't personally think are? I mean, I don't, I don't think so it's just a matter like, so, when you think about the biggest bands, and I actually took a list off a ranker, and this is what people voted for, and you and you have, like, the top band they have is the cure, who are really got almost Gothic, Yeah, that's but they're also, it's moody, it's it's a different kind of music. And you have Depeche Mode, which was in the 80s, was completely sent, and I was gonna say, when you said Ya zoo, or Yaz, that was started by Vince Clark, who actually started Depeche Mode and did their first album, which was really kind of kind of dance Poppy. And that actually put the pesmo on the charts. And like 1979 just can't get enough, was a big hit here in America. And then he left and and did Yaz with, with Allison, was Moyer, I think, and they did two up, two albums together, and then moved on. And then he found Andrew Bell, and they've been together since. And that's eraser, which Katie really likes erasure. And we've actually seen them in concert erasure. And that's like synth pop, almost completely danced since pop. So it's, like, it's, it's the same as the peshmote, except for, it's not the dark, dreary the world is bad, and it's, it's more to the pop side, but, but that's the peshmote, and you're grouping them in with the cure. And then number three, you have New Order, which was just straight dance, and that came out of post punk Joy Division, which was completely depressing. And and, and then Ian Curtis killed himself, and they regrouped and became new order. And then kind of led this whole electronic movement, which ended up turning into EDM and, you know, the whole path that way. But they actually had a real bass player along with this. And then you have the Smiths with some people put on, like, a new wave list. Some people don't. It's not on the Ranker List. They were just a four man band that hated each other, that had like, four years of great music, and then that was it. They hated each other then or later, all the time. Oh, but, if you know Morrissey, it makes sense, he's turned out to be kind of a, he's kind of, he's kind of a xenophobic jerk and but I've heard a few things, yeah, but, you know, they but they were greatly but they were just a rock band, and you have like REM, which can be considered a new wave, or it can be considered college rock. You know, they finally broke through right before Nirvana, with losing my religion and those kind of things. But so they're all different. So if you want to tell me something's New Wave, I'll probably just be like, Yeah, except for, like, Britney Spears or something, but, but, like most bands you know, like, you can consider maybe they had influenced by New Wave and just people didn't know it at the time. Yeah. Yeah. What's your favorite? Favorite? Few favorite band, yeah, oh, Depeche Mode. Okay, hands down. Got it. That's like, that's everything to me. So tell us, I know you have some stories about Depeche Mode that the listeners would probably like to hear. Like, I think there's one about you listening to it at your friends or something. Well, that, yeah, so I was in high school and, and, you know, I, like, I said, I came from a really repressed Ohio background, and just just was trying to find myself, and spent the early part of my time in Miami listening to, like, classic rock, which wasn't terrible, still better than what was on y1 100. Well, just to kind of interject quickly, I don't know that we said that you moved to when you moved to Miami in ninth grade, in ninth grade. So he had lived in Ohio then moved to, like, Miami proper. Oh, wow, great. Yeah. I went from a high school less than 400 to a graduating class of 834, yeah, that's a big shift. And Ohio to Miami and Miami in the 80s. Miami, 80s, like late 80s, right after the day land shootings and all that. Sorry to interrupt. So go, yeah, and, and I was just kind of, I was lost in trying to find myself. And I had some really good friends that, like, you need to listen to, you should listen to this music. And I fought it for a little bit. And finally, my friend Andy, who I'm still friends with and you've met, said you should take home this, this disc. And it was Depeche Mode 101, which was an album that they recorded at the Rose Bowl, which so while I didn't even know really who Depeche Mode was, and most of America didn't, they sold out the Rose Bowl because they were big in LA because of K rock, and they like, shut the whole town down. Like, shut la down. And they had to, like, evacuate the record store for for a signing, because it was so packed. And they sold out the rose. Bowl two straight nights, and so they had this concert, and the first song I heard was stripped. It was the first song on side two of cassette a and that's funny how we remember that. And I listened to that, and then the next song was somebody which is still one of my two favorite songs of all time. And I just kept listening to it. And spent the entire weekend listening to it, and I went back to him on Monday. I'm like, I need more. And so then they gave me camouflage, and they're like, All right, now you're ready for the cure, and now you're ready for new order, and now you're ready for Echo and a bunny man. And so now you got to start listening to v u m, which was the college radio station, and your next thing, you know, I'm just fully immersed in it. And we were,

Dani Combs: 20:41

you know, trying to, always trying to one up on what we could find and what we were listening to. And you make mixtapes for people. And I had friends. My friend Manuel was making me mixtapes. My friend Josh was making me mixtapes. And so it just kind of went that way. And then I actually finally figured out like a place there. And so it's a pretty significant moment for me personally, again, this is just all my experience. But I didn't feel like I had an idea of what was going in my head until I heard songs that were like, it's okay to have those things going through. Yeah, and we've talked about that. I think we just talked about that with Jagged Little Pill we did and, and that's Jen talked about that with Reba. I feel like you know when you especially when you're at that coming of age moment, like, like, Brandt said, like, life kind of sucks when you're a teenager. I don't care who you are. It's rough. Like, you're trying to figure your life out. You're in situations where you are halfway an adult and halfway a kid. You don't know what to do. And when you find that right artist or group, or you hear those right lyrics, it's like, Brandt said, like, something just clicks, and you're like, I that's what I'm feeling like, that's me. And then it's mixed tapes were, like, the best thing ever we've talked there's an art to it. Oh, there is. And, I mean, I can't remember making so many mix tapes, and then, and then mix CDs. Like, once the CDs came in the game and you could burn music, that was even more fun. And we had some in our CD collect, or my CD collection on Friday too. But I do definitely Troy still had some mixed tapes when he had his box of cassette tapes that we finally had to get rid of. But

Katie Parsons: 22:12

yeah, yeah, we have talked about that a lot, and it makes a difference. And you know, and then however many years later, you're still talking about, like, Jen's in here talking about Reba, you know, you're in here talking about new wave music. We're talking about Jagged Little Pill, and how, when we listen to stuff, maybe when we were 1516 how it affected us, and hearing sometimes the same exact lyrics, how we view them now, and feeling them deeply, but in a totally different way. Yeah, you know. And the good artists will do that for sure. Yeah. So what else you got? You're the interviewers. Oh, yes,

Dani Combs: 22:47

I see that you did some research. Skip over any I have a question, though, since we're talking about teenagers and music, y'all have three teenagers in your house, Yep, yeah. So have you been able to introduce them to the music that you love,

Brant Parsons: 23:02

not really. I'd say my oldest daughter is the closest, okay, but she's more in the 90s rock genre actually listens Red Hot Chili Peppers, which in the 80s was a new wave band, which was a college rock band. You know, I liked, you know, we listened to Red Hot Chili Peppers before other people did, you know? Because that's the thing. I heard them before they made it big. But like, we listened to Red Hot Chili Peppers mother's milk, and even some of this the disc before that. And she likes her. She was in the cranberries the other day. She's like, she's like, Elton John. But I don't, I haven't heard her listening. Well, actually, no, my other daughter, her favorite song is, there is light that never goes out by the Smiths, which is one of my favorite songs of all time, and, and that's, I mean, if a double decker bus crashes into both of us, yeah, you know, it's, it's really dark, and it's kind of cool that they would find so, yeah, some solace in that too, because it's, It's so unique and so special. And my son doesn't listen to any of it, but he has come up to me sometimes and be like, you know, your music is not that bad. That's a lot. But I 17 year olds, but I don't know that he's picked up any of the music, talking to you about one of the artists not too long ago. Oh, yeah, well, who's the artist? Remember who he was talking to you about? I can't remember now. And you're like, Yeah, we had this like, discussion. About it'll come to me, yeah, I don't remember, but I remember you guys had a convo about it, and you were very surprised. And it's like, you have to, like, contain your excitement when your kids get interested in something that you love so much, because you're, like, trying to be cool about it. And, yeah, like, it's no big but I listened to my parents music, and I never, I always enjoyed it, but maybe because I didn't like what I was listening to in the 80s. But my parents listened to, you know, they my mom's favorite, one of my mom's favorite groups, I just found out last night, is queen. So, you know, I grew up listening to The Beatles and and Rolling Stones and what they were listening to on the radio, and some 70 stuff, which is not. Great, but some of the stuff was good, so I never, like had a problem with their music. And in fact, my mom loves the passion mode, and we would go on trips, and we had a six CD changer, and three of the disc would be theirs, and three of them would be depass mode, and we would just rotate through. And she loved listening to for whatever she may not even understand. You know why I was listening to freshmen, but she enjoyed the music. So we I never had that riff, but my kids have not completely embraced it's not from lack of exposure to it, because I will not put other music on if I'm driving, I'm listening to my music car too. Like, Well, I always tell my kids, like, whoever's driving gets to pick the music. So when my teenager started driving, he's like, Guess what, Mom, yeah, and he listens to hip hop and rap, which I'm not opposed to, but I like my generation's hip hop and rap. I don't like his and but I'm like, You're right if you're driving and I'm riding. Yeah, great. Well, and Amelia told me when she was driving one of the first time she goes. You know, I get it now, why? When you're driving, you want to hear something you like, because it's really jarring. If you're not, it's so true. It is true. It is very distracting. The last thing I want to hear is hip hop and rap or country music when I'm driving. Yeah, I'm just gonna, it's gonna country go on a rampage or something. But, but they've been exposed to the music and but like London, her liking of the Smiths was from a friend at school that played it for and, and amelias found Red Hot Chili Peppers through school. So I don't know if they're defining it through me, but they've, they've kind of directed there a little bit, so they've absorbed just through con. Like, yeah, being in the environment of it, I think you never know they're young. You know, we've talked about, too, on the show and off the show, Brandt, and I have talked about this, how music is just so segmented now, too, it is like your own curated playlists, and you can find amateur artists on YouTube that you can doubt, like, there's just so much music out there, I think, which is honestly great, but it wasn't like that. Well, it was for us, because you couldn't find this music, right? The only place we found our music was that, like, records, you know, yeah, CD record stores on bird road or, you know, in the import section at at peaches or specs, or whatever, or college radio, which is why I actually got into radio, because I thought those guys can do radio I can do because they were terrible, like college radio, man. So that's REM dude, yeah, man, that's a cool song. Well, let's see. Let's play like some Smiths, all right, yeah. You know, I was like, well, they can do radio I can do, totally do not, but that was how you know, if you lived within four miles of University of Miami campus, you could hear, you know, v, u, M, and I was lucky I did. So it was, it was harder then, but, but there was even, even harder to hear music, this kind of music in America, at least, but press out to the to the college radio stations out there, because I feel like that's how I heard a lot of cool music too. Was when I was in college, like, because they I feel like young people are on the cusp of knowing all the things every generation never changes, never changes, absolutely, yeah, yeah. I think that's so true. Was the quote. I wrote it down as a quote someone said about college radio, and it was people who saw college rock as a desperately needed alternative to the platinum tedium of classic and top 40 drivel. And just Amen to that. I mean, that's true. It was such a different and when people look back on the 80s and say, Oh, I love the music, they're not remembering most of the crappy pop. They're not remembering Tiffany and Debbie Gibson and expose and all that they're remembering a flock of seagulls was on MTV, or the police and every you know, those are the kind of stuff that that actually has lingered on, that, you know, that made it through early on, anything that was on a John Hughes movie, or those. Oh, but if you love that, it's okay. Yes, it is okay if you love Debbie Gibson and Tiffany and those are your favorite. When you guys were saying, like the yes, if you because I'm I forgot, it's a different audience. There's not a person listening that shares it, but, but fairly and they have their place. You know, the Brittany have their place and those kind of things. But when you remember, you remember the significant stuff I feel. And so there was so much just pop stuff, you know, that people remember Michael Jackson, but it was, I guess that was a little more groundbreaking, but a lot of it was just all the kind of derivative of each other. So when people think back to the 80s, I think most of them aren't thinking back to what most of the 80s music was, they're thinking of those different things that pop out, yeah. I mean, it was a lot of formulaic music. We still have that now in pop music. I mean, that's what pop music is, the formula, yeah, make money. Like, Yeah, seriously, like people written by like five people, and they write songs for all the people. And, you know, the, you know, the 90s was when it really.

Dani Combs: 30:00

Already get bad with just like forming bands and putting them together. And, you know, I mean advertising to adolescent, prepubescent teenage girls works.

Brant Parsons: 30:11

And again, if it's popular, there's a reason it is. Brings us back, yeah, which brings original statement that Daniel signed 100% absolutely when we I was just gonna loop back to erasure. Since I really enjoyed them, I've always liked their music. Well, let me, let me rephrase that, I didn't know who they were till brand, yes, introduced me to them when we were dating. And so I was like, I don't even know who this is. I don't know what anything is. And really, she really does, did not. I mean, you were, you were me, just later in life, yeah, but you had never listened to it. You you grew up around parents who didn't play any music, and I don't think they would have listened to it anyway. And then you listen to the music of your era, and then you have, like, musical stuff that you listen to, and you didn't have any friends that listen to this, right? You were, you were me in Miami, just you were a little bit later in life, 10 years back in your algorithm. I was stuck in my own algorithm, and I loved erasure, and we had a chance, like he said, to see them in Orlando a couple years ago. I guess it's been several years ago now. And it was funny, because you saw them back when you were younger, right? So like So describe the difference in the demographic at this I mean, the demo was still the same. It's just we were all over, you know, erasure. Most of the bands I saw, you know, in the late 80s or 90s, it was, everybody was not sitting down, right, and it was not in a theater. It was, you know, and cursor razor was, was actually, I think I saw a razor, razor and House of Blues later on. But this was in the DR Phillips center. Everybody was in their 50s and late 40s, and you had your bottle of water, and everybody, and they were, they're buying their drinks from the bar, and it was wine and all these other things. And they were in, like, polo shirts. There was some of that. It just, it was an older cop, but it was the same people just watching it in a different way, because you can't, not everybody our age can dance like for an hour and a half for yourself. They need to sit. You know what's crazy when I saw Elton John at Caesars Palace, why they didn't know this? Yeah, this was, I don't know, probably 10 years ago now, maybe eight, seven or eight years ago. Anyway, it would have been, it was my sister's 40th, 40th. So that would have been eight years to age your sister.

Dani Combs: 32:42

But yes, it was,

Brant Parsons: 32:44

everyone sat the whole concert one, and I just thought that was really weird. Oh, I would have been the one person you traveled. I was like, and to be fair, we danced most of the erasure. We were up for a lot of Yeah, but it was just, it was different. And, you know, and I don't, I don't go to many places, I don't go many places. Certainly don't go to many concerts anymore. I mean, that's why I didn't want to go to Depeche Mode, because I was like, I don't want to see those with a bunch of old people, because I don't think I'm old. I'm old, but I don't I look at people, they're so old you went to school, like, oh, well, they're older than me. I know I thought the same way, so it's a look, but they erasers a band that still sounds great. And so they sounded great. And it was fun to listen to Andy bills voices held up. And because it's, you know, you know, Vince Clark is just hitting a button and playing, you know, because it's, it's all, yeah, it's all sent and programmed, they sounded really good. And not all these bands can say a cure still sound great. Yeah, I would still see the cure any day. And then lies bands you'll don't tour aren't together anymore. So, yeah, do you find that there are any current bands that kind of have this sound? Well, there there are, and there's been, there's been resurgence, at least, like, in like, since pop, uh, there's still a really strong, in indie rock scene out there. I know it. What you're supposed to say at our age is all this new music sucks, and new pop music sucks, but there's, there's good independent rock music out there still, and and I'll listen to, I'll listen to stuff all the time, but my favorite band right now is churches, which is another group that we've gone to see. And they, they are, that was, that's still my favorite concert, and so good. And that is a complete synth pop band. And have have gone out through there. I actually wrote down some, maybe I don't have it in front of me, that that kind of fit well, shiny toy guns. I don't know if you remember them. I played them some. There's a group called naked and famous. But then you could also argue that the weekend, it has some new wave stuff with those What's the song? The weekend is really famous. Binding, binding, light. Yeah, that's that's a very kind of synth song. I saw something. I wrote it down. Kesha can be considered a. New Wave and synth and some of the stuff that they do. So there are still bands out there, and there's still alt bands out there that do rock that you could say is influenced by by Smith or cure or or forging their own path. And it's fun to listen to that. So I always want to listen to new music. I've never I still listen to new wave, you know, as my predominant you know, when my Spotify will show up at the end of the year, it'll always be my number one. But I do try to listen to new stuff too, new indie bands, not new pop.

Dani Combs: 35:33

He has a clarifying

Brant Parsons: 35:35

mistake. I don't say, though, like your Lady Gaga off hand. And I would say Lady Gaga. I was listening to her yesterday, I think you could say some of her stuff is kind of could fit into some of these categories. It's dance, it's deep, it's it's multi layered. It's not just and that's what I liked about it. And in fact, I did. I ignorantly just thought she was terrible. And then she was on The Howard Stern Show, and she played, um, acoustic. She played two of her songs acoustic. And I was like, wow, she can really sing. And you're like, yeah, duh. And like, hello. But then I was like, wow. So there's really talent there. Because I just assumed she was just like everyone else that doesn't have a lot of talent is just singing behind a pre program kind of thing. But she writes her songs, and I think you could find some some some new wave influence. And what she does, she has a documentary that came out years ago on Netflix called five foot two. Hi, yay shirt girls, anyways,

Dani Combs: 36:32

and that's when I figured out how amazing and talented she was, because it shows her composing and singing. And I was like, oh, because I thought the same thing. I still liked her, right? I thought the same thing, like, she's great. I love her, yeah. And then I watched that, and I was like, wow, she's, like, amazing. But okay, so I do have a question. Can I ask a question? Are you gonna ask him something? Oh, go ahead. So would you say that new wave did originate overseas?

Brant Parsons: 37:02

It depends on your who you're talking to, because the official term of new wave is post punk, right? And post punk really grew here, just as much as it did there with Blondie, right? You had, like, said Talking Heads, was someone that came out of there. So there was, like, American post punk bands and Blondie can go a lot of different directions. I mean, they were so great at almost chameleon like and morphine into different genres as as from song to song. So technically, you could say New Wave started there, but I think you had MTV form. And MTV was like, we'll just, we just want to play videos. Whoever has videos. And there were videos from England. I mean, the first song they played was a new wave artist, the bubbles, yeah, we talked about that Video Killed the Radio Star. I mean, that's a new wave band that was completely synth. And it was talking about how, you know, video was going to kill the radio star, which was basically saying, you know, technology is killing the people that that are classically trained in this, you know, but then MTV is just looking for something to fill and they would play anything, well, except black artists, but that's but so they, they loaded up on, like, some English bands. And next thing you know, you had an Australian band, like men at work, and then you had, like, said, Duran, Duran, and you had these bands that were very good at making videos, where American music, at the time, just wasn't going to make videos and didn't realize the importance of it, but, like, the innovative stuff was being done in English. So that kind of brought some of that over to where it was more, not say mainstream, but known here, but I New Wave technically began in America, but like you have also the influence, and I have a good quote here and and the guy was Lee Abrams, who I actually had the unfortunate, the the unfortunate experience of working at a company that he helped ruin. But before he did that, he was a radio consultant, a very famous radio consultant. He started XM Radio, and he would go to radio stations and album oriented radio stations like you should be playing some of this British stuff. And his quote was, all my favorite bands are English. It is a more artistic place. Experimentation thrives there. Everything over here is more like McDonald's and and then Bob curry, who was, he was a manager of ANR at EMI, said, bands in America want to be signed to make money, while bands in the UK want to be signed to communicate. And then you had Richard blade, who was, he's still a DJ. He's on first wave. He was a British young man at the time who came over to K rock and was playing British music too, because it was better than what they had in their rotation. And so I think the reason it then became British new wave is just because it was better got it, and the music was different, and it was experience. Mental. And it was they were testing things. And they're from all the different regions. Like you can look at a map of England, and you can see, you know, the Peshmerga was from basil, the cure was from West London, North London. And you had Liverpool, you had echo and a bunny man, and the Smiths were from the the Mad Chester scene in Manchester. And like all over you had these different bands who were all part of, like, what this movement is, and they all brought like, these own unique sounds from like, this really tiny place that was still segmented and, you know, and just as we were doing here in America, they were going through tough times in the late 70s and 80s, and, you know, economically and politically, as I already mentioned, and socially and all those things were changing, and it was so fast, how it was changing, and and so I think that lure was because they were actually making music that was good, and I still think it was good. Yeah, that's interesting, well. And we talked a little bit about that on our MTV episode. If y'all haven't listened, go listen. We do talk about that, yeah, how, um, MTV, they didn't. They only had like, a handful of videos to show because, like, Brandt said Americans weren't American. Music wasn't doing it yet, so the handful of videos were doing promo videos, right? And so it was posted, basically, yes. But then you had bands like, Aha, now, aha, a lot of people are gonna, oh, Take on me. Great song, amazing song, not my favorite of theirs, but they're huge in Europe. They're huge in Norway. They're still together. They still make music. They've had multiple Top 10 Songs across the whole continent. They're known as a one hit wonder here because they had an incredible video, and that, of course, is the stop motion draw, the cartoon drawing, and then he's in the box, and it became fit. And so that's what they were doing over there. And MTV is like, well, bring that over here. And then, you know, then America being the copycat, especially entertainment wise, that it is like, well, we got to start doing videos, right? And so then they started doing videos and different genres. And but it was like, you said, MTV is just so desperate for stuff. And then they had bands that were doing it that were actually really good, yeah. And they could play videos, and people, you know, watch them. And, you know, I ran the, you know, from from flock of sequel, same kind of thing. It was just, it was so different. And all they were doing is, if you ever watch a video, it's just, he pushes the keyboard, he pushes one note, camera spins around, and he pushes the next note. You know, that's all he's doing. But it was just, it was visually different. The hair was different, the style was different. It was something that people hadn't seen before, and, you know, the androgynous of people's outfits. And then you were finally able to see it. You didn't have because you couldn't just, you know, go on YouTube. You couldn't just pull up something on Tiktok or Instagram, you couldn't see the music, and then all of a sudden you could see it. And now you're like, wow, there's something different out there.

Dani Combs: 42:51

Yeah. I mean, of course, I first heard it, you know, through my headphones, but the four people that found it just so y'all just just do the through the vision, though, also, he didn't need the music videos. No, I'm just saying is, it's not the the complete reason people turn to it because I did not more exposure, right? Yeah, just, it just gave more exposure and broadened the audience reach, right? And I think, too, I think when you can attach a visual to music, sometimes that just makes it even stronger, because now sometimes it's not sometimes it just makes it even more commercial, but sometimes it just furthers the artistic expression of especially, you know, in that time, like you were saying, they were more innovative, they had more cool ideas, like you just said, he was like, pressing a button, camera spinning, yay. But nothing was being done like that. So I think some concerts were weird. Let me just tell you, yeah, they're just standing behind keyboards. You know, it's it, you it's a whole different thing. It's because I missed my calling. I could have totally pressed some buttons and worn weird clothes, right? Yes, you could have,

Brant Parsons: 43:58

you think about what was known at the time, and rock music, and, to an extent, some popular music. It was a guitarist, a bass player, a drummer and a singer who, maybe, who may be a second guitarist, and they all played instruments, or the guitar or the lead singer was just, you know, the leader. But now everything has changed, and now we're going to watch a razor and Vince Clark just stands there the whole time. Now, he's got a great front man and a great, flamboyant front man who captures the whole audience in Andy Bell, but like, he's just hitting the button and it's playing because it's all programmed. You know, it's hard to recreate 10 synth sounds over. You know, love me some sense. That's why I like, EDM still, yeah, I'll put that on the car. And the kids are like, What the hell? And I'm like, I just like it, okay, I love it's melodic, and I think, and that was the thing that came out of it being not a post you had punk, which was just raw, and I like some punk and, but it was a little bit before my time, like the real, true punk, you know, the pistols and. The dead, the Dead Kennedys and and those kind of things. I was like, dead milkman was the the punk for me in the 80s. But it was music that was kind of like we said, had a message, but it was melodic, and you could listen to it. I can remember, you know, trying to be a head banger. You know, in like, ninth grade, I tried that too, that face and listening to heavy metal rock and head bangers, ball was on, on on MTV, and I found that the groups that I liked were the ones that were melodic. And, you know, I would be drawn to the the Van halens and the Def Leppard, and I wasn't drawn to the to the heavy stuff, or, you know, even Metallica at that point, and before they became melodic and but so that was, I think of draw to me was, I want to be punk, but they're terrible. I love the message, yes, got, you know, God Save the Queen and all those things. But it was just terribly played, and it was loud and it was and so out of that, it had to change a little bit. And so you've got, like, this melodic stuff, and the fact that the same people that couldn't play instruments in punk couldn't play instruments in synth, but their instruments sounded like they could. Yeah, do you do? Was there ever an argument again? Because I came to knowing this music late, that that's like, not real music. Oh, it's that, yeah, always is. There's probably still is. There's gonna be haters forever. There's always, yeah, there was definitely there. And, I mean, I had friends that are like, Oh, why are you listening to that? That's not, you know, they're not even playing instruments. Yeah, there's people that, you know, everybody has their definition. I mean, I've certainly put my definitions out there today of what counts as music and what doesn't. And there were definitely push back. Then there's pushback. Now, I was reading about the new Romantic era, which is what a lot of these bands got grouped into, and then the bands that were considered that, like, Don't ever call us that we weren't in that era. We're not new romantic, yeah, so we're old romantic. Okay? I mean, it's an idea of not being grouped in anything. But there's always going to be people complaining and saying something's music, or something's not kind of like you said earlier, and we've said a zillion times on the podcast, if it brings you joy, then it matters. Yeah. And listen. And all you people that listen to pop music, enjoy it and listen to it and play it loud, just not around bright just not around. Katie said, Oh, I listen. I live in a house where they play musicals all day long. I'm like, What? What one is that now? And it's like, the count of Hootie bot, yeah. It's like, where did you hear this? And it's like, some song that they've come up with their day. My teenager, it was like, kiss Cooper and I just walk around randomly singing. As you know, all day it came goes, Can y'all please just stop with the singing for just a little while? Is that the song you need for audition? No, it's like this women's of Windsor musical or something. I'm like, get her head. How does he get in your head? No one's ever heard of these songs.

Unknown: 48:06

The only way to get it out is to propel it out your mouth. Yeah.

Brant Parsons: 48:12

So I'm around any many of those in your head, and I and I will make fun of pop, and I think it's terrible, and I don't like country music, and I think it's terrible, but if that's what you like listening to, then that's your jam. I mean, you can do that just I'm not gonna

Unknown: 48:26

share appreciation for it with you, right? Exactly, awesome. Well, um, I feel like I know more about New Wave, anything about new wave after this, I think you did. I'd be the lowest rated ranked episode that you guys are going to have no doubt. Look, if you guys liked listening to hearing hearing about new wave with brand, you need to tell us, yeah, yeah, for sure, because maybe we'll make him come back. I know, I know Troy will like it. So yeah, exactly. Got one fan, yay, one download. Yeah. I honestly, I don't even know how to talk about new wave, so I don't even Great, okay, great, because it's so just all encompassing, and it's so different. It is. It's so hard. Sometimes when you can't it's hard to place stuff in a box that don't really belong in a box. So it's hard to be like, Well, where do I start? And how do I even, yeah, how do I especially that doesn't want to be in a box, right? Like, deliberately. Like, correct? Yeah, it's tricky. Well, thank you so much for bringing us this. Was there anything, any other quotes that

Brant Parsons: 49:27

you I wanted to make sure that I threw the Abrams under the bus. Okay,

Unknown: 49:33

I think that's check Abrams, check

Brant Parsons: 49:39

pop music lovers, check I did not. I didn't I pop music lovers. I will never include you in the same check as Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, and I'm not even gonna put Lee Abrams on that level. He's like middle level. But I would never compare pop music lovers just to people's evil as Ronald Reagan got that there we feel good. Okay, we're good. Everybody's good.

Katie Parsons: 50:00

All right. Well, thank you guys for listening in to another wonderful music episode. And if you're a patron, stick around, because we're going to keep right here a little longer for our after show. Yes, so you don't want to miss that, although, I don't know, like, he's pretty much said it all. But has he? Has he has he really, what else is he going to say? Oh, the roofers are back. They've been here the whole time. Well, they stopped. It stopped for a while. It did. It did because I was like, oh, we should, in my head, I'm thinking, we should have just started a little later, but they're back. So if you loved this, share us with your friends of all generations. We love all generations here on generation in between. Follow us on our socials. We are on the Tiktok friends. So Tiktok, everyone got our first hater yesterday. Let's talk about that on the Patreon. Okay, and then, sorry, I didn't know your case to read that. What? I didn't know what? Got it. Got it? Okay, wow. I think maybe we should be done with this episode. But thank you all for listening. Leave us a review, and I don't know, whatever else we usually say. And they Woody, Woody from the show. And we'll see you next time. Bye. You.