MTV of the 80's and 90's: A Xennial Lookback

Did you ever yell "I want my MTV" as a way to rebel against your parents? Do you remember waiting excitedly for the world premiere of an N'Sync music video during TRL?

If you still think that video killed the radio star, you might be a Xennial who grew up alongside MTV. And we are too.

Join us as we revisit the beginning of MTV and how it evolved during our childhood and teenage years. Dani did A LOT of research for this episode, so grab your coffee or wine and settle in, dear listeners.

This episode was made possible by the following sources:

I Want My MTV - an AETV Special

40 Years of MTV - The Conversation

David Bowie on Race and MTV - Vox

Original MTV VJs: Where Are They Now via Biography

MTV via Wikipedia

MTV via Britannica

MTV News via Wikipedia

Loveline via Wikipedia

Road Rules via Wikipedia

Daria via Wikipedia

Total Request Live via Wikipedia

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Transcript

Dani Combs: 0:01

Did you ever record Paula Abdul videos on your VCR so you could attempt to learn all the choreography with your neighborhood friends? Did the video for Michael Jackson's Thriller provide endless fodder for your childhood nightmares? Did you ever long to be cool enough to walk the red carpet at the VMAs find a date on singled out, or live in a house with seven strangers, where people stopped being polite and started getting real. If you ever sang the words I want my MTV, you might be a zennial and we are too. Hello, I am Danny and I'm Katie, and you're listening to generation in between a zennial podcast where we remember, revisit, and sometimes relearn all kinds of things from our 80s childhoods and 90s teen young adulthoods. Yes, yes. And today's episode, everyone is about something that made a huge impact in 80s, 90s pop culture, and that is MTV. Yes. So Katie, did you watch MTV? How old were you when you watched it? If you did, what do you remember? I remember I had neighbors who would watch it, so it would have probably been late 80s, early 90s. And so it was like Paula abdulstah, huh? We didn't have it on at my house, but I remember just sort of like out of the corner of my eye, maybe catching a few things there. You've been watching it more when I was in like, middle school and high school, coming home from school and, you know, turning it on or whatever. Awesome. Yeah. What about you? Yeah, I actually was just telling Katie's husband, who was in here adjusting sound for us, which is our never ending thorn in the side. Ouch. Thank you, Brant for helping us endlessly. Yeah, my sister is seven years older than me. As you all know, I've talked about her a lot, and so I saw lots of things in the 80s, long before I needed to see them. So I remember the early days of MTV because we had it. Tara correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure we had it pretty early on, like in the early to mid 80s, when she would have been a teenager around those days. So I do I remember watching it a lot. I remember seeing things I should not have seen. I remember that I want my MTV commercials. I remember all of that. So doing the research for this was fun, because even though I was little when MTV started, I remember, like so much of it, it's weird. It's weird when you have a sibling that's so much older than you, especially in the time that we lived in, because you remember things from their teenage hood, and you experienced it from the outside, even though it wasn't your experience. You know what I mean. Makes sense anyways. But before we get too far into it, let's take some time, because we have to do a couple circle backs, shout out situations, and I am the first circle back everyone. Shocker, I did something up. Yay. I know it's hard to believe we are actually just about to put a funny little clip on our socials about something I just messed up in Katie's video today. We are trying to be hip. I cannot zennials and make reels, and we are so dang bad at it, unless I'm trying on costumes. Oh, anyway, you'll see what we're talking about. So in our last two episodes, which were so much fun, are Jagged Little Pill episodes. I apparently could not decide how to pronounce Alanis morissette's first name because I said it repeatedly two different ways, and I texted Katie when I was listening back. I was like, Oh my gosh, did you know I did this? And she was like, Yeah, I noticed. I thought it was funny, and I say Alanis, but you're saying it's Alanis. It is. I looked it up Alan I said, Okay, Alanis and Alanis, and I so I looked it up. The correct way to say it is Alanis. Okay? So I was saying it wrong, but consistently wrong, yes. So there you go. And I was inconsistent. Halfway right, halfway wrong, right. So anyway, right than me. So that is our correction. I am so sorry, Miss Morissette, we have now fixed our errors. Yes, absolutely. Well, hopefully she's not too upset. I know clearly she has listened to both episodes and loves them. So welcome. Alanis, did I say it right? Alana, yes, I did. Yay, good. First try without thinking about it. Okay, so then I have a little shout out, and it's to us kind of because you, dear listeners, are listening to our 50th episode. 50 episode, episode. So that includes everything that includes, well, I shouldn't say everything. That includes our Dawson's Creek stuff and any like trivia bonuses we gave you. It does not include our Patreon episodes, even if we put them in the regular feed. So yeah, 50 here, and then another 25 to 30 on Patreon. Many, yeah, once we started doing after. Shows it kind of started to add up. So if you have, just like, burned through all 50 and you're ready for more, head on over to Patreon. There's plenty more there, and growing every week. So I wonder who's listened to all of them. I don't know. Has anyone? Patrick, maybe make all gendy, all Gen probably the Jen's. Probably Patrick Carlos was catching up, but I think he's skipping around. So skipped a few. So may not have Yeah, let us know if you've listened to all of our episodes so far. I just want to know, yeah, maybe you're like, I've listened to all, but Dawson's like, a regular one that counts. That's okay too. We get it because that's a separate little micro series, but we're including it in our 50. So here's 250 more and 50 more after that. So times 5050, times 50. Wow, math. I'm like, so nasty. What that is, I don't know. It just sounds like a big number. So yeah, we can do it. We can totally do it. All right. Well, anything else, I don't have anything else it. Okay, yay. All right, so we're gonna just jump right in. And the way we are kind of doing this is talking about MTV in the 80s and the 90s, since that is our relevant generation, generations, decades. So we'll start at the very beginning with MTV origin. I want to make sure, though, I spend most of our time chatting about what happened once it was born, not how it was conceived. Okay? I mean, I'll briefly overview it, and just to, like, make sure everyone, Danny did all the research for this, so I am hearing it for the first time. In fact, I I was like, do I need my script? And she was like, Oh yeah, for the intro. So right before we hit record, I popped open my laptop, so that was my first read. Everyone, please be kind. And she's also like I had nothing to do with this research. So if anything's wrong, it's all Danny. I'm doing the disclaimer now, just by all the research, even if I didn't do it every single thing, but it's true, it's facts. So anyways, there's a really good documentary, though, on Hulu that was done by Annie, and it's called I want my MTV, and that actually goes into like, specific details and names of who, what, when, where, why, of the origins. So if you want to know all the deets, check it out. It's really good. It's it's a little over an hour long. It was pretty interesting. But here's a, here's a very brief overview. Okay, in the late 70s and early 80s, there were some major musical acts that had made music videos to kind of accompany their hit songs. Some of them, to just name a few, were the Beatles. In fact, they had A Hard Day's Night. Yep, nice. Bob Dylan, Abba and Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody, y'all may remember, yeah, but the concept and the format for music videos hadn't really been established yet. That wasn't a thing. So in 1979 um, there were some executives at the newly formed Warner, American Express, satellite entertainment company, okay, loat, yes, that's a lot of words, of course, the acronym, you're like, low I was saying, I meant to say LORT, and I don't know what I said. I'm sorry. Loat, it was a long name that we're not going to say again. Yeah. So anyway, this bunch of businessmen, they felt teenagers were kind of an overlooked audience, and potentially very lucrative, so they wanted to develop a television format to kind of target them. Hello, capitalism, of course, right? They're like, Oh, we can make money from teens, because cable TV was just getting going at this point in time, okay, but all the TV shows and stuff that were out didn't really cater to teenagers. It was, you know, older adults. They were a few kids things, but not teenagers specifically. So the original format of having music videos 24/7 was created by a guy, an executive named Robert Pittman. He later was the president and CEO of MTV Networks. Okay, so he kind of tested this format he thought of by producing and hosting a 15 minute show called album tracks on New York City's WNBC in the late 70s. Okay, so every time I think of WNBC, was it the Howard Stern movie, where he's, did you ever watch his movie? Yeah, and he's like, WNBC, where he's like the DJ. I think it is that one. I think so, what a weird memory. W n, w n, b, c, over and over. Brand would know if he was still here. Anyways, we scared him away with our real shenanigans. He's like, Are you guys good? Bye. I know. I think, I think that's what it is. Anyway. There you go. That's a little shout out to the 90s there. Anyway. So album tracks, he tested it out. People loved it. So his boss was a warner executive named John lack, and he actually shepherded a show called Pop clips, and that was a TV series that featured videos, and it aired weekly in 1980 on Nickelodeon, okay. Mm, hmm. And the show was actually created by a former monkeys member, Michael neesmith. You remember the monkeys? Yeah, the TV show. Hey, hey, by the monkeys. People say monkey around from like, the 60s, right? The monkeys? No, late 70s. Really, I think so. Should we google? I'll google while you okay, I'll keep chatting. So anyways, it was his. He created the idea. John lack put it into business, and it was a hit when it was on Nickelodeon, mid 1960s Okay, the monkeys were an American pop rock band formed in the mid 1960s so what was their show? Yeah, when was their show? NBC, sitcom, 66 to 68 look that up. But hey, well, either way, good, fast on the spot research. Katie, thank you, because I did nothing else for this episode, so I shall do all the cleanups research. Yes. So anyways, that was the their like idea. And they're like, Okay, we need to make this like a big thing. This needs to be like a regular channel. Um, so anyway, I'm just gonna cut out all the stuff. They got some other people's on board for an entire network that kind of looked like pop clips. Documents were signed, meetings were had, blah, blah, blah, things went on. And in December 1980 their team got the go to create MTV, Music Television. Okay, so they had the one show that was on Nickelodeon, yep. And from that, they had this proposal for an entire network, for an entire network. And like I said, the documentary goes into all the like, got it details of that. Okay. So that brings us to August 1, 1981 MTV cable network launched at midnight. Oh, yes. And it opened with footage of a shuttle launch. And the reason they used that video footage was because it was in the public domain and free to use because they had no money. Like they were brand new, they had no money. Oh, that's funny. And that was an actual it was an actual shuttle launch. Oh, my God. So, so when the channel came on air, they had this rocket launch, 321, and the words, ladies and gentlemen, rock and roll, yeah, by actually John lack, he was the one who actually started in here. And do you know, Katie, you don't when you probably just read it. I knew it anyway, but the first video played was Video Killed the Radio Star. Yeah, by the Buggles. Yeah, I like that name. I do too. Reminds me of the wiggles. Did your kid never watch the wiggles? I love them. Fruit salad, yummy, yummy. All right. Anyways, we're not talking about them. So that was when they launched. A lot of the early employees of MTV were young and inexperienced, and some of them haven't even worked in TV or radio. Yes, because this was a this was, like a fresh, new idea. This was something that never been done. So nobody knew if it was going to be successful, and it honestly, we'll get into it in a second. It took him a while to be successful, and I had people like really buy into this. But the cool part about that was they were just kind of given freedom to have ideas and create and on the documentary, one of the ladies was like, Yeah, somebody would be like, Well, how about this? And she'd be like, great, go for it. So I think to be an early employee of MTV was probably really cool. Like, you're young, you have all these great ideas. And when they launched, they only had like 250 videos total to use. Dang now they had a 24/7 Music Video Network. Do the math, 250 videos. Yeah, a lot of things on repeat. Yes. So that, because, like I said, it wasn't a big thing yet. And honestly, a lot of them were from British artists, because they were used to making videos for the show Top of the Pops, which was really popular in England, and MTV actually was eventually credited with the second British Invasion because of their music videos that were so popular. So was it like a royal Okay? Was it like a permissions thing or a cost thing, or both? Well, MTV had to pay for videos at first, right, right? I just think it wasn't, it wasn't something that was widely done yet. It wasn't a medium that was used yet. It was very new. Was a new idea. So that's how they got started. They were kind of on shaky, shaky ground there. The first VJ search was an ad in the classified. All right. Remember newspapers, young children are like, all typed up in the classified newspaper. Okay? And it was held at a Sheraton Hotel. Wow, yeah. And for those of y'all that don't know, VJs were brand new too. They were acting like DJs on the radio, where they would introduce the videos. So they were called VJs because they were introducing videos, right? So there were five, there were five original VJs. There were some radio veterans by the name Mark Goodman, Nina Blackwood and JJ Jackson. Then they had a young actor named Alan Hunter, and then a recent college grad named Martha Quinn. Hmm. So it was actually pretty fun to read about this, because the rich format they had for the VJs was they it was scripted, and they had teleprompters, and basically they were just reading a script off a teleprompter. But they felt like that was a little too stiff, because they wanted to be edgy and hip, so they got rid of them, and they just were given the freedom to ad lib because they said they wanted it to feel more rock and roll. Yeah. I mean, you don't want it to feel like a news broadcast, right? Like reading about it. And I think even on radio, if they have scripts, it's not always as obvious, because you don't see them also, I think the combination of seeing a person reading off a teleprompter, even if you can't see the teleprompter, you can tell right, plus the voice would make it more obvious, yeah, yeah. And, I mean, it did great, obviously it works. And they started doing, like, funny little little bits and all the stuff, and it got to be a lot more where they were going with it. So that was kind of their first beginning. So in March of 1982 all right, like a year, year or so at later, at this point, many major big city markets did not carry MTV in their cable channels when it was first released. So let me pause for a second and explain to people how cable used to work. So when you would get cable so you had basic access to channels. When you had a TV you could plug it in the wall, use your TV antennas, and you had like, four basic channels, right? And that was like the major networks. When cable TV came around, you could pay for specialized channels, so you would get packages, and not all channels were included. This. This probably seems like bizarre to our young listeners who have only known streaming, right? So you would get packages that would have certain channels, but some channels you would pay even more for, like HBO or, you know, whatever. But a lot of the the big cities didn't even have MTV because they didn't know what it was, and they're like, whatever, so they weren't even carrying it to be offered in the cable package. So MTV started a promotional campaign that was designed to get the network distributed and then to gain viewers once the channel was added to the cables lineup. Okay, this was when I want my MTV was born, which I did not know. I did not know. That's how it started, because I remember seeing it on MTV itself. But before they had the little promos on MTV itself, they were showing this kind of promo video on other channels. So and it was like, call your cable company and tell them, I want my MTV. So those of you all have never seen these commercials, have you seen them? Do you remember I vaguely recognized the phrase, but I don't remember the commercials, okay, at all. So they had basically what these commercials were, were famous musicians of the time would come on and say, I want my MTV. And that was it, like they would pay people say it, I want my MTV, and it'd be a few different artists like in in the clip commercial, sorry. And then for this particular promotion, they would say, call your cable company now and tell them, I want my MTV so the first artists use and the very first I want my MTV promo video were Mick Jagger, David Bowie and Peter Townsend of The Who, wow. So, I mean, it was 1982 and honestly, they did it as like favors for people they knew that were like some of the execs, like one of the execs that he told the story in the Hulu documentary was he knew Mick Jagger, like very far acquaintance wise, from work in the past, and he was trying to convince him to do this commercial for him, but they had no money to offer. Like MTV says, baby network, they have no money. And Mick Jagger was like, Well, why should this? I mean, I need to be paid. So the guy pulled $1 out of his pocket and said, okay, here, I'm paying you. And he's like, all right. And he did it for $1 Wow. Well, Mick Jagger, it's the principle of it. Yeah, I'm a professional. You pay me? Yeah, so, so, so they aired these everywhere, okay? And this actually worked so well that cable companies in different areas started calling MTV and asking them to stop airing the promo because they could not keep up with the demand, like they couldn't keep up with because you used to have it to have a cable person come install, remember, they would have to come install things to so you could access the cable channels, like a cable box. That's what I was, I was looking for such a hard word, they would come install a cable box so you could access other channels. But they couldn't keep up. So all these places, all these cable companies, were like, MTV, chill out. Like, quit putting right. It's working. Like, leave us alone. But it worked so well, and so then it kept growing and growing and growing and over the years, then they started having commercials just on MTV that said, I want my MTV. And it actually inspired a song. Do you know what I'm going to say? Okay, well, no, no idea. Caleb knows nothing about this is fun. Just staring at you. I know it's lovely. Okay, so it inspired one of the members of dire straits, Mark, I don't know if it's not Fleur. I see we Brandt here today to correct me. Mark Knopfler, not Fleur. Yeah. Anyway, member of dire straits, he wrote their smash hit money for nothing. Okay, do you remember that video, money, oh, and my chicks for free. And the chorus says, I want my, I want my, I want my MTV. The reason I'm singing that I want to remember what that sounded like. Because what he said was that, hearing, seeing those commercials, sorry, inspired him to write a song. And he said, I lost my spot. I don't want to misquote him. He said this quote. Said I'd seen the police doing an MTV advert saying, I want my MTV just saying it all together. And I thought if I said that to the notes of, don't stand so close to me, it'll work. Which is a police song, correct, right? So they have, I think I should, I meant to write this down. They used sting singing. I want my Um, okay, TV, which sounds like, don't stand so close. Yeah, close to me, yeah. So I was like, That's so fun. So that became a huge video, huge hit, and it was all from those commercials. That was his idea that's so crazy. It's wild where, like, people get inspiration, I know. I mean, ever like that? I mean that in a good way, yeah, like, you never know what's gonna inspire someone I know. And it's wild to me to think like that, this executive that paid Mick Jagger$1 to say one like, one sentence, it turned into, like, a catchphrase of a generation, like there were T shirts and merch and like commercials for decades that would say, I want my MTV. And it's such a simple phrase. Yeah, it's genius. It's so simple. It's genius, right? It's so simple, yeah, okay, so things started going well, until Uh oh, 1983 comes around, and there is some controversy in regards to perceived racism. Okay, I shouldn't even say perceived it was racism. There we go. So, Rick James, yeah, Rick James, here he comes. I love him, by the way. I super freak. I love that video and that song. It is a bop. Anyway, he spoke out publicly in several interviews about MTV is lack of black artists on MTV. Okay, he gave as an example that his video, Super Freak was turned down, but MTV said it was a little too lewd, which it's pretty out there video, but considering what we have nowadays, it's not but they also said they only played rock and roll music. It wasn't because he was a black artist, it was because he didn't play rock and roll music. Okay, okay, so that was what they said. That was their defense. Well, then David Bowie actually had a very big call out moment in an interview with MTV. He sat down for an interview with them, and he straight up called them out on their BS, wow. He was a huge advocate for helping them kind of realize change, as is somebody else. And I'll tell you in a minute. So he did an interview with VJ Mark Goodman, and he just straight up asked him in the middle of interview, why are there practically no blacks on the network? Now, the way, he said that, I don't whatever, but black people correct black artists, yeah, um, and Mark Goodman said that I'm going to just kind of read you the interview. Mark Goodman replied, we seem to be doing music that fits into what we want to play on MTV. The company is thinking in terms of narrow casting. David Bowie said, there seemed to be a lot of black artists making very good videos that I'm surprised are not being used on MTV, hmm. I like how he pushed back, yeah. Oh. He keeps going, yeah. And then Mark Goodman, he's caught off guard, right? And now he's a BJ, he's not executive. Then he just dug himself in a hole. Uh, oh. Here's some of what he said to in response to that, he said, we have to try and do what we think not only New York and Los Angeles will appreciate but also, Poughkeepsie or the Midwest, pick some town in the Midwest which would be scared to death by a string of other black faces, or black music, yeah, we have to play music we think an entire country is going to like, and certainly we're a rock and roll station. Oh, dear, ouch. And also, like how offensive to like people in those other places, basically saying they don't want to see black artists when they probably do, or that there's not black people living in the Midwest. Hello, right? Like, it's so weird, it's awful. So then David Bowie keeps pushing back, and he said, Don't you think that's a frightening predicament to be? In. And Mark Goodman said, Yeah, but no less here, no less so here than in radio. And David Bowie said, don't say, well, it's not me, it's them. Is it not possible? It should be a conviction of the entire station and of the radio stations, to be fair and to make the media more integrated. Wow, yeah. David Bowie, you go, you go, that's how you pass the mic. Everyone, absolutely, you are in a position of power, and you are being heard. And, you know, there's voices not being listened to, and heard you do. David Bowie, like, right, right, yeah. So that happened. It was a huge controversy. So was it a live interview? Then, I don't know it. I think it must have been, because I can't imagine MTV would have aired this otherwise. I It must have been. I don't know. I'm sure it must have been. Yeah, so, but then the controversy didn't in there. But then another person helped to get, kind of get the change going. So in March that same year, MTV rejected Michael Jackson's Billie Jean video for the same reason as Super Freak, because they said it wasn't rock and roll, it was pop. Well, CBS Records president, Walter yetnikoff, yes, Walter. Walter said, because that's who Michael Jackson's was, had his record deal with, he said he would pull all their artist videos from their station and exposed to everyone. They were being discriminatory if they did not air that video, all right? So MTV knew whether they aired it or not, it was gonna be a big deal, so they decided to make the right decision, even though they had to, like, they had to be threatened, right, not the right decision, but like right of they were backed into a corner, and they had two decisions in the corner. Yeah. They finally got their their act together, and they aired Billie Jean on March 10, 1983 and it literally changed the entire network, as well as music video medium in general. So he wasn't the Michael Jackson. Wasn't the first black artist to be played, but he was the first non rock or rock crossover artist, because there was a video with Run DMC and Aerosmith when they did walk this way, yep. And that video was on before that, but that's because it was a rock crossover, yeah, Run DMC was just guessing on that with a rock and roll artist, which is why they were already on. But he was the first black pop artist to air, which is insane, because how many videos did Michael Jackson end up? Oh, my God, I know. And he changed the game. Because not too long after this thriller debuted in December of 83 alongside there was a mini documentary called Making Michael Jackson's Thriller. Have you ever watched it? No, it's so good. Okay, okay, so they show, like, how they make the whole video. They show the makeup and like this, oh, it's so good. Look it up on YouTube. It's somewhere you can find it. Is it as good as our behind the scenes reels that we make? It's so it's fascinating. So they aired what, what they did on in December, they aired Michael Jackson's making Michael Jackson's Thriller documentary, and then the video came right after. So it was like this event, right? Nothing, nothing had been done like this before, and that completely changed the video game forever. The video music, video game forever. It just did. Because by the mid 80s, couple years later, MTV had a huge noticeable effect on motion pictures, commercials, television, and it changed the music industry too, because looking good, or at least looking interesting on MTV, became just as important as sounding good when it came to selling music, like making a good music video contributed to your records, record sales as much as playing your song on the radio. So go ahead, Michael Jackson, even though we have a lot of dilemmas with him, but as an artist, he changed the game. Yeah. So do you remember that video thriller? Oh yeah, girl, I love that video. Let me tell you what. It still scares me. It does. It's a great video. It's so scary. It doesn't take much to scare me. By the way, I am a huge chicken. But when I was a kid, I mean, I was little when this video came out, what year did I say? 83 I'm gonna just throw three when it came out, but they played it forever, yeah, and I can remember when I was, like, five, six, seeing it and being because my sister would like videotape videos. We'll talk about that a little while. And she was, she loved it, and she would watch it all the time, and it's scary. I would cry, and it would terrify me if it came on the radio. I would used to, like, listen to the radio at night, like I on my clock radio or whatever, and if it came on the radio station, I turned radio off. Oh, I know. I mean, it is scary. I think. I mean, and, like, they had Vincent Price on there. Come on, you. The scariest voice ever. Yeah, they, I mean, they need to be amazed across the land. That's horrible. That's not what he sounds like. Sounds like a drunk vampire. Never mind moving on. Okay, so MTV, like, changed pop culture, like, obviously, and at this point in the mid 80s, they are on fire. Everybody knows who MTV is. Everybody wants to be on MTV. You want your videos played, um, MTV. Really was a pivotal part in bringing success to newcomers like Madonna and Duran. Duran who used increasingly sophisticated techniques to make the visual elements of a video just as important as the music. So you can probably think of some of Madonna's videos, Duran. Duran, I think of hungry like the wolf, like where they're running through the forest and all the rainforests, I guess it is. But they also gave renewed life, though, to veteran performers like ZZ Top got in on the game. They had another like revamp of their careers when MTV, when music videos came about Tina Turner and Peter Gabriel, yeah, had like claymation in the video, yes. So they, um, each of them, scored the biggest hits of their careers thanks to heavy rotation of videos. Absolutely. Yeah, makes sense? Yeah, it really does. I remember, and this is way later, and I know we'll get into it, probably when we get into the 90s, yeah. But I remember that like my first strong memory of, like, watching videos first, and then wanting the album, which I probably got from a music club. Um, was TLCS, waterfalls, yes. I just remember, like a whole summer that that was on, but then all the other songs on the album, too, and seeing the videos and knowing the music because of the videos, before I even got the CD or whatever, right, that's like a strong memory of mine, and that was all on MTV, right? Yeah. I mean, and two, you know, giving life to performers who have been around well, because they just became relevant to a new generation, right? So they, like were able to capture a new audience that may have never heard their music before until they saw their video. Pretty awesome. So then we would go to 1984 and it was the first BMAs. Yeah, something very big happened there. Madonna performed like a virgin. This is what her you already know the performance I'm going to say, in her bustier wedding dress, combination with her little boy toy rhinestone belts, where she was like, humping the ground and like being all crazy. That was a big deal in the 84 like that was the first VMAs. Wow, yeah. And think of all the things that have happened at the VMA since. I'm thinking of Brittany with a boa constrictor. And then the Parma Donna kiss on one, yep, yeah. And every year there's some something. And then Kanye take Taylor Swift's award. Was that at the VMAs? Or was that a Grammy that might have been the Grammys. Me, it was, No, they wouldn't let him do that at the Grammys. It was probably the VMAs. I don't know if Will Smith can punch someone at the astronaut, wherever. Anyways, anyway. So that was 84 which is pretty fun. That's the first moonmen were given out. And that the reason they did that was because when they started the network, that was their footage they used all the time. They actually, they eventually stopped using that footage when the Challenger disaster happened. Okay, yeah. I mean, using it, that makes sense, yeah. And at that point they probably had money to not use it, I think so probably, but they quit using it, yeah, it makes sense. So then we've got now, we're now in 1985 okay, something big happened Viacom purchase MTV Networks from Warner Communications, super long name, and the shift in content was immediate and dramatic. So this is when programming started to change. And it was pretty quick. It was pretty swift. They knew what they were doing. And in the documentary, when I watched all the big wigs were like, yeah, they offered, like, us a pretty substantial check. So we were like, okay, like, show us, um. So the original five VJs were replaced. Um. Martha Quinn left in 86 but she came back in 89 I'm not real sure why or how, or whatever. JJ Jackson left also in 1986 and Unfortunately, he died in 2004 which is really Dang. Nina Blackwood also left in 1986 and then Mark Goodman and Alan Hunter left in 1987 so Mark Goodman actually hung around for a long time after his problematic interview, which is kind of shocking. Yeah, that's like many years past. But he's a white man, so they get away with everything. Is it the guy I'm thinking of? He has curly hair, brown curly hair. Yeah, tall. Did you like to host game shows too? I'm not sure. I feel like you Google his name and you see his face. He's a tall guy. I think it's the guy. I'm thinking, let me look at him real quick, yeah, but yeah, I think that's him. Yeah. That's who I was thinking. Okay, so they all left, and they they were replaced, and then so one of the biggest things that happened when there was the shift, instead of free form playlists of music that covered a VJs entire shift videos started to get packaged into like blocks based on genre. So this gave rise to specialty, specialty shows, like 120 minutes that came out in 1986 which is alternative rock, head bangers, ball came out in 1987 which was obviously heavy metal, and then yo, MT, Yo MTV Raps came out in 88 which was hip hop. Which brings us to what we're going to talk about with 1988 so in the late 80s, hip hop was huge. It was is becoming in the mainstream culture, and Yo MTV Raps was born. Now hip hop's been around long before 1988 everyone, of course, Yo MTV Raps came along, and Fab Five Freddy was the host. I remember him so much. And this show helped put hip hop in the mainstream, so it brought it into the suburbs, into our living room. Yeah, and so yo. MTV Raps was a kind of a unique show. And I thought I wrote this down, but I guess I just forgot it was kind of a unique show, because what they did, they didn't use the studio all the time. They would he would go Fab Five, Freddy would go to the rap artists wherever they were, like they, I remember one in Compton and or he'd go to, like, where they were doing a show and interview them there. He wanted it to feel very real and like go to the environments they were in. So it brought hip hop, not just music, but also culture, into the mainstream. Okay, so, yeah, that was a big, pivotal moment. That was late 80s. So that brings us to the 90s, okay, made it through the 80s, mid to late 80s. Viacom bought it, and there was a shift. It was kind of this. It was immediate. All these changes were happening. So by the early 90s, by the 1990s MTV was kind of a shift from music to pop culture as a whole, and they started introducing several new types of programming. They kept the specialty shows, like I just talked about, where the music were in clocks, but they brought in reality TV. They brought in game shows, cartoons, soap operas and even news. Yes, so the way we're going to talk about it, as we kind of switch decades here, we're going to talk about some of the programming from that decade, fun and our memories, because this is kind of more on, like, more of our time period of the 90s, when we were teenagers, young adults, where we will have a lot of memories associated, um, if we have any, but a lot of what the programming happened really was huge in impacting pop culture. So that's where we're going to go with the 90s. The 90s, the 80s. We just, I just kind of give you a bunch of facts and history and kind of the hows and whys and what happened. So, Viacom. Shift, we're in the 90s. Okay, so I said news. So MTV, news, do you remember the news? I do remember the host. Yes. I also just saw his name, but I do. I but without the picture, I see his face in my head. Kurt loader, yeah, yeah, I loved him. So he originally hosted a show in 1987 called This Week in rock. That's how MTV News started, but eventually grew into a newsroom that produced hourly news briefs between music videos. So every hour on the hour, they would come in for a little news brief in between shows, which I remember like, Hi, I'm I'm Kurt litter with MTV News, yeah, and I think he had a catchphrase, but I didn't look that up. But, and they'd also do like longer special reports on topics such as the Iraq War and sexual health health. And they even started covering political news with the 1992 election through its choose or lose campaign. And honestly, I remember seeing somewhere else recently that mtvs Choose or lose, and then they had Rock the Vote that actually really impacted registered voters between 18 and 24 it got them out to vote and brought political awareness into the younger generation. I can remember Bill Clinton being on MTV, yeah, and they asked him if he were boxers or breeds. Okay, so that was MTV. It was like, it was like a town hall, yeah? They remember that did, like an open Town Hall, yes. So that's, to me, that's pretty cool. That, like, they made news hip, like, yeah, you know, and made it cool to be a registered voter, like, no matter what your politics are, that's your right as a citizen. And I think a lot of times I don't know, I'm not saying people don't want young people to vote, but it's, it's not really like pushed on young people the importance of their vote. So to have a whole station saying. I mean, obviously anyone can register to vote, but have a station saying young people, you should, if you can, yeah, and here's why you should, you know, like these issues are going to impact you. This is important. And like you were saying, they did have, like, town hall with with presidential nominees, where young people could ask them questions, like, What's your stance on HIV awareness, or, you know, what is your opinion on, you know, the right to choose what happens to my body, and they would get to ask them the things that are relevant to their lives. Yeah, I think that's really cool. So MTV News correspondence interviewed notable people like we just talked about, they covered major music news, and in 1994 Kurt loader broke regular programming to announce lead singer of Nirvana, Kurt Cobain's death, and he was one of the first to report it. Wow. And I remember it. I was a huge Nirvana fan in 94 I was 14, and I remember that day when, when they announced his death, and then they devoted like, a whole day of programming for him, and I recorded it, my friend Katie, and I recorded it, and we would watch it obsessively, which is kind of weird, but teenagers do weird stuff. So anyway, teenagers be teenager, but I remember like, that was the first time I can remember, like, I've lost a lot of people when I was young, and that's sad, but that's the first time I remember like somebody young dying that was so important to, like, my teenage life, because, like, when you attach on to musicians or music when you're a teenager, it's because that's it feels like they're singing To you, or like it's relevant to your life. Yeah, I remember that anyways, and we talked about that a little bit we did with Alanis, obviously, thankfully, she's still with us, but just how, yeah, when you're hearing words that really speak to you, like we still pretty much knew every song on that list and could sing parts of it, even if some of those songs we haven't listened to in forever, because that's a foundational memory of when we did listen to it, yeah, and what was happening in our brains and our emotions, and hearing a person, a young person, say how we felt, right? You know? So, like you said, really feeling like this isn't, you know, an adult per se. I mean, technically, Kurt Cobain was an adult, but like, this isn't like a parent or a grandparent or a teacher or someone like that. This is like someone like me, who I really admired and just expected decades more music from, right that this happened to? Yeah, it was, it was tragic, but so that was MTV News. They got their start early 90s. So now we're just going to talk about some of the shows that debuted and on MTV in the 90s. Some you may know, some you may not, but there were so many I tried to just do some that were super relevant, and you'll see why I picked the ones I did. So in 1991 a show called Liquid television came out. I'm just going to read you the description that I am DB said, and I wrote that wrong. I wrote I am BD. That's I am BD. I love it wrong anyway, I am dB. This because I was like, How do I explain what liquid television was? Here was what they said. MTV is classic, surreal, experimental, grotesque, macabre and darkly humorous animation anthology featuring both serialized and one off segments, the show also features music videos and rare live action and Puppet segments. So many things. No. So as you can see by that explanation, the show was weird. It was out there. Did you ever watch it? No, I don't think I've ever seen and I've never seen it, if I remember correctly, I think it came on like, late at night. I think liquid television was a late at night, or maybe like, 10 o'clock later in the evening. I think I remember it coming on it like I said, it was super weird, and it was out there. But I did watch it. I remember watching it. And, I mean, I was a young I was 11. Think I remember watching 1112, um, even though it kind of like, freaked me out and grossed me out, sometimes I still and I didn't understand a lot of it, because it was adult humor and the puppets were weird, like, I still watch I was like, fascinated. It was like, so weird. And I was, like, so drawn to it, and I don't know why. So again, I was a weird kid everyone, as we know, but it actually liquid television introduced many characters that would eventually get their own shows. Two of the big ones were eon flux in 1991 she was like, this sci fi. Do you remember black hair and then Beavis and butt head in 93 so Beavis and Butthead were on liquid television before, okay? So they were like a segment of that show, okay? And so was the on flux, because it was like a, it was like a, like, they said it was like an anthology show. There's like little segments. Some were regular. Wines and some were just, you know, skits or not, skits, but segments, just for one show. But, yeah, they they got their own show after they were on liquid television. So be with some butt head came about 93 so I didn't do a whole thing on Beavis and butt head because I feel like we may have to do a whole episode. Yes, we need. We need more than five minutes on Beavis and butt heads. I really do think we do. I really think we do. No, I can't stop thinking about Ryan Gosling and what's his name, I don't know. Saturday Night Live, where they're just using butt heads. Like, those are the Beavis and butt heads I see in my head now, not the cartoon versions. I'm like, Oh no, it's those guys. So did you? Did you ever watch Beavis and Butthead back in that day? My brother really liked I loved it. I was 13 when it came out. So like, of course, yeah, they were just so ridiculous. They were ridiculous. And I actually had two, two little turtles that I named after them. And, oh, it also annoyed my mom to them, and she hated it when I watched that show. She hated because it was, it was obnoxious and gross and, you know, right, body humor. I was gonna say potty humor, yeah. And she hate it. So of course, I got these little pet turtles. And I was like, well, guess what, Mom, this is Beavis, and this is Butthead, and I hope that just put a dagger right through your heart. It's like, oh my god, Danny, really? And I'm like, yes, you're like, and I have one. Meanwhile, she's just rolling her eyes, like, get this child. I know she I'm telling you, I was the youngest, and my sister seven years old me. So my mom was tired. She's tired. Name your turtles after an obnoxious MTV cartoon. Great. Anyway. So I didn't go into much about using my head, because I think we're gonna revisit them, and another one we're gonna revisit, but we have to talk about today is a show that debuted on MTV in 1992 the real world. Dun. Dun. All right, I have to just read the intro to the OG real world. Here it is. This is the true story of seven strangers picked to live in a house work together and have their lives taped to find out what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real, the real world that, wow, that's so good. You said you're gonna read it, and then you started going, and I was like, What if she's performing this, this is not reading. Well, what I was gonna do was try and remember who said what in that original one. And like, I can't be Eric. Nice. Everyone anyway. So the so the this was the real world, was the beginning and launch of the reality TV genre. Everyone, like younger kids, you may not understand, they started it. So the interesting thing about this show, though, was it was actually inspired by a few things. The Creator said they were inspired by a 1973 PBS documentary series called an American family. I've actually watched it. It's that was the very first reality show. They literally follow an American family. Pick it up if you can find it anywhere. So that that documentary series plus 1990s youth oriented show, Beverly Hills 902. And no plus Alan fun's 1948 show, candid camera. So all of those mixed together, which kind of makes sense. You think, oh yeah, throw that all in a pot and mix it, you get the real world. Yeah? People in a house, yeah? People having cameras watching them different classes. I mean, they were aware of like they were young and cute and hip. Yeah. So this real world was, is, sorry, the longest running reality show in history. It was on from 1992 to 2017 Dang, and that's not counting all like their little like reunion, blah, blah, blah, and it is the longest running program in all of MTV history so far. Yeah, and we're not going to talk too much about it, because we are going to definitely have an entire episode on real world. So that was on for 25 years. Craziness. Wow, 25 seasons. Did you watch the OG real world? I've seen episodes. Okay, I didn't watch it from, like, beginning to whenever. I mean, 92 I would have been 10, yeah, so, but I remember, like, I've seen some of the episodes over the years. Yeah, yeah. I did watch it. I was 12. Look, guys, I watched stuff when I needed watching it. It was the 90s. That's what we did business, but I did what we did. Like, I said my mom was tired. Nobody was monitoring me. Anyway, I did watch it, but I've watched it in reruns too. Like, yeah, yeah, it is seven, seven strangers. And I love the original series season because it's so different from, like, the late. Seasons, because they had to get jobs like, you know, they had to pay bills like, they had to do all these things diff and it felt more it felt more real than Now, granted. I know it wasn't scripted, but I know there were situations producers like set up whatever. But to me, it felt now, you know, like when you watch reality TV, it's kind of formulaic, and they it's, it is scripted. But this was like the beginning, and it was great. So we're gonna have a whole episode on that. We're not going to talk anymore about it. The only thing I will say was, I did audition for real world back in the day. We'll talk about her, about that. Yes, I have heard the story. Would love to hear it again, because I have other questions about the story. But we will say, wait. We will save it. So you guys have to write us and be like, we want our real world episode. We won't do that same ring. I was just thinking. So we were just talking about how reality TV. I mean, yeah, air quotes, so it would be interesting. And maybe I'll do this, since I haven't watched the whole thing, to watch, like, that first episode of the real world, and then, like, this summer, I watched dealer no deal Island. And, like, watch that, right? I didn't even know that's a thing, dealer no deal Island. That sounds terrible. It is. It's so on there bad but like, I couldn't stop watching it. I don't what's his name, Joe, whatever. He used to be married to Sophia Vergara. I think they recently got divorced. He's really, really, really good looking. Anyway, the audience is yelling at us. Carlos is yelling at us, but anyway, um, he's very good looking, so there's that you can watch it for him. He's just like the host guy, but literally, it's like, they don't call it survivor, but it's like, survivor meets Deal or No Deal. Oh, that sounds awful. So you have to do these, like, it's crazy that you would like to talk about awful. You have to do these, like, outdoorsy challenges, like ew wading through a swamp to get a suitcase, and then like, and then like, whoever wins gets immune anyway, and then, so this is all very problematic. We might do an episode on it. You know, Deal or No, deal had all the models. So then there's this whole second half of the show where you earn different points doing the survivalist stuff to get to like, pick suitcases of money to, like, take with you. Or, I think, I think the concept is you keep pulling it the whole season, okay, and then people get voted off and kicked off as you go, kind of like, survivor. It's wild. It's like a mash up. But I was watching it, and I was just like, this is so, like, the drama was so manufactured, yeah. And like the I was just like, This is so predictable. It's like, every trope of reality TV, yeah, also, like several different shows kind of challenged together, yeah, yeah, it was something. But I think, like, the juxtaposition between that and then, like, the first episode of the real world would be really interesting, because there's always been a little bit of manufacturing that's going on, Oh, for sure, but just the way that that has escalated in 2530 years, yeah, might be interesting. Well, it is on paramount. Plus, if you have paramount, okay, so I do I still have it because my stepdad hasn't figured out we're still opting we have everything because we want to watch like, one show and then we keep it, although I did convince my husband for years I was trying to get rid of cable, and every time I would get the bill, it just go up and up and down up, and I'm like, why don't we even watching? And he'd always be like, sports like I can't get, oh yeah, the array of sports that I want. Finally, he went on and figured it out so that we do YouTube TV now, so we do pay for that, and then we pay for separate streaming, but it's still, like, way cheaper, and we canceled cable, and so far he can get all the sports. But you know what's funny is, you know, we're talking about a cable network show. And, you know, cable network, sorry, yeah, MTV, right. We're almost like, back to where we might as well have Kate, like, we have all these streaming things, so then you're paying all this money for all it, but then it's like, somebody said the other day, would be great if you could just pay one price and get all the channels. And I was like, You mean label cable, we're almost back there. But like, seriously, it's crazy. But anyway, so back to cable TV programming and payday. So speaking of real world OG, there was a very attractive young man on the show by the name of Eric Meese. He was a model. Do you remember Eric? Well, he brought another show into popularity right after his real world days, called the grind. Oh, you don't know the show. No Stop. Oh, I can't wait to tell you about it. So the grind was basically a show that featured young, good looking people dancing to dance in hip hop hits. That's it. People dancing looking cute, that's all in their fashions. Yeah, it was like, what's another show that's like. Like Soul Train, you know, was like people dancing to soul music. Yeah, it was. And Eric was one of the hosts, okay, one of the OG hosts. But basically, yes, it was just young, good looking people dancing to hit music. And I obsessed, loved it, probably because he was the host, can't lie, yeah. And I was pre teen, pre teenager. So it was recorded in a studio at first, but then they moved out of the original studio set, and so they recorded in several different locations, like Spring Break beaches and New York rooftops. And the grind also spawned several aerobics workout videotape. I totally had some because capitalism. Oh, my God, they were so fun, though. Okay, my girls who listened to this podcast, who went to college with me, well, remember those tapes came with VHS tapes came with me to college, and I'm not kidding, we would do these in my apartment. Sometimes we go to my sorority house and do them together. I mean, it's like we were, we said in this separate episode, how I said my mom used to do sweat into the old days, yeah. And they were so fun, because it would almost feel like you weren't working out. Yeah? Well, I mean, you were just having fun. Cop aerobics, right? Yeah. So it's dance aerobic, like, you know, Zumba is really popular. It was like that, right? Crunch the the gym crunch was the ones who produced it. And I think back in the day, they would even have classes at crunch gyms, okay, before they were like a huge nationwide thing, because they were more like a special teacher. And I think they would have, like the grind Hip Hop aromas class. That is so great. Anyway, if you Google it. Google up the grind workout, VHS, and you're gonna see some interesting they're great workouts. Like, they're super good. And he's gonna say, maybe you know how, like, there's all these different fitness trends. We just need to bring that one back. Let's see what happens. Well, I don't know. There's some toxic diet culture nonsense in there. Like, yeah, but Eric nice is adorable. He is not the best workout instructor, because basically, they have, like he was a workout well, they have like the fitness instructor, and he was like, her sidekick, okay, it's kind of a mess. I was like, Wait, he was a great dancer, because he's a dancer too, right, right? And he is adorable, but, um, maybe don't get, like, your fitness advice from him. Maybe like the other lady that's there, yeah, and then just like, look at him when you're like, I can't make it anymore. Oh yes, I can, but they're really fun workouts anyway. So the grind was a big dance show in the 90s. So then we're gonna move on to, um, a show that debuted in 1994 called the state. Do you know about this show? No, what? Oh, this is like missing out on something. I will say, I think the 90s. A lot of people say that that MTV went downhill in the 90s when they stopped playing mostly videos. But I'm telling you, some of their programming in the 90s was glorious, and this show is one of them. So the state was like sketch comedy show, and it combined like bizarre characters and scenarios, and they made fun of everything, even their own network, like even MTV, yeah, it was great. It was kind of like SNL for teenagers, yeah, maybe young adults, because a lot of their humor was like, you know, it was wacky, and the cast consisted of a comedy troupe called the state. It was 11 members. They created, acted, wrote, directed and edited the show. Dang right. Wow, I know. Here's the thing, there was only one female, oh, 10 dudes. And I completely forgot that until I was and I was like, Oh yeah, because I did watch this show, they only had one female member, so it was fairly common for males to be in drag playing females. Why wouldn't you just have female, I don't know, in the cast? Great question. I mean, you, I've heard there's that story with SNL where Sherry, O Terry wanted to play someone, but they had Chris Catan do it in drag instead. Like, I'm not, I'm not saying, like, that can't be funny. Like, I guess it can be depending on it. But like, if you have literal, I know female presenting people who would like to play those roles. I mean, even, even Tina Fey and Amy Poehler, like, all the things they faced when they were going to be the hosts of Weekend Update, and they're like, oh, we can't have two women. And they're like, why not? You always have two men. You've had two men. Like, what's the big deal? Like, yeah, sorry, that was a little rocky. There it is. It only took us to 1994 the state to get to it. I mean, we mentioned it, but not it. Should directly call it out. But anyway, the state's hilarious. I use me and my my friends used to watch this show. There were so many glorious skits, one of them Doug, and he had this catchphrase. And he'd be like, I'm out of. He and then there's this character called Blueberry Johnson. Okay, sorry. Like, y'all have to look this up. If you watch the state, you're laughing right now. I'll have to watch it. If you've never watched it, you're like, what? But it's, it's bizarre, it's weird. But the thing is, you probably will know some of the actors that were in the state, because a lot of them have worked together on a lot of projects after that, for zennial reference, several were in the TV show, Reno 911, okay, several more. And also the movie, what Hot American Summer. So you'll recognize them when, if you go back and watch some old episodes. And they also had a lot of cameos from celebrities, but it was a great show. So that was the state. Now we're getting into MTV, first dating show, 1995 the show singled out from here. Now I know you know single, I know singled out. Okay, I loved single. I did too. So singled out was a dating show. Like I said. They had 50 single women competing for a date with one male contestant, and 50 single men competed for a date with one female contestant. So it was, that, was it? There was no it was very binary. Yeah, very binary. That's a great way to explain it. This show was supposed to be kind of a hip, comedic spin on traditional dating show formats. They want to be fun and young and not like love connection, where you're like sitting there with on their couch, on the purple on the purple couch, right? So they had two hosts when they started. It was Chris Hardwick and Jenny McCarthy, yes. So Jenny got her start as a Playboy model in 1993 before she was on singled out. And the funny thing is in 1997 Jenny left to do her own MTV show called Jenny, and she was replaced by Carmen Electra, who also was in Playboy before she was cast. So I guess you had to be in Playboy before you were talking about the double mint twins in the 90s. Remember the barn stable twins? Remember that? And it was like, so they were popular for gum and they posed in Playboy, yeah? The end, the end period. I mean, it was like, I mean, absolutely, clearly, nothing wrong with that. But it was sort of like a career elevator, yeah? Like, if you've done that, then you can host singled out on MTV or whatever. But the best thing about Jenny McCarthy, I think, when she was on the show, and this was like her, when she got to be really big, was she was this gorgeous, beautiful Playboy bunny who was hilariously funny and she was gross. She would pick her nose and make fart jokes and like, she had the potty humor and the obnoxious stuff, and you just hadn't really seen that, you know, right? And those, she had kind of contradictions that lived together, and that's why I think she was so fun, like, that's why girls loved her as well, right? You know, because you can't be pretty and gross and funny, like, and her personality, yeah, it was just so, so so big and over, yeah, and like you said, not something we necessarily had seen right before. So what do you remember about this show? Because now that you finally remember, I was like, I have not. I said we were going to talk about memories. And Katie said none so far. So hopefully, like to remember the show. No, okay, no, no. So my brother liked that show. Those are my memories. Um, okay, so, like, I remember the 50 people. I remember that because there's, like, phrasing around that I just remember, and I don't remember how they couldn't see the people, and then people would leave, right? So they had three rounds. The first round was just like that. All the 50 people were off to one side. The person who is selecting the date was on the and they couldn't see but they had categories, you'll remember, yeah, but they had to pick from. So he'd be like, Okay, I'm gonna go with hair. And it would be like, okay, red, blonde, brunette, and he they would have to eliminate one of those groups. That's what it was. I knew it was an elimination, yeah, know how? And so if you if he said blonde then, but then he would see them as they were leaving, because, if you remember, they would give them a golden ticket. So if they saw somebody leaving that they thought was attractive, and they wanted to say they could give them a golden ticket, and they'd be back in the got it. And then the second round, they would have like questions or like challenges they would do. And then the third round was like, I was trying to, I was reading the explanation. I was trying to remember this. It was like they got to move forward or back certain places, like, Oh, if you, if you can get, I don't remember I can now, I'm going to mess it up, but it's like you can move forward, and it gets closer to the date, right? Move forward. One. If you don't, you move back, or you just don't make it at all, or you get eliminated, yeah, yeah. So not everybody got a date that was on singled out, right? Or that's a different show, so the contestant would end up with a date? Oh, yeah, I guess so. Or is it possible they would run out of people? Well, I. Yes, because there's several people in round three, so whoever was the last one standing, that's what it was, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, okay, well, now we remember, now we're getting there, see, dusting off, but it's funny, I mean, but basically, like when they were casting for the show, when they were finding contestants, they were just looking for attractive people. It wasn't really about actually making a compatible pairing, yeah, yeah. And, I mean, that was a part of the reason, you know, you would watch right, kind of, like, although I don't remember this grind show, they would just grind, this grind program that the kids are watching and learning dance moves on. But yeah, it was, it was like a it was like, one of those things, like, where you were just, like, impressed by the youth or the style, or right, whatever. You know, it was literally like, let's have a half hour show. I think it was a half hour where we have 102 really, really attractive people, 104 if you count the hosts, right, and people will watch that right? And they did. And then something funny that I forgot about until I was researching was they had like, several mascot characters that would pop in here and there. The most notable one was Bob, the angel, and he was cigar smoking Cupid. He was kind of in a bigger body, and he would come out like, I don't remember the logo. Okay, I remember the logo. You would remember what is he called Bob Angel. You remember when you see old Bob? Remember, and everybody out there google it when, if you're not driving, yeah, oh, you don't remember him. This is not it. Uh, oh, okay. These are because we're middle aged Bob the angel, but I should probably get singled out, yeah, because I'm getting all kinds of weird stuff here. I'll show you later. No, thanks. Okay, so, okay, he's coming up as a Wikipedia All right. Okay, so, like, Is this him? No, I don't know what's happening. I'll show you later. Oh, Katie has, like, some statue, like, We'll chat later, Gargoyle, I'm like, That can't be him. Okay, no, I'll show you moving on. Moving on. All right, so moving on. 1995 we have another reality show come in the mix, inspired by the real world, which is road rules. So, yeah, did you watch road rules? Yes, okay, I liked that show. So road rules was developed after the success of the real world, and this show followed five to six strangers between the ages of 18 and 24 just like real world, but they were stripped of their money, and they were restricted to life in an RV, and they traveled from location to location. So they were they were guided. They had a set of clues, and then they had missions to complete this show was the pioneer and travel adventure reward reality television. Okay, yes, right, right. You had all the other ones. What was the what was the one? The race one? Yeah, amazing race before the amazing yeah. So they were kind of the pioneers and this type of reality show, I think you and I should go on The Amazing Race. No, I'd lose Oh, I'm not adventurous. Yes, you are. I mean, like, if it tells me to do something gross, I won't do it. I'm not trying to go through some rainforests. Like, I don't if I have to pee outside, it's not happening. Like, I just if I have to touch reptiles, I don't want that. There's a tent involved. Oh no, no. So I would be absolutely terrible on any reality. In fact, funny thing is, Cooper and I were just talking about how, because he's been reading the Hunger Games. So we watched the first movie, and I was like, I'd be dead in five seconds. Like I'd be dead when they call my name is tribute, because I'd pass out of fear, yeah, just die of fear. I would be dead. I will never be the last one standing in an apocalypse because I don't know what to do. I have a better game show that we should be on, Supermarket Sweep. Oh yeah, okay, shopping at the grocery store, yeah. And I was like a reboot of it that was on, that would be hilarious. Should figure it out. I could also do Family Feud, although it's not as funny anymore. But anyway, moving on. So that was road rules. Not really much to say about that, except what we just said, what we just said, except that Danny's not doing it. Prominent memories of roads No, I just remember I liked it. I like real world better than road rules. I feel like you fall into one of two camps. You either they're a real world or road rules person from the MTV generations. Yeah, I think. Okay, so in 1996 they had a show premiere called Loveline. Yeah. Did you watch Loveline? I did. Okay. So this was a weekly television talk show, and it aired from 96 to 2000 I didn't realize it was on that long. And it was hosted by Drew Penske, who was a doctor and addiction specialist, and then comedian Adam Corolla. It was an adaptation of Loveline, the radio show that they both hosted at the same time, which I didn't know that I didn't know. Okay, that was they, they had the radio show first, and then it became a TV show. So, so the show always had a third female call and host, i. Um, eight different women appeared in that role throughout the show's run. I don't know why they had so many Yeah, um, and then there was usually, like a celebrity guest as well, like an actor or a musician. And so that whole group of people would take questions from an offer advice to teenagers and young adults. They had audience members, and then they had people who would call in on all kinds of subjects, like sex, relationships, drug use. I remember domestic situations to it was an advice call in show. I remember learning a whole lot of things I did not need to know, watching Loveline as a 16 year old, right? Well, but on the other hand, I mean, I guess, right, like they were having honest conversations about truth, yeah, I wouldn't watch it. I am sure I did. I don't have any, like, memories that stand out specifically of anything that I was like, Oh, they talked about this or that, right? I think also just through, like, pop culture, like, I remember maybe some of the topics and, like, what people have said about the show over the years. I'm wondering now, reading it, like, how you would vet people? I mean, it was probably edited after so you could take some stuff out. Well, I do, I do remember sometimes being they were like, problematic responses. Like, that's what I'm like, a celebrity guest who was like, kind of an asshole. And they would say, like, but it was usually Drew was like, the doctor Dr Drew was like the level headed person who would, you know, bring it back. And I remember they'd argue sometimes over stuff. But there was most, most, what I remember listening to was like sex advice question I was gonna say, I feel like that's like the whole of the show, and then maybe calling love, yeah, so sex, dating, yes, all those things, yes. And I mean, I remember this show, I did learn a lot. I didn't need to know yet. But also, I mean, they did talk about stuff like, you know, safe sex and different types of sex and how to stay safe and, yeah, so on the positive side, like you were saying it was, it was a good learning show, but they did say problematic things, here and there. But when you, I don't know, I it's just so many opinions. I know you know you know what I'm saying. Like, if you're talking about two regular people, you can kind of figure out what they're probably gonna say, right? But then the female host rotates between eight people, so maybe over time, you can narrow down what she's probably gonna say. But then you also have a celebrity in there. I just feel like a lot cool, like, there's, that's a lot of opinion, I know, and really only one of those people. I don't know who the women were that were on the show. Maybe they were licensed psychologists or something, but they probably had a mix of like, what their expertise was. But of those people, you only really have one right who's an expert on giving advice medically and otherwise for these things, that's a little, a little scary, I know. So that was that was that show. So now, of course, I had to throw a cartoon in the mix, besides beat us in butthead. Hi, Katie's like, great. So in 1997 the cartoon series Daria premiered. I was just seeing her in my head, and I just Googled her really quick to make sure it was the person I was thinking. Person I was thinking of. But yes, so can I describe what she looks like? So she's brunette. She's got these, like, what do they call? Them? Like, coke bottle glasses. These, like, thick, black, circular glasses. She's not smiling, like, very serious look on her face. Green jacket, kind of like plaid, you know, private school kind of skirt looking thing. She's got her arms crossed over her chest, so she looks like a very serious teenager who potentially isn't happy about anything. Pretty good explanation, I'd say, yeah. And this, you kind of hit the nail on the head. I love that description. This cartoon series focuses on Daria, and that is voiced by Tracy Grandstaff, and she actually was a character on Beavis and bedhead. She wasn't like a huge character, but she was in the show. Daria was a smart, dry humored, somewhat misanthropic, cynical teenage girl who had a best friend aspiring artist Jane lane. And the whole show is just them, like observing the world around them. It's set in a fictional suburban American town of Lawndale, again, with the dale like, yeah, yeah. And it's kind of a satire of high school life, okay, yeah, like Lawndale, she speaks very dry and just Daria, yeah. So the plots of Daria largely concern like a juxtaposition between her jaded, sardonic cynicism and then. The values and preoccupations of the suburban, all American hometown. So it was perfect for me. I loved it so much. Me and my friends adored it. We watched it all the time. And actually, the reason I put this in there was because the whole reason this show was created was because MTV wanted to bring in a higher female demographic. Okay, so I liked that, and I think it worked because it was great. It was great. You said you and your friend. Oh, yeah. Watched it. Really. Love this shit. I mean, I saw who she was in my brain before I looked it up. I think you'd appreciate it, even though it's a cartoon. I think I would, I think you would appreciate it. And I think it is still, I think you can still stream Daria. I know in 2020 they brought it back on a few okay, like streaming. I don't know if it's still there, but I bet you could find it on YouTube at least. But anyway, that was Daria. She was great. I want y'all to just go watch it, because it's just funny, but it was perfect for cynical teenage girls. I'll just put it that way, so it worked because they wanted to bring in a female demographic, and done. And you're like, I was already there, and so was my friend, and we watched it. I was already there, but, you know, audience of two, no, it was popular show. It was a popular show, yeah. And I think teens today, y'all would still like it. I think it'd still be relevant, except we didn't have cell phones yet, except for that, yes, but, you know, she deals with, like, the typical, like, high school stereotypes, like the head cheerleader and the football player. I remember the cheerleader too, so maybe I did watch this show, or it just was, like, very much in the cultural awareness, yeah, that I, like, know what these, of course, like capitalism, there's tons of merch. Topic or, well, in the next show we're going to talk about, I think would play clips on commercial, probably, because the next show I watch a lot so anything they Pro mode. Well, we're about to talk about which you may have like in your brain narrowed down to what I feel like, maybe there was, like, commercials or promos or something that maybe I would have known the characters from that. Yeah, probably so, so, so, like we're saying we have one more show to chat about in the late 90s, and that is from 1998 It premiered, and that is Total Request Live. Now, I was 18 when this show came out. I did not really watch this much. I remember I would put it on sometimes, like after school, which is when it came on, but I was busy and I didn't really watch it. But Total Request Live was hosted by Carson Daly, and it played the 10 most requested music videos of the day as voted on by viewers via phone or online, which would that was a new thing, right? Yep, the show generally aired Monday through Thursday, so school days for one hour. Though, the scheduling and length of the show fluctuated over the years. Sometimes it was longer or shorter or whatever. And something I thought was interesting was TRL was billed as a live show, but many episodes were pre recorded. I actually didn't know, I know. And the live studio audience was not added until 1999 so it started off without a live studio audience, and then it got, I just remember the studio in Times Square, yeah? So you would have like the audience in there, but then out on the street, you would have all the fans too, yeah. And then, of course, you know, you'd have, like, the artists who came in, Britney Spears and sing Quebec Street Boys, Christina Aguilera, like everybody. And then, you know, they would have the little mic and perform in studio, yeah, sometimes they would, like, Premiere a song, yes, or a video, sing a song, and then it'd premiere their video. Yes, yeah, there was a lot of that. And Carson Daly, right? So, yes, big, like you mentioned. I mean, he's still around hosting sign that's like him, him and Ryan Seacrest have made, like, for real, a career, just of that. I mean, they're great at it, I know, but it's like, this was kind of when you think of TRL back then, and now you would mean you think of Carson, Dale, Carson, they're the same thing, yeah, yeah. Like, you think of the same thing. It's like, Pat say Jack and wheel of fortune, Yeah, Alex Trebek and Jeopardy, exactly. It's so true. So you did watch. You did watch, yeah. So this timing is perfect, really, because I would have been 16, okay, when this came on, 15, going into 16, probably. And so I would come home from school then, and my dad would be at work, and my mom would be at work. And so I would just come home and, like, you know, make snack, whatever my brothers were maybe there, maybe not, maybe doing sports, and I would turn it on because, like, no one was there to turn it off. And I just, I don't even remember watching it my room. I would just watch it in the living room while I like, did other stuff if I was home. And so I saw a lot of good videos this way. And a lot of the artists I like were on, yeah, because it was the top 10 videos requested. So it's probably teenagers calling to quote and vote and vote, and you can vote as many times as I'm sure I vote. I'm sure I was gonna say, Did you positive I voted? Yeah. I'm sure you positive. Yeah. I didn't really watch this. This is the only one I didn't have big memories. For Yeah, so I'm glad you did, or it would have been boring for us. Look at me at the end coming up with you memories. I mean, honestly, though doing research for this was really hard, because MTV is a whole entity in and of itself, to dive in and just be like, let's talk about MTV was rough because we didn't even go into the 2000s at right? So we just focused on 80s and 90s. And in the 90s, I could have talked about way more other shows. People are probably like, why didn't you talk about this show and that show? Chill out. I'm sorry. You can add Danny with your complaint. Sorry. I mean, we're gonna talk more in depth about the real world. Maybe I'll do more in depth on Total Request Live, because there's probably some like, I mean, I'm sure behind the scenes drama, even, even I wonder, like, what you were saying about black artists. I wonder if any of that played into some of that too. Like, I don't know. Like, yes is probably yes. I might have to look into that. Yeah. So maybe, okay, well, maybe we'll have a TRL episode as well. But that brings me in. This was a long episode, so maybe should have done a part two parter, but we didn't. That's okay. You can always pause it and listen to it as if it is two parts. You can listen to it tomorrow, except you're already here. You're already here, so you listen to it today. Whenever that I know. I mean, this was a lot of info, so thanks for sticking around and soaking it all in. Thanks for listening to generation in between. If you loved what you heard, share us with all generations all around and if you didn't like us, that's fine, but come back again, because we may talk about something you will like exactly, although, if you made it this far and didn't like us, I'm confused. I don't have a long time, but you never know. Maybe you're one of those people. I'm gonna give them the full episode to decide. But like Danny said, If this wasn't your cup of tea, we have this is episode 5049, other options. And depending when you're listening to this, there could be 100 plus and options for you. And at the bare minimum, you will always learn something, always, always. And we don't always love the topics we're talking about. We've talked about cartoons a lot, and Katie is like, great. You know, I think I need to give cartoons another shot you do? That'd be, I think I do. I think that we've mentioned a few that I'm gonna try. I am never gonna watch Snorks. Ever, ever, you're missing out on 80s wonderment. Oh well, anyway, okay, all right, we're gonna call it the best to go. But we're gonna record our Patreon after show. So if you want to listen to that, head on over to Patreon and tune in and we will see you guys next time. Do you have a witty phrase for the end? I don't I meant to write one down, but call your cable company and tell them I want my MTV. That's a good one in the before we see you next time do that. Yeah, let's see what happens. Okay, and the AI can be like, I don't understand if you would like a person, okay, next time bye.