Jagged Little Pill: The Xennial Album of a Lifetime

Did it rain on your wedding day? Are you short but healthy?

We want you to know... that we're happy for you... getting to travel back with us on this episode about one of our favorite albums of all time.

Welcome to our two-part series on Jagged Little Pill. In part one, we talk about the 1995 album from Alanis Morissette and share our memories, song by song.

Be sure to tune in to part 2 about Jagged Little Pill: The Musical.

This episode was made possible by the following sources:

Jagged Little Pill via Shondaland

The Story of Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill via BroadwayWorld

Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill via NY Times

Jagged Little Pill Fun Facts via EW.com

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Transcript

Dani Combs: 0:01

Did you ever blast the song you ought to know on repeat on your bedroom CD player after your first big breakup? Did you ever find a black fly in your Chardonnay or get a traffic jam when you're already late, or have 10,000 spoons when all you needed was a knife if you have one hand in your pocket, and the other one is given a peace sign. You might be a xennial, and we are too. Hi, I'm Danny and I'm Katie, and you are listening to generation in between, a zennial podcast where we remember, revisit, and sometimes relearn all kinds of things from our 80s childhoods and 90s teen young adulthoods. And you may have guessed, but today we are talking Alanis Morissette, specifically her album, Jagged Little Pill, an album that defined women of a certain generation like us. Yes, hint, hint, we're also going to be discussing the musical in part two. So this is like a two parter that was inspired by the album, and that musical is also called Jagged Little Pill, but we decided to split it up so we didn't have to rush any of the research. And you know, we're huge musical theater fans, so be sure to listen to that one as well. But before we get going on any of it, I think we have a few shout outs and maybe a circle back. So the first one is to say happy birthday to our devoted listener and guest, of course, and friend, Carlos. Yay. Happy birthday. It's always fun to have a birthday on a Saturday, Friday or Saturday. Yeah, we are recording on Saturday, July 27 in case y'all want to mark his birthday down for next year. Next year, get ready. Yeah. So we already talked to him this morning via text and said, Happy Birthday. But of course, I wanted to give a little shout out. It'll be a few days before he hears it. But a happy birthday, Carlos. And what else do you have? Okay, so I have one correction that is not from Carlos, it is from my own child. So, oh, sent via text while we were in the same house. Do you do that all the time with your kids? I do, yeah, it's ridiculous. Uh, so he was listening to our brat, um, our brats documentary episode, okay? And he texted me that we never said the rat pack members. Okay, okay. So I thought, I thought too, but maybe not all of them. I think that's what it was. We missed somebody, because I think we said Sammy Davis, Jr, Dean, Martin, Frank Sinatra. And then we blanked. Maybe, I don't know, but he texted me and said that we forgot Joey Bishop, okay, but what he did not say was that we also forgot Peter Lawford. Oh, okay, so that's five. Five, okay, five members of the rat of the Rat Pack, okay, which was one of the inspirations for the Brat Pack name, as we did disco. Okay, so anyway, thanks, Cooper. Yeah, this has been the corrections with Cooper. I love it. Look, we're we're open to relearning. We are, if we forgot a thing or whatever, we're happy to hear more about it. All right. Well, um, did you have any others? I don't think so. Do you? No, that's it. Look at. So, so let me just kind of preface this by saying, when we decided we wanted to do Jagged Little Pill Alanis Morissette, we decided, Oh, we want to include musical and so we split it up. Yeah, so Danny's doing the album specific research. So obviously, just because I've been alive this time period, I'll probably know some of this, but I haven't read in yet what she's got on here, so I'm hopefully learning for the first time some things, along with you listeners. And then the part two, the musical, I took the lead on that research because she's the only one that's seen it, because I've seen it. So I'm gonna try not to have spoilers. I'm gonna try to explain it the best I can without spoilers, but that'll be the other part. So, yeah, Danny, take it away. I'm so okay. We're gonna talk about our own personal memories about this album after we get through, like, just the history. So I'm just gonna give some background. I know we have some listeners out there who love it when we throw in the research. Yeah, so we'll go research first. So save your stories till we get to our memory piece. It's coming, I promise. But I found out some really cool facts about this album and about Alanis herself. Yay, yay. I'm excited, and I bet I think you are going to know a lot of this. So let's talk Jagged Little Pill was Alanis Morissette, third studio album. She was 21

Katie Parsons: 4:47

I wouldn't have thought third, right? Because this is the, this is the first thing I remember from her correct doesn't necessarily mean anything. I'm sure we'll get into that, but I would have just assumed this was a debut album. Well, I.

Dani Combs: 5:00

We'll get there. She had two albums released prior. I'll just jump right in there and I'll go back to what I was gonna say. She's Alanis is Canadian, okay? She's from Canada. She had released two dance pop albums prior to Jagged Little Pill. What? So this was her first alternative type of music album, not dance pop, yes. And if y'all want some entertainment, y'all need to Google. I can't remember now the video name, but it is hilarious seeing Alanis Morissette popping around to like little dance pop music anyway, fun 80s trivia here that I'm throwing in. Alanis was also a child actor. Did you know that? I did know that. I don't know like that. I know the specifics of it. She made several appearance appearances. Oh, that was early. I'm messing up words already. Okay, she made several appearances on Nickelodeon show. You can't do that on television. And she used her earnings from that show to cut her first single, which was the dance. Yeah, she was pretty young. I mean, she was a teenager, right? Because if she was 21 when her third album came out, I would assume she was probably 15 or 16 when she was cutting that first one, maybe a little higher. Did not research that. I'm just guessing. I don't know, time it takes to make albums? Yeah, I'm not sure, but probably, I mean, she was definitely a teenager, for sure. I don't know where in the teenage spectrum, but yeah, so Jagged Little Pill was her first kind of different album, and kind of more true to her vision. It was co written, sort of, and produced by a guy named Glenn Ballard, and it was released on Maverick records, which was the label that was co founded by Madonna. Oh, no, yeah. So it was released on june 13, 1995 I was 15. Katie was 13. Yes, yep. Um, and so here's, here's some just numbers. I know you love some numbers, Katie, I do okay in the US, Jagged Little Pill debuted at number 117, on the Billboard, 200 and it peaked at number one in October of the same year. So it came out in June, by October, it was number one, okay, okay. Almost three months after it was released, it sold more than 33 million copies, and in 1996 Alanis was the youngest artist at the time to snag a Grammy for Album of the Year. Wow, yeah. So it eventually that was replaced by 20 year old Taylor Swift in 2010 then in 20 2018, year old Billy Eilish. So Alanis held that down for a while, yeah, yeah. So 96 to 2010 Yeah, yeah, 14 years, yeah. She held down. And Jagged Little Pill is one of the best selling, best selling albums of all time, and one of the most successful albums in music history with numbers, yeah, yeah. I love that. I know she's also, she also held the record for the youngest artist to be certified diamond in the US, until she was beaten by ya girl Brittany. Yes, her debut album, baby, one more time in 1998 but still, she held it down for a few years. Yeah, a couple years. And that was like such an age of young performers to like such a rise of that in, really, 90s. So that would have been hard to to hang on to. I'm thinking of other artists of the time period too, like even Christina Aguilera, like people coming out with albums that were probably going platinum or diamond or whatever around the time. So that's pretty good. It was pretty interesting that you're gonna love this. This is one of the, my most favorite pieces of info. I found most of the songs on this album began as a transcription of her interior monolog she had while she was living alone in LA. She spent a lot of time rollerblading on the Santa Monica Pier. Um, interestingly enough, the song ironic was the only song whose lyrics she wrote with Glenn Ballard. The rest of the song lyrics from all the other songs came directly from her diary. What? Right? Okay, so you're saying she wrote all the songs, but Glenn Ballard co wrote ironic. They co wrote it together. Yeah, came from, directly from her journals, pretty much. Wow. And that cool, which makes sense, and we're going to talk about that in a minute. This as a singer yourself and a performer, you're going to be blown away. Get ready. Okay, sit down. You're already sitting. I'm sitting. All right. So each song on this album was recorded in just one or two takes only. That's it. What? For real? She told Billboard that that was the shortest distance from the personal to the universal. So they said one or two takes. That's it. That's what she wanted for the whole album. Um, so

Katie Parsons: 10:01

she, I guess she kind of, I'm just hypothesizing based on that quote that you just shared. She wanted it to be as close to like, the vulnerability and raw feelings. And the more you perfect, quote, unquote perfect something, the more rehearsed it sounds. Yes, which for some songs and albums, that's totally fine. Oh yeah. But she wanted, it makes sense that you're saying these journal pages. She wanted it to be as close to like what she felt there, even if, and this is not me knocking Atlantis, don't come for me, even if maybe parts of it weren't like perfect per se, right? Like from a sound perspective or a tone perspective, she preferred that now, and maybe you'll get into this. I'm thinking, when she was recording this, she was probably 1920 whatever, if it came out when she asked 21 and she doesn't sound like her first two albums were like, hugely successful. So how did she have so much artistic pull? Because you hear of people like Brittany at the time and their stories of her wanting to, like, not use a baby voice, and they were like, No, you have to. Like, how did Alanis kind of be able to advocate for herself this way people listen to her? I don't know that's interesting, though, right? I know it is, it is it worked, obviously, and good for her, but like, I can think of other young performers at the time that they just did what they were told, right? And I don't think it was an easy road for her. I mean, there's some songs on her album that we'll get into that directly address some of the BS that she had to deal with with male record execs. Okay, so we'll get there. We'll talk about that. I don't think it was an easy road, but, yeah, I don't know. I think, you know, she has such a unique sound. And there, I think, too, during this time in 95 you know, now, we have so many strong women musicians, not that we didn't then, either, but it was, it was definitely a turning point in music. And her voice was we had never heard her voice, a voice that sounded like hers. And what a direct way that she was calling shit out, really much, you know, pretty much. And that was kind of, I now we're gonna get into, like, our personal memories and feelings about the album before we go into direct songs. And I was thinking about, why did this album resonate so strongly with our generation and even now, like I still listen to it and absolutely love it. I mean, teenagers still listen to this album now. And I think the reason for that is which now that we know it came from, directly from her personal journals. It's raw and honest emotion, like, plain and simple. It's also full of women empowerment, like so much of it, we didn't have a whole lot of that yet. Like, we had cutesy, like, Spice Girls and like girl power, and not that that there's anything wrong with that. That's wonderful, um, but I feel like that she was so direct and so strong. Plus, like I said, her vocals are just so unique. Like listening to it with Cooper, he's like, Why is her voice doing that? I'm like, because it's amazing, because it can, it's not a traditional voice. She can have those traditional sounds. But she had, like, you can hear an Alana song and know that it's her, you know, totally. And I think, like her songwriting just feels very vulnerable and deep, and it feels like a journal entry. Because, duh, it was like, and they were all thoughts, you can listen to that album, I feel like, and at least have one song where you're like, Oh my God, I feel that exact same. So I don't know. So yeah, and your personal thoughts and memories, and just really quick, like not to jump ahead to the next episode about the musical, but spoiler, a lot, a lot of the people in the musical weren't born when this album came out. Obviously, the older characters, yeah, but um, like, some of the people who played teenagers and stuff, and so I found, um, the story about those younger people saying that to prepare they listened to the album, uh huh, and that they said, basically what you said, they would have thought it was made like yesterday, right? Like, still relevant. It was. They resonated with it. They thought her voice was amazing. Like, over time, I'm sure they'd heard some of the songs in pop culture, but they all, you know, sat down and listened to it beginning to end, and some additional songs too, that are in the musical. And they were just like, Yeah, this is contemporary. Yeah. Like, this isn't from 30 years ago or whatever this is. This makes sense, yeah? So kind of goes with what you're saying, yeah, for real. So I remember be, I was in middle school, and this, this is gonna sound crazy, but I just remember it being almost like dangerous to listen to, oh, like she's talking about, basically, like, especially you ought to know this, yeah, just like anger, anger and sex and no apologizing for it. It correct, yeah. And maybe dangerous isn't the right word, but when I was that age, I felt like, Ooh, I'm listening to something, right? Well, you grew up in a pretty religious house, yeah, yeah. And I had actually been home schooled until around when this album came out, and I had, I was back at like, a regular school. It was a private school, but it was much different than just being with my mom, especially homeschooling back in the day, because you didn't have online classes, you didn't have didn't have a job, co ops you could go to, it was like, me and my family, and like, I'd play with my neighbors, and that was about it, yeah, so, um, I just remember being like, whoa. Like, this is being played on the radio. Oh my gosh. But I loved it. Oh yeah, I absolutely loved it. And that non apology, I know, as I got a little older, because I was 13, so once I was like, 1516, and like, experiencing like, actual breakups and things like that, I was able to sort of like, draw on, like, the feelings that I remember thinking it's okay to, like, feel like this. So yeah, people get angry, and you don't have to just swallow that anger, right? And be like, Oh, this is, you know, I need to be polite, or fine, or whatever, like, it's okay to feel like this. And also, and I didn't know this about the journaling. I guess maybe I knew this back in the day, and I don't remember that I knew this, but I don't think I did. I was a huge journaler. I mean, I still am, so I still are, yeah, I still am. But as a teenager, I mean, for real, some of these journals, same girl, same Wow, you would not. I mean, it'd be funny to make an album of my turn on. I i read back through, like, in recent years, I my mom had found some stuff of mine that we thought was long gone, and my diary was in there from like, around 1112, ish, oh my gosh, girl, cringe tastic. So great. I love it, though I absolutely love it. And I saw this meme once, and it was someone taking a picture of like their diary page when they were, like, 10 or 11, and it was like two sentences, and it was like, Well, tonight we celebrated the Fourth of July. I can't believe it's a new year already. This is crazy. And the person like, put wow, I was really an idiot, like, when I was 11 or whatever. But I'm like, I feel that. But, um, so the journaling I wrote, I feel like I wrote some pretty deep stuff. Me too. Yeah, me too. In fact, I even found in there, like, pages I had ripped out. Oh, I love that. And I had some with, like, a black sharpie. I was like, dang, if that's not a statement. I don't know. Black could probably have way fun with that. Like, I don't. I have no idea why I ripped the pages out. That is so great, right? Well, you know, I always say, oh, it's probably at my parents house there, literally is like a box of journals there that got moved so my like, teenage bedroom. The short story is other family members live in that house now. So my parents moved out of that house. There was still, like, random things because a family member took over so they didn't, like clear out the whole house got it. So my sister in law found some of my journals. God help her if she read them? I don't think she did, but it's okay if she did, because wow, that was probably a good time. But she just sent me a picture of them, and they got moved over to my parents, so I just need to, yeah, get them, and if I find a really juicy or cringy page or 10, I will share with listeners. Okay, I just had a great idea for an episode, as so happens to both of us when we're on here, I used to write poem. Were you like a poem writer? Yes, okay, I actually had one published when I was in I want to say I was like 12 or 13. I It's awful. It's so sad, like I was so dark, like I wrote some dark stuff, and then I found this, all these poems I used to type them on a typewriter. Yes, why? I don't know. I think I felt like I was like, so important, like writer, we need to bring it in some of, like our teenage writings, and read them. Yes, because I guarantee there's other people who are gonna be like, Oh, my God, I wrote stuff exactly. I love this idea. So I'm going there in a couple weeks. Yes, okay, well, I have a list of things I'm looking for anyway, like photo albums and stuff, poems, journals, and then we'll just, like, spend an hour, like, going back and forth reading our, like, top things, oh God. And there'll be some cultural stuff in there. I'm sure, like, I'm sure I watched this, or I, you know, oh my god, I was rollerblading and, oh my god, okay, and focus back again, all right. So that's really all I remember about it. At the time, I remember listening to it, and I definitely got the CD through a CD club. Nice me too. So I listened to it like in my room, and maybe, like, once I did have my driver's license. I think it was, like in my CD pack in my car. So like, throughout the years I've I've listened to it, yeah, that's like the extent of my memories of it at the time I

Dani Combs: 19:51

so I was 15 when it came out. And, I mean, man, that was the best album for a 90s teenage girl. Girl and her all her angst the best, I feel like, the difference between 13 and 15, two at the time, at that time, especially, it probably did speak to you more than much, than me, yeah, probably, probably because I was in high school, you know, yeah. And honestly, like, I just, I loved it. I loved it so much I didn't have a lot of limitations on what I could listen to or watch. Because, like I said, my sister is seven years older than me, so my mom was just tired. So, like, whatever. Um, but I loved this album. And actually, when she went on tour with this album, I saw her on this as a teenager, yeah, I saw her at the New Orleans Superdome. Um, must have been 96 with a big group of friends. This was back in the 90s guys. So like, somebody's moms, not mine, dropped us off in a couple of vans. We had a couple of vans. I don't know what they did. They probably went to dinner or something. I don't know, and then they came back later. We had no cell phones, no way to contact us. Just meet us at this spot at 1115 correct? And that's the other thing. Concerts are unpredictable. Oh yeah. So you just have to kind of guess when they should pick you up. And they might just be sitting there for another hour or two, and then all of a sudden they see the people streaming out, and they're like, Okay, I guess it's over. Not like a cell phone where you can be like, Oh, it's it's done. We're walking out, you know, yeah, so that, it was a great concert. I still remember it to this day. And of course, we were, like, in the nosebleeds or whatever, but I still have the ticket stub somewhere. I think I put it on our concert. I think you did. I think I did. I remember because we looked at the price, yeah, we Oh, that's right, we did. But I remember I used to like cry and rage and just feel all the feels when I listened to this as a teen. But you know what? I still do that as a middle aged lady, listening to this album like I can it's wild to me that she was so young and she wrote such like important lyrics that continue to speak to women, well, all people, generation after generation. I mean, like, what hit me as a teen still hits me as an adult, just obviously in different ways. And there's some songs that hit me now that did not hit me back then, and we'll talk about that when we get into specifics, yep, but I am just like she was, she was a young woman, and wrote this like, these were her thoughts and her feelings, and it affected so many people. That's why it was I think that's why it was so popular. I mean, it sounded great. Some of the songs were real catchy for radio, but the songs I liked the most never played on the radio. Yeah. So yeah. And it kind of goes back to, like, what we say, and it's partly because we have teenagers, and in general, we're around young people as performers and me as a teacher, but like, the thoughts and feelings that young people have are amazing and valid, oh yeah. But also, I'm thinking she was so brave. Oh, sure, sure. I don't think I could, like, put my journal pages out there. Now, like, if I post a journal page in my story, because there's, like, one thing I want people to see, I black out the rest. So I'm like, I don't want people to know that I said that probably something totally normal and fine. And the people like, oh, good for you for like, writing that down. So think of how brave you'd have to be, I know at this age, partially, just to share it with anyone, to share it on the big scale. And as I mentioned, and you've mentioned, there was no one out there doing this, so you didn't have really a precedent to follow, right? You were just like, I'm going to be brave and say all these things, and either I'm going to totally crash and burn, or people are going to be like, Oh, why did you say that? Or, right? Or it's going to be a huge hit, right? I mean, I don't know. I think that this album is is wonderful for so many reasons, but all the things you just said. So now let's talk about the song. We're not going to play sound bites because I don't know we've done that before, but now I'm like, worried we're good, yeah, because we're like, starting to, like, make it in the algorithm, so we don't really want to mess that up. And you all can just listen to this with better sound quality than through a mic on your own. Yes. And if you know, if, I mean, if you are a zennial, you probably know all these songs anyway. Yeah. So as we say them, you'll just, like, sing the lines you know, really quickly. So okay, I do have just some, like, facts and trivia on a few songs, some things to chat about, and then we'll talk about, like, our favorites and why. Okay, okay, so one of the songs you want to know, um, Katie, what do you think I'm going to talk about with the song about looking at my No, it's about, yeah. I mean, I haven't read through that part of the notes, but good. That's like the constant, constant mystery. The constant mystery of is, is this song about Dave Coulier, who played Joey on Full House, did I say his name? Right? Dave Coulier, Dave covid, yes. Is is it about him? So before I get into that, I'm gonna talk about it. The answer will surprise you. This was the first single release from the album, okay? You want to know was the first single release, and I did not know this, but it features Red Hot Chili Peppers flee on bass and Dave Navarro on lead guitar. Wow. Did you know that? No. And again, like, how, how I don't know, how I don't know. Wow, not in a bad way. I'm glad, but I'm just like, how did she? People must have just believed in this? Yeah, they just believed in it. So here we go. We're gonna answer that. The heated question everybody wants to know, so is it about Dave covid? The answer is, maybe, okay, all right. So the reason this all came about was he said in a couple interviews he did that at times he thought it was about their relationship due to some very specific references to things that happened in between them, although him and Alanis are on good terms, like as of today, like they're still on good terms, yeah, but Atlantis says she will never disclose who the song is about, and multiple people have asked her If it's about them, not just Dave covid, other people have been like, oh, that's about me, right, right? But here's what she said, and you're gonna love this. So she was quoted as saying this about it. I don't know if you want to take credit for being the person I wrote you ought to know about. She joked. I just think if you're gonna take credit for a song where I'm singing about someone being a douche or an asshole, you might not want to say, hey, that's me, right, right, although I will say it's kept Dave coulier's Like, name in the pop culture, like, longer than he would think. I mean, I guess he was on some episodes of Fuller House, but, like, he kind of died out after full house, except for this whole mystery, where people talk about him. Yeah, so she never has said, and she said she never will. She'll either say who it's about. You know what you want to know. My thoughts, yes, I think it was about a lot of different people, because if you listen to the song, there's lots of specifics, but also the specifics could be very general too. If you have a bad breakup with someone, especially when you're young, and you have a bad breakup, it's a lot different than when you're older and you have a little more maturity and wisdom under your belt. But yeah, so there you go. That's the answer to that mystery. I think it's probably mainly like a main person, especially if it came from her journal pages, but that it may sprinkle in some references from other people. Yeah, the very specifics, this is terrible, but my mind immediately goes to, do they mean the movie theater? Oh, right, like, and they're like, specific, I know, fines. And I'm like, that, is that the one you mean? Because that's a that you would remember if that was you, right? But it could have been several use I was gonna say, but maybe not. If that's like your thing, if that's your thing, that might not be you. Dave, sorry. Could be other people actually, you know what? Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go through the songs and order, okay, because I have like, little tidbits, and then we can, when we get to one, if it was one of your favorites, chime in. Okay, let's do that. Okay, so the very first song in the album was all I really want. Then there. The second song on the album was, you ought to know that was the first single release. Great. We're just changing things up this morning. Let's do it. Hey. The third song was perfect. Oh, how does that one go? Because now I'm thinking of pink song, perfect. I just listened to it in the car. It's the one where they're talking about, I love you if you're perfect. Like, it's about, like kids trying to get their parents approval. Okay. I just can't think of the TAs I know I just, I was just singing it in my cars are literally singing it in their cards. It's never quite enough. Let's edit this out. No. How many times do I have to tell you? Okay, yep, got it. Got it. Yes, those are not the right lyrics, but that's that was just Yeah, yeah, no. It's in my head now. Thank you. Okay, just wanted you to sing. I know she's like, staring at me, like, No, we're not editing this out. Gee, Danny, I don't know what this song sounds like. Can you let me know? So that was perfect. Okay, wasn't one of my favorites. It's okay. It's okay. I mean, it's good songwriting. Um, next one hand in my pocket, popular song, and this is one of your favorites, right? This is one of my favorites. Um, I will, and I'll get into this again on the next episode. More. I always liked this one because it's a great little Bop, but when I saw it performed in the musical, and I kind of saw like people singing it to each other in the context of a storyline, yeah, I really felt like I heard some of the lyrics for the first time. Interesting. So this is definitely, like, one of my favorites of all of hers, but definitely on the album, I love that. I like this song a lot. It's not one of my it's not one of my top threes. But I love how in this song there are two things that are supposed to be contradictions, but they aren't really. So it's like showing that everything kind of exists in the gray and not the black, and. Right? Like, two things can be truth at the same time. Yeah. So, like, she says, for instance, like, I'm short, but I'm healthy, I'm brave, but I'm chicken shit. We're gonna have to put an E, because I have dropped so many curse words. It's just gonna have to happen. Like, obviously you can be healthy and short, right? Of course, obviously you can be scared and brave right at the same time, yes. So, like, it's like they're supposed to be contradictions, but they're not really contradictions, right, which I think was her entire point of the song, like, or maybe it wasn't, I don't know. We'll talk like things that are opposite aren't really right, yeah. And I love, I like, I love wordplay. Like that, me too. I think that's very smart, and I love it when it makes you remind yourself like everything doesn't have to be this, or that it can be this, and that, in fact, most of the world is this, and that, yep, I love that. I also wrote, like, two things that are related to myself. I was gonna say you picked the short line, man, the brave. But I'm taking a shit because I am so I am a scaredy cat. So yeah, the line that speaks to me, and this is weird, this is 42 year old me, though, is the hand in my pocket and the other one with the peace sign, yes, because, again, these things can both exist. I feel very strongly about, like, social issues and political things, but I also, like, just kind of keep my hand in my pocket most of the time, so sometimes, depending if you're, like, in person, talking to me, but I'm very protective of, like, my public facing, of that for a lot of different reasons. Okay, and so that kind of that line reminds me of me. Got it how sometimes I'm just out here telling you something symbolic, and other times it just got my hand in my pocket. Yeah? I'm just gonna keep it to myself, yeah, I think that's a lot of us. Yeah. I think that's a lot of us. So the next song on the album is right through you. I love this song so much, and my kids know when I'm listening to this album in the car. First of all, they dread it because I sing every single song. Yes, this one immediately bumps up the volume as loud as it can go. And I am going to sing it, and I'm going to sing it very loud and probably off key. And the reason why I love this song like I even wore my tank top today, yes, I have to work out later anyways. And it says, smashing the patriarchy is is my cardio anyway, because this song confronts patriarchy, misogyny and sexism. And she wrote this song as an F you to the record execs who dismissed her and tried to sleep with her as a young lady Oof. That's gross, but, I mean, that's what it's about. And I love the third part of the song where she's like, you know, now that I'm a thing, now that I'm a zillionaire, you scan the credits for your name, you wonder why it's not there, yeah. But, like, listen to these lyrics. She says, You took me for a joke. I'm not singing this one. You took me for a joke. You took me for a child. You took a long, hard look at my ass, and then played golf for a while, ooh, ouch. Then she says, your shake is like a fish. You pat me on the head. You took me out to wine dine 69 me and didn't hear a damn word. I said, Wow, burn. I mean again, bring it. Alanis, I love this. Yeah, I love this. I like that song too. I didn't list it as one of my top three, but I do like that song. I love it so much. I just it's such a it's such I love. And knowing that she wrote that intentionally to certain people, to be like you dismiss me. You didn't listen to me. You just saw me as like a little young piece of whatever, and I did it without you. So peace out, and you're gross, also disgusting, also gross. And then the next song on the album is forgiven, another one of my favorites, and this, this is one of the songs that hits a little different as an adult than it did as a teen. But I didn't, I didn't necessarily not understand that as a teenager. That's very like a backwards way of saying that. But this is the song that talks about religious hypocrisy, mostly Catholicism, and the shame and guilt that's placed on women and their sexuality. So I remember re listening to this song as an adult, like just a few years ago, and I had heard it in years, and I remember I literally was crying in my kitchen because I felt it so much and so differently, especially in the era I was in with, like, my own faith journey and realizing certain things and healing from trauma and all the all the thingies. But that song, I think, is a very powerful I mean, all these songs are powerful, powerful, right, right? They're all powerful songs. But, I mean, she's like, taking out all these different things, right? Like, it's not just the misogyny in the record industry, which would be a big thing in and of itself. Yes, also the misogyny, and I don't know, discrimination or unfairness of religion, which is interesting, given a lot of the trials that the Catholic Church would face like in the coming decades, that a song like this is almost like telling the future, even that wasn't like future stuff, it was they were getting in trouble for, like, yeah, a past history of things. But, like, she was already talking about it, like, 95 right? Basically. I mean, and I did not grow up in a in the Catholic Church, and I don't think that this song has to just be about Catholicism. I mean, honestly, it could be about any kind of faith that has the same views on sexuality and women. Yeah, you know, I wrote down some of the lyrics, but I feel like I could have just wrote down the whole dang song where she was saying, she said, I never forgot it confusing, as it was no fun with no guilt feelings. And I was like, man, there's some truth in that. So, and we'll have to, maybe we should do an episode on purity culture, because that was a huge thing in the 90s. Oh, wow, true love, weights and all the Ooh, Hades. I know, I don't know. We haven't done, like, a super serious one. Since we did diet culture, we just were like, Okay, we're done. Yeah. I mean, I'm not, I'm not afraid of them. It's just we've had so many fun things like, let's do it. But purity culture, I think we could add, I know we have one on, potentially on the AIDS epidemic crisis, which we've sort of been scooting to the side till we have, like, the proper time and attention to really research it the way we should. But we could. We could add purity culture there. I would have a lot to say. Same yolks anyway. So moving on to more fun song as you learn Yep, and I listed this as one of my top three. If you've seen the musical, you're probably like, well, you like that because of the way they do it. The musical I can't wait, which might be partially true, but it's similar to, and you know me, if you listen to our Dawson's episodes, I love a good line, I love a good lyric, which is albums completely full of totally but like one hand in my pocket was my other choice. And you learn is similar where it's all these, like micro ideas put together, like one hand in my pocket, you're like, talking about one thing and then nothing, and then another thing. Yeah, and then another thing and another thing, and they all have a through, through line. But, and I think you learn this like that, and that's probably why I like it, because it's talking about lots of different examples and details, and then it, of course, has, like, a great melody, and you can, just like, Listen. You can listen to it if you're feeling sad, you can listen to it if you're cleaning your house. You can listen to if you're just like, jamming out in your car. Out in your car. It's like an everything song for me, yeah, and I really like it. And I like it too, because it's like, you never stop learning, really, I mean, like, in that it's like you live you learn. Like it's true as long well, you should always be learning. Let me correct that, because some people think they're done learning, and that's not true. Hey, look at us on here. Oh my gosh. This has forced us to fall, to learn and relearn on a weekly basis. So all right, so the next song, we both have one as one of our favorites, so I'm so excited to talk about this one. So the song head over feet is next on the album. And you know, people think, sometimes think all the songs on this album are just rage filled, and many are, and I love them. But this one is just a nice little like romance song. Yep, it really is. And and me and my first little serious boyfriend in high school, this was one of our songs. Oh, I know. Isn't that cute? That's a door. I totally wrecked it, like I totally broke his heart. I we had the worst breakup, my bad Joey, sorry. It's totally my fault. Like, yikes, but he's doing great. He's having a great life, so don't worry about it. But this was one of our little songs, and every time I hear it, it's just so nostalgic, yeah, like, that cute, little innocent time, and the lyrics are just, they're just so cute. Like, you're the best listener that I've ever met. You're my best friend, best friend with benefits. Come on. It's really adorable. I think I like it for the same reason, and also just this, like wordplay. Actually, you say, like, your head over heels for someone. So instead, the title is head over feet. So right away you're intrigued. Yes. You're like, well, what's this about? It could either be paralleling that idea, which it does, or it could be, like, rage filled and totally opposite. What's it gonna be, you know? And then you listen to it, you're like, Oh, that's so sweet. It is sweet. I love and I love the line where she's like, I never felt this healthy before. I never wanted something rational and like, I felt like that when I was with my husband, like when we started dating. So I was like, Oh, this is, like, a normal people relationship. This isn't a crazy person relationship or what, or whatever. Yeah, like, this is, this isn't toxic, yes, this isn't healthy and calm and oh, that's what it's supposed to be, right? That's such a good song. Okay, so we said all our favorites, except we will talk about one more that we both talked about we liked. Yeah. The other songs were Mary Jane, which was actually about eating disorders, okay, ironic, of course, which we quoted and our opening love, ironic, not the doctor. I don't love that song. Remember that one lying to me so I really don't. I can't remember how it starts. Oh, words, I'm not, I don't know, I don't remember, I can't, literally, just I kind of skip this one sometimes, yeah, it's not my favorite. And then wake up, I do love that song. That one's good, yeah? But so there was a secret song on this album. This isn't something that is done anymore with streaming music, which is kind of sad. There's not secret songs, right? Because it just streams to the next correct thing. So for those of you young, young bucks out there who don't know what we're talking about, so on a CD player, you could there was a button where you could repeat a song over and over, like we mentioned in our intro, or you could put it on a repeat loop where you would listen to the whole album and then it would automatically loop around again. There was a secret song on this album that you could only access on the entire album loop. Okay, right? So if you're in your bedroom, you're doing your homework, or you're just feeling sorry for yourself, and you have the album on, and you have it on the loop this song would play. And it was a very creepy song, but it was very powerful. It's called your house. It is sung totally a cappella, which is beautiful and haunting. So good. It's kind of stalkerish. Like the beginning of the song says, I went to your house, walked up your stairs, went through the door, and nobody was home. Then she talks about, would you forgive me if I dance in your shower? Yes, that's the line that I'm like hearing in my head, like, Would you forgive me? So it's basically about a heartbreak somebody who is no longer with their partner. They go in their house when they're not there and are just being a stalker, and then they find a note from their new love interest, and it like wrecks them. That's the whole song. This is a really, probably stupid question, yeah, but can you find this song like on Spotify now? Yes, okay, so there on Apple Music, in fact. Hold one second. Yeah, okay. On Apple Music. I know I don't know about anybody, anything else, but I wanted to see if I could find it. There is Hold on. I'm gonna pull up this album because I've been listening to it like crazy, and now I need reading glasses, everyone. So what are you wearing now? Well, reading glasses are for up close. I have glasses to see far away. Okay, you here for my far away sight? Okay? But I'm gonna have to get, like, bifocals eventually. Everyone that's, oh, I have horrible eyes, so I'm not laughing. I know because you're wearing glasses. Danny, for those y'all that don't know, I do have glasses anyway. So if you go to the album on Apple Music, you can see there is a you ought to know, that's a number two. But then there's at the bottom you ought to know that says, Oh, don't play it. Come on. That is a, I'm trying to see what the full title is. How do I look at that? Oh, here we go. There's one at the very bottom that says, you ought to know, Jimmy the saint blend, slash your house. Acapella. Ah. So it's a like a combined so you have to listen to the whole song, of you ought to know, and then wait for like a minute or so, and that song will start. Okay? So it's kind of the same ideas, same like vibe, yes. So you still have to kind of wait for a second. My husband had never, did not know this was a thing. He did not know it existed. He had never heard the song till yesterday. Did he like it? Oh, yeah. He's like, Oh, I like that. I mean, and she's, she has a beautiful voice. For those of you who aren't singers, it's really hard to sing acapella and sound good. Even if you're a beautiful singer like Katie, it can be hard sometimes to get that note right, or, like, I mean, they've heard me try it on this podcast. Sounds wonderful, but you know what I mean? Like, a capella singing is hard, so hard, and especially, I feel like songs that are in minor keys. Oh yeah, right, which that one is where you've you've got that, sort of, like, lots of flats and like half steps and sort of whole steps to kind of give it that, like eerie sound to make, like those small little movements with your voice and still stay in that key that you're supposed to be in is very tricky acapella without music guiding you. Yeah. So it is a great song. It's really good. I remember being so excited to find it because I Cooper, I was telling my. Kids this morning. He's like, Well, how did people know it was there? Because, you know, we didn't have internet guys, we didn't have texting, you just it was word of mouth. Yep, and I don't know if somebody told me it was there, or if I, like, found it on my own. I think a friend told me, because I have a specific friend. Her name was Stephanie, and she had an older sister who was 15 or 16, and her and I were probably, like, 13, yeah. And she told me about it, and I remember we would listen to it, but yeah, it's kind of like someone just didn't get up to change the CD or something, and it like, like you said, doing your homework. And so you're like, Okay, well, let me finish this problem, and then I'll, like, repeat or do something, and it will come on, yeah. And then you tell your friend, and then they listen, and it comes on. So again, it's not like, you can just go on like Instagram, and people are right. Let me show you. Hey guys, let me show you the secret song at the end of this. It was literally, like, your friends telling you to listen to it. Yeah, it's such a good song. It's really good. I mean, it's so creepy. It's very stalker song. But, oh, stalker. But I loved it. It was still really good song. It's, it's like, eerie is the perfect, perfect word. So that was our little memory adventure back into Jagged Little Pill. I love album, and now I hope we made all of you want to go and re listen to these songs. Sing them very loud, yeah, so we can hear you. Yes. Yes. That was really great. Thank you for that. I feel like you touched on the things I maybe kind of knew, but more in depth, and then I learned some things too, although you didn't tell me who you ought to know is about. So I know, but she's teasing. Have you ever seen the curb your enthusiasm that she's on? No, but love that show he probably has. Okay, so Troy, if you're listening, I want to know if you've if you've seen this, or any listeners let us know. So it's like he's hosting a benefit Larry David and Alanis is going to come and sing, oh nice at his house. And for some reason, she tells him who it's about. And I can't remember why, maybe Troy would remember or I need to re watch it, but he's like, not allowed to, like, tell anyone. Well, this whole this show is so ridiculous, by the way, it is. So there's this whole like, terrorism scare in LA like, right? When this benefits supposed to happen, and somehow Larry David learns about that he's not supposed to tell anyone. But of course, he, like, accidentally bumbling tells people, because no one's supposed to panic. Blah, blah, blah. So he that might have been it, he tells her. And so she's like, well, since the world might end, I'm gonna tell you this. Well, the world doesn't end. And then he tells the whole room who it is, but like, on the show, you don't, right, hear it? And she's like, pissed. Oh, that's totally and it's like, actually, her, you know, like guest starring. What a great and it's just so funny. Oh no, I can't, you know, like the back and forth, like you Well, it might be, but it might be several people, I don't know. I'll never say Dada, dad. And he's like, Well, we're all gonna be annihilated by by terrorism tomorrow. And then she, like, tell it anyway. That's so very funny. I love it. Yeah, that like, if the world was ending, would she tell us? Right? I don't know. I swear. I think it's like a list of people, it's got, I swear, even at that age, because she seems, and I don't mean this in a bad way, she seems to have had experience, yeah, several boyfriends at that time. So they could be, yeah, well, I mean, Alanis, if you want to tell us, tell Katie. Don't tell me, because I suck at Secrets. So if you're out there listening, you can let Katie know. She's real good with it, but I have a big mouth. Be good with it. I am pretty good with it. I won't tell anyone except Danny, oops. I know Yes, but then that's bad. So yeah, anyways, okay. Well, thank you all for joining us today on generation in between. Thank you for going down the Jagged Little Pill nostalgia trail. Um, if you liked what you heard, please share us with all your peoples of all generations. Give us a like, give us a follow, and don't forget, you can join Patreon, where you get our little after shows. Yes, and we have a little taste of some of our bonus episodes in our normal feed, so you can see the kind of things that you might be missing out on. Yeah, listen to those for sure, and definitely tune in for part two, Jagged Little Pill music, yes, get ready. We'll see you next time. Guys, bye. You.